Guest guest Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 As far as I know there is no NHS lab in the UK that does faecal clostridial culture (i.e. to look for all different types of clostridia). The reason being that they are found in normal people and so the interpretation is very difficult. Clostridium difficile culture is carried out in just a few labs but the problem with this is that it is found normally in 4% of the population and it is only when there is large amounts of the bacterium present that enough of the toxin that it produces actually causes any problem. A test for large amounts is carried by almost all labs and that is not to look for the bacteria themselves but to look for the toxins that the bacteria produce. If the toxin amounts is unmeasurable then the finding of the Clostridium difficile cannot be interpreted. The best research was carried out by Finegold in 2002 (see Clinical Infectious Diseases 2002;35:S6-S16 on Pubmed on the internet) and repeated by Parracho in Journal of Medical Microbiology 2005;54:987-991) and that shows that in autistic samples it was almost impossible to look for specific Clostridia as a diagnostic tool or in association with specific disease. The authors did their best to use duodenal and jejunal samples rather than faecal samples (because this would give the best idea as to what is going on) are quite certain that there is an overgrowth of bacteria in upper gut but whether this causes symptoms or as a result of other factors in the disease is currently unclear. As a result the NHS people simply cannot culture faecal samples and claim that their findings would be meaningful in terms of treatment or symptoms...I think that their worry is that private labs are doing this and giving the impression that the findings are important when really they should not be interpreting in this way when research really isnt adequate to show that. Steve Dealler Re: Re: Clostridia I will ask. There must be because they treat Clos Dif in various circumstances. xx Sally Patience Elliott wrote: > Hi Sally, > > We fairly desperately need a faecal analysis for gut bugs (good and > bad)done in the UK. Do you (and yours) know whether there's a useful > bog standard NHS test which could be done at any large hospital, and > whether or not, with the consultant or his SHO, we would need to > specify the bugs to be looked for? > > We're currently trying to convince medics that such an investigation > needs to be done and need all the info we can get hold of that NHS > bods will accept! (Son is now 23 and under psychiatrist) > > Also, is anyone getting faecal analyses done privately in the UK and > if so where? Could any of the University research departments be > persuaded to help do uou think? > > Many thanks > Patience > > */Eva family <bobsallyeva@ ntlworld. com>/* wrote: > > Zoe I didn't say to him " a child with a compromised immune system > and > dysbiotic gut flora " . I did say child on spectrum. What he was saying > was that HPHPA didn't necessarily mean Clos Dif. It could mean > lots of > other things. > > Has your child got diarrhoea? Why not show the paed the test and > ask for > an NHS test for gut bugs including Clostridium Dificile? > Sally > > Zoe wrote: > > > > I am unsure what this means about the reliability of the Great > > Plains OAT test, on which P read high (almost off the scale) for > > HPHPA. > > > > This also seems to contradict everything I have read about the need > > to treat pathogenic bacteria in the guts of children with > > compromised immune systems and dysbiotic gut flora. > > > > Can anyone else give a view - Mandi, Jo? > > > > Thanks > > > > Zoe > > > > > > > > > > Hi, I spoke to my NHS Deep Throat about this. > > > He said that the stuff found in the wee test would not be taken as > > > invariably meaning Clostridia. If Clostridia were present this > > would not > > > necessarily be dificile. If it were CD then this would only need > > > treatment if large quantities were found and the patient were > > > experiencing diarrhoea. CD is dangerous in the gut (not the blood) > > but > > > generally to little old ladies and people already weak (after > > surgery). > > > Clostridia dificile is found asymptomatically in small amounts in > > the > > > guts of normal people and is not a cause for worry. > > > > > > The two key points for treatment were a) large amounts of CD and > > > > > diarrhoea. The HPHPA in the wee test would not prove CD > > > xx Sally > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/862 - Release Date: > 22/06/2007 15:04 > > > > > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find > out more at the Yahoo! 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