RE: Muscle Spasm due to Low K

[Guest guest]

Probable sombale. What were the real numbers. so on you other graphs each point was not a blood draw?CE Grim MDDuring early years of my HTN when my doc unaware of PA did not prescribe me enough K I used to have back muscle spasms. I categorized them to {none, moderate, severe} and discovered that spasms very much were related to my low K. This graph shows serum K (mmol/L) vs probability of developing {none, moderate, severe} back muscle spasms. (my personal case). Max.61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

[Guest guest]

Example:

Draw a vertical line at K= 3.2

At K=3.2 mmol/L :

Probability of a severe back muscle spasm =~ 10% (yellow line)

Prob(severe)=~10% (yellow)

Prob(moderate)=~40% (green)

Prob(none)=~50% (blue line)

Which real numbers?

My K values are serum K (mmol/L).

Max.

61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

Probable sombale. What were the real numbers.

so on you other graphs each point was not a blood draw?

CE Grim MD

During early years of my HTN when my doc unaware of PA did not prescribe me enough K I used to have back muscle spasms. I categorized them to {none, moderate, severe} and discovered that spasms very much were related to my low K.

This graph shows serum K (mmol/L) vs probability of developing {none, moderate, severe} back muscle spasms. (my personal case).

Max.

61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

[Guest guest]

My serum K units are mmol/L, what is yours for 50+?

Max.

61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

It looks like you had 50+ blood K measurements.

Is that possible? You see why I think you might be anemic from all the blood draws.

[Guest guest]

If you mean 50+ frequency of blood tests, then my tests are taken once a month. Graphs are parts of 10 years data including interpolations.

Max.

61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

It looks like you had 50+ blood K measurements.

Is that possible? You see why I think you might be anemic from all the blood draws.

[Guest guest]

I was saying you had it measured over 50 times in the graph?My serum K units are mmol/L, what is yours for 50+? Max.61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEqIt looks like you had 50+ blood K measurements. Is that possible? You see why I think you might be anemic from all the blood draws.

[Guest guest]

Still a lot of measurements. I know of no one that does it once a month. Again may be taking enough each month to make you anemic over time.CE Grim MDIf you mean 50+ frequency of blood tests, then my tests are taken once a month. Graphs are parts of 10 years data including interpolations. Max.61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq It looks like you had 50+ blood K measurements. Is that possible? You see why I think you might be anemic from all the blood draws.

[Guest guest]

Here are my blood work results. Is there any indication of anemia?

Max.

61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

Still a lot of measurements. I know of no one that does it once a month. Again may be taking enough each month to make you anemic over time.

CE Grim MD

[Guest guest]

Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to me. Long before I

was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started getting a muscle spasm in my left

trapezius. Went through years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever

found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within a week after

starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone. A few months ago, when I began

getting tested for hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements

temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K dropped. Went back

on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm went away.

That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was diagnosed with HTN,

and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.

>

> During early years of my HTN when my doc unaware of PA did not prescribe me

enough K I used to have back muscle spasms. I categorized them to {none,

moderate, severe} and discovered that spasms very much were related to my low K.

>

> This graph shows serum K (mmol/L) vs probability of developing {none,

moderate, severe} back muscle spasms. (my personal case).

>

> Max.

> 61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40,

Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

>

>

> http://members.shaw.ca/studycircle/images/K-Spasm.png

>

[Guest guest]

Can you give us the name of your current internist and where he work? Very

common for most Dr to miss hyperaldosteronism. Even so called specialist.

> >

> > OK! Now with your story, Dr. Grim no longer considers my doc being the

> > dumbest doc...your doc took over that position!

> >

> > |

> > |Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to

> > |me. Long before I was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started

> > |getting a muscle spasm in my left trapezius. Went through

> > |years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever

> > |found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within

> > |a week after starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone.

> > |A few months ago, when I began getting tested for

> > |hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements

> > |temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K

> > |dropped. Went back on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm

> > |went away.

> > |

> > |That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was

> > |diagnosed with HTN, and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.

> > |

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Please use thumbnail at top of all of your posts. Thanks. OK! Now with your story, Dr. Grim no longer considers my doc being thedumbest doc...your doc took over that position!||Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to |me. Long before I was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started |getting a muscle spasm in my left trapezius. Went through |years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever |found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within |a week after starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone. |A few months ago, when I began getting tested for |hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements |temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K |dropped. Went back on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm |went away.||That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was |diagnosed with HTN, and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.|

[Guest guest]

Please take send my article to all those who missed you. You will be saving many others the same fate.CE Grim MDNot to derail your post too much, but... we're not just talking about *one* doc. I think I had at least a dozen or more "primary care" doctors during that time period. I knew that something other than garden-variety HTN was wrong, but couldn't convince any of them otherwise.I changed internists yet again a few months ago. One of his first questions was if I'd ever been tested for hyperaldosteronism. He referred me to a specialist that same day.>> OK! Now with your story, Dr. Grim no longer considers my doc being the> dumbest doc...your doc took over that position!> > |> |Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to > |me. Long before I was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started > |getting a muscle spasm in my left trapezius. Went through > |years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever > |found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within > |a week after starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone. > |A few months ago, when I began getting tested for > |hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements > |temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K > |dropped. Went back on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm > |went away.> |> |That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was > |diagnosed with HTN, and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.> |>

[Guest guest]

I've had periods where I was having lab drawn twice a week for several weeks. In fact, I haven't gone one month, in the last couple of years at least, without having lab drawn at least twice a month.

Juli

If you mean 50+ frequency of blood tests, then my tests are taken once a month. Graphs are parts of 10 years data including interpolations.

Max.

61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

It looks like you had 50+ blood K measurements.

Is that possible? You see why I think you might be anemic from all the blood draws.

[Guest guest]

How interesting is it!!!!! My muscle spasm started when I was 25 and had it once-twice a year for 40 years before I had my terrible episodes with BP. I am still not diagnosed with PA. Potassium tests 11/09/10 11/05/10 11/04/10 11/03/10 11/02/10 11/01/10 10/31/10 10/30/10 3.9 3.5 3.6 3.9

3.4 3.5 3.7 3.9To: hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 11:24:24 PMSubject: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low K

Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to me. Long before I was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started getting a muscle spasm in my left trapezius. Went through years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within a week after starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone. A few months ago, when I began getting tested for hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K dropped. Went back on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm went away.

That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was diagnosed with HTN, and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.

>

> During early years of my HTN when my doc unaware of PA did not prescribe me enough K I used to have back muscle spasms. I categorized them to {none, moderate, severe} and discovered that spasms very much were related to my low K.

>

> This graph shows serum K (mmol/L) vs probability of developing {none, moderate, severe} back muscle spasms. (my personal case).

>

> Max.

> 61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

>

>

> http://members.shaw.ca/studycircle/images/K-Spasm.png

>

[Guest guest]

I've figured out over the last 10 years that I get symptomatic (muscle cramps, fatigue, headache) when my K dips below 3.5. The lowest it has ever been was 2.6 about 10 years ago when I went into the ER for severe RLQ pain. It seems everyone has a different "normal".

Juli

40y F, Post R adrenalectomy 12.15.10

Subject: Re: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low KTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 6:03 PM

How interesting is it!!!!! My muscle spasm started when I was 25 and had it once-twice a year for 40 years before I had my terrible episodes with BP. I am still not diagnosed with PA. Potassium tests 11/09/10 11/05/10 11/04/10 11/03/10 11/02/10 11/01/10 10/31/10 10/30/10 3.9 3.5 3.6 3.9 3.4

3.5 3.7 3.9

To: hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 11:24:24 PMSubject: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low K

Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to me. Long before I was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started getting a muscle spasm in my left trapezius. Went through years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within a week after starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone. A few months ago, when I began getting tested for hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K dropped. Went back on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm went away.That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was diagnosed with HTN, and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.>> During early years of my HTN when my doc unaware of PA did not prescribe me enough K I used to have back muscle spasms. I categorized them to {none, moderate, severe} and discovered that spasms very much were related to my low K.> > This graph shows serum K (mmol/L) vs probability of developing {none, moderate, severe} back muscle spasms. (my personal case).> > Max.> 61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq> > > http://members.shaw.ca/studycircle/images/K-Spasm.png>

[Guest guest]

Correction...when my K drops below 3.8...not 3.5.

Juli

Subject: Re: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low KTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 6:03 PM

How interesting is it!!!!! My muscle spasm started when I was 25 and had it once-twice a year for 40 years before I had my terrible episodes with BP. I am still not diagnosed with PA. Potassium tests 11/09/10 11/05/10 11/04/10 11/03/10 11/02/10 11/01/10 10/31/10 10/30/10 3.9 3.5 3.6 3.9 3.4

3.5 3.7 3.9

To: hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 11:24:24 PMSubject: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low K

Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to me. Long before I was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started getting a muscle spasm in my left trapezius. Went through years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within a week after starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone. A few months ago, when I began getting tested for hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K dropped. Went back on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm went away.That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was diagnosed with HTN, and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.>> During early years of my HTN when my doc unaware of PA did not prescribe me enough K I used to have back muscle spasms. I categorized them to {none, moderate, severe} and discovered that spasms very much were related to my low K.> > This graph shows serum K (mmol/L) vs probability of developing {none, moderate, severe} back muscle spasms. (my personal case).> > Max.> 61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq> > > http://members.shaw.ca/studycircle/images/K-Spasm.png>

[Guest guest]

Hmmm seems like a lot of blood draws.CE Grim MDI've had periods where I was having lab drawn twice a week for several weeks. In fact, I haven't gone one month, in the last couple of years at least, without having lab drawn at least twice a month. JuliIf you mean 50+ frequency of blood tests, then my tests are taken once a month. Graphs are parts of 10 years data including interpolations. Max.61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq It looks like you had 50+ blood K measurements. Is that possible? You see why I think you might be anemic from all the blood draws.

[Guest guest]

I have just Dxed a pt who was forced to retire about 15 years ago because of back spasms. Was a hair dresser who made $100,000 a year. And had had an adrenal mass for 8 years.On spiro now off all of his 5 bp meds 120 K a day muscle relaxants. No longer has to get up to pee 5 times a night and edema to knees is gone.CE Grim MDHow interesting is it!!!!! My muscle spasm started when I was 25 and had it once-twice a year for 40 years before I had my terrible episodes with BP. I am still not diagnosed with PA. Potassium tests 11/09/10 11/05/10 11/04/10 11/03/10 11/02/10 11/01/10 10/31/10 10/30/10 3.9 3.5 3.6 3.9 3.4 3.5 3.7 3.9To: hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 11:24:24 PMSubject: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low K Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to me. Long before I was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started getting a muscle spasm in my left trapezius. Went through years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within a week after starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone. A few months ago, when I began getting tested for hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K dropped. Went back on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm went away.That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was diagnosed with HTN, and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.>> During early years of my HTN when my doc unaware of PA did not prescribe me enough K I used to have back muscle spasms. I categorized them to {none, moderate, severe} and discovered that spasms very much were related to my low K.> > This graph shows serum K (mmol/L) vs probability of developing {none, moderate, severe} back muscle spasms. (my personal case).> > Max.> 61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq> > > http://members.shaw.ca/studycircle/images/K-Spasm.png>

[Guest guest]

Who are you?Every one has a different normal but we usually do not who that is. If you read my article you will get the idea.No one has a normal K of 3.5 all the time tho.Are you easy or hard to get blood from?CE Grim MDI've figured out over the last 10 years that I get symptomatic (muscle cramps, fatigue, headache) when my K dips below 3.5. The lowest it has ever been was 2.6 about 10 years ago when I went into the ER for severe RLQ pain. It seems everyone has a different "normal". Juli40y F, Post R adrenalectomy 12.15.10Subject: Re: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low KTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 6:03 PM How interesting is it!!!!! My muscle spasm started when I was 25 and had it once-twice a year for 40 years before I had my terrible episodes with BP. I am still not diagnosed with PA. Potassium tests 11/09/10 11/05/10 11/04/10 11/03/10 11/02/10 11/01/10 10/31/10 10/30/10 3.9 3.5 3.6 3.9 3.4 3.5 3.7 3.9To: hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 11:24:24 PMSubject: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low K Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to me. Long before I was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started getting a muscle spasm in my left trapezius. Went through years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within a week after starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone. A few months ago, when I began getting tested for hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K dropped. Went back on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm went away.That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was diagnosed with HTN, and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.>> During early years of my HTN when my doc unaware of PA did not prescribe me enough K I used to have back muscle spasms. I categorized them to {none, moderate, severe} and discovered that spasms very much were related to my low K.> > This graph shows serum K (mmol/L) vs probability of developing {none, moderate, severe} back muscle spasms. (my personal case).> > Max.> 61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq> > > http://members.shaw.ca/studycircle/images/K-Spasm.png>

[Guest guest]

I agree and so do my veins! The reasons were med changes and problems keeping my postassium up.

Juli

To: hyperaldosteronism Cc: Clarence Grim Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 10:20:37 PMSubject: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low K

Hmmm seems like a lot of blood draws.

CE Grim MD

I've had periods where I was having lab drawn twice a week for several weeks. In fact, I haven't gone one month, in the last couple of years at least, without having lab drawn at least twice a month.

Juli

If you mean 50+ frequency of blood tests, then my tests are taken once a month. Graphs are parts of 10 years data including interpolations.

Max.

61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq

It looks like you had 50+ blood K measurements. Is that possible? You see why I think you might be anemic from all the blood draws.

[Guest guest]

Sorry, sent a correction. I'm symptomatic when I fall below about 3.8 not 3.5. I can be a hard stick but the lab I go to has been drawing it for the last few years so they don't have problems most the time. I've read your article...and just realized that must have been where I read about everyone's "normal" being different. It made a lot of sense to me.

Juli

40y F, Post min invasive adrenalectomy 12.15.10

To: hyperaldosteronism Cc: Clarence Grim Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 10:38:35 PMSubject: Re: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low K

Who are you?

Every one has a different normal but we usually do not who that is. If you read my article you will get the idea.

No one has a normal K of 3.5 all the time tho.

Are you easy or hard to get blood from?

CE Grim MD

I've figured out over the last 10 years that I get symptomatic (muscle cramps, fatigue, headache) when my K dips below 3.5. The lowest it has ever been was 2.6 about 10 years ago when I went into the ER for severe RLQ pain. It seems everyone has a different "normal".

Juli

40y F, Post R adrenalectomy 12.15.10

Subject: Re: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low KTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 6:03 PM

How interesting is it!!!!! My muscle spasm started when I was 25 and had it once-twice a year for 40 years before I had my terrible episodes with BP. I am still not diagnosed with PA. Potassium tests 11/09/10 11/05/10 11/04/10 11/03/10 11/02/10 11/01/10 10/31/10 10/30/10 3.9 3.5 3.6 3.9

3.4 3.5 3.7 3.9

To: hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 11:24:24 PMSubject: Re: Muscle Spasm due to Low K

Your mention of back muscle spasms is really interesting to me. Long before I was diagnosed with HTN or low K, I started getting a muscle spasm in my left trapezius. Went through years of tests for an underlying cause and none was ever found. Last year when a doctor finally caught my low K, within a week after starting K supplements the spasm was almost gone. A few months ago, when I began getting tested for hyperaldosteronism, my doctor took me off of the supplements temporarily - and the muscle spasm came back when my serum K dropped. Went back on the K pills and guess what? Muscle spasm went away.That muscle spasm first showed up 8 years before I ever was diagnosed with HTN, and 16 years before I was diagnosed with low K.>> During early years of my HTN when my doc unaware of PA did not prescribe me enough K I used to have back muscle spasms. I categorized them to {none, moderate, severe} and discovered that spasms very much were related to my low K.> > This graph shows serum K (mmol/L) vs probability of developing {none, moderate, severe} back muscle spasms. (my personal case).> > Max.> 61M L adenoma NP59 Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Prav=40, Feno=67, K.cl=120 mEq> > > http://members.shaw.ca/studycircle/images/K-Spasm.png>