Guest guest Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Hey , why tip toe around the subject of ASHN? Just come on out and say what you really think of this group. Just kidding!!! I agree with all that you say but I nevertheless just rejoined ASHN after several patients begged me doggedly to join them. I am not sure how long I will last with them but letters such as yours don't help my already feeble resolve. Elliot, we have tough choice here. I certainly would understand if you give these guys the boot. Schneider DCPDX Dr. Elliot: I think that you are way too advanced, intelligent, holistic and experienced as a healer of human beings to be contracted with that organization. Why? Let's be real, ASHN views you (and all of us) as " mechanical-non-complicated-lowback-pain-mitigatng-spinal-manipulating-robot-technicians " . DCs are just a replaceable mindless commodity to them and so are the patients for that matter. If you contract with them and you want to help people in the most rational way possible, you will always be frustrated by their robotic machinations(and so will the patient). ASHN is the Mcs of chiropractic. Look, we DCs are not idiots, we understand there has to be a way to reasonably control costs, etc. but ASHNs approach of short-leash/micro-managed/fake-science-based-protocols is affront to any and all but the most naive/inexperienced chiros out there. Yet, DCs keep signing up with them?!?! " We have met the enemy, it is us " . On balance, ASHN has been a terribly destructive force upon our profession, eroding quality, narrowing-scope, limiting-authority, cheapening and dumbing -down the art and science of chiropractic. I was with them for about 60 days about 8ish years ago so I have first-hand experience. I joined out of a combo of : fear, ignorance and patients-begging-me like most DCs do. That 60 days was long enough to learn what a low-quality outfit they were, so I quit. I couldn't stand the goofy requirements and non-science-based protocols from the start, but what put me over the edge was when they refused to pay for care for 15 year old kid. I guess they had a policy of no chiro care for people under 17 at that time, not sure if they still do. My humble opinion. I guess I just don't like being treated as if I am a crook and/or mentally-disabled. If anyone ever invents a " chirobot " , ASHN will be the first to utilize it. ;-) Good luck. > > We've become increasingly frustrated with ASHN. They seem to tell us one thing about patient benefits but never live up to it and they have lots of extra forms. Anyone else share this frustration? We are getting close to dropping out. If you prefer you can contact me on or off the list. > Sincerly, > Elliott Mantell DC > -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 ,Well said! If NO DC would sign up with such groups, we'd all benefit together and our patients would benefit.Perhaps it's possible for the associations to make a suggestion for members that we not sign contracts that force us to do unreasonable amounts of paperwork because if we work at half or less of our regular "pay rate" for certain companies, then other companies and or our private pay patients are ultimately paying part of the cost of keeping our office open for the patients whose insurances require us to do inordinate amounts of paperwork for minuscule reimbursements. It truly seems to me that it is unethical to contract to give the same service to different companies for different rates. Perhaps it's time ALL the healthcare professions take a stand on this issue.JanetJanet L Rueger, DCCertified BodyTalk Practitioner149 Clear Creek Dr., # 105Ashland, OR, 97520bodytalk@... Dr. Elliot: I think that you are way too advanced, intelligent, holistic and experienced as a healer of human beings to be contracted with that organization. Why? Let's be real, ASHN views you (and all of us) as " mechanical-non-complicated-lowback-pain-mitigatng-spinal-manipulating-robot-technicians". DCs are just a replaceable mindless commodity to them and so are the patients for that matter. If you contract with them and you want to help people in the most rational way possible, you will always be frustrated by their robotic machinations(and so will the patient). ASHN is the Mcs of chiropractic. Look, we DCs are not idiots, we understand there has to be a way to reasonably control costs, etc. but ASHNs approach of short-leash/micro-managed/fake-science-based-protocols is affront to any and all but the most naive/inexperienced chiros out there. Yet, DCs keep signing up with them?!?! "We have met the enemy, it is us". On balance, ASHN has been a terribly destructive force upon our profession, eroding quality, narrowing-scope, limiting-authority, cheapening and dumbing -down the art and science of chiropractic. I was with them for about 60 days about 8ish years ago so I have first-hand experience. I joined out of a combo of : fear, ignorance and patients-begging-me like most DCs do. That 60 days was long enough to learn what a low-quality outfit they were, so I quit. I couldn't stand the goofy requirements and non-science-based protocols from the start, but what put me over the edge was when they refused to pay for care for 15 year old kid. I guess they had a policy of no chiro care for people under 17 at that time, not sure if they still do. My humble opinion. I guess I just don't like being treated as if I am a crook and/or mentally-disabled. If anyone ever invents a "chirobot", ASHN will be the first to utilize it. ;-) Good luck. > > We've become increasingly frustrated with ASHN. They seem to tell us one thing about patient benefits but never live up to it and they have lots of extra forms. Anyone else share this frustration? We are getting close to dropping out. If you prefer you can contact me on or off the list. > Sincerly, > Elliott Mantell DC > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I hate to be the bearer of bad news but any talk suggesting a boycott violates federal racketeering laws. Some of what has been said on this thread probably already does. Some of the original Obama care legislation allowed for us to collectively bargain but the ins companies through their lobbyists were able to get it out... SwansonSent from my iPhone ,Well said! If NO DC would sign up with such groups, we'd all benefit together and our patients would benefit.Perhaps it's possible for the associations to make a suggestion for members that we not sign contracts that force us to do unreasonable amounts of paperwork because if we work at half or less of our regular "pay rate" for certain companies, then other companies and or our private pay patients are ultimately paying part of the cost of keeping our office open for the patients whose insurances require us to do inordinate amounts of paperwork for minuscule reimbursements. It truly seems to me that it is unethical to contract to give the same service to different companies for different rates. Perhaps it's time ALL the healthcare professions take a stand on this issue.JanetJanet L Rueger, DCCertified BodyTalk Practitioner149 Clear Creek Dr., # 105Ashland, OR, 97520bodytalk@... Dr. Elliot: I think that you are way too advanced, intelligent, holistic and experienced as a healer of human beings to be contracted with that organization. Why? Let's be real, ASHN views you (and all of us) as " mechanical-non-complicated-lowback-pain-mitigatng-spinal-manipulating-robot-technicians". DCs are just a replaceable mindless commodity to them and so are the patients for that matter. If you contract with them and you want to help people in the most rational way possible, you will always be frustrated by their robotic machinations(and so will the patient). ASHN is the Mcs of chiropractic. Look, we DCs are not idiots, we understand there has to be a way to reasonably control costs, etc. but ASHNs approach of short-leash/micro-managed/fake-science-based-protocols is affront to any and all but the most naive/inexperienced chiros out there. Yet, DCs keep signing up with them?!?! "We have met the enemy, it is us". On balance, ASHN has been a terribly destructive force upon our profession, eroding quality, narrowing-scope, limiting-authority, cheapening and dumbing -down the art and science of chiropractic. I was with them for about 60 days about 8ish years ago so I have first-hand experience. I joined out of a combo of : fear, ignorance and patients-begging-me like most DCs do. That 60 days was long enough to learn what a low-quality outfit they were, so I quit. I couldn't stand the goofy requirements and non-science-based protocols from the start, but what put me over the edge was when they refused to pay for care for 15 year old kid. I guess they had a policy of no chiro care for people under 17 at that time, not sure if they still do. My humble opinion. I guess I just don't like being treated as if I am a crook and/or mentally-disabled. If anyone ever invents a "chirobot", ASHN will be the first to utilize it. ;-) Good luck. > > We've become increasingly frustrated with ASHN. They seem to tell us one thing about patient benefits but never live up to it and they have lots of extra forms. Anyone else share this frustration? We are getting close to dropping out. If you prefer you can contact me on or off the list. > Sincerly, > Elliott Mantell DC > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hi Janet, \While your suggestions might seem reasonable and logical, an insurance would see that fraud and conspiracy to control business and sue your state organization so fast it would make all of our heads swim .... so, despite the possible reasonableness, your state organization would NEVER, EVER do that. What individual doctors decide to do is their business. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com CC: oregondcs To: johncollinsdc@...From: bodytalk@...Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 20:55:11 -0700Subject: Re: Re: ASHN ,Well said! If NO DC would sign up with such groups, we'd all benefit together and our patients would benefit.Perhaps it's possible for the associations to make a suggestion for members that we not sign contracts that force us to do unreasonable amounts of paperwork because if we work at half or less of our regular "pay rate" for certain companies, then other companies and or our private pay patients are ultimately paying part of the cost of keeping our office open for the patients whose insurances require us to do inordinate amounts of paperwork for minuscule reimbursements. It truly seems to me that it is unethical to contract to give the same service to different companies for different rates. Perhaps it's time ALL the healthcare professions take a stand on this issue.JanetJanet L Rueger, DCCertified BodyTalk Practitioner149 Clear Creek Dr., # 105Ashland, OR, 97520bodytalk@... Dr. Elliot: I think that you are way too advanced, intelligent, holistic and experienced as a healer of human beings to be contracted with that organization. Why? Let's be real, ASHN views you (and all of us) as " mechanical-non-complicated-lowback-pain-mitigatng-spinal-manipulating-robot-technicians". DCs are just a replaceable mindless commodity to them and so are the patients for that matter. If you contract with them and you want to help people in the most rational way possible, you will always be frustrated by their robotic machinations(and so will the patient). ASHN is the Mcs of chiropractic. Look, we DCs are not idiots, we understand there has to be a way to reasonably control costs, etc. but ASHNs approach of short-leash/micro-managed/fake-science-based-protocols is affront to any and all but the most naive/inexperienced chiros out there. Yet, DCs keep signing up with them?!?! "We have met the enemy, it is us". On balance, ASHN has been a terribly destructive force upon our profession, eroding quality, narrowing-scope, limiting-authority, cheapening and dumbing -down the art and science of chiropractic. I was with them for about 60 days about 8ish years ago so I have first-hand experience. I joined out of a combo of : fear, ignorance and patients-begging-me like most DCs do. That 60 days was long enough to learn what a low-quality outfit they were, so I quit. I couldn't stand the goofy requirements and non-science-based protocols from the start, but what put me over the edge was when they refused to pay for care for 15 year old kid. I guess they had a policy of no chiro care for people under 17 at that time, not sure if they still do. My humble opinion. I guess I just don't like being treated as if I am a crook and/or mentally-disabled. If anyone ever invents a "chirobot", ASHN will be the first to utilize it. ;-) Good luck. > > We've become increasingly frustrated with ASHN. They seem to tell us one thing about patient benefits but never live up to it and they have lots of extra forms. Anyone else share this frustration? We are getting close to dropping out. If you prefer you can contact me on or off the list. > Sincerly, > Elliott Mantell DC > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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