RE: Re: Treadmill Training

[Guest guest]

writes:

<< As for the original question, that of risk of hamstring injury

following the transition from treadmill to track, I offer only

opinion, unsupported by research: by generating sustainable near-

maximal pace against lower resistance than one would encounter on the

track, you may lower the inhibition threshold enough that the

transfer to the higher-resistance-bearing track would cause the CNS

some confusion. How's THAT for conjecture AND a run-on sentence? >>

Well run onto this conjecture--the reason " that risk of hamstring injury

following the transition from treadmill to track " is possibly greater is

because motor driven treadmills are basically hip flexor activities and track

running much more hip extension?

Do any institutional models offer better resistance when they are shut off and

pushed against, like Mel will do on his treadmill in his home gym?

Jerry Telle

Colorado

[Guest guest]

Ken Vick:

<< Jerry, Woodway is just starting to produce a treadmill called

the Force. I'm not even sure if its on their website yet. It is a

non-motorized treadmill with a tether attachment in the rear. Not

only can it be self propelled, but a resistance can be added for

additional load. Their 2nd generation model will likely incorporate

a load cell in the tether and computerized software.

I think this will open up some exciting possibilities for training

since we may be able to incorporate measurement and feedback and the

athlete can work on running technique in one place where a coach can

stand or video be used.>>

Telle:

....and everyone will now have an opportunity for max effort indoor sprint

interval training--the only sensible way to train for CV.

Thanks for the info.

jerry Telle

lakewood CO USA

*Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

Ken Vick wrote:

<< Jerry, Woodway is just starting to produce a treadmill called

the Force. I'm not even sure if its on their website yet. It is a

non-motorized treadmill with a tether attachment in the rear. Not

only can it be self propelled, but a resistance can be added for

additional load. Their 2nd generation model will likely incorporate

a load cell in the tether and computerized software. >>

If it's the same one I had a chance to try out (twice!!) at the NSCA meeting

in Vegas last summer (2002), I'm definitely sold on it -- not only is it

non-motorized - self-propelled, but it also is the first I've seen that can

go up to as high as a 15% grade (vs. 10% of most treadmills) a definite

plus for mountain climbers! It's on my list as one of the next pieces

to acquire for our facility...unless I can find someone to make one out

of bits and pieces!

[For start, changing the grade on any treadmill (and any gym benches)to

be more uphill or downhill is not all that difficult with a few wedges of

tough wood. Tether attachments with elastics or pulley systems are also

very simple to add - I first saw Dr Ratov in using them on his home-modified

treadmill in the Sports Science Institute in Moscow. Possibly, this is

where the Western marketers derived their ideas from (Dr Ratov also added

suspension cables above the treadmill to provide reduced gravity training).

Mel Siff]

Courtenay Schurman, MS, CSCS

Seattle, USA

Body Results, Inc.

www.bodyresults.com

court@...

[Guest guest]

Ken Vick wrote:

< Jerry, Woodway is just starting to produce a treadmill called

the Force. I'm not even sure if its on their website yet. It is a

non-motorized treadmill with a tether attachment in the rear. Not

only can it be self propelled, but a resistance can be added for

additional load. --snip--If it's the same one I had a chance to try out

(twice!!) at the NSCA meeting

in Vegas last summer (2002), I'm definitely sold on it -- not only is it

non-motorized - self-propelled, but it also is the first I've seen that can

go up to as high as a 15% grade (vs. 10% of most treadmills) a definite

plus for mountain climbers! It's on my list as one of the next pieces

to acquire....>

Mel Siff:

<<For start, changing the grade on any treadmill (and any gym benches)to

be more uphill or downhill is not all that difficult with a few wedges of

tough wood. Tether attachments with elastics or pulley systems are also

very simple to add ...... snip>>

Telle:

" Great thread here! My experience is--due to owning a rather good Precor non

motorized treadmill, and inclining it as Mel siuggests--that the following

considerations need to be addressed;

1. How is the resistance supplied--the Precor is largely friction% which

has the advantage of immediately controlling for malingering--you stop

pushing--the tread stops moving.

On the other hand, the resistance is dissimilar to the kinetic characteristics

of

running. That is *if* the tread were " flywheeled " and speed controlled (what

range of deviation?), then a more specific running resistance would be

expressed?

2. Tethers? Is the tether elasticized to account for variations in force)and

is elasticity a function of user force and speed?

Is the tether vector adjusted commenserately with incline angle--that is is

the tether vector roughly parrallel to tread angle and where relative to the

users CG (center of gravity)?

If this sounds cynical--it's not--its a great concept! I am merely asking what

the state of the art is? Your(Ken Vick) anecdotal " messing about " trials go a

long way in suggesting current applicability and knowledge.

Jerry Telle

lakewood CO USA

[Guest guest]

Ken Vick wrote:

> << Jerry, Woodway is just starting to produce a treadmill called

> the Force. I'm not even sure if its on their website yet. It is a

> non-motorized treadmill with a tether attachment in the rear. Not

> only can it be self propelled, but a resistance can be added for

> additional load. Their 2nd generation model will likely incorporate

> a load cell in the tether and computerized software. >>

Courtenay Schurman wrote:

> If it's the same one I had a chance to try out (twice!!) at the NSCA meeting

> in Vegas last summer (2002), I'm definitely sold on it -- not only is it

> non-motorized - self-propelled, but it also is the first I've seen that can

> go up to as high as a 15% grade (vs. 10% of most treadmills) a definite

> plus for mountain climbers! It's on my list as one of the next pieces

> to acquire for our facility...unless I can find someone to make one out

> of bits and pieces!

Casler writes:

Although there have been some small commercial home versions of this, I

always wondered why treadmills were motorized in the first place.

I have designed a few (just simple design exercises on paper) to possibly

implement with the BIO-FORCE network and I used that very " non-motorized "

system. A tether to the runner is necessary to allow application of higher

loads to the running surface.

With the proper flywheel and magnetic brake it can be programmed for any

type of resistive load, and I can't imagine how a motorized unit could even

come close to the capabilities.

I was exploring the backwards, and sidewards potentials also. Now that

would be a real training tool.

The idea also allows for " adding " progressive resistance and generating a

myriad of great programs. I personally would like a treadmill like this,

but aside from a few little " belts on rollers " , cheapo home units, the

main manufacturers have ignored the design.

I applaud Woodway and hope it is as successful as I think it should be.

Regards,

Casler

TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

Century City, CA

[Guest guest]

I've enjoyed reading your continued discussion of this topic.

What method of treadmill(ing) would be most like running on ground?

- running on a motorized treadmill...?

- running (tethered) on a non-motorized treadmill...?

Does incline make it more similar or dissimilar to ground running/training?

Can you direct me to any peer reviewed articles that have explored these

questions?

Thank you

Tim Stark

West Fargo