Re: Article about Groupon Advertising

[Guest guest]

Interesting.....I've wondered how if the volume appeared and how it was handled and what, if any, repeat business occurred. Sounds like no fun. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com To: oregondcs From: drjdyson1@...Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:09:08 -0700Subject: Article about Groupon Advertising

Interesting article I found on some of the problems with Groupon advertising. - Jamey DysonFor Some Businesses, Daily Deals Have A Dark Sideby Yuki NoguchiNPR - July 6, 2012Groupon and Living Social have sold tens of millions of daily deals and are now a major force in retail. But they rely heavily on getting businesses to offer their goods and services at deep discounts. In exchange, businesses hope for payoff in the form of return customers....http://www.npr.org/2012/07/06/156333505/for-some-businesses-daily-deals-have-a-dark-side?sc=17 & f=1001Sent from my iPhone

[Guest guest]

You know I have sat back and watched and listened to the Groupon debate for some time now and I want to share my experience.First of all I think it is too bad we are unable to use this as a form of marketing. I had a great experience, just before we were told to stop using this form of marketing. I sold 160 Groupons and 122 people came in and over 50% of those folks came as return patients. I found that the majority of them were young (25-35 years) college educated and pleasant to work with. This group of folks had good jobs and were used to using this form of marketing. Of course there were a handful that only came for their one visit but really that was the exception in my case. Most came because they were having trouble with their back/neck and were earnest in learning and wanting to get more information about Chiropractic. Most of them had never been to a Chiropractor before and this was what brought them in. I took the time to educate them.I think the idea that most MD's don't advertise and therefore we need to hold ourselves up to their standards is silly! MD's have 99.9% of the population going to them. OF COURSE they don't need to advertise. We have (according to Dr. Jerry Clum, former President of Life West, at the OCA convention a year ago) less than 7% of the population going to Chiropractors. Now it seems to me that if we want to stay in business we need to think like business owners and use current and popular forms of marketing that keep us in the game. AND keep educating the public about what we do and how we do it. I for one am disappointed that we are unable to use this form of marketing.I have always felt that if we spent less time arguing amongst ourselves and more time joining together and supporting each other we could educate the public in a way that brought more patients in. I am often telling my patients that if I am not the right fit for them, that's fine, please go find someone that is and I will help them. BUT I stress that they need to get care by a Chiropractor. Be well,Judith Judith E. Allan, DC, PCOregon Natural Health Clinic(Inside Trainer's Club)333 S State Street, V401Lake Oswego, OR 97034OregonNaturalHealthClinic.com Interesting.....I've wondered how if the volume appeared and how it was handled and what, if any, repeat business occurred. Sounds like no fun. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com To: oregondcs From: drjdyson1@...Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:09:08 -0700Subject: Article about Groupon Advertising Interesting article I found on some of the problems with Groupon advertising. - Jamey DysonFor Some Businesses, Daily Deals Have A Dark Sideby Yuki NoguchiNPR - July 6, 2012Groupon and Living Social have sold tens of millions of daily deals and are now a major force in retail. But they rely heavily on getting businesses to offer their goods and services at deep discounts. In exchange, businesses hope for payoff in the form of return customers....http://www.npr.org/2012/07/06/156333505/for-some-businesses-daily-deals-have-a-dark-side?sc=17 & f=1001Sent from my iPhone

[Guest guest]

Judith,

I also supported the groupon advertising, tho I chose not to use the venue myself. I took time on 2 occasions to go to the OBCE public sessions and comment in favor. No one else was there in favor. no one. Very few doctors even wrote a letter of support to the board. The meetings were announced to all dcs in a letter to to the profession & emails. I even made calls to docs who I'd seen advertise in groupon, in hopes that they might take time off work and attend. At any rate, altho the board wanted to help DCs with this endeavor, ultimately, the attorney general's office and other legal councel advised the board that due to the currently written statutes in our OARs we could not participate without violating the 'kickback' rule curently in place.

In spite of this, the OBCE members took many hours of time in meetings to contact groupon and other 'coupon' venues to help craft language and contracts that would not violate the rule. As I understand it, now, there are contracts that can be used to participate in groupon and other similar venues. Since I don't participate, I can't tell you how that language is written. I do understand that a current board member did participate after the language was changed. Perhaps those that are using this advertising venue can enlighten the rest of us as to the new contracts.

I was disheartened to read the OCA newsletter commentary bashing the board for it's ruling on groupon issues. The article didn't take into account the fact that the board members had to make the ruling based on legal advice. i found the article to have incomplete facts on the issue and perhaps be unnecesarily derrogatory towards the board's position. It wasn't that the OBCE was opposed to DCs using groupon. It had more to do with the language of 'fees' for referrals. The way the fee payouts were structured, constituted 'kickbacks'. That's the violation part.

Any DC who wishes to take the time to review the OARs and put some time in to change the language so it still covers kickbacks but eliminates groupon issues, may do so. It can take about 1-2 years of meetings, approx 4-6 per year and legal advise. I don't fault the board for leaving this to the profession. Most rules are generated by the profession and 'considered' or 'brought forward' to the OBCE members. It's not the board's purview to advocate for the profession. The board is an agency of public protection- primarily- and secondarily a vehicle to 'improve' the profession.

Minga Guerrero DC

abowoman@...

Article about Groupon Advertising

Interesting article I found on some of the problems with Groupon advertising. - Jamey Dyson

For Some Businesses, Daily Deals Have A Dark Side

by Yuki Noguchi

NPR - July 6, 2012

Groupon and Living Social have sold tens of millions of daily deals and are now a major force in retail. But they rely heavily on getting businesses to offer their goods and services at deep discounts. In exchange, businesses hope for payoff in the form of return customers....

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/06/156333505/for-some-businesses-daily-deals-have-a-dark-side?sc=17 & f=1001

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest guest]

Well said Minga.  I too thought the article in OCA Journal concerning Groupons Ads was unnecessarily harsh and simplistic.  I believe the board has done a superb job of assessing this form of advertising and has worked with docs to  allow  some folks to use this medium with proper legal  parameters being met.

I salute the great job  our current board is doing in all regards. Schneider DCPDX

 

Judith,

I also supported the groupon advertising, tho I chose not to use the venue myself. I took time on 2 occasions to go to the OBCE public sessions and comment in favor. No one else was there in favor. no one. Very few doctors even wrote a letter of support to the board. The meetings were announced to all dcs in a letter to to the profession &  emails. I even made calls to docs who I'd seen advertise in groupon, in hopes that they might take time off work and attend. At any rate, altho the board wanted to help DCs with this endeavor, ultimately, the attorney general's office and other legal councel advised the board that due to the currently written statutes in our OARs we could not participate without violating the 'kickback' rule curently in place.

 

In spite of this, the OBCE members took many hours of time in meetings to contact groupon and other 'coupon' venues to help craft language and contracts that would not violate the rule. As I understand it, now, there are contracts that can be used to participate in groupon and other similar venues. Since I don't participate, I can't tell you how that language is written. I do understand that a current board member did participate after the language was changed. Perhaps those that are using this advertising venue can enlighten the rest of us as to the new contracts.

 

I was disheartened to read the OCA newsletter commentary bashing the board for it's ruling on groupon issues. The article didn't take into account the fact that the board members had to make the ruling based on legal advice. i found the article to have incomplete facts on the issue and perhaps be unnecesarily derrogatory towards the board's position. It wasn't that the OBCE was opposed to DCs using groupon.  It had more to do with the language of 'fees' for referrals. The way the fee payouts were structured, constituted 'kickbacks'. That's the violation part.

 

Any DC who wishes to take the time to review the OARs and put some time in to change the language so it still covers kickbacks but eliminates groupon issues, may do so. It can take about 1-2 years of meetings, approx 4-6 per year and legal advise. I don't fault the board for leaving this to the profession. Most rules are generated by the profession and 'considered' or 'brought forward' to the OBCE members. It's not the board's purview to advocate for the profession. The board is an agency of public protection- primarily- and secondarily a vehicle to 'improve' the profession.

 

Minga Guerrero DC

abowoman@...

Article about Groupon Advertising

 

Interesting article I found on some of the problems with Groupon advertising. - Jamey Dyson

For Some Businesses, Daily Deals Have A Dark Side

by Yuki Noguchi

NPR - July 6, 2012

Groupon and Living Social have sold tens of millions of daily deals and are now a major force in retail. But they rely heavily on getting businesses to offer their goods and services at deep discounts. In exchange, businesses hope for payoff in the form of return customers....

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/06/156333505/for-some-businesses-daily-deals-have-a-dark-side?sc=17 & f=1001

Sent from my iPhone

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

I read a similar article months ago.

It’s called “being in business”.

You bring people in for a discounted dinner, oil change, teeth cleaning, and you have the responsibility to present a business that encourages returning.

You also have to become a “verb”, and offer them something.

Help with chronic posture issues, digestive issues, headaches, weight management, wellness, plantar fasciitis, tennis elbow, etc..

I know that if I had recently moved to Salem and got a coupon for a cheap adjustment, I would be thrilled to meet a doctor like Jamey Dyson.

I would be happy that I didn’t have to go through a Sunny lecture on the horrors of milk (although it would be beneficial) or a 3 day report of findings on 86 visits to my perfect cervical curve (although it is one of my future goals.)

And if you don’t like TV advertising or Groupon, do something else. Speak to Rotary and Kiwanis groups. It works.

Just don’t tell everyone else that the government should decide that they need to protect the public from chiropractors who are tacky. It’s not government’s job.

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:09:08 -0700

To: Oregon DC'S <oregondcs >

Subject: Article about Groupon Advertising

Interesting article I found on some of the problems with Groupon advertising. - Jamey Dyson

For Some Businesses, Daily Deals Have A Dark Side

by Yuki Noguchi

NPR - July 6, 2012

Groupon and Living Social have sold tens of millions of daily deals and are now a major force in retail. But they rely heavily on getting businesses to offer their goods and services at deep discounts. In exchange, businesses hope for payoff in the form of return customers....

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/06/156333505/for-some-businesses-daily-deals-have-a-dark-side?sc=17 & f=1001

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest guest]

I was at the OBCE meetings and am on the RAC where it was addressed. I spoke and

wrote in support of allowing Groupon if it could change the agreement language

to something like Living Social's. Groupon has changed their agreement language

and if you make it marketing vs fee splitting you are good to go.

s.fuchs dc

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> Interesting.....I've wondered how if the volume appeared and how it was

handled and what, if any, repeat business occurred. Sounds like no fun.

>

> Sunny

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>

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> Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC

> Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

> 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

> Eugene, Oregon, 97401

> 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834

> www.drsunnykierstyn.com

>

>

>

>

> To: oregondcs

> From: drjdyson1@...

> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:09:08 -0700

> Subject: Article about Groupon Advertising

>

>

>

>

> Interesting article I found on some of the problems with Groupon advertising.

- Jamey Dyson

> For Some Businesses, Daily Deals Have A Dark Side

> by Yuki Noguchi

> NPR - July 6, 2012

> Groupon and Living Social have sold tens of millions of daily deals and are

now a major force in retail. But they rely heavily on getting businesses to

offer their goods and services at deep discounts. In exchange, businesses hope

for payoff in the form of return customers....

>

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/06/156333505/for-some-businesses-daily-deals-have-a-d\

ark-side?sc=17 & f=1001

>

>

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>