Re: Suppliers for Animal-sourced Ingredients

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I was curious if anyone could suggest great suppliers for:

Deer Musk

Civet

Goat Musk

Hyraceum

Ambergris

And any other animal fixatives that you can think of.

Many thanks!

~JK

***************************************

 

Hi JK,

 

One of the first places I would suggest checking out is Profumo

http://www.profumo.it/perfume/home_english.htm

 

They have many finished animal tinctures available as well as kits to make your

own.

They cary Civet, Castoreum, Bee, Hyraceum, and Ambergris.

 

For specifics:

 

Ambergris-

http://www.ambergris.co.nz/

http://www.ambergristincture.com/index.php

 

The first site sells raw ambergris, the second prepared tinctures.  I purchased

the raw ambergris and cannot even begin to describe how wonderful they were to

work with and how generous they are with their product.

 

Civet-

Profumo that I mentioned above sells a kit to make your own as well as the

finished tincture.  I purchased a small amount through The Perfumer's Apprentice

that came from the Profumo stock if I recall correctly and it is beautiful.

 

Deer Musk-

I don't think you are going to find this, and if you do I would really enourage

you away from it.  The deer have been driven to the brink of extinction.  Much

of the product that is out there is adulterated at best and fake even more

often.  It is also a product banned by CITES which makes it illegal to trade in

in most countries.

 

Goat Musk-

This one is a toughie.  Though it can be safely produced without harm to the

animal, it is really pretty new and hasn't been produced on a wide scale. 

Probably my best suggestion would be contacting local ranches or farms who have

goats and ask if you can get hair clippings.  I searched long and hard on this

one before I was lucky enough to get some hair to tincture.

 

Hyraceum-

http://africanaromatics.com/wordpress/?page_id=246

A contributor on this group, a wonderful blogger, and a natural perfumer to

boot, Sophia of African Aromatics offers a beautiful Hyraceum that tinctures

amazingly.  I love ordering with Sophia, she is a real treasure.  She carries

some amazing resins as well that I would recommend highly, but those aren't

specifically the animal ingredients you were asking about.

 

I hope that helps you in sourcing.  Animal products are not always very popular

for various reasons that are understandable, but they do have amazing qualities

in perfumes for those who are comfortable using them and skilled at it.

 

[Guest guest]

 

Hello,

I was curious if anyone could suggest great suppliers for:

Deer Musk

Civet

Goat Musk

Hyraceum

Ambergris

And any other animal fixatives that you can think of.

Many thanks!

~JKYou can find Ambergris, Civit, Castoreum, and Hyraceum at www.profumo.it

You can get Ambergris at www.scentsualantiquities.comwww.aftelier.com

Has Hyraceum(called Africa Stone Tincture)I don't know where you can get deer

musk.  It's really rare and I'm sure very expensive and the deer are

endangered.I'm not sure where you can find goat musk either.

[Guest guest]

Hunters supply outlets are generally a common source for some good animal musks.

There are some great ones to find in Oregon who take pride in their wares.

[Guest guest]

Hello,

for Ambergris and Hyrax see also Trygve in New York

http://enfleurage.com.

Though every Parfumeur should know, how Musk smells, we should not use it! Only

a dead Musk deer can deliver this substance and there have remained only a few

of this species on this planet. There exists a film about the Musk deer - you

should see it! Also the female must die, though they have no musk...

Greetings

Angelika

[Guest guest]

Thanks , for the recommendation.

Sophia

[Guest guest]

Musk grains can be purchased legally in only a handful of countries including

China and Japan.

The quality varies a lot. In Japan, you can expect to pay at least $120 per

gram.

Yuko

Parfum Phyto

[Guest guest]

>

> Hunters supply outlets are generally a common source for some good animal

musks.

Hi All,

The musks supplied by the hunter and trapper outlets are sold as animal

lures and are synthetic as well as being made with base materials such

as propylene glycol (anti-freeze) and are not suitable for fragrance

applications. Some Musk Deer populations have returned to over

population in certain countries and CITIES has removed these populations

class 1 endangered to class 2 status. Russia now has a legal deer

hunting season and CITIES has a 3000 Kilo export of Musk Pods from the

Siberian/Kabarga regions and I know of at least 1 CITIES License issued

for the legal sale of deer musk in the USA since the beginning of 2011.

These are facts and can be checked on the CITIES website. So the good

news is the deer are on the return. The bad news is some populations

have out grown the land to support them and now face death from

starvation. The real problem is bigger than the legend and not a simple

solution is in sight. There are no kill sources of musk and they have

been in place for some time now. The poachers still abound however and

CITIES made an arrest late last year which resulted in the saving of

many lives. The confiscated pods have been sold by CITIES to licensed

agents and the proceeds go to support the efforts to police the herds.

It is a complex situation and extremists on both sides of the fence do

more harm than good in the long run. But the facts are there for all to

read if they care to be truly informed. Those of you who know me and

know my work are aware that I have wrestled with this issue for most of

my life now and I still see no resolution to the problems facing not

only the Musk Deer but all of the animals. Our planet is in trouble and

there is no easy solution. On either extreme animals will die. The no

kill and CITIES pods do support the protection of the healthy herds and

arrest of poachers. It is a delicate issue each person must decide for

themselves after knowing the facts.

Best Wishes,

[Guest guest]

>I have wrestled with this issue for most of

> my life now and I still see no resolution to the problems facing not

> only the Musk Deer but all of the animals. Our planet is in trouble and

>there is no easy solution. On either extreme animals will die. The no

> kill and CITIES pods do support the protection of the healthy herds and

> arrest of poachers.

After reading my previous post I want to clarify that in referring to " herds " I

mean to say the total number of deer in a given region. Musk Deer are solitary

and do not move in herds the way other deer are known to do. This further

complicates the efforts to monitor and protect the various populations.

[Guest guest]

 

Hi All,

The musks supplied by the hunter and trapper outlets are sold as animal

lures and are synthetic as well as being made with base materials such

as propylene glycol (anti-freeze) and are not suitable for fragrance

applications. Some Musk Deer populations have returned to over

population in certain countries and CITIES has removed these populations

class 1 endangered to class 2 status. Russia now has a legal deer

hunting season and CITIES has a 3000 Kilo export of Musk Pods from the

Siberian/Kabarga regions and I know of at least 1 CITIES License issued

for the legal sale of deer musk in the USA since the beginning of 2011.

These are facts and can be checked on the CITIES website. So the good

news is the deer are on the return. The bad news is some populations

have out grown the land to support them and now face death from

starvation. The real problem is bigger than the legend and not a simple

solution is in sight. There are no kill sources of musk and they have

been in place for some time now. The poachers still abound however and

CITIES made an arrest late last year which resulted in the saving of

many lives. The confiscated pods have been sold by CITIES to licensed

agents and the proceeds go to support the efforts to police the herds.

It is a complex situation and extremists on both sides of the fence do

more harm than good in the long run. But the facts are there for all to

read if they care to be truly informed. Those of you who know me and

know my work are aware that I have wrestled with this issue for most of

my life now and I still see no resolution to the problems facing not

only the Musk Deer but all of the animals. Our planet is in trouble and

there is no easy solution. On either extreme animals will die. The no

kill and CITIES pods do support the protection of the healthy herds and

arrest of poachers. It is a delicate issue each person must decide for

themselves after knowing the facts.

Best Wishes,

Thanks for the post, Doug.   It was very informative.

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks for the post, Doug.   It was very informative.

My pleasure and thank you. I have dreaded broaching this topic for many

years as it is so emotionally charged. But after talking with the USA Licensee

last evening I decided it was the right time to update the record and hope I am

not crucified.

Best Wishes,

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>>

>> Hunters supply outlets are generally a common source for some good animal

musks.

>

> Hi All,

> The musks supplied by the hunter and trapper outlets are sold as animal

> lures and are synthetic as well as being made with base materials such

> as propylene glycol (anti-freeze) and are not suitable for fragrance

> applications.

Hi , Folks...

Probably the predominant species of deer in the US is the whitetail

deer...Many States have a hunting season, and from what I've been told,

one avoids the scent glands, when field dressing, for fear of ruining

the meat...I asked a buddy who's into it, and says one of his hunting

season pals saves the glands, for scent covering.......

Does anyone know if this might be a viable source for fragrance use....?

I suspect there is a lot available in the fall of the year.....

--

W. Bourbonais

L'Hermite Aromatique

A.J.P. (GIA)

[Guest guest]

I have smelled the back side of the White Tail deer's knee wear it's musk

secreats and it smells not to bad. If I remember correct it was smokey and

musky.

[Guest guest]

> Hi , Folks...

>

> Probably the predominant species of deer in the US is the whitetail

> deer...

> Does anyone know if this might be a viable source for fragrance use....?

> I suspect there is a lot available in the fall of the year.....

> --

> W. Bourbonais

> L'Hermite Aromatique

> A.J.P. (GIA)

Hi ,

The whitetail and mule deer, both native to the USA, each have about 5 different

scent glands. Most if not all could find use in fragrance applications in the

right hands, despite the positions put forth last Nov. and Dec. as regards

Pheromones. And these are mostly what you would be dealing with from these deer.

I never got to post on the subject because the morning it all started my

computer was hit with a virus and was down until almost Feb.

Pheromones are properly called steroidal musks and are behavior modifiers and

regulators. They have little to do with rape which is the opposing views take on

how these materials should work if they were real. I don't know anyone or

anything that can or could make a rational mind commit rape, do you? I side with

Vaughn Kohl and his position makes perfect sense to me both as a fragrance

chemist and an undergraduate in Psychology and Cultural Anthropology. I have

done some pretty compelling tests with a number of different " pheromones " and

have watched people who knew nothing of what was being done respond to these

materials in a positive and expected manner. And, they are at the very least,

fragrance materials of a specific note and odor value so on that level alone

they are as valid to my thinking as rose or jasmine.

There are probably 2 or 3 of these glands which would warrant isolation and

further investigation such as GC and Mass Spec analysis. But it would take quite

a few glands I think to make it worth the time and expense. Beside the Tarsal

glands, the preorbital glands seem interesting as they specifically relate to

the deers social behavior. The later being a nurture scent that is used to mark

offspring and mates, the former is a dominance marker. I have some files on

these that if you email me off list I can send you and we can talk more about

it. I don't think a tincture would be advisable with them but isolation would be

worth looking at I suspect.

I hope that helps?

Best Wishes,

scentsualantiquities.com