Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 > Happy greetings perfumers, > I have been working on a gardenia perfume for....oh..over a year now. I thought I might as well ask for some guidance before I give up!! > I am using a natural gardenia absolute (China) and have finally found the dilution I am happy with...the heart also includes Jasmine, neroli and ylang, base is vanilla, sandalwood (mysore) Patchouli, benzoin. Top is citrus/green. > My dilemma is bridging... > The top is fabulous, but fades QUICK. the heart is lovely and fades QUICK, and the base is quite light without a hint of garndenia and fades in about 1 hr.!!!! > My goal is a soliflore...I'd like the gardenia to be present for at least 2 hr. I don't think I am being unrealistic (?) I'd love to hear any suggestions;-) > Many thanks! > > Ragna > It's certainly a challenge! Like you I worked on " My Gardenia " for over a year... It is also a soliflore and not the longest lasting of my perfumes Sometimes you have to accept that you cannot have everything with naturals My aim was to recreate a truly realistic gardenia scent and if the base notes are too strong, you lose the magical lightness of the flower The trick is to keep top middle and base notes really close in scent so that they go seamlessly from one to the other and you don't get the sense of three different layers Ambrosia > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 > Happy greetings perfumers, > I have been working on a gardenia perfume for....oh..over a year now. I thought I might as well ask for some guidance before I give up!! > I am using a natural gardenia absolute (China) and have finally found the dilution I am happy with...the heart also includes Jasmine, neroli and ylang, base is vanilla, sandalwood (mysore) Patchouli, benzoin. Top is citrus/green. > My dilemma is bridging... > The top is fabulous, but fades QUICK. the heart is lovely and fades QUICK, and the base is quite light without a hint of garndenia and fades in about 1 hr.!!!! > My goal is a soliflore...I'd like the gardenia to be present for at least 2 hr. I don't think I am being unrealistic (?) I'd love to hear any suggestions;-) > Many thanks! > > Ragna > It's certainly a challenge! Like you I worked on " My Gardenia " for over a year... It is also a soliflore and not the longest lasting of my perfumes Sometimes you have to accept that you cannot have everything with naturals My aim was to recreate a truly realistic gardenia scent and if the base notes are too strong, you lose the magical lightness of the flower The trick is to keep top middle and base notes really close in scent so that they go seamlessly from one to the other and you don't get the sense of three different layers Ambrosia > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 My goal is a soliflore...I'd like the gardenia to be present for at least 2 hr. I don't think I am being unrealistic (?) I'd love to hear any suggestions;-) What ingredients are you using for your base? I've never tried a Gardenia scent but know that several resins can be used with great success to prolong the scent. These have their own scent of course but sometimes just a tiny bit can make a difference. You may want to consider Benzoin or even make a pre-fixed bit of alcohol with Benzoin in it. In Mandy's book she mentions pre-fixing your alcohol with 2ml of Benzoin in 1 Gallons of alcohol I think? (I don't have the book in front of me). You can also try making a Benzoin tincture or if Benzoin doesn't work, try Liquidamber (Styrax or Storax is another name for it) or some other resin that can help prolong the perfumes scent without adding to much of it's own. There is also Ambergris of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 > > My goal is a soliflore...I'd like the gardenia to be present for at least 2 hr. I don't think I am being unrealistic (?) I'd love to hear any suggestions;-) > > Many thanks! __________________ > The trick is to keep top middle and base notes really close in scent so that they go seamlessly from one to the other and you don't get the sense of three different layers > > Ambrosia> >________________________ > Thank you Ambrosia, I remember reading about your gardenia scent. It sounds lovely and glad I'm glad you have a success working with this absolute. I have been fussing with this blend for-ever and I love it (but) ...I guess I am too demanding on the natural elements that I have to work with it,hoping I can " fix " what really isn't broken at all. Any suggestions on what I might add to the base to extend the gardenia? I might not be able to extend the longevity but if I could blend the gardenia into the base ...I would be happy and quite possible " done " with this creation. If that is possible;-) Btw, I did't mention that this is an oil perfume, FCO. again, thank you Ragna > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 > > > >________________________ > > > Thank you Ambrosia, > I remember reading about your gardenia scent. It sounds lovely and > glad I'm glad you have a success working with this absolute. > I have been fussing with this blend for-ever and I love it (but) > ..I guess I am too demanding on the natural elements that I have to > work with it,hoping I can " fix " what really isn't broken at all. > Any suggestions on what I might add to the base to extend the gardenia? > I might not be able to extend the longevity but if I could blend the > gardenia into the base ...I would be happy and quite possible " done " > with this creation. If that is possible;-) > Btw, I did't mention that this is an oil perfume, FCO. > again, thank you > > Ragna > The oil base may be part of your problem... I used an alcohol base as Gardenia really lives but it's light and luminosity...and the oil also tends to strengthen base notes and weaken top notes, so it's not a great choice for a light soliflore..... The base notes you have chosen, while nice, are not really ones that to my nose are part of a real gardenia, which is why they maybe aren't blending in so well.....(I've lost the post with the whole list of ingredients...if you want to send it to me privately maybe we can chat in more detail!) I don't really want to share the formula of my perfume here, obviously, but maybe you can get closer to what you want it you go back to the base and start matching individual oils with the mid notes to see which ones blend best with it and " match " them best.... Ambrosia http://perfumebynature.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 <The base notes you have chosen, while nice, are not really ones that to my nose are part of a real gardenia, which is why they maybe aren't blending in so well.....(I've lost the post with the whole list of ingredients...if you want to send it to me privately maybe we can chat in more detail!) I don't really want to share the formula of my perfume here, obviously, but maybe you can get closer to what you want it you go back to the base and start matching individual oils with the mid notes to see which ones blend best with it and " match " them best.... Ambrosia> Ambrosia,  I wouldn't dream of asking you your formula for your gardenia blend, but that being said, if one were going to make a gardenia perfume, what base notes would you suggest to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 <The base notes you have chosen, while nice, are not really ones that to my nose are part of a real gardenia, which is why they maybe aren't blending in so well.....(I've lost the post with the whole list of ingredients...if you want to send it to me privately maybe we can chat in more detail!) I don't really want to share the formula of my perfume here, obviously, but maybe you can get closer to what you want it you go back to the base and start matching individual oils with the mid notes to see which ones blend best with it and " match " them best.... Ambrosia> Ambrosia,  I wouldn't dream of asking you your formula for your gardenia blend, but that being said, if one were going to make a gardenia perfume, what base notes would you suggest to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 hi Ragna, your base sounds a little busy with other oils that in my opinion perhaps takes away the true sense of this gardenia soliflore but thats just my thoughts, plus i am thinking the bezoin will fix the vanilla and patchouli and the sandalwood will fix those and the base........ anyways, if i was compounding a gardenia soliflore, i would pre-fix my alcohol with gardenia and some ambergris, just a tiny amount of each to pre-fix the alcohol. you can also fix the top accord with some ambergris and let it age or ..... use some ambergris tincture to replace 30 to 40 percent of the alcohol in your final blend... um, gardenia abs, from china ... ?? can i ask what the color of it is and the consistency / viscosity? bruce > > Happy greetings perfumers, > I have been working on a gardenia perfume for....oh..over a year now. I thought I might as well ask for some guidance before I give up!! > I am using a natural gardenia absolute (China) and have finally found the dilution I am happy with...the heart also includes Jasmine, neroli and ylang, base is vanilla, sandalwood (mysore) Patchouli, benzoin. Top is citrus/green. > My dilemma is bridging... > The top is fabulous, but fades QUICK. the heart is lovely and fades QUICK, and the base is quite light without a hint of garndenia and fades in about 1 hr.!!!! > My goal is a soliflore...I'd like the gardenia to be present for at least 2 hr. I don't think I am being unrealistic (?) I'd love to hear any suggestions;-) > Many thanks! > > Ragna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 > > My goal is a soliflore...I'd like the gardenia to be present for at least 2 hr. I don't think I am being unrealistic (?) I'd love to hear any suggestions;-) > > > What ingredients are you using for your base? _________ I have a nice amount of Benzoin in the base and it is fairly light and devoid of any gardenia. It just may not be possible to extend the gardenia scent although hooking it up with ambergris may help!! Would love to experiment with that option at some point. Thank you for your help. Ragna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 > > > > > > >________________________ > > > > > Thank you Ambrosia, > > I remember reading about your gardenia scent. It sounds lovely and > > glad I'm glad you have a success working with this absolute. > > I have been fussing with this blend for-ever and I love it (but) > > ..I guess I am too demanding on the natural elements that I have to > > work with it,hoping I can " fix " what really isn't broken at all. > > Any suggestions on what I might add to the base to extend the gardenia? > > I might not be able to extend the longevity but if I could blend the > > gardenia into the base ...I would be happy and quite possible " done " > > with this creation. If that is possible;-) > > Btw, I did't mention that this is an oil perfume, FCO. > > again, thank you > > > > Ragna > > > The oil base may be part of your problem... > I used an alcohol base as Gardenia really lives but it's light and > luminosity...and the oil also tends to strengthen base notes and weaken > top you can get closer to what you want it you go back to the base > and start matching individual oils with the mid notes to see which ones > blend best with it and " match " them best.... > > Ambrosia > http://perfumebynature.blogspot.com >_________ I will re-visit the alcohol version. I had one started a while back and then I basically ran out of my grape alcohol, but didn't want to stop working on the blend. I think this may be the trick! I am holding back the enthusiasm I'm feeling at the moment and so glad I brought my dilemma to the " board " !!! I must learn to ask . for . help. What do you think of frankincense in the base and possible omit patchouli? I know it is hard to really " know " without a sniff but I also " know " that you (Ambrosia) and other seasoned perfumers have a sense of this. I appreciate your help! Ragna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 > > > > > > >________________________ > > > > > Thank you Ambrosia, > > I remember reading about your gardenia scent. It sounds lovely and > > glad I'm glad you have a success working with this absolute. > > I have been fussing with this blend for-ever and I love it (but) > > ..I guess I am too demanding on the natural elements that I have to > > work with it,hoping I can " fix " what really isn't broken at all. > > Any suggestions on what I might add to the base to extend the gardenia? > > I might not be able to extend the longevity but if I could blend the > > gardenia into the base ...I would be happy and quite possible " done " > > with this creation. If that is possible;-) > > Btw, I did't mention that this is an oil perfume, FCO. > > again, thank you > > > > Ragna > > > The oil base may be part of your problem... > I used an alcohol base as Gardenia really lives but it's light and > luminosity...and the oil also tends to strengthen base notes and weaken > top you can get closer to what you want it you go back to the base > and start matching individual oils with the mid notes to see which ones > blend best with it and " match " them best.... > > Ambrosia > http://perfumebynature.blogspot.com >_________ I will re-visit the alcohol version. I had one started a while back and then I basically ran out of my grape alcohol, but didn't want to stop working on the blend. I think this may be the trick! I am holding back the enthusiasm I'm feeling at the moment and so glad I brought my dilemma to the " board " !!! I must learn to ask . for . help. What do you think of frankincense in the base and possible omit patchouli? I know it is hard to really " know " without a sniff but I also " know " that you (Ambrosia) and other seasoned perfumers have a sense of this. I appreciate your help! Ragna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 > > > > > > hi Ragna, > > your base sounds a little busy with other oils that in my opinion > perhaps takes away the true sense of this gardenia soliflore > but thats just my thoughts, plus i am thinking the bezoin > will fix the vanilla and patchouli and the sandalwood will fix > those and the base........ > > anyways, if i was compounding a gardenia soliflore, i would pre-fix my alcohol with gardenia and some ambergris, just a tiny amount of each to pre-fix the alcohol. > > you can also fix the top accord with some ambergris and let it age > or ..... > use some ambergris tincture to replace 30 to 40 percent > of the alcohol in your final blend... > > um, gardenia abs, from china ... ?? > can i ask what the color of it is and the consistency / viscosity? > > bruce > > > ________ Hi Bruce, thanks for your suggestions! I guess it is time for me to make the leap and search out some ambergis. How long do you fix the alcohol for? What amount would you use per 100ml? The absolute is a thick brownish past that I have diluted to about 25%. I purchased it from the UK http://www.essentially-me.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=Gardenia_Abs Ragna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 > > > > > > hi Ragna, > > your base sounds a little busy with other oils that in my opinion > perhaps takes away the true sense of this gardenia soliflore > but thats just my thoughts, plus i am thinking the bezoin > will fix the vanilla and patchouli and the sandalwood will fix > those and the base........ > > anyways, if i was compounding a gardenia soliflore, i would pre-fix my alcohol with gardenia and some ambergris, just a tiny amount of each to pre-fix the alcohol. > > you can also fix the top accord with some ambergris and let it age > or ..... > use some ambergris tincture to replace 30 to 40 percent > of the alcohol in your final blend... > > um, gardenia abs, from china ... ?? > can i ask what the color of it is and the consistency / viscosity? > > bruce > > > ________ Hi Bruce, thanks for your suggestions! I guess it is time for me to make the leap and search out some ambergis. How long do you fix the alcohol for? What amount would you use per 100ml? The absolute is a thick brownish past that I have diluted to about 25%. I purchased it from the UK http://www.essentially-me.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=Gardenia_Abs Ragna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Hi Ragna, Thanks for sharing where you purchased the gardenia.....I've been wanting to buy that from them for a while. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 sorry about that top post, completely forgot... anyways, hi ragna, 30 days aging, or so should be fine for pre-fixing alcohol. poucher in some of his older work has some nice info on fixatives as well as pre-fixing alcohols. so 100ml of alcohol, maybe 1% of each, maybe less, it takes some experimenting, maybe start with, 0.25 to 0.5 ml of gardenia and 1 gr maybe of ambergris. you could put this on a stirrer for a week, maybe less to expedite the aging.... the ambergris will take on the gardenia odor, it will enhance it as well as exhault the notes and hold on to them / fix them, yes. if you don't have ambergris, you could use some of the other fixators, good for florals, tolu, benzoin, peru balsam, storax, or civet tincture. cheers bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 > > > Hey Bruce > Thanks for the reminder on these techniques. I even have things made up for the purpose but usually manage to forget about them. Memory, such a pericous, but forgotten tool ) > -Ross > hi ross, yes, that is so true, many times i have trouble finding my notes, :_( cheers bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 > > hi ragna, > > 30 days aging, or so should be fine for pre-fixing alcohol. > poucher in some of his older work has some nice info on fixatives > as well as pre-fixing alcohols. > > so 100ml of alcohol, maybe 1% of each, maybe less, > it takes some experimenting, > > maybe start with, 0.25 to 0.5 ml of gardenia > and 1 gr maybe of ambergris. > you could put this on a stirrer for a week, maybe less to > expedite the aging.... > > the ambergris will take on the gardenia odor, it will enhance it > as well as exhault the notes and hold on to them / fix them, yes. > > if you don't have ambergris, you could use some of the other fixators, > good for florals, > tolu, benzoin, peru balsam, storax, or civet tincture. > > _______ Bruce, Thanks for information! My alcohol (s) are " fixing " ...looking forward to using them in a month, or so. Ragna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 > Bruce, > Thanks for information! My alcohol (s) are " fixing " ...looking forward to using them in a month, or so. > Ragna > thanks ragna, please post your results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.