Re: New Natural concentrated fragrances from Grasse

[Guest guest]

" ...of high quality unlike anglo-saxon synthetic fragrances... "

> Isabelle

> www.lesparfumsisabelle.co.uk

>

Isabelle:

Anglo-Saxon synthetic fragrances??? What the heck is THAT supposed to mean?

From their fragrance list, it looks suspect, in my opinion. Just because they

are supposedly located in Grasse, FR doesn't mean diddly-squat as any

correlation to being reputable. Do they reveal what 'naturals' these fragrances

are composed of? Just seems like another double-talk, bait & switch scam to me.

Then again, I'm mostly a complete skeptic.

-RuhKewda

[Guest guest]

>

> " ...of high quality unlike anglo-saxon synthetic fragrances... "

> > Isabelle

> > www.lesparfumsisabelle.co.uk

> Isabelle:

>

> Anglo-Saxon synthetic fragrances??? What the heck is THAT supposed to mean?

From their fragrance list, it looks suspect, in my opinion. Just because they

are supposedly located in Grasse, FR doesn't mean diddly-squat as any

correlation to being reputable. Do they reveal what 'naturals' these fragrances

are composed of? Just seems like another double-talk, bait & switch scam to me.

Then again, I'm mostly a complete skeptic.

>

> -RuhKewda

>

Hello RuhKewda,

I wrote 'UNLIKE anglo-saxon synthetic fragrances' and not that they ARE

'synthetic fragrances'.

I'll tell you when I have tried those fragrances. The only reason why I'll try

them is because I have been using Aroma Zone as a supplier of natural materials

including high quality essential oils and absolutes for many years and never had

reason to believe they were lying... I believe in giving them a chance until

proven wrong.

I'll also ask them what 'natural aromatics' the fragrances are composed of

before I place my order. I also believe that Grasse has many laboratories with

the ability and capacity to produce naturals based on modern technology. Albert

Vieille (supplier to this group) is one of them.

Isabelle

[Guest guest]

> " ...of high quality unlike anglo-saxon synthetic fragrances... "

> Isabelle:

>

> Anglo-Saxon synthetic fragrances??? What the heck is THAT supposed to mean?

From their fragrance list, it looks suspect, in my opinion. Just because they

are supposedly located in Grasse, FR doesn't mean diddly-squat as any

correlation to being reputable. Do they reveal what 'naturals' these fragrances

are composed of? Just seems like another double-talk, bait & switch scam to me.

Then again, I'm mostly a complete skeptic.

>

Hi Folks....

I dunno if it matters whether they are low or high quality synthetic

fragrances....They are still syns, whatever their origin...

I agree with ruhkewda....the list does look suspect...Before I'd use one

of these, I'd want a breakdown of what's in them....I don't care about

percentages, just what....

Folks (and I'm not picking on Isabelle, who I have a healthy respect

for, and a crush on....<G>...!), I don't care if you believe you can

detect synthetic essence...There are folks that make big bucks trying to

fool you....They do succeed, or they would be canned....

They can do a 90-95% close, with little effort....

Just my biased to Natural opinion.....

--

W. Bourbonais

L'Hermite Aromatique

A.J.P. (GIA)

http://www.facebook.com/Le.Hermite

[Guest guest]

" If you remove an arm from a person, it no longer can be

called a person, if you know what I mean. "

With all due respect, you may want to rethink this analogy, RuhKewda? I respect

and agree with your position here but this comment is offensive to differently

abled people. I assume that was not your intention.

Peace,

[Guest guest]

>

> If a lab has the ability to separate a constituent from a natural substance,

it then becomes `unnatural' in the sense that it has been artificially taken out

of the complete and complex context of its natural formation. This is what

makes the holistic beauty of real essential oils appealing to most of the

Natural Perfumists, I think. If you remove an arm from a person, it no longer

can be called a person, if you know what I mean.

>

> -RuhKewda

The first part of your statement isn't true: if it were, the

different grades of ylang ylang, some patchouli distillations,

cineole-chemotype rosemary, etc. would be unnatural. Take milk:

cream/whole milk/2%/1%/skim. They're all milk, just different

fat content milk.

The second part is just sloppy writing, of which I am frequently

guilty - a person without an arm is still a person.

Anya McCoy

http://AnyasGarden.com

http://PerfumeClasses.com

http://NaturalPerfumers.com

[Guest guest]

>

>

> " If you remove an arm from a person, it no longer can be

> called a person, if you know what I mean. "

>

> With all due respect, you may want to rethink this analogy, RuhKewda? I

respect and agree with your position here but this comment is offensive to

differently abled people. I assume that was not your intention.

>

> Peace,

>

:

You took this wrong; I meant the arm could no longer be called a person, not

the person without the arm.

-RuhKewda

[Guest guest]

> The first part of your statement isn't true: if it were, the

> different grades of ylang ylang, some patchouli distillations,

> cineole-chemotype rosemary, etc. would be unnatural. Take milk:

> cream/whole milk/2%/1%/skim. They're all milk, just different

> fat content milk.

>

> The second part is just sloppy writing, of which I am frequently

> guilty - a person without an arm is still a person.

>

> Anya McCoy

Anya:

Modifying the known constituents within a complex biology such as milk or an

essential oil still contains within it all or most of those individual parts,

just varying amounts of them. It is still therefore milk. But if you take

lactose out of it, the lactose can not be called milk, it is something else.

You can not use it in the same way that you use milk. That is probably not the

clearest explanation of what I was getting at, but you're right, I may be a

sloppy writer.

-RuhKewda

[Guest guest]

My read on it is that they are probably useing the same loophole used

by all the companies selling " natural " flavours.

You can legally call anything " natural " as long as it is made of things

that are naturally derived.

You can say, create a " natural " banana flavour that never went anywhere

near a banana...out of aroma chemicals that were isolated from plant ie

natural sources.

This for me is the quandary about usineg natural isolates.

They are isolated chemicals made from natural sources. And like all the

other chemical fragrance building blocks, you can use them to re-create

a simily of a natural scent.

I just don't know how I feel about it.

I'm playing with a number of isolates at the moment, and you can do some

really cool things with them...but I feel a bit as though I was useing

heroin. Hell of a buzz, but is it still good, clean, natural fun?

Ambrosia

http://perfumebynature.blogspot.com

[Guest guest]

Dear RuhKewda,

In the Guild of Natural perfumer position paper

(http://naturalperfumers.com/NPG-position-paper-definition.pdf), on page 2,

natural isolates are mentioned as being accepted as 'fragrance ingredients of

natural origin'.

I think the ongoing debate is about defining what 'natural' means. I am not in

the dogmatic camp where I would only work with essential oils, absolutes and

oleoresins if there are other options to improve my perfumes. I do not use

synthetics but I would use natural isolates if I could get hold of some. I

believe the products Aroma Zone is launching fall in the natural isolates group.

I have sent an email to ask them for clarification on the process. Also I'd like

to mention that I have no commercial interest with them whatsoever. I started

the topic because I am always on the lookout for other types of ingredients that

are naturally extracted and can be used in our art and improve our formulations.

Isabelle

www.lesparfumsisabelle.co.uk

[Guest guest]

Hello Madame Louise

I have not received a press release. I receive their newsletter. As I explained

to RuhKewda, I have now sent an email to Aroma Zone and ask them to clarify the

process for these natural fragrances...

Isabelle

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

The reason why I got interested is because they actually said that they were not

synthetic... However, let's wait for their reply to my email requesting

clarifications on the process and then we can talk... I might be naive but I

don't think all laboratories are trying to fool us. I still believe there are

ethical companies out there. Or maybe I am naive:)

This apart, thank you for your nice comments and I am glad to see you are

doing well...

Isabelle

[Guest guest]

>

> Dear ,

>

> The reason why I got interested is because they actually said that they were

not synthetic... However, let's wait for their reply to my email requesting

clarifications on the process and then we can talk... I might be naive but I

don't think all laboratories are trying to fool us. I still believe there are

ethical companies out there. Or maybe I am naive:)

>

> This apart, thank you for your nice comments and I am glad to see you are

doing well...

>

Hi Isabelle, Folks.....

Hanging in there....Some days are worse than others...

I myself base my position on the Position Paper...

http://naturalperfumers.com/NPG-position-paper-definition.pdf

As far as isolates go, their source is natural...Sure, they are

separated, but if you think about it, so are EOs, Concretes, and

Absolutes...And Tinctures and Infusions, even...

In almost all cases, the end result is a component provided by Ma

Gaia...The exceptions I'm familiar with are Blue Chamomile, Sweet Birch,

and few others, where the standard process modifies the essence in a

chemical reaction...

Hey....Ylang 1, 2, and 3 are kinda isolates....<G>...!

That being said, there's room for most any position you want, within the

boundaries laid out in the Position Paper....

Some folks will not use animal essences, some folks maybe not even

absolutes and concretes...Lotsa different Ways to tread....

--

W. Bourbonais

L'Hermite Aromatique

A.J.P. (GIA)

http://www.facebook.com/Le.Hermite

[Guest guest]

>

>................. In the meantime, if you have a knowledge of French, you can

visit their website http://www.aroma-zone.com/aroma/fragrances.asp

>

> Isabelle

> www.lesparfumsisabelle.co.uk

>

Oh Isabelle, how I wish I couldn't read French....I have visited the site....

what a great resource!

One always wants to try a little of this and a little of that from here and

there and everywhere...I've had to hide my credit card from myself.

Am very impressed that this company states distillation and best-use-by dates of

the EOs, Absolutes etc, and has excellent general notes, monographs and

how-to-use information.

Thanks for sharing.

Margi M

http://margihealing.wordpress.com/

[Guest guest]

>

> I am about to order them all to satisfy my curiosity and try them. I will post

a review as soon as I have received them. In the meantime, if you have a

knowledge of French, you can visit their website

http://www.aroma-zone.com/aroma/fragrances.asp

>

> Isabelle

I'm curious to know if this was ever resolved?..

[Guest guest]

If you have the chrome browser, it translates this website to English

www.miraculousbeads.com

[Guest guest]

> > I am about to order them all to satisfy my curiosity and try them. I will

post a review as soon as I have received them. In the meantime, if you have a

knowledge of French, you can visit their website

http://www.aroma-zone.com/aroma/fragrances.asp

> >

> > Isabelle

>

> I'm curious to know if this was ever resolved?..

>

>

>

Hi ,

I thought I had posted about this. Sorry if I did not. Well I did try all the

natural fragrances. They are nice and are extracted from vegetal support but my

various experiments have not been conclusive. Apart from a and Coton flower

that give a little oompf to an alcohol-based fragrance, the others are faint and

when I have added a lot (i.e. above the recommended percentage), they either

have taken over the smell of the essential oils and made them disappear to be

replaced only by the scent of the concentrated fragrances or they have been

overwhelmed by the essential oils fragrance itself.

However in bath oils, body oils or creams, they are great... I still think that

it is better to go for natural isolates when you want to add some dimension to a

perfume...

Isabelle

[Guest guest]

> However in bath oils, body oils or creams, they are great... I still think

that it is better to go for natural isolates when you want to add some dimension

to a perfume...

>

> Isabelle

>

Thank you so much! I'll be sure to remember that