Re: warrior diet question - how long theundereating p...

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

To my knowledge the body only stores 200g of glycogen or so. Also,

being low calorie doesn't imply feeling weak all day from glycogen

depletion. That sounds more like a sympton of insulin resistance to

me--ie; needing to eat all the time. Also, eating all the time,

doesn't prevent glycogen and fat from being used. If you use 2000cals

a day, and ingest that many through 10 meals...you cannot possibly

gain weight. I really don't think the timing of meals affects how much

fat is lost.

I do think fasting is beneficial to health but I really don't see how

it's conducive to fat loss. Especially if you're stuffing yourself

with food right before bed and then staying in starvation mode all of

the next day.

Cheers,

-

>

> >The Warrior Diet has changed the way I look at carbs a bit. First

of all, I

> >now consider it favorable to beef up my glycogen storage. Since

I'm combining

> >carb-eating with deliberate glycogen-exhaustion during the day, this

> >controlled approach directed at glycogen-storage seems it will be

likely to do just

> >that, rather than give me insulin or fat problems.

>

> I think that's part of the key right there ... USING UP the glycogen.

> I'm beginning to look on my " old life " like being a stuffed

> sausage ... eat eat eat, never use use use. If all your glycogen stores

> are full, and you stuff in more sugar, where is it supposed to go?

> It turns into fat eventually, but it's got to be a strain on the system.

>

> When I was on a low-cal diet once I was always LOW on

> glycogen, and really crashed if I missed a meal. I like the idea of

> having some handy and available too. I think the 4 lbs or so you

> lose when going on a low-cal diet the first week is all glycogen.

> And it comes back real fast after one piece of pie, which is so

> disheartening.

>

> -- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>

>To my knowledge the body only stores 200g of glycogen or so. Also,

>being low calorie doesn't imply feeling weak all day from glycogen

>depletion.

I'm not sure how many grams it works out to ...

the diet books say it is stored

with a lot of water, so the " water loss "

that happens on low-cal diets

is " glycogen loss " and amounts to about 4 lbs.

When I was on a low-cal diet I wasn't weak

all day, but I was weak if a meal was even

slightly late. I'd guess glycogen depletion

has a lot to do with that, or inability to

access it ... in THEORY your body is supposed

to be able to live off fat and glycogen without

a person getting weak and dizzy (which probably

implies high cortisol).

> That sounds more like a sympton of insulin resistance to

>me--ie; needing to eat all the time.

I would tend to agree. Or high cortisol.

At any rate, I used to have to

eat all the time, so I tried this because

it claims to cure the problem.

It did.

> Also, eating all the time,

>doesn't prevent glycogen and fat from being used. If you use 2000cals

>a day, and ingest that many through 10 meals...you cannot possibly

>gain weight. I really don't think the timing of meals affects how much

>fat is lost.

I'm not sure exactly either, but it does.

I track all my food, and my calorie intake hasn't

changed much. But I'm skinnier.

I had the same objections but I figured

it was one of those things that was so crazy it could be

proved or disproved easily.

And yes, I CAN gain weight on 2,000 cals!

Even walking around all day. My max to

maintain weight has been about 1,800. Guys burn more kcals.

>I do think fasting is beneficial to health but I really don't see how

>it's conducive to fat loss. Especially if you're stuffing yourself

>with food right before bed and then staying in starvation mode all of

>the next day.

Most folks agree with you, absolutely. However, those silly mice

DO live longer if they gorge themselves every other day. One

day they fast, the next they gorge (all the food they want). And

they live 150 mouse years. And they eat about the same

amount of calories ... no calorie restrictions! So now there

are TWO possibilities for long life diets that have been

mouse tested, anyway -- calorie restriction and feast/fast.

The WD also makes you live longer because for some

of us, it miraculously adds 2 hours to every day -- my

24 hour day is now 26 (less cooking and cleaning!).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/30/03 12:51:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Most folks agree with you, absolutely. However, those silly mice

> DO live longer if they gorge themselves every other day. One

> day they fast, the next they gorge (all the food they want). And

> they live 150 mouse years. And they eat about the same

> amount of calories ... no calorie restrictions! So now there

> are TWO possibilities for long life diets that have been

> mouse tested, anyway -- calorie restriction and feast/fast.

Plus you can't just assume you're in starvation mode if you're not eating.

That's obviously not the case, at least for successful Warrior Dieters, or they

wouldn't be losing fat.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

If you re-read what I wrote you'll notice that I agreed that fasting

was probably beneficial to health. I just don't think it's the best

way to lose weight. I warrior diet when it's convenient, personally.

-

---

> >I do think fasting is beneficial to health but I really don't see how

> >it's conducive to fat loss. Especially if you're stuffing yourself

> >with food right before bed and then staying in starvation mode all of

> >the next day.

>

> Most folks agree with you, absolutely. However, those silly mice

> DO live longer if they gorge themselves every other day. One

> day they fast, the next they gorge (all the food they want). And

> they live 150 mouse years. And they eat about the same

> amount of calories ... no calorie restrictions! So now there

> are TWO possibilities for long life diets that have been

> mouse tested, anyway -- calorie restriction and feast/fast.

>

> The WD also makes you live longer because for some

> of us, it miraculously adds 2 hours to every day -- my

> 24 hour day is now 26 (less cooking and cleaning!).

>

> -- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Well, you still lose fat while in starvation mode, just less

efficiently (ie: at the cost of muscle mass).

-

> In a message dated 9/30/03 12:51:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> heidis@t... writes:

>

> > Most folks agree with you, absolutely. However, those silly mice

> > DO live longer if they gorge themselves every other day. One

> > day they fast, the next they gorge (all the food they want). And

> > they live 150 mouse years. And they eat about the same

> > amount of calories ... no calorie restrictions! So now there

> > are TWO possibilities for long life diets that have been

> > mouse tested, anyway -- calorie restriction and feast/fast.

>

> Plus you can't just assume you're in starvation mode if you're not

eating.

> That's obviously not the case, at least for successful Warrior

Dieters, or they

> wouldn't be losing fat.

>

> Chris

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It

is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings,

birds, and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the

sight of them

> make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion,

> which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear

the sight of

> the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

> ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth,

and for those

> who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

> Well, you still lose fat while in starvation mode, just less

> efficiently (ie: at the cost of muscle mass).

>

> -

Again, the anecdotal evidence regarding the Warrior Diet in reference

to muscle loss shows that not eating does not necessarily lead to

starvation mode.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

I've done no research on this particular subject, but Ori's theory (as

related by you or someone else here on the list -- I haven't read his book)

that the body's determination of whether to go into starvation mode depends

on peak regular food consumption, not the daily average, makes a lot of

sense to me, and seems to fit available statistics and anecdotal data about

both people who employ reduced-calorie diets AND those who try to do so but

wind up snacking lightly all day and eating more calories than they

intended to.

>Again, the anecdotal evidence regarding the Warrior Diet in reference

>to muscle loss shows that not eating does not necessarily lead to

>starvation mode.

-

[Guest guest]

>>>>I do think fasting is beneficial to health but I really don't see how

it's conducive to fat loss. Especially if you're stuffing yourself

with food right before bed and then staying in starvation mode all of

the next day.

-------->on the WD you are not supposed to stuff yourself with food " right

before you go to bed " , rather you are supposed to have at least a 2 hour

window between finishing your last meal and going to bed.

btw, add me to the list of people who have lost *fat* on the WD. I wasn't

overweight to begin with, but i can clearly see that some of the fat on the

back of my thighs is reduced since starting the WD. i originally lost a

little weight, then gained it back. i think i may actually have a net gain

of about a lb. at this point. must be muscle.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:06:35 -0000

" paultheo2000 " <paultheo2000@...> wrote:

>I do think fasting is beneficial to health but I really don't see how

>it's conducive to fat loss. Especially if you're stuffing yourself

>with food right before bed and then staying in starvation mode all of

>the next day.

>

>Cheers,

>

>-

Hmmm....seems to be allowing for fat loss in my case. And I often eat

and then go right to sleep, contrary to what the WD author says.

And I'm not in " starvation mode " the next day. Unless you call having

lots of energy and being very strong " starving. " There is a difference

between fasting and starvation.

Exciting Jealousy in Women and Terror in Men

Taki on marriage.

http://tinyurl.com/p7pr

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:34:54 -0700

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>The WD also makes you live longer because for some

>of us, it miraculously adds 2 hours to every day -- my

>24 hour day is now 26 (less cooking and cleaning!).

>

>-- Heidi

>

Yes this is a tremendous feature, for all intents and purposes food is

relegated to just one part of the day, and then you can make that part

of the day a lot of fun.

Exciting Jealousy in Women and Terror in Men

Taki on marriage.

http://tinyurl.com/p7pr

[Guest guest]

" Starvation mode " is not synonmous with 'starvation'.

-

>

>

> >I do think fasting is beneficial to health but I really don't see how

> >it's conducive to fat loss. Especially if you're stuffing yourself

> >with food right before bed and then staying in starvation mode all of

> >the next day.

> >

> >Cheers,

> >

> >-

>

> Hmmm....seems to be allowing for fat loss in my case. And I often eat

> and then go right to sleep, contrary to what the WD author says.

>

> And I'm not in " starvation mode " the next day. Unless you call having

> lots of energy and being very strong " starving. " There is a difference

> between fasting and starvation.

>

>

> Exciting Jealousy in Women and Terror in Men

> Taki on marriage.

> http://tinyurl.com/p7pr

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:45:35 -0000

" paultheo2000 " <paultheo2000@...> wrote:

> " Starvation mode " is not synonmous with 'starvation'.

>

>-

It is not synonymous with fasting either.

Exciting Jealousy in Women and Terror in Men

Taki on marriage.

http://tinyurl.com/p7pr

[Guest guest]

Perhaps I'm wrong here, but isn't 'starvation mode' defined as

occuring during a period of fasting?

-

>

> > " Starvation mode " is not synonmous with 'starvation'.

> >

> >-

>

> It is not synonymous with fasting either.

>

>

> Exciting Jealousy in Women and Terror in Men

> Taki on marriage.

> http://tinyurl.com/p7pr

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 12:17:11 -0000

" paultheo2000 " <paultheo2000@...> wrote:

>Perhaps I'm wrong here, but isn't 'starvation mode' defined as

>occuring during a period of fasting?

>

>-

>

No, although in some circles it might be used that way as a popular

description of going without food, which is not the same as going

without nutrients.

When the body begins to cannibalize itself (and that can be a long time

when you are fasting properly and not on some weird low cal regimen),

you have moved from fasting to starvation mode.