Re: Dry needling discussion OCOM Tuesday 1-2pm

[Guest guest]

Just for grins Dr. Irving what subject(s) are you teaching at NCNM? Vern Saboe

Dry needling "discussion" OCOM Tuesday 1-2pm

I was told that OCOM is having another "discussion" about dry needling on Tuesday from 1-2. I am teaching at NCNM that day but would love it if a few DCs could go. Last time they had one, none of us knew about it and they kind of made it sound like our education was sub-par and we were incompetent to work on trigger points with or without a needle. The legal battle right now is more of a battle about whether or not the OBCE can interpret our scope or not without outside intervention or input. in addition, the last OCOM DN discussion started by the "panel" stating that DCs could not use a needle to treat trigger points and that they would only have the training to do so if they went to acupuncture school. The discussion went on and at the end, it was decided that DCs could do it if they went through a program at an acupuncture school, that was 600-800 hours, because they are the experts on DN and trigger point work. You can watch the tedious video of this discussion here http://vimeo.com/18806859-Tim Irving DC

[Guest guest]

Tim,   I am not sure I see why it would be of any value to be at the next discussion.  This panel is clearly out to protect their turf and their can be no compromise it would appear.  This case must be  decided in the legal arena-and perhaps in the legislative arena one day.  I see no value in knocking heads with this informal panel of folks who have little interest in protecting the general public and plenty of interest in protecting their income and turf. 

Listening to this video was painful indeed!!   Schneider DCPDX

 

I was told that OCOM is having another " discussion " about dry needling on Tuesday from 1-2. I am teaching at NCNM that day but would love it if a few DCs could go. Last time they had one, none of us knew about it and they kind of made it sound like our education was sub-par and we were incompetent to work on trigger points with or without a needle.

The legal battle right now is more of a battle about whether or not the OBCE can interpret our scope or not without outside intervention or input. in addition, the last OCOM DN discussion started by the " panel " stating that DCs could not use a needle to treat trigger points and that they would only have the training to do so if they went to acupuncture school. The discussion went on and at the end, it was decided that DCs could do it if they went through a program at an acupuncture school, that was 600-800 hours, because they are the experts on DN and trigger point work. You can watch the tedious video of this discussion here http://vimeo.com/18806859

-Tim Irving DC

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

,

I wasnt looking at it as knocking heads. The way it was relayed to me was it was

an open discussion. I just thought it would be nice to have some folks there to

represent the DC community in case the panel misrepresents us. The public in

Oregon is missing out on the use of the needle to treat myofascial trigger

points as most acupuncturists that I have referred patients to do not seem to

focus or specialize in treating MFTPs. There are a couple of NDs that do a good

job though.

This, at this point, is a legal battle; the assumptions they make about us

regarding our training and expertise, more importantly, protecting our

professional integrity in a discussion forum seems to be valuable to me. My post

wasn't a " call to arms " though; I can't go, I just wanted you all to know about

it.

Vern,

Nutrition III

Orthopedics

Organ systems II

Naturopathic Manipulative Therapuetics/ Orthopedic Synthesis I-V

I even have a teaching shift in the clinic on Monday's for a few hours.

Hope that makes you giggle, not sure why it would though.

-Tim Irving DC

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > I was told that OCOM is having another " discussion " about dry needling on

> > Tuesday from 1-2. I am teaching at NCNM that day but would love it if a few

> > DCs could go. Last time they had one, none of us knew about it and they

> > kind of made it sound like our education was sub-par and we were

> > incompetent to work on trigger points with or without a needle.

> > The legal battle right now is more of a battle about whether or not the

> > OBCE can interpret our scope or not without outside intervention or input.

> > in addition, the last OCOM DN discussion started by the " panel " stating

> > that DCs could not use a needle to treat trigger points and that they would

> > only have the training to do so if they went to acupuncture school. The

> > discussion went on and at the end, it was decided that DCs could do it if

> > they went through a program at an acupuncture school, that was 600-800

> > hours, because they are the experts on DN and trigger point work. You can

> > watch the tedious video of this discussion here http://vimeo.com/18806859

> > -Tim Irving DC

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Schneider DC

> PDX

>

[Guest guest]

Tim,

WHat is Naturopathic Manipulative Therapuetics???

Don WHite, RN, DC

[Guest guest]

I would like to know how many "hours" LAc's have in physio/physical therapy. They use "TENS" machines all the time...hooked to the needles with alligator clips to stimulate meridian/TP's.

If they feel that use of an acupuncture needle is "acupuncture," then the use of TENS is "physical/physiotherapy." (:-)

RR

Re: Dry needling "discussion" OCOM Tuesday 1-2pm

Tim, I am not sure I see why it would be of any value to be at the next discussion. This panel is clearly out to protect their turf and their can be no compromise it would appear. This case must be decided in the legal arena-and perhaps in the legislative arena one day. I see no value in knocking heads with this informal panel of folks who have little interest in protecting the general public and plenty of interest in protecting their income and turf. Listening to this video was painful indeed!! Schneider DCPDX

I was told that OCOM is having another "discussion" about dry needling on Tuesday from 1-2. I am teaching at NCNM that day but would love it if a few DCs could go. Last time they had one, none of us knew about it and they kind of made it sound like our education was sub-par and we were incompetent to work on trigger points with or without a needle. The legal battle right now is more of a battle about whether or not the OBCE can interpret our scope or not without outside intervention or input. in addition, the last OCOM DN discussion started by the "panel" stating that DCs could not use a needle to treat trigger points and that they would only have the training to do so if they went to acupuncture school. The discussion went on and at the end, it was decided that DCs could do it if they went through a program at an acupuncture school, that was 600-800 hours, because they are the experts on DN and trigger point work. You can watch the tedious video of this discussion here http://vimeo.com/18806859-Tim Irving DC

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

Grade 1-5 joint. Mobilization, METs, strain/counterstrain, other soft tissue

techniques and orthopedic integration (orthopedic assessment and diagnosis), all

wrapped into one class.

-Tim

>

> Tim,

>

>

> WHat is Naturopathic Manipulative Therapuetics???

>

> Don WHite, RN, DC

>

[Guest guest]

Could you educate me on how much hands on body work naturopaths get?? Is it throughout their curriculum?? Don White, RN, DC

Grade 1-5 joint. Mobilization, METs, strain/counterstrain, other soft tissue techniques and orthopedic integration (orthopedic assessment and diagnosis), all wrapped into one class. -Tim>> Tim,> > > WHat is Naturopathic Manipulative Therapuetics??? > > Don WHite, RN, DC>

[Guest guest]

Dr. s,

The reality is that acupuncturists perform all sorts of " physical therapy or

Physiotherapy " . Some NDs perform spinal and extremity manipulation, as well as

Dry Needling. The irony with the DN issue is that the acupuncture association

has not once stated NDs are not qualified or should not perform DN without

obtaining a acupuncture license. But yet the chiropractic profession is

targeted for this issue. I sound like a broken record, but this is one of the

multiple reasons why we need to expand our scope and why I asked the question of

DN scope to our board many years ago. Once the judicial system determines

whether our board can interpret or not interpret our scope/laws, this may change

our fate. We will see.

Best regards,

Bill

Wm Hartje, DC, MS

Re: Dry needling " discussion " OCOM Tuesday 1-2pm

Tim, I am not sure I see why it would be of any value to be at the next

discussion. This panel is clearly out to protect their turf and their can be no

compromise it would appear. This case must be decided in the legal arena-and

perhaps in the legislative arena one day. I see no value in knocking heads with

this informal panel of folks who have little interest in protecting the general

public and plenty of interest in protecting their income and turf.

Listening to this video was painful indeed!!

Schneider DC

PDX

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:51 PM, dr_tim_irving_dc < tirving@... > wrote:

I was told that OCOM is having another " discussion " about dry needling on

Tuesday from 1-2. I am teaching at NCNM that day but would love it if a few DCs

could go. Last time they had one, none of us knew about it and they kind of made

it sound like our education was sub-par and we were incompetent to work on

trigger points with or without a needle.

The legal battle right now is more of a battle about whether or not the OBCE can

interpret our scope or not without outside intervention or input. in addition,

the last OCOM DN discussion started by the " panel " stating that DCs could not

use a needle to treat trigger points and that they would only have the training

to do so if they went to acupuncture school. The discussion went on and at the

end, it was decided that DCs could do it if they went through a program at an

acupuncture school, that was 600-800 hours, because they are the experts on DN

and trigger point work. You can watch the tedious video of this discussion here

http://vimeo.com/18806859

-Tim Irving DC

--

Schneider DC

PDX