Re: More on Paxil / Seroxat

[Guest guest]

Carruthersjam@... writes:

<< Any comments?

< Carruthers

Yes. - The people who make, and the people who give out SSRIs

like Seroxat / Paxil etc, should be shot. Better still, forced fed heroin until

addicted, then made to go cold turkey. Then repeat.

Simon Pitt,

B'Ham,

England

[Guest guest]

enigma2771@... writes:

<< Yes. - The people who make, and the people who give out SSRIs

like Seroxat / Paxil etc, should be shot. Better still, forced fed heroin

until

addicted, then made to go cold turkey. Then repeat. >>

Maybe some of them all the time--and all some of the time--but not all of

them all the time. Until you realize the difference between life and a

carrot, as a function of an SSRI, you may be better served by empathy,

concious awareness and reflection as opposed to unsullied condemmnation.

Jerry Telle

Lakewood CO USA

*Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of

residence if you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

Simon Pitt<enigma2771@a... > wrote:

> Yes. - The people who make, and the people who give out SSRIs

> like Seroxat / Paxil etc, should be shot. Better still, forced fed

heroin until addicted, then made to go cold turkey. Then repeat.

** I was of the same opinion during the programme. However, after a

little time of reflection I think these drugs can play a role in

combating depression and other mental illnesses.

Yet, before they are prescribed to anyone, a complete evaluation of

the history of the patient / depression should be undertaken. It is

worth noting that most individuals with mental health problems seek

help from their GPs, yet GPs have no specialised training in this area

(s et al, 1999). No wonder GPs advocate these drugs because

they don't know what to do? More education needed in this area?

Other treatments should be researched to a greater degree and applied

more frequently rather than the continual 'candy pushing approach':

1. Exercise

2. Stress management techniques – relaxation

3. Lifestyle modifications – diet etc.

4. Using all of the senses to combat mental illnesses (see previous

messages). Look at how the architectural profession is developing –

our surroundings have a huge impact on our health.

5. Herbal remedies

6. Placebo

7. Any more?

Carruthers

Wakefield

UK

[Guest guest]

<Simon Pitt wrote:

> Yes. - The people who make, and the people who give out SSRIs

> like Seroxat / Paxil etc, should be shot. Better still, forced fed

>heroin until addicted, then made to go cold turkey. Then repeat.

Carruthers replied:

<<I was of the same opinion during the programme. However, after a

little time of reflection I think these drugs can play a role in

combating depression and other mental illnesses. >>

I really don't. I speak from experience as I was put on two different types

of SSRI, one recently, the other several years ago. The first experience was

bad, and I stopped taking them after a few days. The more recent time though

(about two years ago) was one of the worst mistakes I have ever made. It was

how I'd imagine hell would be like. I was on them for a couple of months

until I could take no more (my doctor said persevere, as the side effects pass,

but

they didn't). Coming off was *much* worse. In fact, it was so bad I don't

really want to remember how bad it was.

Now does this sound like the words of someone put on a drug to improve mood?!

Now I struggle not to despise doctors and don't trust them at all. I feel much

better

since self-prescribing St s Wort, 5-HTP and fish oil, amongst other natural

products, despite some research suggesting that they may not be of value.

Seriously, I don't think there is any place for SSRIs when there are so many

comparable,

safer alternatives out there which can be found to suit the given individual. I

also know

that gamma hydroxy-butyrate (GHB) will temporally cure a depressed person in

about

15 minutes, but of course it's made out now (by the people " in charge " , whom the

pharmaceutical

industries pay off) to be some hideous evil drug.

Is it even possible today to find totally independent objective studies of many

drugs like this

without drug or medical establishment influence on the results? How can we

trust the

medical establishment today when there appear to be so many vested and

subjective interests

underlying the whole system?

Simon Pitt,

B'Ham,

England

[Guest guest]

JRTELLE@... writes:

<< Maybe some of them all the time--and all some of the time--but not all of

<them all the time. Until you realize the difference between life and a

<carrot, as a function of an SSRI, you may be better served by empathy,

<concious awareness and reflection as opposed to unsullied condemmnation.

<Jerry Telle >>

No, i'd say that was rubbish.

Simon Pitt,

B'Ham,

England

[Guest guest]

>>> I really don't. I speak from experience as I was put on two

different types of SSRI, one recently, the other several years ago.

The first experience was bad, and I stopped taking them after a few

days. The more recent time though (about two years ago) was one of

the worst mistakes I have ever made. It was how I'd imagine hell

would be like. I was on them for a couple of months until I could

take no more (my doctor said persevere, as the side effects pass, but

they didn't). Coming off was *much* worse. In fact, it was so bad I

don't really want to remember how bad it was.>>>

***Surely doesn't your experiences emphasise the need to further

education / research in this area. It seems similar to that of many

other cases where the GP lacks knowledge and understanding with

regard to these drugs, alternative solutions and depression (mental

illnesses).

I believe prior to prescribing these drugs the GP should carefully

evaluate the patient to determine whether or not they have a genuine

pathological problem. If the GP doesn't think the patient has the

latter he or she may offer alternatives to these drugs as suggested

in previous messages (exercise, lifestyle / diet modifications etc).

However, if the patient still wishes to take these drugs he or she

should be informed of the potential side effects.

Additionally, further research should be completed in the following

areas:

1. Timing effects of these drugs

2. Side effects - why some people suffer while some don't. If I

recall correctly in one study one in four of the healthy volunteers

suffered some kind of side effect.

3. Cycling these drugs. Most individuals taking these drugs stop

them quite abruptly – individuals should be encouraged to lower the

doses week by week, day by day (as some bodybuilders do using

anabolic steroids)

4. Combinations with complementary medicines to determine drug-herb

or drug-supplement interactions.

>>>Now does this sound like the words of someone put on a drug to

improve mood?! Now I struggle not to despise doctors and don't trust

them at all. I feel much better since self-prescribing St s

Wort, 5-HTP and fish oil, amongst other natural products, despite

some research suggesting that they may not be of value.>>>>

***I know how you feel believe you me. I was also prescribed a

number of anti-depressants to combat IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome)

about 2 years ago - as well as drugs for pain, nausea, bloating and

diarrhea - antispasmodics, fibre supplements, antiflatulents,

antibiotics – none of latter worked for ME. I could easily be

dismissive of the medical profession after my experience, but I

realise that they can only use the tools which they have been given.

I also appreciate the fact that from reading a number of books and

attending a few conferences that some of these drugs have been shown

to work quite successfully for others.

>>>Seriously, I don't think there is any place for SSRIs when there

are so many comparable, safer alternatives out there which can be

found to suit the given individual. I also know that gamma hydroxy-

butyrate (GHB) will temporally cure a depressed person in about

15 minutes, but of course it's made out now (by the people " in

charge " , whom the pharmaceutical industries pay off) to be some

hideous evil drug.>>>

***Has there been any research completed comparing these drugs to

other alternatives? How do we know that they are safer? How

effective are they? Recently, at the International Conference for

Complementary and Alternative Medicines there was quite a concern

regarding the exponential utilisation of these methods suggesting

that `it is imperative that research assessing the safety and

efficacy of these modalities expands.'

Some concerns regarding this market:

1. Poorly regulated – contaminations, purity, dosages

2. A great deal of pseudoscientific evidence

3. If it's not a prescription drug it must be completely safe

attitude

>>> Is it even possible today to find totally independent objective

studies of many drugs like this without drug or medical establishment

influence on the results? How can we trust the medical establishment

today when there appear to be so many vested and subjective interests

underlying the whole system?>>>

***Isn't it similar with regard to nutrition, sport and fitness,

alternative medicines...?

I appreciate your comments

Carruthers

Wakefield

UK

[Guest guest]

This is anecdotal but confirms other information exchanged on the

Supertraining list:

My wife suffers from depression and also had a very strong adverse

reaction to Prozac. The doctors at the local practice were largely

ignorant and consequently not only unhelpful but also unsympathetic.

This is simply a lack of professionalism (as well as time and

resources). She also found St 's Wort more helpful, but deliberately

kept her use of it to a minimum.

A journalist friend of mine was responsive to Prozac, first prescribed

to her during an emotional crisis (abandoned by long-term partner) ten

years ago and is now dependent on it with her doctor's complicity and

returns to using it once every year or so.

FWIW

Mike

Benis BA FIL MITI

Freelance Communications Consultant, Copywriter, Journalist and

Translator

EC freelance translator

Brighton UK

michaelbenis@...

www.michaelbenis.com

[Guest guest]

<< << Maybe some of them all the time--and all some of the time--but not all

of

<them all the time. Until you realize the difference between life and a

<carrot, as a function of an SSRI, you may be better served by empathy,

<concious awareness and reflection as opposed to unsullied condemmnation.

<Jerry Telle >>

No, i'd say that was rubbish.

Simon Pitt,>>

Well Simon--rubbish is rubbish until something other than rubbish comes

along--with your gift for the terse and distinct I'll expect your enlightened

response to clear the horiizon of debris.

Jerry Telle

Lakewood CO USA