Re: Squats with internally rotated hips

[Guest guest]

Mel,

Taking this on a stage, are you or anyone else aware of any studies carried out

on any impact that the angle of foot placement has on squat effectiveness?

eg parallel, 45 degree from parallel, whatever.

regards

Nic Oliver

Bath, UK

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[Guest guest]

Mel Siff cited:

<< CONCLUSIONS: There was relatively more activation of vastus medialis

obliquus than vastus lateralis at 40 degrees of semi-squat with the hip

medially

rotated by 30 degrees. This finding has clinical implications for training

the vastus medialis obliquus in patients with patellofemoral joint pain

syndrome. >>

I wonder if squeezing a pad between knees, which constrained hip medial

rotation to about 30° would offer any dis/advantages??

Jerry Telle

Lakewood CO USA

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[Guest guest]

Foot placement and squat effectiveness of what? Is the question I have.

It is in my opinion that pointing the feet straight ahead with a base of

less than 2 feet is probably the most demanding on flexibility and

strength. Most individuals cannot squat like this due to

strength/stability issues in the piriformis, probably resulting in a

greater recruitment of the VMO. Note the function of the piriformis in

your text. At about 60 degrees into the descent the knees tend to come

together, this is a lack of strength/recruitment needed to maintain

maximum stability. If the individual rotates the feet outward, this will

help the stability of the joint by pre-stretching the tissue/piriformis.

A high percentage of studies that look at VMO usage are done with an

isokinetic single joint leg extension, which in my opinion is useless. In

most cadevar studies in " Bone " I recall I found their conclusion of the VMO

to be a patella stabilizer. So in theory if you did a leg ext. and found

no EMG results, then bolted the leg ext to the wall you would probably

find some EMG results. Anyway whoever said " if you feel the burn,

that's where its working " .

Dennis Kline MS CSCS

Manager Strength Center/Ass't Track Coach

158 Hall

1725 State St

La Crosse WI 54601

email kline.denn@...

www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter

------------

First off, I have to say I've learned not to get too upset with

" contraindicated exercises " or their technique, without looking at the

goals

of the intended exercise. - thanks to the Supertraining List. This

study

should make us realize that blanket statements about the efficacy of an

exercise should not be taken at face value.

This study raises many questions for me. I understand that the Vastus

Medialis Oblique (VMO) is activated more than the Vastus Lateralis at 40

deg.

of knee flexion with 30 deg. of femoral internal rotation. But what

happens

at 30 deg. of knee flexion? The study already said there was no

difference

among hip positions at 20 deg. flexion. What about 50 deg. knee flexion?

Looking at this study alone tells me a static " wall sit " with knees

flexed at

40 deg. and femurs internally rotated at 30 deg. will activate the VMO

greater that the lateralis. If this assumption on my part is accurate,

what

happens over time. (ie. fatigue) Would a static " wall sit " at these

angles

change the EMG levels over a certain period of time?

I guess that's for another study...

Pete Koeniges, ATC, CSCS

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[Guest guest]

Dennis Kline writes:

<< At about 60 degrees into the descent the knees tend to come

together, this is a lack of strength/recruitment needed to maintain

maximum stability. If the individual rotates the feet outward, this will

help the stability of the joint by pre-stretching the tissue/piriformis. >>

Hi Dennis,

A number of questions.

1. How does " rotating the feet outward-----pre-stretch the

tissue/piriformis. " ?

2. Is it possible that the adductors and hamstrings " strongly " influence

internal rotation?

3. And if so would prime mover activation of the external rotators

reciprocally inhibit hamstring and adductor hip extension?

4. Does heel pressure and in general a power squat geometry--as opposed to

ball of the foot or " even " foot pressure effect internal rotation?

Jery Telle

Lakewood CO USA

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you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

You know, Jerry, I was wondering the same thing. What you describe is

similar to a common physical therapy exercise, except PTs usually have their

clients do it with the traditional " knees over toes " approach. I'm

referring to squats with some sort of pad or ball being squeezed between the

knees.

In light of the research that Dr. Siff just posted about thigh adduction

inducing significant VMO activity, I'm curious to see yet another EMG study

concerning the effectiveness of the above exercise in emphasizing the VMO.

Matt Stringer

San Diego, CA

-----------

Mel Siff cited:

<< CONCLUSIONS: There was relatively more activation of vastus medialis

obliquus than vastus lateralis at 40 degrees of semi-squat with the hip

medially rotated by 30 degrees. This finding has clinical implications for

training

the vastus medialis obliquus in patients with patellofemoral joint pain

syndrome. >>

Jerry Telle:

I wonder if squeezing a pad between knees, which constrained hip medial

rotation to about 30° would offer any dis/advantages??

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

wish them to be published!