Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 > Wow! I am totally absorbed in this group and cannot read enough. I am hoping to join Anya's online course soon.....very excited. > > One thing that does worry me though is that I am a vegan and would not therefore use beeswax if I wanted to make a solid perfume. Is there any alternative that I could use? > > Kind Regards, > > Hi : There are bonus modules for online students, and one is about solid perfumes. There are hard wax substitutes for beeswax, including carnuba and floral waxes among others. Anya McCoy http://AnyasGarden.com http://PerfumeClasses.com http://NaturalPerfumers.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Hi , this is a new world to me. Why not beeswax? Bees are vegans, and bees wax does not contain bees. If I use composted manure in my veggie patch and the veggies take up the nutrients, am I doing something wrong? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Vegan's don't use beeswax? Why not? Amber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Hi Amber and Here is an extract from Wisegeek.com " The difference between a vegan and a vegetarian is that a vegan eliminates all animal products from his or her diet, including dairy. Those following a vegan lifestyle generally do not wear leather and avoid products made from animals such as wool, silk and down. Vegans' tremendous humanity for animals is an abiding, overriding conviction in their lives. " This is really something that I aspire to (emphasis is aspire :-)) but am not ridiculously obsessive about....if I go out to dinner I would not snub my host but would eat what I could as long is does not include meat. I don't wear anything made from leather and would avoid animal by products in anything I make if at all possible - that,s just me :-) I would have no problem with your veggies but a fanatical vegan just might :-)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Honey is a by product of an animal.. Vegans do not eat or use any animal product. The honey is made by bees to feed and nourish their young. A bee is considered an animal. HTH, Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm Ah! I just Googled the info. We enslave the poor bees, and they suffer. They would be better in the wild searching and hunting, and not near fields of flowers and fruit trees. I also discovered that bees are harmful to the environment. There ya go. Science at it's best. Isn't the Internet great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hi - has anyone tried soywax in perfuming as a substitute for beeswax? (Note that I'm not going bail for soybean production which is a whole 'nother subject that includes topics such as " is biotech screwing around with soybean genetics " and " is soybean farming really the best use of farmland " neither of which I know anything about.) I'm not a vegan, but I did read that vegan site that found and it says that HONEYbees are harmful to the environment. (Apparently there are other kinds of bees.) Actually I believe the writer meant that they are harmful to an environment to which they are nonnative (which would be North America) since they were apparently imported from Europe in the 1600s and they squeeze out native bee species. I'm not endorsing this or any other view; I'm just obsessive. best regards, in AZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 > One thing that does worry me though is that I am a vegan and would not therefore use beeswax if I wanted to make a solid perfume. Is there any alternative that I could use? > > Kind Regards, > I make my vegan balms and lotions with candelilla wax and various butters. You may need to experiment to get the consistency you desire. Beeswax is amazing because it produces a balm that is stable in warm weather and very smooth, however, it does need to be heated to 160 F to melt so any alternative that melts at a lower temperature will also preserve your precious perfume oils. Welcome to the world of " botanical " perfumery! Best, Maggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Beezz.... There is treasure we’re told In the syrup of gold, In the humming castles of wax. Holding fine ancient notions Of healing love potions, Which the bees caravan on their backs. Flower to flower They all the buzz the bower, Like Eros with quiver and bow And each darling petal Shall never be settled, Till caressed by the sex dust they sow And when it is dark We kindle a spark, And rooms become warm and aglow. By a Bees candle bright By that ambery light We nestle and wrestle and know. Liquid amber they pour Sticky stuff, we adore, without them our lives are less sweet. Like earth and the trees How fragile are bees Think of that the next time that you tweet. Plant a sunflower seed Tend a flowering weed, Give back to those form whom we take. Promote pollination Through plant fornication, The wonderous love the bees make. Katlyn 6/11 http://www.greatsunflower.org/ Katlyn Breene Mermade Magickal Arts (since 1984) katmermade@... http://www.mermadearts.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ah! yes, an American Indian perspective <vbg> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Thanks, Maggie - I use shea butter and cocoa butter for my lip balm so I am going to experiment. Just not sure quite what the consistency should be but will play :-) , I had wondered about soy wax - is that not used a lot for candles? Perhaps I can experiment with that as well. I guess the trick is find something without an aroma that is stable - perhaps a combination of shea butter and cocoa butter. I tried some balms with beeswax many years ago (before the vegan bug bit) and remember now that my oils seemed to lose " potency " - I guess because they were evaporating before the oil was cooling? Or I will just wait until I sign up for Anya's course :-))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ah....that is beautiful. I do love bees, by the way :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 > > Thanks, Maggie - I use shea butter and cocoa butter for my lip balm so I am going to experiment. Just not sure quite what the consistency should be but will play :-) > Cocoa butter will add it's fairly strong scent to your creation and this may or may not work depending on what you are wanting to achieve. Shea butter can be tricky because it can be grainy...and also has a strong odor unless yours is refined/bleached. I have had success with soy wax, candelilla, and carnuba. With the last 2 I am ignorant of any ethical, social, ecological impact with its use-- worldwide or universal for that matter;-) Candelilla is a very hard wax and you need about 1/2 as much in comparison to beeswax. Have not used carnuba for awhile but I believe it is the same. Good luck. Solid perfume is so much fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Flower to flower They all the buzz the bower, Like Eros with quiver and bow ... Thank you for sharing Kathlyn, that is so beautiful, it reminds me of one of my favourite writings from Kahlil Gibran 'How shall we distinguish that which is good in pleasure from that which is not good?' Go to your fields and your gardens, and you shall learn that it is the pleasure of the bee to gather honey of the flower, But it is also the pleasure of the flower to yield Its honey to the bee. For to the bee a flower is a fountain of life, And to the flower a bee is a messenger of love, And to both, bee and flower, the giving and the Receiving of pleasure is a need and an ecstasy. " Sophia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 > Hi - has anyone tried soywax in perfuming as a substitute for beeswax? > I had to experiment with soy wax extensively for a client, who wanted fragrances for soy candles. So I was able to try out mixing different oils, waxes, etc. with it and see the different reactions and consistencies. It is very flexible and stable as a medium and you can add floral waxes, cocoa butter, as well as FCO and jojoba oil. I will say it is a good alternative for beezwax. The raw material does have a milky, vanilla honey-ish scent. There are also a lot of different type of soy waxes each with different properties. You are bound to find a specific one for the properties you are looking for. Sophia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Thank you for sharing that one sophia! Katlyn Breene Mermade Magickal Arts (since 1984) katmermade@... http://www.mermadearts.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: Beeswax >Beezz.... > > >There is treasure we’re told >In the syrup of gold, >In the humming castles of wax. Katlyn, Did you write this poem? It's marvelous! Dara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yes I did, thanks.... I was out in my garden one morning and all the bees were having a summer herb bloom orgy.... Katlyn Breene Mermade Magickal Arts (since 1984) katmermade@... http://www.mermadearts.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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