Teslar Watch - Response 3

[Guest guest]

Some of you may recall my critique of the website used to promote the " Teslar

watch " . Well, the compnay has just sent me a very long reply to all of my

comments. I shall share my response in a series of articles.

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PART 3

ELF Labs State Route 1, No 21. St. Francisville IL

ATT: Dr. Mell Siff Re: Answers to the Observations on Statements Dec19, 2002

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Response to Mel Siff:

To sum up then, since we as a species, lived on this planet before

electricity, we had no ambient fields to contend with that were man made,

only the natural cycles of the earth and astrological bodies in space. No one

said that there were no other signals, only that the Schuman Resonance was

what our bodies were accustomed to living within every day. Your statement

" This presumes that there was a time when there were no EM fields in the

universe...etc " is a presumption on your part. And you seem to agree when you

note the possibility of the brain rhythms being entrained to about the same

frequencies of the earth. So we presume that there is no controversy on this

subject. (Incidently Guy Playfair writes a little too woo-woo for your

scientific inclinations, right? We are surprised that you used him as a

reference.)

Regarding new ideas on the subject, actually our research is not stuck in the

old pyridine of electromagnetic fields, and we are aware of brain waves

varying when asleep, excited, violent, aroused, i.e. the theta range as well

as the beta range of brain wave activity. The brain is hooked up to the body,

so one would expect changes via activity through outside stimuli. This was

proven by the testing conducted way back in the 70's by Dr. Delgado

using outside weak electromagnetic fields to change brain wave activity. So

how is this new?

[*** Pyridine? Don't you mean 'paradigm'? Incidentally, you often cite that old

paradigm speculated upon by many earlier scientists who wrote about a far

wider spectrum of EM fields than have yet been mentioned in your

corroborating articles. Your mention of EEG activity falling only in the

range of theta and beta ignores a great deal of other activity which appears

in the very slow frequency or quasi-stationary range below delta (0.5 -4Hz)

and the ultrahigh frequency range far beyond beta activity. In other words,

your allegedly novel paradigm appears to be deficient in this regard, even

though scientists have known about such neural activity for many decades. I

would not be so ready to dismiss the allegedly old paradigm, since many

secrets may still appear to be lurking in that territory.

As far as I know Dr Delgado used invasive electrical stimulation of certain

brain regions. Please cite references which showed that he carried out

electromagnetic stimulation research on the brain. Anyway, several scientists

such as Dr Barnothy (1964), RO Becker (all the 1960s), Friedman (1966), and

Ravitz (1959) were investigating the interaction between electromagnetic

fields and the body years before Delgado. Mel Siff]

However, NEW and exciting is the study of information which is just starting

to rattle the scientific community, and that is these changes in frequency

are NOT a physical connection or knee jerk reaction of the body's mental and

emotional state to other biological systems.

[*** Exactly who is being 'rattled' by this new paradigm? If this rattling

is becoming so prominent, why is it so difficult to find many peer-reviewed

articles on the 'new' paradigm, whatever that term may mean? Scientists have

long been aware of the effect of different types of EM and other fields on

biological organisms, but they are not yet convinced that one needs to invoke

processes such as quantum electrodynamics, gravitational scalar fields and

superstring entities to explain the underlying processes. If anything, the

flagrant misuse of genuine science by 'alternative' healers is what

'rattles' scientists - they are not at all concerned about some great and

innovative discoveries, but are far more perturbed that pseudoscience is

being used to explain phenomena to a generally naive public. Mel Siff]

The frequency is actually a resonant information connection that flows from

one field to the other. When this information interacts, it creates a

biological response. This mechanism of action is based on our associate's

work, Dr. Hunt, when she was at UCLA on the mindfield interaction

with biological processes. Through computer fractal computations we can now

view these changes in real time on video in frequency and resonance. Even the

harmonic component is shown in layers, and alters upon interaction with other

biological systems including food, environment, pets, plants, etc. We are not

a body with a field; we are a field with a body!

[*** Fractal computations generally are very simple formulae which can

produce impressive complexity with a bare minimum of programming and are

really nothing special today. They are just another useful modelling tool

being used in science today. Invoking their use does not validate hypotheses

about the existence of gravitational scalar fields, quantum events in biol

ogical matter or the speculated existence of 'mind-fields'. Are you

stating that Dr Hunt carried out work which showed that biological fields or

external EM fields directly affect the way in which the mind functions? Did

her work also prove that such a thing called the 'mind-field' actually

exists as a discrete cognitive entity? If so, please quote the relevant

passages from her work so that we can ascertain if her ideas are not being

quoted out of context. Mel Siff]

Further research has extended this mindfield, biofield premise to its

interaction to the quantum, in that it is the living bioquantum itself. We

have included two books on the subject, one for the layman, and the other

with the science. Realizing that some of these premises are a stretch for

you, please understand that science does not advance by proof, as most people

believe.

[*** So, all those of us who went through many years of rigorous scientific

and mathematical education and postgraduate research should discard all of

those alleged proofs that we learned from the brightest minds in science? If

you mean that those books involve far too much stretch of my education and

intelligence, then I need to retire gracefully from this discussion

immediately, because it would appear that I am wading in far beyond my depth.

I shall then retire to allow other colleagues of mine to take up the baton

and carry on the analysis! Mel Siff]

It advances in coherency. Newton had no proof that the earth revolved around

the sun or that it moved at all, yet his 'laws' didn't make sense with out

the assumption that the earth revolved around the sun. Thus, even though his

laws allowed us to predict the outcome of an event, they were NOT based on

proof, but rather on coherency. Once we understand this principle, we can

realize that science's great success is based on a coherent view of nature,

and not on a detailed set of proofs. Proof is icing on the cake. Thus, a

belief in design, a plan is consistent with the true nature of science, even

if it falls short of proof.

[*** It would be a good idea to read a few of numerous excellent classic

works on the philosophy of science to examine the validity of this argument.

I can offer nothing much which enhances what such texts already cover. Mel

Siff]

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5. Observation on Siff Statement:

Including this information creates the impression that all of the above

scientists were doing work which relates directly tot he design of this

watch, a technique that in persuasion is known as " appeal to authority " . All

that they quite here is correct, but it does not support the claims made

about the watch. If this tiny chip manages to cancel out some of the EM

fields of the earth, then let's see the peer reviewed studies. How does such

a small chip manage to produce such great EM output to counteract the

powerful EM fields of the earth? Why don't they mention how such a tiny

battery in a wrist watch can manage to achieve this remarkable effect? The

military would love to have a few larger chips fore [sic] obvious reasons.

Maybe they do have, but that is hidden from us by some Official Secrets

Act...right?

Answer to Observation:

Technically, Dr. Beck, Dr. Byrd, Dr. Puharich and Dr. Adamenko all had direct

input into the mechanism of the chip, and worked on this project personally

with other members of the ELF team. Dr O'Becker and Dr. Marino are

long time friends of the above group, but did not have direct input.

[*** It is clear that this group is not very familiar with the work of Dr

O Becker and his long-time research colleague Dr Marino, who did a

great deal of the early work on the electrical fields of the body, else they

would have known that Dr Becker is not Dr O'Becker. This is somewhat

tantamount to referring to Dr Albert Einstein as Dr Al Bert von Einstein.

Being friends with someone does not automatically make one part of the

extended research team. Mel Siff]

It was Dr. Andrija Puharich, MD, PhD, (Medical Doctor and Physicist) who

conceived the theory for the Teslar chip, invented the first coil and the

credit to a great extent belongs to him. Although, I understand your

perception, it is not true. Our statement is that they, " and many other

scientists conducted additional research into this phenomena and confirmed

its potential as a health hazard. " This has nothing to do with the Teslar,

only research into the hazards of ELF. The paragraph goes on to say... " In

late 1985, ELF International solved technical problems and developed a

" shielding chip. " This is true, and ELF International did use the scientists

outlined above. Dr. Adamenko worked solely for us for nearly three years.

[*** I have read some of Puharich's work over the years, such as his 'Beyond

Telepathy', 'The Sacred Mushroom' and 'Uri' (on his work with Uri Geller).

In which text did his ideas on the Teslar coil appear? Mel Siff]

How this tiny chip with hardly any electrical power works biologically is

explained in #1 above. However, for detailed information regarding the chip

itself, let me refer you to Oct 24, 2002, Nature the International Weekly

Journal of Science, p. 818, " Observation of Coupled Magnetic and Electric

Domains " , by M Flebig, Institut fur Physik, Dortmund Germany, and the Max

Born Institute, Berlin Germany; Th Lettermoser, Institute fur Physik,

Dortmund, Germany; D. Frohlich, Institut fur Physik, Dortmund, Germany; A

Gattsev, Joffe Physical Technical Institute of the Russian Academy of

Science, St. sburg, Russia; and RV Pisarov also of the Joffe Physical

Technical Institute of the Russian Academy of Science.

[*** I have no access to these documents and would appreciate receiving them

of possible, so that I can comment in an informed and objective manner on

their contents. Do these articles refer specifically to the Teslar device?

Mel Siff]

This recently published paper explains the coupled electric and magnetic

ordering in ferroelectromagnets, and the cross correlation between magnetic

and electric domains as demonstrated in the Teslar chip. The coupling

originates from the interaction between magnetic and electric domain walls,

which leads to a configuration that is dominated y the ferroelectromagnetic

product of the order parameters. The FEM manganites RMnO33 with RE

(SC,Y,IN,HO-LU) are multiple order parameter compounds with four 180 degree

domains denoted by (+P,+I), (+P,-I), (-P,+I), (-P,-I). Here + -P is the

independent component of the ferroelectric (FEL) order parameter, a polar

vector, which is invariant under time reversal and describes the breaking of

the inversion symmetry due to the FEL polarization along the hexagonal z axis

below the Curie temperature Tc=570-990K. On the other hand, plus or minus, is

the independent component of the antiferromagnetic (AFM) under parameter, a

third rank axial tensor, which is not invariant under time reversal, thus

describing the breaking of time reversal symmetry by the triangular AFM

ordering of the MN spins in the basal xy plane below the Neel temperature

Tn=70-139Kdegrees. Without disclosing a company trade secret as to the actual

components of this chip, this is the basic structure and how it actuates the

scalar perimeters.

This paper actually establishes the same conclusion that we did in explaining

the relationship of the chip to the watch and how it works, as experiments

have shown it is possible to transition a system from one quantum state to

another with external forces consisting of time varying (pulsed) additions to

the potential energy. The non linearity and probabilistic nature of the

process allows for changes of information. The results are not measurable,

and therefore, by definition, are outside the realm of science because

science requires measurement. However, even though these non hertzian wave

forms are not measurable we can see the effect of the scalar interacting with

the body systems by the EEG Fast Fourier Analysis, EAV testing, and In-vitro

tests conducted by Dr. Rein (all enclosed). Quantum mechanics states that we

cannot describe reality in terms of absolute differential equations of any

kind, but rather, in terms of the probability of the occurrence of a physical

reality.

Theory does not come inductively only from experience. Logical thinking is

deductive and it is rash to think that a confirmation of consequences would

spring from it. The dilemma is that no inductive method of thinking can lead

to the fundamental concepts of physics (or anything else). Only a combination

can provider the synergy necessary experiences suggest theory and vice versa.

A new approach should be based on the notion that field gives rise to matter,

not the other way around.

In the Teslar, 'propagation' of scalars is independent of the two physical

quantities electric permitivity and magnetic permeability (which are linked

to the speed of light); and we have found that scalar information is not

limited to the speed of light. Scalar potential carrying scalar information

can piggy back on EM waves, thus slowing down the feeling or effect of the

watch to 3x108cm/sec. These fields were first described by the great

mathematician, Diroc.

[*** As far as I am aware, there has been no great mathematician by the name

of Diroc, though there has been a great physicist by the name of Dirac.

I am most intrigued to know why so many errors are being made when reference

is being made to various scientists whose work seems to being used

prolifically to validate Teslar claims. This will come across to many

scientists that the Teslar material is being written by those who are simply

quoting popularised science from trendy magazine articles or websites and

have little actual scientific familiarity with the original scientific work.

This may seem trivial to some, but these scientific clues can reveal a great

deal about anyone who is making claims about the meaning and applications of

science. This circumstantial evidence is a very disturbing aspect of the

Teslar information package and the message seems to come through loud and

clear that we will easily be able to convince critics if we make the

information appear to be technically as impressive as possible. Bear in mind

that there are many of us whom work in science who immediately see red flags

everywhere when we are exposed to that form of persuasive writing.

Credibility lies more in admitting to one's limitations, stating that " we

have something which works but do not understand why " , and seeking help from

genuine science.

This voluminous answer to my earlier criticisms only serves to exacerbate the

situation and confirm what I suspected earlier that there is far more

obfuscation than genuine science involved. Maybe the Teslar works, but

nothing of any verifiable substance has been offered to validate any claims.

Possibly I am sounding unduly harsh, but we simply cannot let pseudoscience

(like that of Deepak Chopra, Quantum Healing, etc) masquerade as genuine

science, especially if it is being used to market some product which carries

some very impressive claims. Mel Siff]

In the case of the double chip Teslar the superposition of the two scalar

fields, not EM or potential fields, and is therefore stronger. By strength

this is not to be confused with power transmission - only information

transfer. Information can be transmitted, such as the 7-9 oscillating

frequency of the Teslar, and detected by some process like electron

interferometry. And as stated before, biological systems are highly non

linear and also can detect and interact with scalars. Because all 'matter' is

electromagnetic phenomena, there is an inter connectedness through the scalar

fields. All biological organisms communicate with each other, and therefore

affect each other.

[*** This is more guruspeak and some of us have read it over and over in many

alternative healing contexts - please state in clear terms exactly how this

relates directly to the structure and function of the Teslar device.

Consider what other scientists have written about these speculative 'scalar'

fields:

Gravity and the Tenacious Scalar Field

Carl H. Brans

Contribution to Festscrift volume for Englebert Schucking

" Scalar fields have had a long and controversial life in gravity theories,

having progressed through many deaths and resurrections. The first scientific

gravity theory, Newton's, was that of a scalar potential field, so it was

natural for Einstein and others to consider the possibility of incorporating

gravity into special relativity as a scalar theory. This effort, though

fruitless in its original intent, nevertheless was useful in leading the way

to Einstein's general relativity, a purely two-tensor field theory. However,

a universally coupled scalar field again appeared, both in the context of

Dirac's large number hypothesis and in 5 dimensional unified field theories

as studied by Fierz, Jordan, and others. While later experimentation seems

to indicate that, if such a scalar exists, its influence on solar system size

interactions is *negligible*, other reincarnations have been proposed under

the guise of dilatons in string theory and inflatons in cosmology. " Mel

Siff]

As described in #1, Bohm in England described in 1975, a subtle effect

when both E and B fields were non existent. When the fields are zero, there

are no physical results observed because there is no physical energy flow.

However, when E and B fields are zero, under certain conditions (as outlined

above) their sources (their scalar potential, Vm, and the magnetic vector

potential, A) can produce physical consequences. The servable is the

probability density of electron phase shifts occurring under the influence of

potential fields which no magnetic or electric forces exist. This effect has

been demonstrated by a number of experiments (Aharonov, Bohm, Chambers,

Jaklevie, Lanke, Olariu and Popescu). Because there is no energy transfer to

objects when the electric and magnetic fields collapse to zero, A fields are

decoupled from E and B and become scalars which permeate all objects and

transfer information, instantaneously. This makes detecting them with current

available instrumentation virtually impossible. We know how to create it, but

cannot measure it, only its effect.

For further study and information you may want to refer to

Einstein, A. Ideas and Opinions, 1954, Bonanza Books;

Silletto, R. Non Relativistic Quantum Mechanics, 1960, Quadrangle Books,

Chicago, Illinois;

Konopinski, E. " What the Electromagnetic Potential Describes " , May 1978,

American Journal of Physics, p 46 (5);

Aharonov, Y & Bohm, D, " Significance of Electromagnetic Potentials in the

Quantum Theory, 1959 Physics Review, Vol 115, p 485-491;

Chambers, R., " Shift of an Electron Interference Pattern by Enclosed Magnetic

Flux " 1960, Physics Review Letter, Vol5, p 3-5;

Saklivic R., Lanke, A., Mercerou, J, " Quantum Interference from a Static

Vector Potential in a Field Free Region " , 1964 Physics Review Letter, Vol 12,

p 274-275.

[*** I own a few of those books and articles. Please quote the precise

extracts which you are using to substantiate various specific Teslar claims

and show precisely how they relate to the structure and function of the T

eslar device. Actually you could also have added Bohm's book,

'The Implicate Order' to this list, since this offers a lot more than the

more abstruse Aharanov & Bohm journal article which you did cite. Mel Siff]

6. Observation on Siff Statement:

More word play that tells us nothing of any value. I went to the research

section of the website but found nothing there but a blank page. Like that

other different type of portable vibrator we discussed a few weeks ago, this

site seems to have been set up in a hurry just to sell to the gullible

masses, but not to offer any genuine corroborating evidence.

Answer to Observation:

Unfortunately, the Philip Stein Site is a new marketing company and did not

have the scientific evidence up on their site. We apologize for this over

site and you should have been directed to the Teslar site www.teslar.com. To

answer this observation, please note the bottom of your own observation on

statement #4... " Frequent oscillations allows the signal to stay biologically

interactive. This is important because some systems within the body will

acclimate to stimuli that stay constant for any given period of time. " Your

statement at the end of Observation #4 contradicts your Observation #6.

Being that you are a doctor, of course you are aware of the significance of

pulsed electromagnetic fields in non ionizing bone fractures, and all of the

work done by the Germans in this regard.

[*** Firstly, I am not a medical doctor, but a physicist and applied

mathematician who enjoyed doing something or other to earn an applied

mathematics Masters in brain research and a PhD in physiology. I assume that

you are referring to 'non-union' fractures, because there is no such thing

as 'non-ionizing' bone fractures. I am very familiar with the use of pulsed

EM fields and facilitation of non-union fractures, which was first reported

to the general public in the New Scientist about 4 decades ago. Mel Siff]

A passive field does NOT oxygenate, where a pulsed electromagnetic field does

such in all biological systems. For instance, magnets which are passive

fields in themselves, create endorphins, and therefore MASK pain; but if worn

for long periods of time the pain comes back as the body overrides the

passive signal. There are tons of research on the heightened effects of

active fields over passive fields, besides the overwhelming logic seen in so

many experiments, the most accepted and well known is bone healing. We are

pulsing resonant beings and a pulsed field simply moves into sympathetic

resonance like a tuning fork.

[*** Magnetic fields do not create endorphins. Many different endogenous and

exogenous events and even physical activity can facilitate the secretion of

endogenous hormones in the body, but there is scant evidence that elevations

in their levels in the blood means that endorphins or enkephalins actually

cross the blood-brain barrier. All of this commentary is speculative. Mel

Siff]

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END OF PART 3

Dr Mel C Siff

Denver, USA

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Supertraining/

* Kindly sign all letters with full name and city if you

wish them to be published

[Guest guest]

I just couldnt pass this up--

Mel Siff writes:

<< [*** Exactly who is being 'rattled' by this new paradigm? If this rattling

is becoming so prominent--(much good snipped)--they are not at all concerned

about some great and

innovative discoveries, but are far more perturbed that pseudoscience is

being used to explain phenomena to a generally naive public. Mel Siff]

Telle--

(-; Well Mel, I think they have you rattled1! ;-}

Teslar (in small part)

The frequency is actually a resonant information connection that flows from

one field to the other. When this information interacts, it creates a

biological response. >>

Telle--

So does electric shock therapy--including the " electric chair!! "

What a riot!

Jerry Telle

lakewood CO USA