Re: Wine?

[Guest guest]

On common sense, I would say that wine is one of the most traditional and common

fermented beverages; it is drunk by many healthy people; it is in general said

even by scientific studies (but I couldn't say which) to be healthful in small

amounts (especially red wine). But I don't know more (I was also asking myself

about that).

ciao Valeria

Joanne Pollack <jopollack2001@...> wrote:

Hi

What is the NT view on drinking wine? I would have

thought it was a no-no, considering the intoxicating

effect it has on the body.

However, I do notice when I have 1 glass (but no more)

my bloating is reduced a little the next day. Too much

and the bloating increases. I just wondered what

could explain this effect, and is it as positive as it

appears?

Jo

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[Guest guest]

>However, I do notice when I have 1 glass (but no more)

>my bloating is reduced a little the next day. Too much

>and the bloating increases. I just wondered what

>could explain this effect, and is it as positive as it

>appears?

>

>Jo

Wine is traditionally considered really good for

the digestion. The Greeks, Italians, Spanish, and French

would not consider eating dinner without the

accompanying wine! It has been studied lately because

those cultures also happen to have fewer health problems

than ours, which some scientists are attributing to

the wine (and esp. that it is eaten with meals).

Now, my own observations is this: those countries

are also the first wheat-eating countries, and they

eat bread with their meals. Now when I eat bread

I get horribly bloated (and have other problems)

and the only thing that seems to mitigate it is

wine, esp. red wine.

I have no hard data on this

whatsoever, but the part of wheat that is problematic

is the gliadin, which is a lectin, and lectins are

disabled by certain sugars, and maybe there is

a sugar in wine that binds to that lectin? Gliadin is

problematic for everyone in large amounts (even

if a person isn't allergic to it) and I suspect that

the combination of wine, bread, and olive oil

TOGETHER makes all three work better than

any would alone. (Olive oil coats the bread starch,

so it digests slower too).

There have also been some studies, I think, about

alcohol and fat digestion. Fats are absorbed

better in the presence of alcohol.

Anyway, there is zero evidence that moderate

amounts of wine with a meal hurt anything ...

to the contrary, folks who indulge with meals

have been shown to have less heart disease

and other problems. Consumption over a

certain amount (I think it is a third of a bottle

for a woman) can cause liver problems.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

uh oh. I better cut back!!! One glass a day should be good, though!

*******

Consumption over a

certain amount (I think it is a third of a bottle

for a woman) can cause liver problems.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:14:24 +0100 (BST)

Joanne Pollack <jopollack2001@...> wrote:

>Hi

>

>What is the NT view on drinking wine? I would have

>thought it was a no-no, considering the intoxicating

>effect it has on the body.

LOL! I sure hope not. Wine is a very traditional fermented food.

aka the wino

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 08:54:26 -0700

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>Anyway, there is zero evidence that moderate

>amounts of wine with a meal hurt anything ...

>to the contrary, folks who indulge with meals

>have been shown to have less heart disease

>and other problems. Consumption over a

>certain amount (I think it is a third of a bottle

>for a woman) can cause liver problems.

>

>-- Heidi

I think wine or alcohol in general will potentially cause liver problems

only if you do not have enough saturated fat in your diet.

aka the wino

[Guest guest]

>I think wine or alcohol in general will potentially cause liver problems

>only if you do not have enough saturated fat in your diet.

>

> aka the wino

Oh cool, so I can up the wine AND the butter ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Vino, what's all the fuss about vino?

Just make your own. start with the basics and then add plum, apricot,

apple, peach, pear, whatever.

Some of the best wine I ever had was in Germany, its call, (drum roll)

first wine. This wine has only had short time to ferment, you can get a

glass and you'll find the yeast at the bottom. Tastes great with onion

cake.

Stop fussing over wine, almost all wine in the US sucks, so make your

own.

r

slethnobotanist@... wrote:

>On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:14:24 +0100 (BST)

>Joanne Pollack <jopollack2001@...> wrote:

>

>>Hi

>>

>>What is the NT view on drinking wine? I would have

>>thought it was a no-no, considering the intoxicating

>>effect it has on the body.

>

>LOL! I sure hope not. Wine is a very traditional fermented food.

>

> aka the wino

---------------------------------------------

Yound Living Essential Oils and more.

http://my.youngliving.com/starwulf/

----

Kill the Ego, Lose your Mind, Use your

Brain!

-richard aka: StarWulf & k(no)w one

http://www.geocities.com/i_starwulf/index.htm

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 00:35:09 -0700

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>

>>I think wine or alcohol in general will potentially cause liver problems

>>only if you do not have enough saturated fat in your diet.

>>

>> aka the wino

>

>Oh cool, so I can up the wine AND the butter ...

>

>-- Heidi

Yup, looks that way.

Alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver cannot occur unless there are

unsaturated oils in the diet. [Nanji and French, Life Sciences. 44,

1989.]

I believe it is the ratio of saturated fat to unsaturated fat that is

the issue and specifically in the study linoleic acid seems to be the

culprit

http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/efatox.rtf

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/284/1/406

http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/127/5/912S

The People vs. Rush Limbaugh

http://tinyurl.com/qon2

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 13:34:02 -0600 (MDT)

G Boettner <boettner@...> wrote:

>Vino, what's all the fuss about vino?

>Just make your own. start with the basics and then add plum, apricot,

>apple, peach, pear, whatever.

>Some of the best wine I ever had was in Germany, its call, (drum roll)

>first wine. This wine has only had short time to ferment, you can get a

>glass and you'll find the yeast at the bottom. Tastes great with onion

>cake.

>Stop fussing over wine, almost all wine in the US sucks, so make your

>own.

>r

Fuss? LOL! No more fussy than some of us get about butter, cheese, honey,

milk, and a host of other NT foodstuffs.

Some of us are unwilling or unable to make certain things, so we search

out people who are fussy and buy from them.

The People vs. Rush Limbaugh

http://tinyurl.com/qon2

[Guest guest]

>Alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver cannot occur unless there are

>unsaturated oils in the diet. [Nanji and French, Life Sciences. 44,

>1989.]

>

>I believe it is the ratio of saturated fat to unsaturated fat that is

>the issue and specifically in the study linoleic acid seems to be the

>culprit

Wow, that really is interesting. Folks that are gluten allergic

get cirrhosis too (whether or not they drink) -- I wonder if

it all has to do with fat metabolism.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>I believe it is the ratio of saturated fat to unsaturated fat that is

>the issue and specifically in the study linoleic acid seems to be the

>culprit

----->i checked out all three links. i believe linoleic acid was mentioned

as a culprit in the third study, but the authors mentioned that the

connection has not been confirmed by other studies, fwiw.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hey Turk and all my ZAP friends , Glad to hear you are still not smoking . I quit on my birthday last year 10/02/2009and have not touched one yet. I also cut down on my drinking (in which I had to). Drinking any alcahol is most definately not a stimulant but a depressive. The more u drink the more prone to lose inhibitions. I have a few glasses of wine a week and my doctor says it's ok, but still get the urge to smoke more when I am having that glass of wine. Well Hope everyone is doing OK my second aicd has two leads which made me stay over in the hospital for observation 1 night. I am now able to use the Latitude System that records and sends interagations directly through your phone . which of course cuts down on the visits to Palo Alto VA (200miles rt). I am so glad I can activate it in an emergency if I feel the need to have them look at whats going on anytime. I hope this is considered checking in.I

am.Sincerely, M. Murray Sr.SUPPORT OUR TROOPSvisit:http://www.skatstuff.coma work in progress

From: Gurhan Ozdemir <goturk1@...> Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 7:34:17 AMSubject: Re: wine?

Good to hear you're doing welll . I am getting my 3rd ICD on may 27th, which is ironically my 1st year anniversary of quitting smoking. This time I am getting Medtronic 3 lead. Anyone has any experience with that one?Kind regards,TURK

From: <shadow061 (DOT) com>@groups .comSent: Wed, May 12, 2010 10:07:22 AMSubject: wine?

Hi all am doing fine since my new ,second ICD now, My cardio doc always said a glas of wine would be ok but to limit it to one or two and no more. a couple of times a week. well i hardly ever drink anymore so guess i cant really say what is good for one or not, well all have to make our own decisions on that. Oh did want tomention that when i had my new CID put in and then found out that there is a kink in one of the leads, that has got me alittle concerned, but have been told everything is ok. I wonder. any thoughts on that?? take care and God Bless all. in Az

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bonnie. I am in the same boat. I am paced 80-90% due to dilated cardiomyopathy. I will be on my 3rd ICD. first two lasted 4-5 yrs. I hope 3rd one lasts longer.Kind regards,TURKFrom: Bonnie York <byork1992@...> Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 12:46:40 PMSubject: Re: wine?

My husband has a 3 lead Medtronic Concerto that was implanted in July, 2007. He does have at least one recalled lead, but so far everything has been working very well. He has not been shocked, but is being paced 90-95% of the time. He has CHF and dilated cardiomyopathy.

Good luck,

Bonnie

From: Gurhan Ozdemir <goturk1 (DOT) com>Subject: Re: wine?@groups .comDate: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 9:34 AM

Good to hear you're doing welll . I am getting my 3rd ICD on may 27th, which is ironically my 1st year anniversary of quitting smoking. This time I am getting Medtronic 3 lead. Anyone has any experience with that one?Kind regards,TURK

From: <shadow061 (DOT) com>@groups .comSent: Wed, May 12, 2010 10:07:22 AMSubject: wine?

Hi all am doing fine since my new ,second ICD now, My cardio doc always said a glas of wine would be ok but to limit it to one or two and no more. a couple of times a week. well i hardly ever drink anymore so guess i cant really say what is good for one or not, well all have to make our own decisions on that. Oh did want tomention that when i had my new CID put in and then found out that there is a kink in one of the leads, that has got me alittle concerned, but have been told everything is ok. I wonder. any thoughts on that?? take care and God Bless all. in Az

[Guest guest]

Thanks Matt. Glad to hear you're doing well as well. Anyone that quits and not touching sigs especially when drinking impresses me. Keep it up bud. Nice to hear from you.TURKFrom: matthew murray <mmu10021952@...> Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 1:46:21 PMSubject: Re: wine?

Hey Turk and all my ZAP friends , Glad to hear you are still not smoking . I quit on my birthday last year 10/02/2009and have not touched one yet. I also cut down on my drinking (in which I had to). Drinking any alcahol is most definately not a stimulant but a depressive. The more u drink the more prone to lose inhibitions. I have a few glasses of wine a week and my doctor says it's ok, but still get the urge to smoke more when I am having that glass of wine. Well Hope everyone is doing OK my second aicd has two leads which made me stay over in the hospital for observation 1 night. I am now able to use the Latitude System that records and sends interagations directly through your phone . which of course cuts down on the visits to Palo Alto VA (200miles rt). I am so glad I can activate it in an emergency if I feel the need to have them look at whats going on anytime. I hope this is considered checking in.I

am.Sincerely, M. Murray Sr.SUPPORT OUR TROOPSvisit:http:/ /www.skatstuff. coma work in progress

From: Gurhan Ozdemir <goturk1 (DOT) com>@groups .comSent: Wed, May 12, 2010 7:34:17 AMSubject: Re: wine?

Good to hear you're doing welll . I am getting my 3rd ICD on may 27th, which is ironically my 1st year anniversary of quitting smoking. This time I am getting Medtronic 3 lead. Anyone has any experience with that one?Kind regards,TURK

From: <shadow061 (DOT) com>@groups .comSent: Wed, May 12, 2010 10:07:22 AMSubject: wine?

Hi all am doing fine since my new ,second ICD now, My cardio doc always said a glas of wine would be ok but to limit it to one or two and no more. a couple of times a week. well i hardly ever drink anymore so guess i cant really say what is good for one or not, well all have to make our own decisions on that. Oh did want tomention that when i had my new CID put in and then found out that there is a kink in one of the leads, that has got me alittle concerned, but have been told everything is ok. I wonder. any thoughts on that?? take care and God Bless all. in Az

[Guest guest]

Oops, sorry for the mistake. Yes, alcohol is a CNS depressant. I should have known that. The strange thing is that when I wrote that reply, I was thinking "coffee." But coffee has no alcohol. Caffeine is a stimulant and triggered arrhythmias so I had to quit drinking coffee. I don't drink alcohol so I wouldn't know the effects on the heart, but I have read numerous medical journals that come in the mail and most of the studies talk about the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption on the cardiovascular system.# # #Alcohol, although toxic and damaging if consumed in excess, has been linked to several surprising health benefits, particularly in relation to cardiovascular health. The World Health Organization (WHO) asserts that a relationship between moderate alcohol consumption and reduced death rates from heart disease can no longer be doubted. Red wine is particularly favorable as the type of alcohol imbibed because it

contains polyphenol antioxidants. Polyphenol antioxidants are instrumental in combating oxidative stress, which is linked to cardiovascular disease. Non-alcoholic sources of polyphenol antioxidants include berries, apples, grapes, celery, broccoli, onion, honey, chocolate, green tea, and olive oil. Red wine has a relatively high concentration of these antioxidants in comparison to these alternative sources.In one study, the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption on cardiovascular health exceed all other factors except the cessation of smoking. Alcohol is said to be hormetic, which describes a favorable

biological response to low level exposure of toxins rather than the complete absence of toxins. In moderation, alcohol is linked to better cholesterol levels, decreased blood clotting, reduced artery spasms from stress, increased coronary blood flow, and increased insulin sensitivity. Moderate drinking is also said to reduce the risk of angina pectoris, which is chest pain due to a lack of blood and oxygen in the heart muscle. People who have a heart attack are more likely to survive it if they are moderate drinkers, rather than abstainers or heavy drinkers. Decreased risk of stroke is also a benefit of drinking in moderation.Not all alcohol consumption is positive for cardiac health. Large quantity consumption of alcohol is linked to alcoholic cardiomyopathy, which is the weakening of the heart muscle, commonly known as "holiday heart syndrome." This deterioration of muscle can eventually lead to an arrhythmia, a disruption of electrical activity in the heart, resulting in an irregular heartbeat. Heavy drinkers may also become anemic or develop thrombocytopenia, few platelets in the blood, evidenced by increased bruising and nosebleeds.The relationship of alcohol consumption in relation to total

mortality is a U-shaped pattern, where moderate consumers have a reduced death rate in comparison to both abstainers and heavy drinkers. In summary, alcohol's mechanisms of benefits are related to its ability to improve blood lipid profile, decrease blood clotting, increase coronary heart flow, reduce blood pressure, reduce blood insulin, and increase estrogen levels.(Info by ph Devine)> > >> >> > Oh, I should have known it was a stimulant.> >> > Wine is NOT a stimulant. It's a depressive. Nevertheless, some people > apparently experience troubles with VT, PVCs and the like when they > drink. My own theory is that it's a blood sugar issue. But alcohol is > NOT a stimulant.> > Lynn S.> Get a new e-mail account with Hotmail - Free. Sign-up now.

[Guest guest]

TURK,

Mark has dilated cardiomyopathy, too. His heart has shrunk over two centimeters in those three years, but we don't know if it's from the medicine or ICD.

Take care,

Bonnie

From: Gurhan Ozdemir <goturk1 (DOT) com>Subject: Re: wine?@groups .comDate: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 9:34 AM

Good to hear you're doing welll . I am getting my 3rd ICD on may 27th, which is ironically my 1st year anniversary of quitting smoking. This time I am getting Medtronic 3 lead. Anyone has any experience with that one?Kind regards,TURK

From: <shadow061 (DOT) com>@groups .comSent: Wed, May 12, 2010 10:07:22 AMSubject: wine?

Hi all am doing fine since my new ,second ICD now, My cardio doc always said a glas of wine would be ok but to limit it to one or two and no more. a couple of times a week. well i hardly ever drink anymore so guess i cant really say what is good for one or not, well all have to make our own decisions on that. Oh did want tomention that when i had my new CID put in and then found out that there is a kink in one of the leads, that has got me alittle concerned, but have been told everything is ok. I wonder. any thoughts on that?? take care and God Bless all. in Az