Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 apologies for this scatological post, but which are preferred? i've read conflicting opinions. the pro-floaters say that undigested food particles make stool sink (as well as stink), while the pro- sinkers say that undigested fat makes stool float. i'm leaning towards the pro-float stance as diarrhea doesn't float.... but could they both be right? allene, who doesn't normally stare at her stool (i swear!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 >apologies for this scatological post, but which are preferred? > >i've read conflicting opinions. the pro-floaters say that undigested >food particles make stool sink (as well as stink), while the pro- >sinkers say that undigested fat makes stool float. > >i'm leaning towards the pro-float stance as diarrhea doesn't float.... > >but could they both be right? >allene, who doesn't normally stare at her stool (i swear!) They are both right. It's one of those complicated things you can't answer simply. Floaters often have just air in them. Or undigested fat -- the bile you secrete may or may not get reabsorbed, depending on if you have bad absorption (bad) or eat fiber that binds to fats (good or bad depending on your philosophy). Undigested food is often fats, but maybe there are some that cause sinkers. Usually in my experience sinkers mean very well digested food or a low-fat diet or slow digestion (constipation). Dark stools can mean bad digestion (and even internal bleeding) and are often observed to be a bad sign in gluten-intolerant folks. But they can also mean you've been eating a lot of berries, esp. blueberries. Now STINKERS I think usually mean poorly digested food or bad bacterial mix. As for scatology ... did you see " The Last Emperor " ? They collected the Emperor's scat and a team of physicians examined it each morning. Best way to tell if a mammal is healthy ... you know you have REALLY gone South when you whip out your handy microscope and a slide ... -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > As for scatology ... did you see " The Last Emperor " ? They collected the > Emperor's scat and a team of physicians examined it each morning. > Best way to tell if a mammal is healthy ... you know you have REALLY > gone South when you whip out your handy microscope and a slide ... > > -- Heidi @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ it's reassuring to realize that even though i've started to eat insects, at least i don't study my stools! (of course, it's only a matter of time; once the seed of an idea is planted, eventually it will grow!) mike parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Once you have studied them will you eat them? if so will it be cooked or raw? LOL Amy Re: floaters vs sinkers @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > As for scatology ... did you see " The Last Emperor " ? They collected the > Emperor's scat and a team of physicians examined it each morning. > Best way to tell if a mammal is healthy ... you know you have REALLY > gone South when you whip out your handy microscope and a slide ... > > -- Heidi @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ it's reassuring to realize that even though i've started to eat insects, at least i don't study my stools! (of course, it's only a matter of time; once the seed of an idea is planted, eventually it will grow!) mike parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 So if you were completely " healthy " , or at least eating everything you should, what would they look like? What response should one have if they have an " off " day? How can you use your stool to gague how your body is reacting to what you are eating? Molly > apologies for this scatological post, but which are preferred? > > i've read conflicting opinions. the pro-floaters say that undigested > food particles make stool sink (as well as stink), while the pro- > sinkers say that undigested fat makes stool float. > > i'm leaning towards the pro-float stance as diarrhea doesn't float.... > > but could they both be right? > allene, who doesn't normally stare at her stool (i swear!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 I'd like to know that too. Mostly what I've read is that they should be long smooth fat bananas, fully digested, walnut brown. They shouldn't soil your anus. They should float and slowly sink. I've probably experienced this once in my life, straight after my last liver flush. Boy it felt good! Most of my life, my stools have floated. I always thought this was normal. Then when I started liver flushing, they would always sink for a week after the flush and then start floating again. I read that floating means that you're not digesting fats properly. This fits with my health problems (dry skin, hormone imbalance, etc). I've been working on my digestion in the last few months and they've started sinking. At first sporadically ie. one day float, the next day sink. Now they almost consistently sink. But lately another problem has developed, where they used to be lumpy but at least digested, now they are often undigested and almost seem fermented - lots of little air bubbles coming out of them! (so much for working on my digestion) Sorry for all the graphic details but one can get a bit obsessive about one's stools! The only study I ever see quoted about bowel movements in traditional societies is that one mentioned on WAPF site about the African tribe (ask doctor/constipation). They had BMs average 3 times a day. Anyone know of any other studies? All the bowel cleansing/natural therapy stuff says ideally 2 ~ 4 times a day: once after you get up, and once after each meal with a 24 hour transit time (ie. you shit yesterday's breakfast after eating today's breakfast). Maybe this is an unattainable goal. So, let's do a poll. How often do your bowels move? Do they sink or float? What do they look like? Smell? ;-) > So if you were completely " healthy " , or at least eating everything > you should, what would they look like? What response should one > have if they have an " off " day? How can you use your stool to gague > how your body is reacting to what you are eating? > > Molly > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 >So if you were completely " healthy " , or at least eating everything >you should, what would they look like? What response should one >have if they have an " off " day? How can you use your stool to gague >how your body is reacting to what you are eating? > >Molly I'm not sure you can judge that easily. If you are completely " healthy " and eat more fat than you need or can digest, you'd have a floater. But low-fat diets aren't good for you either, and they would produce sinkers. Eating something like cabbage typically causes gas, but it isn't really a bad thing. If you DO have digestion issues, you'll probably learn to recognize your own pattern though. I just don't think there is a universal one-size-fits-all rule. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 >But lately another problem has developed, where they used to be >lumpy but at least digested, now they are often undigested and >almost seem fermented - lots of little air bubbles coming out of >them! (so much for working on my digestion) Are you eating grains? Floating definitely is a sign of fat in the stool ... but it is also the case that just eating a lot of fat will do that, and some fibers (which bind to fat and keep it from being digested, also bile may not be re-absorbed). But when they start getting frothy it is often a sign of grain intolerance, esp. if they seem bulky. That you get better eating a special diet ('liver flush') can be a sign too. This is kind of technical, but it lists some of the other symptoms. Dry skin and itchy skin are common problems, as is an eczema-like rash. http://www.aafp.org/afp/980301ap/pruessn.html Malabsorption. The varied signs and symptoms of malabsorption may be caused by celiac disease or many other diseases. Mild malabsorption may be asymptomatic. With its gradual onset, the classic manifestations of flatulence and bulky, greasy and foulsmelling stools may not be recognized by the patient as signs of celiac disease. Malabsorption should be suspected in any patient with weight loss and diarrhea, and the signs and symptoms of specific vitamin or nutritional deficiencies. The latter include visual disturbances, neuropathy, anemia, osteopenic bone disease, tetany, hemorrhagic diathesis or infertility. You can play around with your diet -- the " meat and vegie " diet (no sauces, no packaged condiments) is an easy way to check for the major allergens (wheat, milk, eggs, soy). -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 <heidis@t...> wrote: > Are you eating grains? ====>Yes. I usually have porridge in the mornings of ground millet/oats that I soak overnight in whey/warm water. To this I add butter, coconut cream, kefir, honey, ground nuts and other bits and pieces. In addition I probably have brown rice for either lunch or dinner. > Floating definitely is a sign of fatin the stool ... but it is also the case that just eating a lot > of fat will do that, and some fibers (which bind to fat > and keep it from being digested, also bile may not be > re-absorbed). But when they start getting frothy it is > often a sign of grain intolerance, esp. if they seem bulky. ===> didn't think of that. maybe I should give up grains for a while. But then it's a matter of knowing what to eat for brekky. What do others eat? eggs? > That you get better eating a special diet ('liver flush') > can be a sign too. ====> not sure what you mean by this Heidi. Can you explain a little further? The liver flush just involves half a day fasting then drinking epsom salts followed by 1/2 cup olive oil mixed with 3/4 cup grapefruit juice to flush out congested/solidified bile in the liver (and hopefully one day my calcified gallstones). How is this eating a special diet? I just figured the liver was clearer so it's able to work better at breaking down fats. > > This is kind of technical, but it lists some of the > other symptoms. Dry skin and itchy skin are common > problems, as is an eczema-like rash. ==> Hmmm, itchy skin is my husband's problem. He's driving me mad scratching in the night. It always starts at 3am. He's been told before that he's gluten intolerant. Now I realise I have to persuade him to give up grains for a while. But how do you tell a Japanese that he can't eat rice? Getting him to cut down on noodles was hard enough. (We have organic brown rice that I soak in whey/water.) Maybe he should give up grains totally to see if it makes a difference? I tend towards dry skin. Liver flushing has helped HEAPS with this - again I just thought it was increased flow of bile. > http://www.aafp.org/afp/980301ap/pruessn.html > > Malabsorption. The varied signs and symptoms of > malabsorption may be caused by celiac disease or many other diseases. Mild malabsorption may be > asymptomatic. With its gradual onset, the classic manifestations of flatulence and bulky, greasy and foulsmelling > stools may not be recognized by the patient as signs of celiac disease. Malabsorption should be > suspected in any patient with weight loss and diarrhea, and the signs and symptoms of specific vitamin or > nutritional deficiencies. The latter include visual disturbances, neuropathy, anemia, osteopenic bone > disease, tetany, hemorrhagic diathesis or infertility. ===> OK, a lot of these signs I can see in my husband, not so much in me except I am very thin and have low iron/zinc and pretty sure I have nutritional deficiencies and NT diet doesn't SEEM to be making much difference so the malabsorption thing I'm pretty sure of. > > You can play around with your diet -- the " meat and vegie " > diet (no sauces, no packaged condiments) is an easy way > to check for the major allergens (wheat, milk, eggs, soy). ==> I'll give it a go. So do I have to eat meat for breakfast? Erk. I'd love some tips on what to eat. Thanks very much. It frustrates me that not one practitioner I've been to has ever really looked at my diet/stools. I didn't go back to the last one because he recommended the blood type diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 >===> didn't think of that. maybe I should give up grains for a >while. But then it's a matter of knowing what to eat for brekky. >What do others eat? eggs? Right now I'm not doing brekky (WD!). But my favorite was hash browns, which I now have for dinner! If you are grain intolerant, it is likely only to wheat/rye/barley (oats are ok if from a wheat-free source). You can get wheat-free porridge easily, and I make pancakes with sorghum and waffles too. The nice thing about discovering gluten intolerance is that it is really easy to work around. >> That you get better eating a special diet ('liver flush') >> can be a sign too. > >====> not sure what you mean by this Heidi. Can you explain a little >further? The liver flush just involves half a day fasting then >drinking epsom salts followed by 1/2 cup olive oil mixed with 3/4 >cup grapefruit juice to flush out congested/solidified bile in the >liver (and hopefully one day my calcified gallstones). How is this >eating a special diet? I just figured the liver was clearer so it's >able to work better at breaking down fats. Well, you are fasting half a day, first off, which gives your intestines a chance to heal. I don't know what you ate the second half of the day, but after a half cup of olive oil ... you'd be eating less, surely? Probably depends on the flush, I'd assumed it was multiple days. I first figured my diet was a problem when I was on a very restricted diet and suddenly my BM's normalized (and a lot of other stuff too). It was hard to pin down which food was the problem though. Statistically for most people it is wheat, then dairy, then corn, soy, and eggs. The dairy part often goes away though, if wheat is eliminated. ==> Hmmm, itchy skin is my husband's problem. He's driving me mad >scratching in the night. It always starts at 3am. He's been told >before that he's gluten intolerant. Now I realise I have to persuade >him to give up grains for a while. But how do you tell a Japanese >that he can't eat rice? Getting him to cut down on noodles was hard >enough. (We have organic brown rice that I soak in whey/water.) >Maybe he should give up grains totally to see if it makes a >difference? I tend towards dry skin. Liver flushing has helped >HEAPS with this - again I just thought it was increased flow of bile. He doesn't have to give up rice, most likely -- just check if it uses wheat starch as a flow agent. Give up ALL wheat noodles ... Tinkyada rice noodles are REALLY good, and there are good other rice noodles too. Pure buckwheat noodles are ok. If he is truly gluten intolerant he needs NO gluten EVER -- people who continue to eat it get loads of health problems and have a high death rate (from heart disease and cancer and such like -- it kills your immune system, itching is the least of it). I eat rice crackers and rice noodles, and some brands of rice. It's hard on raw rice because the folks at the factories seem to not speak English much, and they are using " vegetable starch " as a flow agent and won't specify where the starch comes from. > ===> OK, a lot of these signs I can see in my husband, not so much >in me except I am very thin and have low iron/zinc and pretty sure I >have nutritional deficiencies and NT diet doesn't SEEM to be making >much difference so the malabsorption thing I'm pretty sure of. Thin and low iron are classic too. If you look at the article there are loads of other symptoms. If you can swing it, you should both get a blood test which would make life easier. If you have high levels of IgA antigliadin in your blood, then you have leaky gut, and probably major malabsorption issues. The nice thing is, you can get the same test in 6 months to see how you are healing. >==> I'll give it a go. So do I have to eat meat for breakfast? >Erk. I'd love some tips on what to eat. Nah ... Bob's Red Mill has gluten-free hot cereal if that is what you like, Amy's has gluten-free waffles. McCann's oatmeal is seemingly ok too. I still like hash browns the best. What do you LIKE to have for breakfast? You can get gluten-free bread at most markets, and I make mine for the family. Most corn tortillas are ok too, if you are into Mexican (Huevos Rancheros, perhaps?). To check for ALL grains, meat/vegie does the trick, and that's what we did. But most folks only react to wheat/rye/barley or corn, so checking for those (not necessarily at the same time) is easier. >Thanks very much. It frustrates me that not one practitioner I've >been to has ever really looked at my diet/stools. I didn't go back >to the last one because he recommended the blood type diet. For gluten intolerance, the average diagnosis takes 15 YEARS and many folks are diagnosed after they are on an IV drip and can't eat anything. Really pathetic stories I hear. Which is really silly, because it's and easy situation to treat and rather fatal if untreated, and the blood test costs something like $15. You practically have to demand the blood test though, or get it done privately, because the doctors just don't believe in it (the same ones that do a CAT scan routinely). So a lot of people just change their diet and get well. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 > > Right now I'm not doing brekky (WD!). But my favorite was hash browns, > which I now have for dinner! If you are grain intolerant, > it is likely only to wheat/rye/barley (oats are ok if from a wheat- free > source). You can get wheat-free porridge easily, and I make pancakes > with sorghum and waffles too. The nice thing about discovering > gluten intolerance is that it is really easy to work around. *** Well then it seems like I'm pretty much on this diet. My morning porridge is millet/oats both whole and certified organic so I can't imagine they'd contain flow agents (I'm in Australia btw). I do occasionally use Spelt flour/grains, though only rarely now. > > Well, you are fasting half a day, first off, which gives your intestines a > chance to heal. I don't know what you ate the second half of the day, but after > a half cup of olive oil ... you'd be eating less, surely? Probably depends on the > flush, I'd assumed it was multiple days. ***OK, but I've done longer fasts before and not had the same effect. It's only ever been after liver flushing that they would start sinking. But now they sink most of the time regardless of liver flushing so obviously something's changed. If I think back, I guess I've gone more strictly off grains/breads ie. only having my millet/oat porridge and brown rice. So maybe my gut's healing. But why then all the fermented undigested fibre stuff in my BMs lately? Used to be lumpy and dark but digested. On the day of the flush, I only have light foods (usually just fruit and veg, no fat) I stop eating at 2pm. Have epsom salts at 6pm and 8pm, drink the oil/grapefruit juice mixture at 10pm. Next morning, more epsom salts. Then I usually have fruit by about 11am and after that only light foods (fruit/veg) for the rest of the day. So I guess that holds with your suggestion of it giving my gut time to heal as that's two days on light foods. > > I first figured my diet was a problem when I was on a very restricted diet > and suddenly my BM's normalized (and a lot of other stuff too). It was hard > to pin down which food was the problem though. Statistically for > most people it is wheat, then dairy, then corn, soy, and eggs. The dairy > part often goes away though, if wheat is eliminated. ***When you say they normalised, can you be more specific? There seems to be so many conflicting views on what's normal. > > He doesn't have to give up rice, most likely -- just check if it uses wheat > starch as a flow agent. Give up ALL wheat noodles ... Tinkyada rice noodles > are REALLY good, and there are good other rice noodles too. Pure buckwheat > noodles are ok. If he is truly gluten intolerant he needs NO gluten EVER -- > people who continue to eat it get loads of health problems and have > a high death rate (from heart disease and cancer and such like -- it kills > your immune system, itching is the least of it). ***Well I'll tell him, he's pretty good but does lapse from time to time and sneaks out for Ramen. Now he's seeing the black bags under my eyes from being kept awake with his scratching all night, I think he's going to lapse less. It's that or separate beds! > > I eat rice crackers and rice noodles, and some brands of rice. It's > hard on raw rice because the folks at the factories seem to not > speak English much, and they are using " vegetable starch " as > a flow agent and won't specify where the starch comes from. ****Never heard of flow agents in rice before. I guess it's the same in Australia. But again, I'm assuming it won't be the case with certified organic unrefined brown rice. I'll have to check with my supplier though. > > >> > Thin and low iron are classic too. If you look at the article there > are loads of other symptoms. If you can swing it, you should > both get a blood test which would make life easier. If you have > high levels of IgA antigliadin in your blood, then you have leaky gut, and > probably major malabsorption issues. The nice thing is, you can > get the same test in 6 months to see how you are healing. ******Right, test sounds like a good idea. I'll check it out. > > I still like hash browns the best. What do you LIKE to have for > breakfast? You can get gluten-free bread at most markets, and > I make mine for the family. Most corn tortillas are ok too, if you > are into Mexican (Huevos Rancheros, perhaps?). hash browns sounds good. Never tried them but will give them a go. Had scrambled eggs (a la NT with raw cream and extra egg yolk), sauteed mushies and cherry tomatoes this morning. Yummy but I think I'd OD if I had it every day. Might try to take hubby off the porridge though and see how he does. Tonight, he's been ordered to have a not too hot bath with epsom salts (we're going to experiment with different things in the bath each night) and then smother himself with coconut oil before he comes to bed. He's got that Japanese male paranoia thing about stomach chill so he tends to wear undershirt and PJs to bed even in Summer, then he gets hot and sweats and that makes him itchy too. Tonight step 1 is he's only allowed to wear his undershirt. (I'll have him in the nuddy before too long ;-) for health reasons of course) > To check for ALL grains, meat/vegie does the trick, and that's > what we did. But most folks only react to wheat/rye/barley or corn, > so checking for those (not necessarily at the same time) is easier. Well I guess that is the ultimate test but how long would you have to be grain free to know? For example, coming off all grains, I wonder how long it would take for his skin condition to get better? Thanks Heidi, Filippa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 --- filikara <filippa91@...> wrote: > > ===> didn't think of that. maybe I should give up > grains for a > while. But then it's a matter of knowing what to > eat for brekky. > What do others eat? eggs? > Currently, I'm eating 2 raw eg yolks stirred into goats milk kefir, sweetened with stevia. > > You can play around with your diet -- the " meat > and vegie " > > diet (no sauces, no packaged condiments) is an > easy way > > to check for the major allergens (wheat, milk, > eggs, soy). > > ==> I'll give it a go. So do I have to eat meat for > breakfast? > Erk. I'd love some tips on what to eat. > When I did the elimination diet, before I started eating raw eggs and kefir, I had 2 boiled eggs with lightly cooked veggies for brekkie (carrots, beans, babay sweetcorn, asparagus). I got myself into a routine where I would cook up very large joints of meat in the evening for dinner, then eat the left overs for 2-3 days for lunch and occasionally breakfast. I ate raw salad veggies with leftovers for my lunch - using olive oil, lemon juice, salt and pepper for dressing. It's difficult to do long term, but actually not half as difficult as I thought just to do for a few weeks. Jo ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 >OK, but I've done longer fasts before and not had the same >effect. It's only ever been after liver flushing that they would >start sinking. But now they sink most of the time regardless of >liver flushing so obviously something's changed. If I think back, I >guess I've gone more strictly off grains/breads ie. only having my >millet/oat porridge and brown rice. So maybe my gut's healing. But >why then all the fermented undigested fibre stuff in my BMs lately? >Used to be lumpy and dark but digested. Brown rice, oats, and porridge all contain stuff that humans can't digest. It's called " fiber " . Or " fibre " , depending on the country. It isn't considered bad but it can glom onto fat, and thereby float. I have not found a good way to analyze my own diet except for putting it all into the computer. >On the day of the flush, I only have light foods (usually just fruit >and veg, no fat) I stop eating at 2pm. Have epsom salts at 6pm and >8pm, drink the oil/grapefruit juice mixture at 10pm. Next morning, >more epsom salts. Then I usually have fruit by about 11am and after >that only light foods (fruit/veg) for the rest of the day. So I >guess that holds with your suggestion of it giving my gut time to >heal as that's two days on light foods. I've been GF for over a year, but the WD seems to have healed things better. I think it is the " rest " -- just giving the gut a chance to regenerate likely helps a LOT. Fruits and veggies are practically " freebies " to the gut, not much work. Oils and fats seem to sometimes not be digested, but when they are not digested, they don't cause much problem either (just a bit of floating ...) Hee hee. True. I'm being judgmental here. OK, here is real specific (all you who don't want to know, I'm assuming, have tuned out by now). Before, I had 5-6 BIG BMs per day. The docs say over 200g is over average, and I was probably up to 600 and looked somthing like cow piles. Anyway, that dropped to 2 a day, small, compact, sometimes sinkers, sometimes not. > > >***Well I'll tell him, he's pretty good but does lapse from time to >time and sneaks out for Ramen. Now he's seeing the black bags under >my eyes from being kept awake with his scratching all night, I think >he's going to lapse less. It's that or separate beds! Oh, that Ramen! It is addictive. I don't have a substitute. Quick, buy him some Tinkyada and keep it handy. Once it is boiled and in the fridge, you can whip up some noodle dishes quickly. I keep a gallon of chicken stock handy so I can indulge my soup habit at will. > I eat rice crackers and rice noodles, and some brands of rice. It's >> hard on raw rice because the folks at the factories seem to not >> speak English much, and they are using " vegetable starch " as >> a flow agent and won't specify where the starch comes from. > >****Never heard of flow agents in rice before. I guess it's the >same in Australia. But again, I'm assuming it won't be the case >with certified organic unrefined brown rice. I'll have to check >with my supplier though. Wheat flour is considered " organic " and brown rice is worse the white, for some reason. The thing is, they used to use talc on rice and now they are trying to get away from it, so they are switching to starch. >******Right, test sounds like a good idea. I'll check it out. Might be easier in Oz than in the US. In Italy they test routinely. > >hash browns sounds good. Never tried them but will give them a go. Cook on low heat a LONG time. I put some coconut oil in the pan, then wash up the kitchen while they cook. Nice and crispy on each side, dosed in salt and Turmeric. >Had scrambled eggs (a la NT with raw cream and extra egg yolk), >sauteed mushies and cherry tomatoes this morning. Yummy but I think >I'd OD if I had it every day. Might try to take hubby off the >porridge though and see how he does. What sort of porridge is it? > Tonight, he's been ordered to >have a not too hot bath with epsom salts (we're going to experiment >with different things in the bath each night) and then smother >himself with coconut oil before he comes to bed. How about smother each other???? THAT sounds fun. BTW most of my itchies came from BEER which was why I switched to red wine. I truly believed our house was infested with a brand of invisible fleas that only came out late at night, by chance when I drank my nightly beer, and only attacked me. I switched to wine, and lo and behold the fleas fled. I also switched from rye crisp to rice crackers. > He's got that >Japanese male paranoia thing about stomach chill so he tends to wear >undershirt and PJs to bed even in Summer, then he gets hot and >sweats and that makes him itchy too. Tonight step 1 is he's only >allowed to wear his undershirt. (I'll have him in the nuddy before >too long ;-) for health reasons of course) Heh heh. Clothes are overrated in hot climates. Never heard of stomach chill though. In our climate " overall chill " is not paranoia! >> To check for ALL grains, meat/vegie does the trick, and that's >> what we did. But most folks only react to wheat/rye/barley or corn, >> so checking for those (not necessarily at the same time) is easier. > >Well I guess that is the ultimate test but how long would you have >to be grain free to know? For example, coming off all grains, I >wonder how long it would take for his skin condition to get better? Good question. My skin problems continued off and on for 6 months, but they were a LOT better after a week. The first two days though, I went into withdrawals and felt awful. I did not go off all grains, or all carbs (in the interest of the experiment!). Just off what is called the " gluten grains " -- wheat, rye, barley. Good luck! -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 <heidis@t...> wrote: > Brown rice, oats, and porridge all contain stuff that humans can't >digest. It's called " fiber " . Or " fibre " , depending on the country. >It isn't considered bad but it can glom onto fat, and thereby float. =====> so I guess what you're saying is that floating ain't necessarily bad? > I have not found a good way to analyze my own diet except for > putting it all into the computer. ====> you have a software program to analyse your diet? Do tell! > I had 5-6 BIG BMs per day. The docs say over 200g is over average, and I was probably up to > 600 and looked somthing like cow piles. Anyway, that dropped to 2 a day, small, compact, > sometimes sinkers, sometimes not. ======> Ok, so when I start fishing my turds out of the loo and weighing them, I know I'm really getting obsessed! Shitting into a colander to catch my gallstones during a liver flush is bad enough! Anyway, I'd rather cow pats than constipation LOL. Thanks for the info. > Oh, that Ramen! It is addictive. I don't have a substitute. Quick, buy him some > Tinkyada and keep it handy. Once it is boiled and in the fridge, you can > whip up some noodle dishes quickly. I keep a gallon of chicken stock handy > so I can indulge my soup habit at will. ===========> sounds good. I'll have to experiment with making homemade Ramen stock and rice noodles. Traditionally Ramen is boiled pig's bones and stuff so probably was a really healthy dish except for the gluten I guess. > Cook on low heat a LONG time. I put some coconut oil in the pan, then wash > up the kitchen while they cook. Nice and crispy on each side, dosed in salt > and Turmeric. ============> yum. I'll try them out on my mum when she comes to visit next week. > > Might try to take hubby off the > >porridge though and see how he does. > > What sort of porridge is it? ============> millet and oats so if no free flow agents then it should be alright, right? > How about smother each other???? THAT sounds fun. =======> yep, that's stage 3! Last night, he put on some fermented grain liquid (like kefir beer) and then coconut oil. He didn't itch nearly as much and I feel more sane today. So now he's going to alternate them and see which is more effective. BTW most of my > itchies came from BEER which was why I switched to red wine. I truly > believed our house was infested with a brand of invisible fleas that only came > out late at night, by chance when I drank my nightly beer, and only attacked me. > I switched to wine, and lo and behold the fleas fled. I also switched from rye crisp > to rice crackers. ===========> weird. well I have no idea where his itchies come from (maybe fleas that only eat Japanese at 3am!). I'm suspecting candida so we're both going to massively increase our kefir intake. > > He's got that > >Japanese male paranoia thing about stomach chill so he tends to wear > >undershirt and PJs to bed even in Summer, then he gets hot and > >sweats and that makes him itchy too. Tonight step 1 is he's only > >allowed to wear his undershirt. (I'll have him in the nuddy before > >too long ;-) for health reasons of course) > > Heh heh. Clothes are overrated in hot climates. Never heard of stomach > chill though. In our climate " overall chill " is not paranoia! ========> it's a thing amongst middle aged and older Japanese men where they get diarrhea if their abdomen gets chilled. He used to get this, I was sure it was psychosomatic. Come to think of it, this stopped when he majorly cut down gluten and did some bowel cleansing. A lot of older Japanese men wear stomach warmers all year round - like a muffler for your abdomen! > Good question. My skin problems continued off and on for 6 months, but they > were a LOT better after a week. The first two days though, I went into > withdrawals and felt awful. I did not go off all grains, or all carbs (in the > interest of the experiment!). Just off what is called the " gluten grains " -- wheat, > rye, barley. > > Good luck! > > -- Heidi Thanks Heidi! I appreciate you taking the time to answer all my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 >=====> so I guess what you're saying is that floating ain't >necessarily bad? << Right. No one thing is *necessarily* bad, but anything can be a symptom for YOU. You have to figure out your own " style " . > >====> you have a software program to analyse your diet? Do tell! I write software for a living ... complicated software. So of course I apply it to myself! But what I have is too weird for public consumption. If I get a grant to spend a year writing a good diet program! .... what I did was track food, and food reactions, and exercise, etc. Eventually it will store recipes too. It tracks calories, fat, etc. but not micronutrients. > ======> Ok, so when I start fishing my turds out of the loo and >weighing them, I know I'm really getting obsessed! Shitting into a >colander to catch my gallstones during a liver flush is bad enough! >Anyway, I'd rather cow pats than constipation LOL. Thanks for the >info. Yeah, I'm not about to start weighing either! Noticing patterns is useful though. >===========> sounds good. I'll have to experiment with making >homemade Ramen stock and rice noodles. Traditionally Ramen is >boiled pig's bones and stuff so probably was a really healthy dish >except for the gluten I guess. Right. Noodles really aren't bad from a glycemic standpoint either. Those clear yam noodles seem to keep you full for a long time too, and the Thai noodle bowls all use rice noodles. Soy sauce is a problem though -- fish sauce doesn't have gluten, but soy sauce does unless you get real Tamari. >============> millet and oats so if no free flow agents then it >should be alright, right? Millet is usually ok, but some people say they react to it (might be a different reaction, or it might be it was ground on the wheat grinders). Oats are usually NOT ok, when they are tested they contain wheat. Oat grains and wheat grains are the same size and the two plants grow together. McCannes Irish Oats seem to be ok for most people though --- they do work to keep the wheat out, and wheat isn't grown so much in Ireland. > > >===========> weird. well I have no idea where his itchies come from >(maybe fleas that only eat Japanese at 3am!). I'm suspecting >candida so we're both going to massively increase our kefir intake. The itches from gluten are related to leaky gut ... if a sensitive person eats gluten, the gut leaks and IgA gets into the blood. Which seems to act like histamine (the itches you get from other allergies come from IgE, another immunoglobulin). Beer has barley in it, and combined with the alcohol it REALLY makes me itch. Kefir beer doesn't though (I make it with fruit juice, though making kvass style with sorghum might be interesting). ========> it's a thing amongst middle aged and older Japanese men >where they get diarrhea if their abdomen gets chilled. He used to >get this, I was sure it was psychosomatic. Come to think of it, >this stopped when he majorly cut down gluten and did some bowel >cleansing. A lot of older Japanese men wear stomach warmers all >year round - like a muffler for your abdomen! Maybe it is because most of them lack the nice fat pad most Americans have. >Thanks Heidi! I appreciate you taking the time to answer all my >questions. You are welcome. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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