Re: One of those DUH! questions maybe...

[Guest guest]

________________________________

To: NaturalPerfumery

Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 8:26:54 PM

Subject: One of those DUH! questions maybe...

Hi Folks....

Can someone explain to me, just what makes a natural based perfume an

" Aromatherapy Perfume " ....?

Is it the scope of the ingredients, or just what.....? Blending with

reference to the therapeutic angle, rather than accords....?

I've seen the term, but have never got the definition down pat...

~~~~

namaste gary!

from my experience, an aromatherapy perfume started out as a way to distinguish

essential oil based perfumes from synthetic ones when the cultural awareness of

aromatherapy started catching on. these could be actual base/middle/top/fixated

perfumes or simply AT blends for personal use instead of say, massage or

diffusion.

those are great questions, and i think if one were to arrange a topical AT blend

for someone, then yes-- all that should be taken into consideration, because

then you are not worried so much about the perfection of an accord, but the

therapeutic intent; and i suppose one could work a simple AT blend into

something more complex within the same therapeutic range of your blend. for

example, if the AT blend were bergamot, lavender, peppermint... one could create

a fixed perfume with lavender concrete, mandarin or other citrus modifier, and

various mints. i am not sure hardcore ATers would consider the concrete safe,

etc... so you get into some grey (and interesting) area there.

btw, what is a duh question anyway? i always thought 'duh' was a response.

*grin*

much light, einsof

[Guest guest]

________________________________

To: NaturalPerfumery

Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 8:26:54 PM

Subject: One of those DUH! questions maybe...

Hi Folks....

Can someone explain to me, just what makes a natural based perfume an

" Aromatherapy Perfume " ....?

Is it the scope of the ingredients, or just what.....? Blending with

reference to the therapeutic angle, rather than accords....?

I've seen the term, but have never got the definition down pat...

--

hi again, i also should say, although i probably don't have to, that whenever

you are using essential oils, etc- you are going to have psychoaromatherapeutic

and phtyotherapeutic results. this may be intense emotional response (isn't

that what perfumes are?) or they may be cosmetic or they may be antiseptic

(probably all of the above.) in that sense, we are all making aromatherapeutic

perfumes. we just may not be resonating from that description, and therefore not

attracting the people who want to take shelter under that umbrella.

much light, einsof

[Guest guest]

That's a bit of a controversial issue, grin!

And like so many of these terms, there's no official definition of course.

I use the term myself at times, and for me, it means that the

ingredients in the perfume have been chosen to have a specific effect,

as well as for their scent properties.

So you have a scent that is made from natural ingredients, smells

awesome enough to be called a perfume, AND has a specific effect on the

wearers mind and body according to the principles of Aromatherapy.

I'm actually writing a blog chapter on exactly that subject, grin!

Will post the link here when it's finished.

Ambrosia

[Guest guest]

Hi ,I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure, but I have a guess on maybe what

are the differences with aromatherapy perfume to regular natural perfume. I

think aromatherapy perfumes aim at creating  scents that are therapeutic

aroma-wise. Like maybe a aromatherapy perfume with the name " Tranquility " is

marketed and made to do just that, make you feel tranquil or relaxed, so it

would probably contain soothing aromas like lavender, chamomile,etc. Also, I

have noticed that natural aromatherapy perfumes, may not, (but not always) have

as many ingredients or notes as a natural perfume. An example would be a perfume

like the above mention, it could have maybe five notes, lavender, chamomile,

patchouli,geranium, and benzoin. Of course this isn't a set rule with them, and

there are fine aromatherapy natural perfumes. Another, unfortunate thing I have

seen is that sometimes a perfume or product, usually something mass marketed,

will slap an aromatherapy title

on their wares, knowing that some will assume that since it says aromatherapy,

people will automatically think " natural " and it isn't. So you may find a

perfume at the drugstore that says " Rose Musk Romance Aromatherapy Perfume " or

something like that, and the label will show a rose, and so consumers relate

this to natural. But if you look at the ingredients, it will say something like,

: Rose Fragrance, Muscone, Red Color, Lake Blue 38, etc. Anyway, if that's my

guess, I could be wrong and my observations way off.Aer 

.

[Guest guest]

Well, the chart got all disassembled by the email program.

I've uploaded a jpg of it to the photo section - perfumery

miscellaneous. It may also be clickable from the front page of

the website for a week or so.

Anya McCoy

http://AnyasGarden.com

http://PerfumeClasses.com

http://NaturalPerfumers.com

[Guest guest]

>

> btw, what is a duh question anyway? i always thought 'duh' was a response.

> *grin*

> much light, einsof

>

Hi Ein...

Long time no yak....

Your explanation is what I kind of figured...Strictly AT doesn't include

absolutes, either....The solvent issue again....Jasmine abs seemed to

always slip thru for some reason, though....<G>...

I *should* know what defines an Aromatherapy Perfume, but I'm not sure...

In addition, I suspect a lot of newer folks on the list have an AT

background....I came from AT back when, myself (I'm a Gattefossian AT

type)...An AT type perfume might well be of interest to them...

I suspect I would have hung my hat on NP right away, but ListMom hadn't

started up this List, or acquired the Guild, etc., back then....

A DUH! question, is a question one poses, and when one gets the answer,

one goes, " Oh, yes of course.....DUH! "

--

W. Bourbonais

L'Hermite Aromatique

A.J.P. (GIA)

http://www.facebook.com/Le.Hermite

[Guest guest]

> Let's see if this chart from the AGNPI textbook can be viewed

> in an email program

>

> Comparison of the Three Types of Western Perfumery

>

Thanks ListMom...!

Though the chart came linear in my mailer...

Only line I would question is the Mainstream perfumes having a " Link to

ancient Egypt, historical figures " ...

Synths are essentially 19th century invention...Making that statement

nonsense...Unless is some other kind of link referred to...

Unless you are talking how they market them, as having an ancient

connection...?

Could you get that chart into a pdf maybe...? I think it would be quite

useful....

I think that answers my question...an AT perfume is made to inhale,

using oil as typical diluent, and using fragrant natural components as

outlined by the tenets of Aromatherapy Recipe (that covers the numbers

of aromatics involved also)......

--

W. Bourbonais

L'Hermite Aromatique

A.J.P. (GIA)

http://www.facebook.com/Le.Hermite

[Guest guest]

OK, here's my blog take on the subject:

http://perfumebynature.blogspot.com/2010/09/difference-between-aromatherapy-and.\

html

Ambrosia

[Guest guest]

I loved your article, Ambrosia! So true that there are few original, well

thought out books on aromatherapy. I think I have most books on aromatherapy in

my collection and there are only a few that are dog eared.

It IS a fine line between aromatherapy perfume and natural perfumery. So fine

that I do not concern myself with the concept at all. But then being a non

professional user and blender I do not have to delineate myself to the public.

Peace,

[Guest guest]

Excellent blog, Ambrosia!

For me, the main differentiation between Natural Perfumery and Aromatherapy is

this: the focus and consideration in blending for Aromatherapy is the MEDICINAL

constituents within the blend for deep massage into the epidermis, and for

pleasant or evocative SCENT sprayed or lightly daubed in the case of Natural

Perfumery. Therefore, Aromatherapy blends will have various limitations due to

the intent of body absorption, so allergy and toxicity concerns are regarded

cautiously. This is not as crucial with blending for perfumery, which is only

cursorily in contact with body tissue, and due to dilution with alcohol,

evaporates quickly before any viable penetration of the skin or nasal passages.

-RuhKewda

[Guest guest]

________________________________

evaporates quickly before any viable penetration of the skin or nasal passages.

-RuhKewda

~~~~

namaste!

" viable " is odd for me... if you can smell it, it already has entered the nasal

passages and is already triggering olfaction and therefore a whole host of

chemical/hormonal/emotional processes are underway.

much light, einsof

[Guest guest]

Don't forget, you also use diffusion in Aromatherapy , where there is

no contact with the skin at all and the scent is merely inhaled as it

diffuses....

Aromatherapy isn't only about massage.....

There is also a sideline in aromatherapy which includes the internal use

of essential oils...I've always been a bit wary of doing this myself,

but it was one of the earliest applications of AT in France.....

Ambrosia

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Thanks for the private email that confirms you saw the PDF of the

chart and it's readable. On this subject, remember when I wrote

this in 2004 for Kathleen's Aromatic Sage?

http://perfumeclasses.com/McCoy%20Natural%20Perfumery%20Evolution%20article%2020\

04.pdf

The Evolution of Aromatherapy to Natural Perfumery - I didn't

have clearly defined lines like I do now, but I do give a big nod

of recognition that we wouldn't be here if it weren't for what AT

did for the art.

Anya McCoy

http://AnyasGarden.com

http://PerfumeClasses.com

http://NaturalPerfumers.com

[Guest guest]

>

> Hello Ambrosia, I really enjoyed reading your blog, especially the part

> about pregnancy and rose and Arnica.

>

> Now I also know the difference between the two. Thank you for that. Hugs,

> joey, who was taught NEVER to use Rose oil when pregnant hahahahahaa.

> Geeezeee !

>

>

>

The Mind Boggles.....

even from a herbalists point of view, you could eat whole roses without

any danger of misscarriage!

Sigh...

Ambrosia

http://perfumebynature.blogspot.com

[Guest guest]

Great article Anya!

I hadn't seen it before.....

And I'm beginning to understand where you've been coming from with

Aromatherapy too...I've read the same books with so called " Aromatherapy

Perfume Blends " which just don't work as perfumes....

I just haven't paid much attention as I find I don't agree with a lot of

the formulars and concoctions out there.....aromatherapy or otherwise....

(And for that matter, I dislike a lot of perfumes too, including many of

the " classical " ones, grin!)

Some years ago I even rewrote a whole book full of magical blends

because they didn't work for my taste and senses....

In fact that's was one of the things I started with many years

ago...making ritual incense and oils from ancient text books....

There I finally decided that most of the recipes were based on what they

had available and regarded as exotic and special rather than the actual

scent and effect of the ingredients....and started to compile my own

lists and correspondences....

Ambrosia

[Guest guest]

> " viable " is odd for me... if you can smell it, it already has entered the

nasal passages and is already triggering olfaction and therefore a whole host of

chemical/hormonal/emotional processes are underway.

>

> much light, einsof

-----------

Hi, einsof:

I think that just smelling something, as opposed to inhaling deeply to fill the

lungs, is where the fine line of these may come into play for some. If just

smelling something bad for you had immediate physical affects, we could never

sniff out potentially harmful foods or situations. There are some natural

protective barriers in the nasal passages fortunately.

Perfumes, BOTH 'natural' and commercial (synthetic)can evoke (sometimes intense)

emotional responses. These are very much derivative of memory associations on a

conscious level, but many scents unquestionably also elicit chemical responses

based on UNconscious psychological perceptions to stimulate neurotransmitters.

Anyway, I agree that a scent or perfume can be an agent of influence or have

some nominal psychological (ergo physical) effects, but deliberate topical

application of an essential oil for direct medicinal intent is what I associate

Aromatherapy with, as opposed to the above, which I consider to be Perfumery.

Beautiful thoughts for the equinox, by the way! Thanks!

-RuhKewda

[Guest guest]

> Hi :

>

> Thanks for the private email that confirms you saw the PDF of the

> chart and it's readable. On this subject, remember when I wrote

> this in 2004 for Kathleen's Aromatic Sage?

>

>

http://perfumeclasses.com/McCoy%20Natural%20Perfumery%20Evolution%20article%2020\

04.pdf

> The Evolution of Aromatherapy to Natural Perfumery - I didn't

> have clearly defined lines like I do now, but I do give a big nod

> of recognition that we wouldn't be here if it weren't for what AT

> did for the art.

>

Hi ListMom......

The chart cleared things up for me....I even constructed an edited

version to refer to...

Agreed on the evolution article...

In addition, AT's popularity also resulted in the formation of a

marketing infrastructure....Many of the suppliers now provide the vastly

wider palette of essences that NP allows...

I do not know how many folks are familiar with Dominique Dubrana, Abdes

Salaam Attar....He is a Natural Perfumer getting World recognition, even

from folks that view NP with a jaundiced eye...He routinely incorporates

AT concepts in his blends....And he incorporates the entire NP

palette...He is a member of the Natural Perfumers Guild, and his website

is http://www.profumo.it/perfume/home_english.htm

If you are from an AT background, you might give that site a looksee,

and read his blog....He's a master of several dimensions....

Many of you folks know I come from AT.....With NP you have to kinda

suspend certain AT axioms to get a handle on NP....Print out the

ListMom's chart, and study it until it's rote for you....If you haven't

acquired one yet....get a copy of Mandy Aftel's 'Essence and Alchemy'...

That's kinda like a primer, and under $20 on Amazon....

Then, when you have some essences you are familiar with...start

blending, with this info in mind....Don't forget to take notes....Trust

me, I know you are sure you'll remember, and I also know you can

forget....<G>...!

There is much to learn....You can get the fundamentals from books, and

then you start the true journey....There are also schools that can aid

that journey, and make it less haphazard....

Care...

--

W. Bourbonais

L'Hermite Aromatique

A.J.P. (GIA)

http://www.facebook.com/Le.Hermite