Distilling Lavender in Oregon

[Guest guest]

----- " Anya's Garden Perfumes " wrote:

> It's still technically a lavender, . Lavandin is a common

> name, not a binomial nomenclature.

>

> Grosso means " big " and it's a very big plant

So now I'm totally confused. Do we have:

Lavender: Lavandula angustifolia

Lavender: Lavendula super

Lavender: Lavandula officinalis

Lavender: Lavendula sumian

Lavender: Lavendula abrialis

Lavender: Lavandula stoechas

Lavender: Lavandula latifolia

Lavender: Lavendula grosso

Lavender: Lavendula maillette

Lavender " Lavendula munstead

..... and many more.

How can I diferentiate the hybrids?

Can I buy seeds of all the above?

I have seen angustifolia seeds, and officinalis seeds.

I think we also have stoechas seeds.

Any vendor of L. grosso seeds?

[Guest guest]

>

> Quoting Steffan Arctander: " Lavandin is a hybrid plant, developed by crossing

the true Lavender plant Lavandula officinalis with the aspic or " spike " lavender

Lavandula latifolia. The resulting plant is called Lavandula hybrida, and exists

in a great number of forms (varieties), ... " This where you get the varieties of

Lavandin grosso and Lavandin super, to name a couple. No offense, but

technically, Lavender grosso is a misnomer. I do not know what 'grosso' means.

Anyone out there to answer this?

>

Botanically speaking, all Lavandulas are lavenders, and Lavandula x 'Grosso' is

a lavender. The common name is Lavandin. There is a whole system of latin

nomenclature to describe plants because common names can very from place to

place, which is why it is good to know the botanic name of the oil in question

you are using. Lavandula is a genus level name. Angustifolia is a species name.

'Hidcote' or 'Grosso' are variety names. Botanic names are listed as genus

first, capitalized, then species, not capitalized, then variety, if there is

one, in singular quotes, so: Lavandula angustifolia 'Hidcote'. In the case of

Lavandula x 'Grosso', where there is an x where the species name goes, that

means it is a gross between two different species within the genus.

What Arctander is calling true lavender is Lavandula officinalis, but that only

means that is the " true " lavender of his perfume trade, not a botanical term.

There are probably at least 10 different lavandulas species, and tens of

varieties, if not hundreds, you just wouldn't want to use them all for perfume.

[Guest guest]

> ----- " Anya's Garden Perfumes " wrote:

>

>> It's still technically a lavender, . Lavandin is a common

>> name, not a binomial nomenclature.

>>

>> Grosso means " big " and it's a very big plant

> So now I'm totally confused. Do we have:

>

> Lavender: Lavandula angustifolia

> Lavender: Lavendula super

> Lavender: Lavandula officinalis

> Lavender: Lavendula sumian

> Lavender: Lavendula abrialis

> Lavender: Lavandula stoechas

> Lavender: Lavandula latifolia

> Lavender: Lavendula grosso

> Lavender: Lavendula maillette

> Lavender " Lavendula munstead

>

> .... and many more.

>

> How can I diferentiate the hybrids?

> Can I buy seeds of all the above?

>

> I have seen angustifolia seeds, and officinalis seeds.

> I think we also have stoechas seeds.

>

> Any vendor of L. grosso seeds?

Maybe check with a botany yahoo group for details? They'll help

you with the grunt work of the questions you asked. Google would

help you a lot.

Anya McCoy

http://AnyasGarden.com

http://PerfumeClasses.com

http://NaturalPerfumers.com

[Guest guest]

> > I have seen angustifolia seeds, and officinalis seeds.

> > I think we also have stoechas seeds.

> >

> > Any vendor of L. grosso seeds?

>

> Maybe check with a botany yahoo group for details? They'll help

> you with the grunt work of the questions you asked. Google would

> help you a lot.

OK, ..

-= CB =-

[Guest guest]

I've just had to reject several posts that are really off-topic.

They're regarding botany and not perfumery. Distilling lavender

in Oregon is the topic, and questions about the plants are

pertinent, as they relate to perfumery. Please keep on-topic for

a perfumery group, thanks so much.

Anya McCoy

http://AnyasGarden.com

http://PerfumeClasses.com

http://NaturalPerfumers.com

[Guest guest]

I've just had to reject several posts that are really off-topic.

They're regarding botany and not perfumery. Distilling lavender

in Oregon is the topic, and questions about the plants are

pertinent, as they relate to perfumery. Please keep on-topic for

a perfumery group, thanks so much.

Anya McCoy

http://AnyasGarden.com

http://PerfumeClasses.com

http://NaturalPerfumers.com

[Guest guest]

I'm hearing from people that Maillette has a very nice aroma. I planted a couple

this year so they are not blooming yet. I might have to add more of those. Have

you distilled it separately? A fellow grower here lost her entire lavender crop

this year, all the plants died. She guesses they are at the end of their life

cycle - so its good that you are replacing some.

http://www.sagescript.com

[Guest guest]

>

> I've just had to reject several posts that are really off-topic.

> They're regarding botany and not perfumery. Distilling lavender

> in Oregon is the topic, and questions about the plants are

> pertinent, as they relate to perfumery. Please keep on-topic for

> a perfumery group, thanks so much.

>

Hi Folks....

I guess all I can say about this is it seems to have become fashionable

to call things whatever one wishes, for whatever reason...

You sell me lavandin in place of lavender, I will be upset...I don't

care where it comes from....

I expect upfront and honesty, with the folks I deal with...Simple as

that...No playing games with Genus...

I guess I'm old school....<G>...!

--

W. Bourbonais

L'Hermite Aromatique

A.J.P. (GIA)

[Guest guest]

I'm so intrigued by this pink lavender!  It sounds incredible.  I would love to

smell it.

[Guest guest]

> What Arctander is calling true lavender is Lavandula officinalis, but that

only means that is the " true " lavender of his perfume trade, not a botanical

term. There are probably at least 10 different lavandulas species, and tens of

varieties, if not hundreds, you just wouldn't want to use them all for perfume.

>

" Officinalis " refers to medicinal plants. See link:

http://www.piam.com/mms_garden/officinalis.html

Does Arctander refer specifically to this group? I don't have my copy handy to

check. I imagine Lavandula officinalis would tend to smell camphoraceous, since

it is the medicinal variety.

Maggie

[Guest guest]

>

> Are you sure it's Lavender? What does Grosso mean?

>

Hi There,

So from what I have gathered, there are several strains of " Grosso " on the world

market, most of which are very camphorous in odor and preferred for

aromatherapy. However, the true, original " Grosso " strain is almost completely

camphor-free and yields relatively large quantities of oil. It is very

important that whne you buy your lavender plants you buy them from a grower or

better yet a breeder who has carefully keyed out their plants and kept their

strains separate. The " Grosso " I purchased came from The VanHelevingen's

nursery in Newberg Oregon - Andy and Vanhelevingen bred " " and

many other lovely varieties that thrive in our damp climate. According to Andy

and the grosso that they sell is the true grosso which they brought here

from France. It is truly a different creature than the other " Grosso " varieties

I have picked up from various nurseries. Its easy for lavender strains to get

mixed up when their flowers look so similar and foiliage can be almost

identical.

If you are interested in buying the true " Grosso " strain I speak of, Sara Bader,

of Lavender at Stonegate (another Oregon Nursery) sells and ships over 100

different varieties of lavender and she stocks her Grosso and her pink lavenders

(, Hidcote Pink) from the VanHelevingens. She is very knowledgable about

her plants and lovely to work with, and she keeps very good track of which

plants are which!

Kindly,

Jess Ring

Green Ring Botanicals

[Guest guest]

> >

>

> Your extractions sound heavenly. I really enjoyed reading your post and

learned a lot. You should consider maintaining a blog where you can chronicle

your distillation experiments and successes. I would be the first to follow

you!

> Maggie

>

Dear Maggie,

Nice to hear from you again! Thank you for the sweet compliment...every month I

tell myself I will set up my blog and website, and then every month I get swept

off by some new harvest or distillation, someone tells me about strange tree

oozing aromatic pitch and there I go again! I did just finish compiling my

photos from the last years of planting the perfume farm, learning to distill,

wildcrafting, tincturing, perfume blending, ect. Feeling really good about the

website - found the perfect person to put it together and help me maintain it.

Got some lovely pics last night of my moonlit lavender distillation, but man, am

I ever tired!

Take care and thanks for the encouragement...it helps me right now.

Aromatically,

Jess Ring

Green Ring Botanicals

[Guest guest]

I only distill wee amounts for hydrosols, mostly rose geranium. Rose geranium

seems to love being potted and thrives with a little Epsom salt occasionally in

the water. I'm itching to plant witch hazel this fall in a shady area.

>

> Is there a list just for distilling?

>

> Lori Curry - McGaheysville, VA

> www.magellansgift.wordpress.com

Dear Lori,

I would love to hear more about the geranium you distill - haven't doen that one

yet because it leaches so much copper from my still - need that stainless steel

disitller! ahhhh, the witch hazel is also on my list - thought it might go

nicely with the corn flowers I have blooming blue everywhere...but the witch

hazel looks pretty sad so I might wait till next year, plus I got a mountain of

lavender to distill and actually have no right even sitting here typing when I

should be working!

We should rally Dabney Rose, Marcia Elston, and some of those other

awesome distillers to start a distillers group on yahoo...it would be ever so

helpful.

Hope you have a beautiful day and please tell me more about the epsom salts in

the geranium water and how you happened on this great idea.

Kindly,

Jess Ring

Green Ring Botanicals

Portland OR, USA

>

[Guest guest]

>

> How can I diferentiate the hybrids?

> Can I buy seeds of all the above?

>

> I have seen angustifolia seeds, and officinalis seeds.

> I think we also have stoechas seeds.

>

> Any vendor of L. grosso seeds?

I would contact Sara Bader at Lavender at Stonegate in Oregon, USA. She is a

wealth of information on the subject as she grows, sells, and ships over 120

varieties of lavender.

I just posted a note about " Grosso " that has some more info in it, but I think

it would be better to plant grosso from cuttings as opposed to seed. With seed

plantings you never know what you are going to get, and I would imagine that you

would end up with a lot of very camphor- rich plants. Sara Bader, of Lavender

at Stonegate, carries a gorgeous, virtually camphor-free strain of Grosso

brought over here from france by the VanHevelingens. this particular strain is

still high yielding but has a very beautiful boquet that is similar to the

higher quality augustifolias. She would also be able to recomend the best book

to key out lavender - there are a couple of different texts you could use.

Growing lavender from seed can be fun too, but you need some land to make it

work - we put in a 1/4 acre of munstead grown from seed after hearing that the

oil produced is gorgeous due to all the genetic variation in the crop. I am

also searching through these little plants for the most aromatic " Munstead " I

can find and then propagate from for our own special Munstead strain.

Nichols Garden Nursery sells a variety of high quality lavender seeds. They are

also located in OR.

Kindly,

Jess Ring

[Guest guest]

Hi,

just jumping in, I'm very curious about analyses of the different

lavender oils you all distill in the USA.

I just gave some workshops here and distilled my own lavender from my

garden. I have a " Lavande population " , from seeds I found on more than 1400 m

high where the French high altitude lavender grows.

I'm curious about the differences in the components, since I just made a

comparison between the contents of 1,8 cineol, camphor, linalol, linalyl

acetate, lavandulyl acetate, terpine-4-ol in the following oils:

-french high altitude lavender oil (above 1400 m, alpes de haute provence)

-french " lavande population (also know as " lavande fine " )

The term " population refers to plants coming from seed, as opposed to

clonal plants, we usually preferr such population plants, having a

sweeter fragrance, stronger and more resistant as clones.

-French maillette lavender (clonal)

-French matheronne lavender (clonal)

-Lavandin abrialis

Lavandin super

Lavandin grosso

Lavandula latifolia " Alpes de Haute Provence "

Comparing the so called Lavandula stoechas has no real meaning here,

it's too different from all lavenders

(just a bunch of cineol and fenchone in it, smelling like an old male goat)

;-)

Just don't know how to put my results in a readable manner on this

mailing list,

regards from France,

Michel Vanhove

[Guest guest]

Hope I not going off topic - so I'll keep it short!

I haven't noticed any leaching yet in my copper still, I will have to watch for

it. You've got me worried.

I bought some very sick pale rose geraniums out of desperation and tried

everything to revive them. I googled growing rose geraniums and found several

suggestions of adding 1 teaspoon of epson salts per gallon of water every 10 or

so waterings. I saw major improvement overnight! It also improves their smell.

For pot grown plants I'm really please with them. Several farmers have told me

it sweetens melons too.

Last Saturday I was invited for next spring to pick wild elder flowers on a

nearby farm! I no expert on distilling or growing, but I sure love the

journey.

Lori Curry

www.magellansgift.wordpress.com

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Hope I not going off topic - so I'll keep it short!

>

> I haven't noticed any leaching yet in my copper still, I will have to watch

for it. You've got me worried.

>

> I bought some very sick pale rose geraniums out of desperation and tried

everything to revive them. I googled growing rose geraniums and found several

suggestions of adding 1 teaspoon of epson salts per gallon of water every 10 or

so waterings. I saw major improvement overnight! It also improves their smell.

For pot grown plants I'm really please with them. Several farmers have told me

it sweetens melons too.

>

> Last Saturday I was invited for next spring to pick wild elder flowers on a

nearby farm!

>

> Lori Curry

> www.magellansgift.wordpress.com

Dear Lori,

I am going to go give my sad little geraniums some epsom water right now! Makes

sense that certain plants would benefit from the magnesium in the salts...I

believe magnesium is at the center of the chlorophyll molecule. So as far as

the copper-leaching goes, you can tell by the color of the oil - turns bright

green with copper - the oil can be treated with citric acid to bind and

precipitate out the copper....not so easy with the hydrosol though, since the

citric acid dissolves in water. I've distilled eucalyptus and several

varieties of pine that have leached copper from my still - treated the oil with

citric acid by " washing " it several times...not sure how I feel about the whole

process since I cant find good data on how much copper is left behind after the

washing....I'm not exactly a purist, but I am wary about the residual copper in

the oil. Many of the oils that come out of China and India are distilled in

copper or iron and are treated with citric acid. Anyone in the group familiar

with this process? Anyone know how to remove copper from a hydrosol in some

simple manner?

Oh and Lori, I love elderflowers! They smell like rootbeer and the infused oil

makes a great perfume base, but this I'm sure you know. You could even try

making a solid perfume base - fractionated coconut and beeswax - and enfleurage

them right into the base, they like that. Have a beautiful time harvesting!

Kindly,

Jess Ring

>

[Guest guest]

If to remain, Tartaric acid, else Citric acid in a tea bag cloth while stirring

and clear.

Then filter (press).

[Guest guest]

> Dear Lori,

> I would love to hear more about the geranium you distill - haven't doen that

one yet because it leaches so much copper from my still - need that stainless

steel disitller! ahhhh, the witch hazel is also on my list - thought it might

go nicely with the corn flowers I have blooming blue everywhere...but the witch

hazel looks pretty sad so I might wait till next year, plus I got a mountain of

lavender to distill and actually have no right even sitting here typing when I

should be working!

>

> We should rally Dabney Rose, Marcia Elston, and some of those

other awesome distillers to start a distillers group on yahoo...it would be ever

so helpful.

>

> Hope you have a beautiful day and please tell me more about the epsom salts in

the geranium water and how you happened on this great idea.

>

> Kindly,

> Jess Ring

> Green Ring Botanicals

> Portland OR, USA

> >

>

There actually was a distillers list on yahoo a few years ago but it has been

dormant for years. It would be nice to be able to have more in depth discussions

about distilling.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi ,

> I replace weak or damaged plants each year with new strains - some standbys,

like Maillette, always do good and consistently produce high

> >

> Looking forward to hearing how your distillations go - you have a stainless

steel disitller, dont you? How are your roses doing? I found a native Nootka

Rose that has aromatic foliage...smells like green apples and slightly of fresh

clary sage leaves..cant wait to distill it next year!

>

> Kindly,

> Jess Ring

> green Ring Botanicals

>

,

I tend to mix my different cultivars together when distilling; both for lavender

and for roses. Otherwise, I just don't get enough for practical use. I've got a

few roses I bought specifically for scent that are supposedly from Bulgaria-

they are nice. The plants haven't gotten very big yet, I should maybe water them

more.

I haven't done alot of distilling yet this summer. I'm going to get lavender

going soon as well as lemon balm. I've done alot of catnip which I use in a

mosquito repellent and blue spruce. I'll probably do comfrey and chocolate mint

soon too.

I'd like to find something 'new' and exciting to distill. Oh, did I mention last

year I put all my tomato plants in the still and hops! Neither came out

interesting though. Alfalfa has such a nice aroma, I wonder how that would

distill.

I bought a box of plants from Stonegate this year. The prettiest is 'Fat Spike

Grosso'. I don't know what kind of smell it has though but the buds are a nice

dark blue. I'll have to go out and rub it to see how camphorous that is. I'd

like to put more in if they do well over the winter, but I'll also buy more

Maillette. Sometimes those cultivars that do well in Oregon don't do well here.

I think I had the Violet Intrigue a few years ago and it died over the winter.

http://www.sagescript.com

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi ,

> I replace weak or damaged plants each year with new strains - some standbys,

like Maillette, always do good and consistently produce high

> >

> Looking forward to hearing how your distillations go - you have a stainless

steel disitller, dont you? How are your roses doing? I found a native Nootka

Rose that has aromatic foliage...smells like green apples and slightly of fresh

clary sage leaves..cant wait to distill it next year!

>

> Kindly,

> Jess Ring

> green Ring Botanicals

>

,

I tend to mix my different cultivars together when distilling; both for lavender

and for roses. Otherwise, I just don't get enough for practical use. I've got a

few roses I bought specifically for scent that are supposedly from Bulgaria-

they are nice. The plants haven't gotten very big yet, I should maybe water them

more.

I haven't done alot of distilling yet this summer. I'm going to get lavender

going soon as well as lemon balm. I've done alot of catnip which I use in a

mosquito repellent and blue spruce. I'll probably do comfrey and chocolate mint

soon too.

I'd like to find something 'new' and exciting to distill. Oh, did I mention last

year I put all my tomato plants in the still and hops! Neither came out

interesting though. Alfalfa has such a nice aroma, I wonder how that would

distill.

I bought a box of plants from Stonegate this year. The prettiest is 'Fat Spike

Grosso'. I don't know what kind of smell it has though but the buds are a nice

dark blue. I'll have to go out and rub it to see how camphorous that is. I'd

like to put more in if they do well over the winter, but I'll also buy more

Maillette. Sometimes those cultivars that do well in Oregon don't do well here.

I think I had the Violet Intrigue a few years ago and it died over the winter.

http://www.sagescript.com

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I replace weak or damaged plants each year with new strains - some standbys,

like Maillette, always do good and consistently produce higher yields of

exquisite oil. always looking for newly released strains. Did 16 hrs of

disitlling the last two days and am bone tired. Discovered something fascinating

about the Buena Vista after this rainy rainy spring. I did a couple of " flowers

only " batches expecting my usual primo-sweet oil, instead the resultant oil was

mediocre and 1/2 the normal yield. Got bummed out until I distilled a batch of

" stems only " and got my normal, sweet, fruity-floral oil. Seems that some of the

esthers got drawn down into the stem during the rainy season....not sure, never

know what to expect so I am learning to to expect much.

Kindly,

Jess Ring

green Ring Botanicals

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, Jess,

Thanks for generously posting so much interesting information lately. I wish

that I lived closer, as I would love to come help you and experience the

distillation process first-hand. If I can find any free time, I'm still thinking

I might try to visit.

I've been thinking of the rose you've described with the apple-scented leaves.

Is there any chance it's the eglantine, or sweet briar rose, and not the native

Nootka Rose? I've seen it in Pt. Townsend at a historical rose garden, and it's

known for its scented leaves. Here is a link:

http://iherb.org/articles/rose_info.htm?page=9

And this interesting site on fragrant plants mentions it, too:

http://scvrs.homestead.com/fragrantgarden.html

-Autumn

[Guest guest]

If you want to experience the " real " L. x intermedia " Grosso " I will tell you my

little secret. Contact Sunshine Enterprises in Tenino Washington. Sandy

Livingstone obtained cuttings from Kew Gardens in England, and it's the real

thing. I ordered from them 3 years ago through Takao (www.takao.com) and these

plants are robust with huge bright purple flowers on long stems, excellent for

cutting, drying, and full of good quality lavandin...the most oil of any

lavender I have ever distilled. It comes off sweet for us, but that is due to

our little microclimate and alkaline soils here in Southern California. Here's

a brief description of Sunshine " Situated snuggly in the heart of the

Skookumchuck Valley is a place where the colors of summer never fade. Amid the

greenhouses and gardens, master gardener Sandy Livingstone wealds her green

thumb on the usual and no-so-usual plants and flowers of the Pacific Northwest " .

Sandy

Rivendellaromatics.com

[Guest guest]

I am in essential oil business longer than 20 years, invested in

distilling Helicrysum italicum in Croatia, special story, but this is

the first year I distilled Lavender on my own in a copper A limbic

distillations , copper I bought last year in Portugal ( Also this

information I got here ) and all this happened because I am member of

this group already longer than a year so I really learned a lot here,

gained a lot of energy which give me final push to actually go and

distill. Last year when I started to distill for the first time I

realized that welding job was done less than adequate so I have to sent

the still back to whole seller to mend it

It was really specially, friend of mine Alena is living close to the

beach here in Slovenia so she invited me to distill her lavender, I will

have to check moor to tell

exactly which botanical variety this is. So the first day there was

seven people helping preparing Lavender herb. When I arrived on

location, flowers with rather long stem cca 0,5 m or longer or shorter

were cut into smaller peaces cca 3 cm each give or take. Interesting is

that the first day there was very small amount of essential oil produced

floating on the top of glass year where I was collecting Hidrosol . The

second day and the third day I produced cca 40 ml of oil each day in a

60 liter distilling unit. Both these two days I was collecting flowers

by myself together with friend and Alenka with much more Lavender

flowers included than the first batch and colour of the oil was very

dark yellow the second day ( Amber like ). There is so many technical

questions, how long to distill, how to prepare plant , material, son

said that cutting them the way we did , did gain no extra essential

oil.......................I will go on with story next time.

Dear mother ring where I can get your e mail contact

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I've been thinking of the rose you've described with the apple-scented leaves.

Is there any chance it's the eglantine, or sweet briar rose, and not the native

Nootka Rose? I've seen it in Pt. Townsend at a historical rose garden, and it's

known for its scented leaves. Here is a link:

http://iherb.org/articles/rose_info.htm?page=9

> And this interesting site on fragrant plants mentions it, too:

> http://scvrs.homestead.com/fragrantgarden.html

>

> -Autumn

Dear Lovely Miss Autumn,

I would love to see you any time you can make it - if not this year, than next,

and so on and so forth until we are very old and cackling all the time.

The rose is definitely a native rose - not the eglantine, though I do want to

meet that one. I am thinking it might be a cross of some of the different

native roses - we have about three types on the farm, but this one is

special..I'll take a pic and send it to you. The scented leaves are so very

special...I'll have to dry some next year...would love to distill it with

raspberry fruit, but the timing is off...it would also jive nicely with native

current...they share a certain tang.

Lets talk soon Autummn, and I hope you are having a beautiful summer!

Kindly,

Jess