Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Welcome Steffi!! ~~It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 hi steffi !! welcome to the group! im carolyn and i live in canada it is nice to meet you here. congratulations on your success!! im glad that you are enjoying billy and his workouts. weight watchers is great too. keep kicking! :*carolyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 welcome, Steffi! (My daughter's name is and the aunt that she is named after goes by steffi, too!) Anyway, - sorry to ramble on - welcome, and remember that your English is far better than my German! Take care, Donna --- " AIM: demiaen " wrote: > Hello, > > I am new on this list and I think I introduce myself > now, after first > lurking ;-). > My name is Steffi, I am living in germany (the > reason why my english > is far far away from beeing perfect), > with my dear husband and my 3 years old daughter. > Since she was born I > try to loose > the extra weight of about 35 pound. Some of the > pounds was melting > while I was > nursing my daughter and afterwards just while I was > a active and > fulltime working mum but > some of them stayed as remains of my pregnancy. The > most unlikely for > me was the > always 5th month-pregnant looking belly. > Then 6 weeks ago I started with Blanks > Bootcamp at home > and together with weight watchers as " control > instance " I lost a lot > of pounds and the best > of all, I don´t look pregnant anymore :-). > There are still 22 pounds to loose and I am very > excited about > kicking, jumping and punching > around and having much fun with the home exercises. > > Steffi > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 hi steffi:) welcome!! stacey > > Hello, > > I am new on this list and I think I introduce myself now, after first > lurking ;-). > My name is Steffi, I am living in germany (the reason why my english > is far far away from beeing perfect), > with my dear husband and my 3 years old daughter. Since she was born I > try to loose > the extra weight of about 35 pound. Some of the pounds was melting > while I was > nursing my daughter and afterwards just while I was a active and > fulltime working mum but > some of them stayed as remains of my pregnancy. The most unlikely for > me was the > always 5th month-pregnant looking belly. > Then 6 weeks ago I started with Blanks Bootcamp at home > and together with weight watchers as " control instance " I lost a lot > of pounds and the best > of all, I don´t look pregnant anymore :-). > There are still 22 pounds to loose and I am very excited about > kicking, jumping and punching > around and having much fun with the home exercises. > > Steffi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Hi Steffi! Welcome! I'm and I speak no German so your English is very impressive to me! :-) Congratulations on your fantastic weight loss and regaining your body shape! You are an inspiration to many on this list already I'm sure! I'll look forward to hearing more about your workouts! A new one Hello,I am new on this list and I think I introduce myself now, after first lurking ;-).My name is Steffi, I am living in germany (the reason why my english is far far away from beeing perfect),with my dear husband and my 3 years old daughter. Since she was born I try to loosethe extra weight of about 35 pound. Some of the pounds was melting while I was nursing my daughter and afterwards just while I was a active and fulltime working mum but some of them stayed as remains of my pregnancy. The most unlikely for me was thealways 5th month-pregnant looking belly.Then 6 weeks ago I started with Blanks Bootcamp at homeand together with weight watchers as "control instance" I lost a lot of pounds and the bestof all, I don´t look pregnant anymore :-).There are still 22 pounds to loose and I am very excited about kicking, jumping and punchingaround and having much fun with the home exercises. Steffi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Docs: Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board members and attorneys on the list can provide me with some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence of this situation. One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan her $20 so she could purchase her "medications." The CA came to me today and told me about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if I can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more "borrowed" money?) I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when I discuss the matter with her next week. Lyndon McGill, D.C. EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com www.EvolvingDaily.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Lyndon. I am not sure I would be discussing this with your patient as much as I would be your employee. Ron Grice, DC Albany, OR On 7/13/2012 5:38 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote: Docs: Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board members and attorneys on the list can provide me with some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence of this situation. One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan her $20 so she could purchase her "medications." The CA came to me today and told me about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if I can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more "borrowed" money?) I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when I discuss the matter with her next week. Lyndon McGill, D.C. EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com www.EvolvingDaily.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Sorry to the CA but it's her debt. If the PT skips you get nothing. Adding to the bill for non service charges is very gray and risky. I'm no attorney but just giving my opinion. Brad Rethwill DC Eugene > > Docs: > > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board members and > attorneys on the list can provide me with some legal jargon to > discourage a recurrence of this situation. > > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan her $20 so she > could purchase her " medications. " The CA came to me today and told me > about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if _I_ > can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here > at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more " borrowed " money?) > > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the patient that > prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when I discuss the matter with > her next week. > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > Salem, Oregon > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > www.EvolvingDaily.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Ditto.Ann DC :>0To: oregondcs Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 5:55:46 PMSubject: Re: A new one Sorry to the CA but it's her debt. If the PT skips you get nothing. Adding to the bill for non service charges is very gray and risky. I'm no attorney but just giving my opinion. Brad Rethwill DC Eugene > > Docs: > > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board members and > attorneys on the list can provide me with some legal jargon to > discourage a recurrence of this situation. > > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan her $20 so she > could purchase her "medications." The CA came to me today and told me > about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if _I_ > can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here > at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more "borrowed" money?) > > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the patient that > prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when I discuss the matter with > her next week. > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > Salem, Oregon > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > www.EvolvingDaily.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Already had that discussion, Ron. Just wanting to formulate a careful response to the patient. Lyndon On 7/13/2012 5:44 PM, Grice wrote: Lyndon. I am not sure I would be discussing this with your patient as much as I would be your employee. Ron Grice, DC Albany, OR On 7/13/2012 5:38 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote: Docs: Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board members and attorneys on the list can provide me with some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence of this situation. One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan her $20 so she could purchase her "medications." The CA came to me today and told me about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if I can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more "borrowed" money?) I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when I discuss the matter with her next week. Lyndon McGill, D.C. EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com www.EvolvingDaily.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 I agree, Brad. Was just hoping there was some legal jargon I could throw at the patient that lets her know we and our CAs are prohibited from loaning money to patients. Lyndon On 7/13/2012 5:55 PM, bradrethwilldc wrote: Sorry to the CA but it's her debt. If the PT skips you get nothing. Adding to the bill for non service charges is very gray and risky. I'm no attorney but just giving my opinion. Brad Rethwill DC Eugene > > Docs: > > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board members and > attorneys on the list can provide me with some legal jargon to > discourage a recurrence of this situation. > > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan her $20 so she > could purchase her "medications." The CA came to me today and told me > about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if _I_ > can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here > at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more "borrowed" money?) > > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the patient that > prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when I discuss the matter with > her next week. > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > Salem, Oregon > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > www.EvolvingDaily.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 How about this legalese??? "It's fraud, and I will do nothing to risk my license". Don White, RN, DC Docs:Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board members and attorneys on the list can provide me with some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence of this situation.One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan her $20 so she could purchase her "medications." The CA came to me today and told me about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if I can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more "borrowed" money?)I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when I discuss the matter with her next week.Lyndon McGill, D.C.EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council MemberSalem, Oregonwww.SalemSpineClinic.comwww.EvolvingDaily.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Thanks, Don. Of course, I would never add something like that to the patient's bill. I was just hoping that there was a statute or bylaw I could quote that prohibits us or our CAs from loaning money to patients so it would throw the fear of God into both my CA and patient. Lyndon McGill, D.C. EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com www.LimitlessRelief.com > How about this legalese??? " It's fraud, and I will do > nothing to risk my license " . > Don White, RN, DC > > > In a message dated 7/13/2012 5:38:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight > Time, twogems@... writes: > > > > > Docs: > > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board > members and attorneys on the list can provide me with > some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence of this > situation. > > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan > her $20 so she could purchase her " medications. " The CA > came to me today and told me about it, then proceeded to > say that the patient is now asking if I can pay the CA > back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here > at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more > " borrowed " money?) > > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the > patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of thing > when I discuss the matter with her next week. > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > Salem, Oregon > _www.SalemSpineClinic.com_ > (http://www.salemspineclinic.com/) > _www.EvolvingDaily.com_ (http://www.evolvingdaily.com/) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Lyndon, obviously you can't go along with this scheme, but as a learning tool for your staff you should discuss it in a staff meeting, and offer to reimburse your CA with $20 of other products from your clinic,not cash.make this a one time learning experience for everyone, and you look good too. R Johansen D.C. PC,DABCOChiropractic Life Center12762 SE Stark StreetPortland Oregon 97233Voice 5032557746,Fax 5032550818---------- Original Message ----------To: oregondcs Subject: A new oneDate: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 17:38:20 -0700 Docs:Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board members and attorneys on the list can provide me with some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence of this situation.One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan her $20 so she could purchase her "medications." The CA came to me today and told me about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if I can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more "borrowed" money?)I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when I discuss the matter with her next week.Lyndon McGill, D.C.EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council MemberSalem, Oregonwww.SalemSpineClinic.comwww.EvolvingDaily.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Good "boundary issue" instincts. If it feels and smells bad, trust those feelings. A doctor is generally prohibited from engaging in business and private financial relationships with patients. While it's only a private "charity" loan by your CA, if you then pay the CA, and then throw the $20 on the patient's bill, it really would be no different than if you had loaned the money. Your CA is your employee. You're liable for her acts and omissions committed within the course and scope of her employment. Do I think you have any real "risk management" exposure? Not really. But the principle's are the same. I agree with the idea of counseling the CA that we don''t do that sort of thing. If you pay the CA so she doesn't resent the patient, and if the patient gives her $20 sometime and the CA then gives it to you, that's pro ably the , that's povably not going to inflame any accusations. I wouldn't put it on your ledger for "professional services rendered, though." again, $20 isn't going to raise any eyebrows (hey, Doc, can I borrow the hose you have out front that cost you $20? Sure. ) No biggy. Just the boundary issue slippery slope. Mike Sent from my iPhone I agree, Brad. Was just hoping there was some legal jargon I couldthrow at the patient that lets her know we and our CAs areprohibited from loaning money to patients.LyndonOn 7/13/2012 5:55 PM, bradrethwilldcwrote: Sorry to the CA but it's her debt. If the PT skips youget nothing. Adding to the bill for non service charges isvery gray and risky. I'm no attorney but just giving myopinion.Brad Rethwill DCEugene>> Docs:> > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps theboard members and > attorneys on the list can provide me with some legaljargon to > discourage a recurrence of this situation.> > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs toloan her $20 so she > could purchase her "medications." The CA came to metoday and told me > about it, then proceeded to say that the patient isnow asking if _I_ > can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to thepatient's account here > at the office, which she will eventually pay. (Withmore "borrowed" money?)> > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with thepatient that > prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when Idiscuss the matter with > her next week.> > Lyndon McGill, D.C.> EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member> Salem, Oregon> www.SalemSpineClinic.com> www.EvolvingDaily.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Lyndon, I have to agree with on this one. Clearly, this is a type of boundary issue that has potential to move in a bad direction. However, would it ever reach the level of a violation? Prob not. While on the board, however, I did see a few that did. They followed this same scenario. Altho this is not the content of the currently required sexual boundary requirement, I think I will add this to my list of examples for the next live CEU class I'm doing. points out an important point; the amt of $ does make a difference in the level of the slope. The issues that were brought before the board, were hundreds or thousands of dollars in quantity. It had to do with a 'borrowing' of funds in either direction. In one case the patient loaned the doctor money, and in another the doctor loaned the patient money. Both resulted in very bad feelings by the 'banker' and ultimately complaints were filed. In a case this small, here's how it could result in a complaint against you. Let's say your employee keeps asking the patient at each visit, "Hey do you have my $20 loan yet?" "When can you pay me back?" And as time goes by, if the employee becomes more insistant in collection language, the patient may feel they can't reschedule because they feel guilty that they have no money to repay. They don't get well, because they're afraid to tell you or anyone at your office why they won't reschedule. They don't get a referral from you, because you don't realize why they aren't rescheduling. If it's an auto case, work injury or other litigous case with delayed treatment; the ins carrier asks the patient why there's a gap in treatment. You and your staff won't look good if there are perceived hard collection tactics to an injured patient. It's a conflict of interest on the part of your clinic. You get my drift? When the patient finally realizes that they can't get monetary compensation for their real injuries because of this delay in care, they file a complaint with the OBCE saying they were 'abandoned' or they felt they couldn't reschedule because the doctor's staff kept nagging them for a loan, etc... Loaning patients money can get you into trouble. I've seen where offices are offering to pay for gasoline so patients can make it to appts, taxi, MAX pass etc. All these 'loans' have a potential to backfire. If you 'give' a patient a loan of this type, it's a gift. You can't expect to tack it onto the bill without opening yourself up to a potential list of problems. I'm not criticizing your staff's intentions, just pointing out the potential problems. The sexual boundary class I'm offering for CEUs, covers similar scenarios, but with sexual boundary issues. If anyone out there still hasn't completed their requirements, you can get a copy of it by calling my office. Minga Guerrero DC Hood View Chiropractic 270 NE 181st Ave Portland, OR 97230 (j503) 669-1966 abowoman@... Re: A new one Thanks, Don. Of course, I would never add something like that to the patient's bill. I was just hoping that there was a statute or bylaw I could quote that prohibits us or our CAs from loaning money to patients so it would throw the fear of God into both my CA and patient. Lyndon McGill, D.C. EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com www.LimitlessRelief.com > How about this legalese??? "It's fraud, and I will do > nothing to risk my license". > Don White, RN, DC > > > In a message dated 7/13/2012 5:38:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight > Time, twogems@... writes: > > > > > Docs: > > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board > members and attorneys on the list can provide me with > some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence of this > situation. > > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan > her $20 so she could purchase her "medications." The CA > came to me today and told me about it, then proceeded to > say that the patient is now asking if I can pay the CA > back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here > at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more > "borrowed" money?) > > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the > patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of thing > when I discuss the matter with her next week. > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > Salem, Oregon > _www.SalemSpineClinic.com_ > (http://www.salemspineclinic.com/) > _www.EvolvingDaily.com_ (http://www.evolvingdaily.com/) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Lyndon, I would focus so much about the legality of it. I believe it actually may be legal for your CA to loan a patient their personal money, if they so wish... But who cares, it is just the wrong thing to do for so many reasons that we all know. I agree with the other docs that the fact that your CA would actually loan money to a patient reveals a weakpoint in your staff training IMHO. Just make it a written policy in your office that no staff can loan money to any patient, and also add that if any patient asks for such a thing that the staff must report this immediately. Have a quick staff meeting..explain it, and you're done. Tell the patient that it is against YOUR POLICY (regardless of whether it is legal or not) to ask a CA for a loan and that further requests will result in patient being dismissed. Done. > > Docs: > > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the board members and > attorneys on the list can provide me with some legal jargon to > discourage a recurrence of this situation. > > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to loan her $20 so she > could purchase her " medications. " The CA came to me today and told me > about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if _I_ > can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the patient's account here > at the office, which she will eventually pay. (With more " borrowed " money?) > > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the patient that > prohibits/discourages this kind of thing when I discuss the matter with > her next week. > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > Salem, Oregon > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > www.EvolvingDaily.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Thanks Mike, Minga, Ron, et al. I would never consider putting the $20 on the patient's account, even if it's a private account (which it is) and not PI or work comp. The CA is just a soft-spoken, good-hearted young lady and has trouble saying no to people. I was just hoping there was some official rule against loaning money to patients so she would have a legitimate excuse for refusing to do so in the future. I've already had " the talk " with the CA, so she knows the problems this kind of practice can create. She said she just felt sorry for the patient and didn't want to say no to her, but now understands the problems it creates. Lyndon McGill, D.C. EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com www.EvolvingDaily.com > Lyndon, > I have to agree with on this one. Clearly, > this is a type of boundary issue that has potential to > move in a bad direction. However, would it ever reach the > level of a violation? Prob not. While on the board, > however, I did see a few that did. They followed this same > scenario. Altho this is not the content of the currently > required sexual boundary requirement, I think I will add > this to my list of examples for the next live CEU class > I'm doing. > > points out an important point; the amt of $ > does make a difference in the level of the slope. The > issues that were brought before the board, were hundreds > or thousands of dollars in quantity. It had to do with a > 'borrowing' of funds in either direction. In one case the > patient loaned the doctor money, and in another the doctor > loaned the patient money. Both resulted in very bad > feelings by the 'banker' and ultimately complaints were > filed. > > In a case this small, here's how it could result in a > complaint against you. Let's say your employee keeps > asking the patient at each visit, " Hey do you have my $20 > loan yet? " " When can you pay me back? " And as time goes by > , if the employee becomes more insistant in collection > language, the patient may feel they can't reschedule > because they feel guilty that they have no money to > repay. They don't get well, because they're afraid to tell > you or anyone at your office why they won't reschedule. > They don't get a referral from you, because you don't > realize why they aren't rescheduling. If it's an auto case > , work injury or other litigous case with delayed > treatment; the ins carrier asks the patient why there's a > gap in treatment. You and your staff won't look good if > there are perceived hard collection tactics to an injured > patient. It's a conflict of interest on the part of your > clinic. You get my drift? When the patient finally > realizes that they can't get monetary compensation for > their real injuries becaus e of this delay in care, they > file a complaint with the OBCE saying they were > 'abandoned' or they felt they couldn't reschedule because > the doctor's staff kept nagging them for a loan, etc... > > Loaning patients money can get you into trouble. I've > seen where offices are offering to pay for gasoline so > patients can make it to appts, taxi, MAX pass etc. All > these 'loans' have a potential to backfire. If you 'give' > a patient a loan of this type, it's a gift. You can't > expect to tack it onto the bill without opening yourself > up to a potential list of problems. > > I'm not criticizing your staff's intentions, just pointing > out the potential problems. The sexual boundary class I'm > offering for CEUs, covers similar scenarios, but with > sexual boundary issues. If anyone out there still hasn't > completed their requirements, you can get a copy of it by > calling my office. > > > > > I'm not criticizing your staff's intentions, just pointing > out the potential problems. The sexual boundary class I'm > offering for CEUs, covers similar scenarios, but with > sexual boundary issues. If anyone out there still hasn't > completed their requirements, you can get a copy of it by > calling my office. > > > Minga Guerrero DC > Hood View Chiropractic > 270 NE 181st Ave > Portland, OR 97230 > (j503) 669-1966 > abowoman@... > > > > > Re: A new one > > > > > Thanks, Don. Of course, I would never add something like > that to the patient's bill. I was just hoping that there > was a statute or bylaw I could quote that prohibits us or > our CAs from loaning money to patients so it would throw > the fear of God into both my CA and patient. > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > Salem, Oregon > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > www.LimitlessRelief.com > > > How about this legalese??? " It's fraud, and I will do > > nothing to risk my license " . > > Don White, RN, DC > > > > > > In a message dated 7/13/2012 5:38:29 P.M. Pacific > > Daylight Time, twogems@... writes: > > > > > > > > > > Docs: > > > > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the > > board members and attorneys on the list can provide me > > with some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence of > > this situation. > > > > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to > > loan her $20 so she could purchase her " medications. " > > The CA came to me today and told me about it, then > > proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if I > > can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the > > patient's account here at the office, which she will > > eventually pay. (With more " borrowed " money?) > > > > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the > > patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of thing > > when I discuss the matter with her next week. > > > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > > Salem, Oregon > > _www.SalemSpineClinic.com_ > > (http://www.salemspineclinic.com/) > > _www.EvolvingDaily.com_ (http://www.evolvingdaily.com/) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Lyndon. the one thing your situation has opened up for all of us is to give us a very important topic to discuss at all of our next staff meeting. I would have never thought of this topic. But now thinking about it, my LMT/CA did give away a perfectly good washer and dryer she had in storage to a couple who were in need. She is now in the situation of needing it back, or at least replacing it with one as cheap as possible, asking if I would sell the one I have in our clinic. It will be good fodder for our general issues part of our staff meeting. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I hope it works out well for you. I kind of knew you would have taken care of it already, but we had to harp on you about it just for giggles. Ron Grice, DC Albany, OR Thanks Mike, Minga, Ron, et al. I would never consider putting the $20 on the patient's account, even if it's a private account (which it is) and not PI or work comp. The CA is just a soft-spoken, good-hearted young lady and has trouble saying no to people. I was just hoping there was some official rule against loaning money to patients so she would have a legitimate excuse for refusing to do so in the future. I've already had "the talk" with the CA, so she knows the problems this kind of practice can create. She said she just felt sorry for the patient and didn't want to say no to her, but now understands the problems it creates. Lyndon McGill, D.C. EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com www.EvolvingDaily.com > Lyndon, > I have to agree with on this one. Clearly, > this is a type of boundary issue that has potential to > move in a bad direction. However, would it ever reach the > level of a violation? Prob not. While on the board, > however, I did see a few that did. They followed this same > scenario. Altho this is not the content of the currently > required sexual boundary requirement, I think I will add > this to my list of examples for the next live CEU class > I'm doing. > > points out an important point; the amt of $ > does make a difference in the level of the slope. The > issues that were brought before the board, were hundreds > or thousands of dollars in quantity. It had to do with a > 'borrowing' of funds in either direction. In one case the > patient loaned the doctor money, and in another the doctor > loaned the patient money. Both resulted in very bad > feelings by the 'banker' and ultimately complaints were > filed. > > In a case this small, here's how it could result in a > complaint against you. Let's say your employee keeps > asking the patient at each visit, "Hey do you have my $20 > loan yet?" "When can you pay me back?" And as time goes by > , if the employee becomes more insistant in collection > language, the patient may feel they can't reschedule > because they feel guilty that they have no money to > repay. They don't get well, because they're afraid to tell > you or anyone at your office why they won't reschedule. > They don't get a referral from you, because you don't > realize why they aren't rescheduling. If it's an auto case > , work injury or other litigous case with delayed > treatment; the ins carrier asks the patient why there's a > gap in treatment. You and your staff won't look good if > there are perceived hard collection tactics to an injured > patient. It's a conflict of interest on the part of your > clinic. You get my drift? When the patient finally > realizes that they can't get monetary compensation for > their real injuries becaus e of this delay in care, they > file a complaint with the OBCE saying they were > 'abandoned' or they felt they couldn't reschedule because > the doctor's staff kept nagging them for a loan, etc... > > Loaning patients money can get you into trouble. I've > seen where offices are offering to pay for gasoline so > patients can make it to appts, taxi, MAX pass etc. All > these 'loans' have a potential to backfire. If you 'give' > a patient a loan of this type, it's a gift. You can't > expect to tack it onto the bill without opening yourself > up to a potential list of problems. > > I'm not criticizing your staff's intentions, just pointing > out the potential problems. The sexual boundary class I'm > offering for CEUs, covers similar scenarios, but with > sexual boundary issues. If anyone out there still hasn't > completed their requirements, you can get a copy of it by > calling my office. > > > > > I'm not criticizing your staff's intentions, just pointing > out the potential problems. The sexual boundary class I'm > offering for CEUs, covers similar scenarios, but with > sexual boundary issues. If anyone out there still hasn't > completed their requirements, you can get a copy of it by > calling my office. > > > Minga Guerrero DC > Hood View Chiropractic > 270 NE 181st Ave > Portland, OR 97230 > (j503) 669-1966 > abowoman@... > > > > > Re: A new one > > > > > Thanks, Don. Of course, I would never add something like > that to the patient's bill. I was just hoping that there > was a statute or bylaw I could quote that prohibits us or > our CAs from loaning money to patients so it would throw > the fear of God into both my CA and patient. > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > Salem, Oregon > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > www.LimitlessRelief.com > > > How about this legalese??? "It's fraud, and I will do > > nothing to risk my license". > > Don White, RN, DC > > > > > > In a message dated 7/13/2012 5:38:29 P.M. Pacific > > Daylight Time, twogems@... writes: > > > > > > > > > > Docs: > > > > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the > > board members and attorneys on the list can provide me > > with some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence of > > this situation. > > > > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to > > loan her $20 so she could purchase her "medications." > > The CA came to me today and told me about it, then > > proceeded to say that the patient is now asking if I > > can pay the CA back and then add the $20 to the > > patient's account here at the office, which she will > > eventually pay. (With more "borrowed" money?) > > > > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the > > patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of thing > > when I discuss the matter with her next week. > > > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > > Salem, Oregon > > _www.SalemSpineClinic.com_ > > (http://www.salemspineclinic.com/) > > _www.EvolvingDaily.com_ (http://www.evolvingdaily.com/) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Ron: When you practice in the slums of the State like you and I do, we're bound to step into the kinds of excrement that docs in prosperous areas will never see. Lyndon McGill, D.C. EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member Salem, Oregon www.SalemSpineClinic.com www.EvolvingDaily.com > Lyndon. > the one thing your situation has opened up for all of us > is to give us a very important topic to discuss at all of > our next staff meeting. I would have never thought of > this topic. But now thinking about it, my LMT/CA did > give away a perfectly good washer and dryer she had in > storage to a couple who were in need. She is now in the > situation of needing it back, or at least replacing it > with one as cheap as possible, asking if I would sell the > one I have in our clinic. It will be good fodder for our > general issues part of our staff meeting. Thanks for > bringing this to our attention. I hope it works out well > for you. I kind of knew you would have taken care of it > already, but we had to harp on you about it just for > giggles. > > Ron Grice, DC > Albany, OR > > > > > > Thanks Mike, Minga, Ron, et al. I would never consider > > putting the $20 on the patient's account, even if it's a > > private account (which it is) and not PI or work comp. > > The CA is just a soft-spoken, good-hearted young lady > > and has trouble saying no to people. I was just hoping > > there was some official rule against loaning money to > > patients so she would have a legitimate excuse for > > refusing to do so in the future. I've already had " the > > talk " with the CA, so she knows the problems this kind > > of practice can create. She said she just felt sorry for > > the patient and didn't want to say no to her, but now > understands the problems it creates. > > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > > Salem, Oregon > > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > > www.EvolvingDaily.com > > > > > Lyndon, > > > I have to agree with on this one. > > > Clearly, this is a type of boundary issue that has > > > potential to move in a bad direction. However, would > > > it ever reach the level of a violation? Prob not. > > > While on the board, however, I did see a few that did. > > > They followed this same scenario. Altho this is not > > > the content of the currently required sexual boundary > > > requirement, I think I will add this to my list of > > > examples for the next live CEU class I'm doing. > > > > > > points out an important point; the amt > > > of $ does make a difference in the level of the slope. > > > The issues that were brought before the board, were > > > hundreds or thousands of dollars in quantity. It had > > > to do with a 'borrowing' of funds in either direction. > > > In one case the patient loaned the doctor money, and > > > in another the doctor loaned the patient money. Both > > > resulted in very bad feelings by the 'banker' and > > > ultimately complaints were filed. > > > > > > In a case this small, here's how it could result in a > > > complaint against you. Let's say your employee keeps > > > asking the patient at each visit, " Hey do you have my > > > $20 loan yet? " " When can you pay me back? " And as time > > > goes by , if the employee becomes more insistant in > > > collection language, the patient may feel they can't > > > reschedule because they feel guilty that they have no > > > money to repay. They don't get well, because they're > > > afraid to tell you or anyone at your office why they > > > won't reschedule. They don't get a referral from you, > > > because you don't realize why they aren't > > > rescheduling. If it's an auto case , work injury or > > > other litigous case with delayed treatment; the ins > > > carrier asks the patient why there's a gap in > > > treatment. You and your staff won't look good if there > > > are perceived hard collection tactics to an injured > > > patient. It's a conflict of interest on the part of > > > your clinic. You get my drift? When the patient > finally realizes that they can't get monetary compensation > > > for their real injuries becaus e of this delay in care > > > , they file a complaint with the OBCE saying they were > > > 'abandoned' or they felt they couldn't reschedule > > > because the doctor's staff kept nagging them for a > > loan, etc... > > > > Loaning patients money can get you into trouble. I've > > > seen where offices are offering to pay for gasoline so > > > patients can make it to appts, taxi, MAX pass etc. All > > > these 'loans' have a potential to backfire. If you > > > 'give' a patient a loan of this type, it's a gift. You > > > can't expect to tack it onto the bill without opening > > > yourself up to a potential list of problems. > > > > > > I'm not criticizing your staff's intentions, just > > > pointing out the potential problems. The sexual > > > boundary class I'm offering for CEUs, covers similar > > > scenarios, but with sexual boundary issues. If anyone > > > out there still hasn't completed their requirements, > > > you can get a copy of it by calling my office. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not criticizing your staff's intentions, just > > > pointing out the potential problems. The sexual > > > boundary class I'm offering for CEUs, covers similar > > > scenarios, but with sexual boundary issues. If anyone > > > out there still hasn't completed their requirements, > > > you can get a copy of it by calling my office. > > > > > > > > > Minga Guerrero DC > > > Hood View Chiropractic > > > 270 NE 181st Ave > > > Portland, OR 97230 > > > (j503) 669-1966 > > > abowoman@... <mailto:abowoman%40aol.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: A new > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Don. Of course, I would never add something > > > like that to the patient's bill. I was just hoping > > > that there was a statute or bylaw I could quote that > > > prohibits us or our CAs from loaning money to patients > > > so it would throw the fear of God into both my CA and > > patient. > > > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > > > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > > > Salem, Oregon > > > www.SalemSpineClinic.com > > > www.LimitlessRelief.com > > > > > > > How about this legalese??? " It's fraud, and I will > > > > do nothing to risk my license " . > > > > Don White, RN, DC > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/13/2012 5:38:29 P.M. Pacific > > > > Daylight Time, twogems@... > > <mailto:twogems%40unidial.com> writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Docs: > > > > > > > > Here's one I haven't encountered before. Perhaps the > > > > board members and attorneys on the list can provide > > > > me with some legal jargon to discourage a recurrence > > > > of this situation. > > > > > > > > One of my female patients convinced one of my CAs to > > > > loan her $20 so she could purchase her > > > > " medications. " The CA came to me today and told me > > > > about it, then proceeded to say that the patient is > > > > now asking if I can pay the CA back and then add the > > > > $20 to the patient's account here at the office, > > > > which she will eventually pay. (With more " borrowed " > > > money?) > > > > > I was hoping to have some legalese to share with the > > > > patient that prohibits/discourages this kind of > > > > thing when I discuss the matter with her next week. > > > > > > > > Lyndon McGill, D.C. > > > > EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member > > > > Salem, Oregon > > > > _www.SalemSpineClinic.com_ > > > > (http://www.salemspineclinic.com/) > > > > _www.EvolvingDaily.com_ > > > (http://www.evolvingdaily.com/) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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