Yesterday's Bridgeport MRI seminar

[Guest guest]

I woke up this morning still thinking about the presentation that was given during yesterday's Bridgeport CE seminar by the 'insurance adjuster' who has teamed up with PI attorney Jim Jennings and who provides counsel regarding the 'insurance' point of view. He was certainly the most 'entertaining' person on yesterday's seminar panel, but he was so ignorant. I just have come out and say that.I obviously was not the only one in the room who was surprised--NO, SHOCKED--to hear him compare the "2 year education of a Chiropractor" to the "8 or 12 year education of an orthopedic surgeon" and why one might side with the orthopedist's opinion. Really???I also was surprised to see him 'towing the line' on the 'minor impact/no injury' argument. "Show me the vehicle".There are plenty of studies and medical texts that speak to the many variables that must be considered when looking at how and why a particular individual is injured, regardless of the force of impact. There were other parts of his presentation that were equally ignorant and insurance-biased. Yikes.I publicly corrected him on the chiropractic education issue and tried to push that a little. He seemed surprised and replied something like, Oh, actually, no I didn't know that or I wasn't aware of that. Really?Someone who had worked in the insurance industry for 30+ years and had 'worked his way up' to VP, was at AIG??I do recall him mentioning that he had no education to speak of, only 1 year after high school. I guess that's credential enough to make him VP and then to supply valuable "counsel" to a PI attorney. Seriously?Perhaps we need a public ad campaign regarding the considerable (and similar) medical education we are required to have as doctors of chiropractic. We have apparently been ineffective in providing the public, the insurance companies, and perhaps legistators?, with that information. Just sharing some thoughts and reactions.Ann DC

[Guest guest]

Dr. .

The OCA has revamped the Insurance Relations Committee, whose

responsibility it will be to meet and educate the insurance

industry.  We will be holding education meetings with insurance

companies and PI attorneys, as well as our members to get everyone

on the same page.  It might take a few months to get this info all

in one packet, to be distributed to the right people, but it is

progressing.

It is our hope that this will resolve some of the issues we are

experiencing today.

Grice, DC

Albany, OR

 

I woke up this morning still thinking about the

presentation that was given during yesterday's Bridgeport

CE seminar by the 'insurance adjuster' who has teamed up

with PI attorney Jim Jennings and who provides counsel

regarding the 'insurance' point of view. He was certainly

the most 'entertaining' person on yesterday's seminar

panel, but he was so ignorant.  I just have come out and

say that.

I obviously was not the only one in the room who was

surprised--NO, SHOCKED--to hear him compare the "2

year education of a Chiropractor" to the "8 or

12 year education of an orthopedic surgeon" and why one

might side with the orthopedist's opinion.  Really???

I also was surprised to see him 'towing the line' on the

'minor impact/no injury' argument.  "Show me the vehicle".

There are plenty of studies and medical texts that speak

to the many variables that must be considered when looking

at how and why a particular individual is injured,

regardless of the force of impact. 

There were other parts of his presentation that were

equally ignorant and insurance-biased.  Yikes.

I publicly corrected him on the chiropractic education

issue and tried to push that a little.  He seemed

surprised and replied something like, Oh, actually, no I

didn't know that or I wasn't aware of that.  Really?

Someone who had worked in the insurance industry for 30+

years and had 'worked his way up' to VP, was at AIG??

I do recall him mentioning that he had no education to

speak of, only 1 year after high school.  I guess that's

credential enough to make him VP and then to supply

valuable "counsel" to a PI attorney.  Seriously?

Perhaps we need a public ad campaign regarding the

considerable (and similar) medical education we are

required to have as doctors

of chiropractic.  We have apparently been ineffective in

providing the public, the insurance companies, and perhaps

legistators?, with that information.

Just sharing some thoughts and reactions.

Ann DC

[Guest guest]

Ann,

The sound quality on the microphone was pretty bad and I didn't hear the comment made by Mr. Jenning's employee, a past insurance claims adjustor. He isn't a claims adjustor any longer. Though I could gather by your comment that it had something to do with DC education. Thank you for educating him on that point. He needed the information.

I thought he was saying, "Here's the problems we have defending low impact injuries." "Here's the argument the current claims adjustors make on low impact injuries." "Help us defend this position as much as possible by explaining to us, how a low impact injury can hurt the patient in each individual case." I don't think this law firm feels that there is no injury with low impact cases. I've heard this same thing from many other law firms that I've worked with during pre-trial conference to trouble shoot cases. The lawyers look to us to help them find defensible positions in standard arguments. What I took away was, be prepared to help the legal team defend/explain any injury in low impact cases because almost all insurance companies are now fighting that type of claim in one way or another. I can see how it sounded as if the speaker was defending the position of no injury, but I don't think that's the point he was trying to make.

It's really no surprise that 99% of insurance agents don't know our education. It's good for us to recognize this so we can educate them without coming off angry. That way they will educate us in insurance routines that we may not know. That being said, I do sympathize with the frustration of others thinking DCs are not educated as well as other healing professions. Perhaps we could send a UWS (or your alma mater) course curriculum to any law firm we work with? I have a feeling the speaker that you educated at Mr. Jennings office now recognizes our education and will better understand the level of expertise we have.

I make it a habit of sending my CV to :

1. all attorneys that I work with or network with for mutual referral

2. MDs who refer to me

3. If I have to send a note to an MD to coordinate care

4. Always before expert witness testimony, make certain the attorney has your CV

5. Any health professionals I network with for mutural referrals

6. At all pubilc speaking engagements for the audience

The education he has that's invaluable for assisting patients in cost recovery; is knowing how an insurance company works, how decisions are made.That part of the seminar was invaluable. To tell us that all claims people will ask for IME or reports after 4 months because of the massive volume of claims they must clear was very helpful to me. I realize it might help if they employed more people. BUt since that's not happening and we have no control over it, this information is valuable. We can use this to sympathize with them when speaking on the phone. That goes a long way to getting better service.

Another bit of advice I found helpful is to consider putting our decision making into lay terms so the claims folks know why we're treating longer, why there's a break in care, or why we ordered a study. How many of us call the insurance company prior to ordering an MRI? I did that on a claim last month and by speaking with the adjustor, and explaining rationale, I got the MRI paid for, additional care added without an IME past the 4 month period. I will be calling more often when I make diagnostic or treatment changes in plan.

Again, thanks for educating the speaker.

Minga Guerrero DC

abowoman@...

Re: Yesterday's Bridgeport MRI seminar

Dr. .

The OCA has revamped the Insurance Relations Committee, whose responsibility it will be to meet and educate the insurance industry. We will be holding education meetings with insurance companies and PI attorneys, as well as our members to get everyone on the same page. It might take a few months to get this info all in one packet, to be distributed to the right people, but it is progressing.

It is our hope that this will resolve some of the issues we are experiencing today.

Grice, DC

Albany, OR

I woke up this morning still thinking about the presentation that was given during yesterday's Bridgeport CE seminar by the 'insurance adjuster' who has teamed up with PI attorney Jim Jennings and who provides counsel regarding the 'insurance' point of view. He was certainly the most 'entertaining' person on yesterday's seminar panel, but he was so ignorant. I just have come out and say that.

I obviously was not the only one in the room who was surprised--NO, SHOCKED--to hear him compare the "2 year education of a Chiropractor" to the "8 or 12 year education of an orthopedic surgeon" and why one might side with the orthopedist's opinion. Really???

I also was surprised to see him 'towing the line' on the 'minor impact/no injury' argument. "Show me the vehicle".

There are plenty of studies and medical texts that speak to the many variables that must be considered when looking at how and why a particular individual is injured, regardless of the force of impact.

There were other parts of his presentation that were equally ignorant and insurance-biased. Yikes.

I publicly corrected him on the chiropractic education issue and tried to push that a little. He seemed surprised and replied something like, Oh, actually, no I didn't know that or I wasn't aware of that. Really?

Someone who had worked in the insurance industry for 30+ years and had 'worked his way up' to VP, was at AIG??

I do recall him mentioning that he had no education to speak of, only 1 year after high school. I guess that's credential enough to make him VP and then to supply valuable "counsel" to a PI attorney. Seriously?

Perhaps we need a public ad campaign regarding the considerable (and similar) medical education we are required to have as doctors of chiropractic. We have apparently been ineffective in providing the public, the insurance companies, and perhaps legistators?, with that information.

Just sharing some thoughts and reactions.

Ann DC

[Guest guest]

Well said Minga, The OCA’s Insurance Relations Committee is discussing the probability of hosting an annual insurance symposium which we could indeed hold at Hampton Hall in conjunction with UWS.  The idea bounced around is to invite all stakeholders that deal with auto PIP and likely workers comp and possibly general health insurance representatives.  We would have 15-20 min quick hard hitting presentations which are designed to inform and educate, everything from insurance SIU agents describing the latest fraud and inappropriate actions to UWS officials describing a DCs current education and goals for the future such as advanced degree programs e.g., “masters of science in functional medicine,†etc., etc., etc. We envision break out roundtable discussions discussing the hot buttons we all have determine the top ten by consensus, and then by consensus solutions to those problem issues, specific action steps, and timelines to implement those action steps to address those issues….. It is much easier to “demonize†someone or something from afar alternatively it is much different attempting to do so face to face….we could hire a professional facilitator for these round table discussions……in short start working together with the insurance industry rather than against so much…. Vern Saboe From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of AboWoman@...Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 5:01 PMTo: oregondcs Subject: Re: Yesterday's Bridgeport MRI seminar Ann,The sound quality on the microphone was pretty bad and I didn't hear the comment made by Mr. Jenning's employee, a past insurance claims adjustor. He isn't a claims adjustor any longer. Though I could gather by your comment that it had something to do with DC education. Thank you for educating him on that point. He needed the information. I thought he was saying, " Here's the problems we have defending low impact injuries. " " Here's the argument the current claims adjustors make on low impact injuries. " " Help us defend this position as much as possible by explaining to us, how a low impact injury can hurt the patient in each individual case. " I don't think this law firm feels that there is no injury with low impact cases. I've heard this same thing from many other law firms that I've worked with during pre-trial conference to trouble shoot cases. The lawyers look to us to help them find defensible positions in standard arguments. What I took away was, be prepared to help the legal team defend/explain any injury in low impact cases because almost all insurance companies are now fighting that type of claim in one way or another. I can see how it sounded as if the speaker was defending the position of no injury, but I don't think that's the point he was trying to make. It's really no surprise that 99% of insurance agents don't know our education. It's good for us to recognize this so we can educate them without coming off angry. That way they will educate us in insurance routines that we may not know. That being said, I do sympathize with the frustration of others thinking DCs are not educated as well as other healing professions. Perhaps we could send a UWS (or your alma mater) course curriculum to any law firm we work with? I have a feeling the speaker that you educated at Mr. Jennings office now recognizes our education and will better understand the level of expertise we have. I make it a habit of sending my CV to :1. all attorneys that I work with or network with for mutual referral2. MDs who refer to me3. If I have to send a note to an MD to coordinate care4. Always before expert witness testimony, make certain the attorney has your CV5. Any health professionals I network with for mutural referrals6. At all pubilc speaking engagements for the audience The education he has that's invaluable for assisting patients in cost recovery; is knowing how an insurance company works, how decisions are made.That part of the seminar was invaluable. To tell us that all claims people will ask for IME or reports after 4 months because of the massive volume of claims they must clear was very helpful to me. I realize it might help if they employed more people. BUt since that's not happening and we have no control over it, this information is valuable. We can use this to sympathize with them when speaking on the phone. That goes a long way to getting better service. Another bit of advice I found helpful is to consider putting our decision making into lay terms so the claims folks know why we're treating longer, why there's a break in care, or why we ordered a study. How many of us call the insurance company prior to ordering an MRI? I did that on a claim last month and by speaking with the adjustor, and explaining rationale, I got the MRI paid for, additional care added without an IME past the 4 month period. I will be calling more often when I make diagnostic or treatment changes in plan. Again, thanks for educating the speaker. Minga Guerrero DCabowoman@... Re: Yesterday's Bridgeport MRI seminar Dr. .The OCA has revamped the Insurance Relations Committee, whose responsibility it will be to meet and educate the insurance industry. We will be holding education meetings with insurance companies and PI attorneys, as well as our members to get everyone on the same page. It might take a few months to get this info all in one packet, to be distributed to the right people, but it is progressing.It is our hope that this will resolve some of the issues we are experiencing today. Grice, DCAlbany, OR I woke up this morning still thinking about the presentation that was given during yesterday's Bridgeport CE seminar by the 'insurance adjuster' who has teamed up with PI attorney Jim Jennings and who provides counsel regarding the 'insurance' point of view. He was certainly the most 'entertaining' person on yesterday's seminar panel, but he was so ignorant. I just have come out and say that.I obviously was not the only one in the room who was surprised--NO, SHOCKED--to hear him compare the " 2 year education of a Chiropractor " to the " 8 or 12 year education of an orthopedic surgeon " and why one might side with the orthopedist's opinion. Really???I also was surprised to see him 'towing the line' on the 'minor impact/no injury' argument. " Show me the vehicle " .There are plenty of studies and medical texts that speak to the many variables that must be considered when looking at how and why a particular individual is injured, regardless of the force of impact. There were other parts of his presentation that were equally ignorant and insurance-biased. Yikes.I publicly corrected him on the chiropractic education issue and tried to push that a little. He seemed surprised and replied something like, Oh, actually, no I didn't know that or I wasn't aware of that. Really?Someone who had worked in the insurance industry for 30+ years and had 'worked his way up' to VP, was at AIG??I do recall him mentioning that he had no education to speak of, only 1 year after high school. I guess that's credential enough to make him VP and then to supply valuable " counsel " to a PI attorney. Seriously?Perhaps we need a public ad campaign regarding the considerable (and similar) medical education we are required to have as doctors of chiropractic. We have apparently been ineffective in providing the public, the insurance companies, and perhaps legistators?, with that information. Just sharing some thoughts and reactions.Ann DC