Guest guest Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 , I believe you are dead on correct in your assessment of what is happening with IME increases as of late. I have noticed an increase myself and I usually rarely see IMEs of my clients. Schneider DC PDX IME rate is increasing across the board and it has everything to do with cost management. I had two different auto insurance adjusters give me the same spiel verbatim concerning two different patients and their potential IMEs. Even with documentation supporting causation, objectively documenting injury supporting medical necessity, and providing outcome markers demonstrating improvement adjusters simply are not reading the submitted documentation (reports). , DC, FACO > > > > Storm clouds, the Oregon Chiropractic Association is being proactive and pre-emptive as per troubled areas in PIP including excessive IMEs, biased IMEs, file reviews and other forms of abuse on the “over side of the fence.†We do not wish to end up like Florida wherein you are reduced to having to receive a referral from a medical professional including a physician’s assistant and limits of care to $2,500….Vern Saboe PS: Have you joined the fight colleagues? Have you joined the OCA? We need your financial help and your ideas call he OCA office and join today…, Vern Saboe if you have specific questions call me any Time Cell > > > > > > > > From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph Medlin > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:07 AM > > To: oregondcs > > Subject: IME increase > > > > > > > > > > > > The increase as of late in IME’s has been enormous in our office. We have more patients going to IME’s than not at this point. I used to NEVER have an IME requested of my patients. There is something in the water. Anyone else noticing this to a high degree as of late? > > > > > > > > I mean cases that are 8 visits in with pain levels of 5-6 of 10 and they’re getting IMEd.......uuughhh. > > > > > > > > ph Medlin D.C. > > > -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Vern, Thanks for this post to the field. I think it is also important for the DCs in Oregon to realize we are one of only a handful of states that still have PIP coverage in Auto insurance, and of the ones that still do, we DCs have a very good benefit in PIP coverage in Oregon. We can't allow to happen in Oregon what just happened in Florida. Docs, if you are a member of the OCA, Thank You. If you are not, now is the time to think long and hard about what you can do to support your fellow DCs. Please call Jan at the OCA office, . Talk to her about how little it costs to support your "only" state association. Also think about supporting ChiroPac. Vern has done wonders in the State Legislature, and to keep this going the PAC needs funding. When you think about all of this, it really isn't that much. Please call Jan today. There is a small number of DCs taking on a large amount of work. We could use your help, not only financially, but with your volunteer efforts. Thank you for reading. Grice, DC OCA VP Legislative Chair Albany, OR  Will, and colleagues,  Know that your only state association is looking out for you, the profession and consumers injured in auto crashes. The OCA Executive Board met over the weekend for a strategy and goal setting meeting for our collective futures. One of the issues discussed was the real continued abuses in auto PIP by a few who would trash our wonderful PIP law by over-utilization, excessive treatment. We are putting our “Insurance Relations Committee†back together Co-Chaired by two of our Board members. The insurance relations committee will address the auto PIP issue, determine what stakeholders to invite to the table for discussing the problems they see on their end which may included doctors who treat auto PIP cases, IME physicians, plaintiff and defense attorneys, representatives from the insurance auto PIP industry, OBCE Peer Review colleagues, officials from the Univ of Western States etc., etc.â€Â The OCA Insurance Relations Committee will then determine what issues will be discussed, probable solutions to those issues/problems, actions steps to implement those solutions and timelines to complete the committees work.  Whatever the Insurance Relations Committee comes up with must be approved by the OCA Executive Board and then by the General Membership of the OCA before full statewide implementation.  The Oregon Chiropractic Association is simply not going to passively sit back but rather we will indeed be proactive and pre-emptive and address the auto PIP issue head-on.  Dear colleague please know our resources wear thin and we need your financial support, we need your thoughts, ideas, your energy and we need them now if there were ever a time that we needed to stand together this would be it. Please call the OCA office today and sign up as a new member it will cost but $66 per month that is the cost of a regular membership…and what of the cost if we lose the privilege (yes privilege) of treating Oregon consumers injured in auto accidents? Help us, help you add your shoulder to that great stone wheel today help us reach that mountain top together!   Call the OCA office at .  To The Continued Good Fight!  Vern Saboe Questions? Call me any time 41-231-4528 cell  From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Schneider Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:41 PM To: hillcrestchiro Cc: oregondcs Subject: Re: IME increase   , I believe you are dead on correct in your assessment of what is happening with IME increases as of late. I have noticed an increase myself and I usually rarely see IMEs of my clients. Schneider DC PDX On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 7:05 PM, hillcrestchiro wrote:  IME rate is increasing across the board and it has everything to do with cost management. I had two different auto insurance adjusters give me the same spiel verbatim concerning two different patients and their potential IMEs. Even with documentation supporting causation, objectively documenting injury supporting medical necessity, and providing outcome markers demonstrating improvement adjusters simply are not reading the submitted documentation (reports). , DC, FACO > > > > Storm clouds, the Oregon Chiropractic Association is being proactive and pre-emptive as per troubled areas in PIP including excessive IMEs, biased IMEs, file reviews and other forms of abuse on the “over side of the fence.†We do not wish to end up like Florida wherein you are reduced to having to receive a referral from a medical professional including a physician’s assistant and limits of care to $2,500….Vern Saboe PS: Have you joined the fight colleagues? Have you joined the OCA? We need your financial help and your ideas call he OCA office and join today…, Vern Saboe if you have specific questions call me any Time Cell > > > > > > > > From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph Medlin > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:07 AM > > To: oregondcs > > Subject: IME increase > > > > > > > > > > > > The increase as of late in IME’s has been enormous in our office. We have more patients going to IME’s than not at this point. I used to NEVER have an IME requested of my patients. There is something in the water. Anyone else noticing this to a high degree as of late? > > > > > > > > I mean cases that are 8 visits in with pain levels of 5-6 of 10 and they’re getting IMEd.......uuughhh. > > > > > > > > ph Medlin D.C. > > > -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 We ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY need someone to fight for us. We need to have a collective force that is looking out for us, our interests and our future. If EVERY chiropractor in Oregon became a member of this organization, we’d have formidable representation as a profession and would undoubtedly have less to complain about! ph Medlin D.C. From: Grice Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 8:53 AM To: vsaboe Cc: ' Schneider' ; 'hillcrestchiro' ; oregondcs Subject: Re: IME increase Vern, Thanks for this post to the field. I think it is also important for the DCs in Oregon to realize we are one of only a handful of states that still have PIP coverage in Auto insurance, and of the ones that still do, we DCs have a very good benefit in PIP coverage in Oregon. We can't allow to happen in Oregon what just happened in Florida. Docs, if you are a member of the OCA, Thank You. If you are not, now is the time to think long and hard about what you can do to support your fellow DCs. Please call Jan at the OCA office, . Talk to her about how little it costs to support your "only" state association. Also think about supporting ChiroPac. Vern has done wonders in the State Legislature, and to keep this going the PAC needs funding. When you think about all of this, it really isn't that much. Please call Jan today. There is a small number of DCs taking on a large amount of work. We could use your help, not only financially, but with your volunteer efforts. Thank you for reading. Grice, DCOCA VPLegislative ChairAlbany, OR Will, and colleagues, Know that your only state association is looking out for you, the profession and consumers injured in auto crashes. The OCA Executive Board met over the weekend for a strategy and goal setting meeting for our collective futures. One of the issues discussed was the real continued abuses in auto PIP by a few who would trash our wonderful PIP law by over-utilization, excessive treatment. We are putting our “Insurance Relations Committee†back together Co-Chaired by two of our Board members. The insurance relations committee will address the auto PIP issue, determine what stakeholders to invite to the table for discussing the problems they see on their end which may included doctors who treat auto PIP cases, IME physicians, plaintiff and defense attorneys, representatives from the insurance auto PIP industry, OBCE Peer Review colleagues, officials from the Univ of Western States etc., etc.†The OCA Insurance Relations Committee will then determine what issues will be discussed, probable solutions to those issues/problems, actions steps to implement those solutions and timelines to complete the committees work. Whatever the Insurance Relations Committee comes up with must be approved by the OCA Executive Board and then by the General Membership of the OCA before full statewide implementation. The Oregon Chiropractic Association is simply not going to passively sit back but rather we will indeed be proactive and pre-emptive and address the auto PIP issue head-on. Dear colleague please know our resources wear thin and we need your financial support, we need your thoughts, ideas, your energy and we need them now if there were ever a time that we needed to stand together this would be it. Please call the OCA office today and sign up as a new member it will cost but $66 per month that is the cost of a regular membership…and what of the cost if we lose the privilege (yes privilege) of treating Oregon consumers injured in auto accidents? Help us, help you add your shoulder to that great stone wheel today help us reach that mountain top together! Call the OCA office at . To The Continued Good Fight! Vern Saboe Questions? Call me any time 41-231-4528 cell From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of SchneiderSent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:41 PMTo: hillcrestchiroCc: oregondcs Subject: Re: IME increase , I believe you are dead on correct in your assessment of what is happening with IME increases as of late. I have noticed an increase myself and I usually rarely see IMEs of my clients. Schneider DCPDX IME rate is increasing across the board and it has everything to do with cost management.I had two different auto insurance adjusters give me the same spiel verbatim concerning two different patients and their potential IMEs.Even with documentation supporting causation, objectively documenting injury supporting medical necessity, and providing outcome markers demonstrating improvement adjusters simply are not reading the submitted documentation (reports). , DC, FACO > >> > Storm clouds, the Oregon Chiropractic Association is being proactive and pre-emptive as per troubled areas in PIP including excessive IMEs, biased IMEs, file reviews and other forms of abuse on the “over side of the fence.†We do not wish to end up like Florida wherein you are reduced to having to receive a referral from a medical professional including a physician’s assistant and limits of care to $2,500….Vern Saboe PS: Have you joined the fight colleagues? Have you joined the OCA? We need your financial help and your ideas call he OCA office and join today…, Vern Saboe if you have specific questions call me any Time Cell > > > > > > > > From: mailto:oregondcs%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:oregondcs%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ph Medlin > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:07 AM > > To: mailto:oregondcs%40yahoogroups.com > > Subject: IME increase> > > > > > > > > > > > The increase as of late in IME’s has been enormous in our office. We have more patients going to IME’s than not at this point. I used to NEVER have an IME requested of my patients. There is something in the water. Anyone else noticing this to a high degree as of late?> > > > > > > > I mean cases that are 8 visits in with pain levels of 5-6 of 10 and they’re getting IMEd.......uuughhh.> > > > > > > > ph Medlin D.C.> >> -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I agree. Being a new board member I am more grateful for your watchful eye Vern. Saturday was a markedly productive day, great cohesion in the board.  I am impressed with the OCA’s progress and what out future looks like. As it has been repeated before, one can’t stand alone but many can stand together. Brad Rethwill DC Eugene From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Grice Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 8:54 AM To: vsaboe Cc: ' Schneider'; 'hillcrestchiro'; oregondcs Subject: Re: IME increase Vern, Thanks for this post to the field. I think it is also important for the DCs in Oregon to realize we are one of only a handful of states that still have PIP coverage in Auto insurance, and of the ones that still do, we DCs have a very good benefit in PIP coverage in Oregon. We can't allow to happen in Oregon what just happened in Florida. Docs, if you are a member of the OCA, Thank You. If you are not, now is the time to think long and hard about what you can do to support your fellow DCs. Please call Jan at the OCA office, . Talk to her about how little it costs to support your " only " state association. Also think about supporting ChiroPac. Vern has done wonders in the State Legislature, and to keep this going the PAC needs funding. When you think about all of this, it really isn't that much. Please call Jan today. There is a small number of DCs taking on a large amount of work. We could use your help, not only financially, but with your volunteer efforts. Thank you for reading. Grice, DC OCA VP Legislative Chair Albany, OR Will, and colleagues, Know that your only state association is looking out for you, the profession and consumers injured in auto crashes. The OCA Executive Board met over the weekend for a strategy and goal setting meeting for our collective futures. One of the issues discussed was the real continued abuses in auto PIP by a few who would trash our wonderful PIP law by over-utilization, excessive treatment. We are putting our “Insurance Relations Committee†back together Co-Chaired by two of our Board members. The insurance relations committee will address the auto PIP issue, determine what stakeholders to invite to the table for discussing the problems they see on their end which may included doctors who treat auto PIP cases, IME physicians, plaintiff and defense attorneys, representatives from the insurance auto PIP industry, OBCE Peer Review colleagues, officials from the Univ of Western States etc., etc.†The OCA Insurance Relations Committee will then determine what issues will be discussed, probable solutions to those issues/problems, actions steps to implement those solutions and timelines to complete the committees work. Whatever the Insurance Relations Committee comes up with must be approved by the OCA Executive Board and then by the General Membership of the OCA before full statewide implementation. The Oregon Chiropractic Association is simply not going to passively sit back but rather we will indeed be proactive and pre-emptive and address the auto PIP issue head-on. Dear colleague please know our resources wear thin and we need your financial support, we need your thoughts, ideas, your energy and we need them now if there were ever a time that we needed to stand together this would be it. Please call the OCA office today and sign up as a new member it will cost but $66 per month that is the cost of a regular membership…and what of the cost if we lose the privilege (yes privilege) of treating Oregon consumers injured in auto accidents? Help us, help you add your shoulder to that great stone wheel today help us reach that mountain top together! Call the OCA office at . To The Continued Good Fight! Vern Saboe Questions? Call me any time 41-231-4528 cell From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Schneider Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:41 PM To: hillcrestchiro Cc: oregondcs Subject: Re: IME increase , I believe you are dead on correct in your assessment of what is happening with IME increases as of late. I have noticed an increase myself and I usually rarely see IMEs of my clients. Schneider DC PDX On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 7:05 PM, hillcrestchiro wrote: IME rate is increasing across the board and it has everything to do with cost management. I had two different auto insurance adjusters give me the same spiel verbatim concerning two different patients and their potential IMEs. Even with documentation supporting causation, objectively documenting injury supporting medical necessity, and providing outcome markers demonstrating improvement adjusters simply are not reading the submitted documentation (reports). , DC, FACO > > > > Storm clouds, the Oregon Chiropractic Association is being proactive and pre-emptive as per troubled areas in PIP including excessive IMEs, biased IMEs, file reviews and other forms of abuse on the “over side of the fence.†We do not wish to end up like Florida wherein you are reduced to having to receive a referral from a medical professional including a physician’s assistant and limits of care to $2,500….Vern Saboe PS: Have you joined the fight colleagues? Have you joined the OCA? We need your financial help and your ideas call he OCA office and join today…, Vern Saboe if you have specific questions call me any Time Cell > > > > > > > > From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph Medlin > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:07 AM > > To: oregondcs > > Subject: IME increase > > > > > > > > > > > > The increase as of late in IME’s has been enormous in our office. We have more patients going to IME’s than not at this point. I used to NEVER have an IME requested of my patients. There is something in the water. Anyone else noticing this to a high degree as of late? > > > > > > > > I mean cases that are 8 visits in with pain levels of 5-6 of 10 and they’re getting IMEd.......uuughhh. > > > > > > > > ph Medlin D.C. > > > -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 It takes all of us to keep all of us in practice. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com To: vsaboe@...; rongrice@...CC: portlandchiro1@...; hillcrestchiro@...; oregondcs From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:06:17 -0700Subject: Re: IME increase We ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY need someone to fight for us. We need to have a collective force that is looking out for us, our interests and our future. If EVERY chiropractor in Oregon became a member of this organization, we’d have formidable representation as a profession and would undoubtedly have less to complain about! ph Medlin D.C. From: Grice Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 8:53 AM To: vsaboe Cc: ' Schneider' ; 'hillcrestchiro' ; oregondcs Subject: Re: IME increase Vern, Thanks for this post to the field. I think it is also important for the DCs in Oregon to realize we are one of only a handful of states that still have PIP coverage in Auto insurance, and of the ones that still do, we DCs have a very good benefit in PIP coverage in Oregon. We can't allow to happen in Oregon what just happened in Florida. Docs, if you are a member of the OCA, Thank You. If you are not, now is the time to think long and hard about what you can do to support your fellow DCs. Please call Jan at the OCA office, . Talk to her about how little it costs to support your "only" state association. Also think about supporting ChiroPac. Vern has done wonders in the State Legislature, and to keep this going the PAC needs funding. When you think about all of this, it really isn't that much. Please call Jan today. There is a small number of DCs taking on a large amount of work. We could use your help, not only financially, but with your volunteer efforts. Thank you for reading. Grice, DCOCA VPLegislative ChairAlbany, OR Will, and colleagues, Know that your only state association is looking out for you, the profession and consumers injured in auto crashes. The OCA Executive Board met over the weekend for a strategy and goal setting meeting for our collective futures. One of the issues discussed was the real continued abuses in auto PIP by a few who would trash our wonderful PIP law by over-utilization, excessive treatment. We are putting our “Insurance Relations Committee” back together Co-Chaired by two of our Board members. The insurance relations committee will address the auto PIP issue, determine what stakeholders to invite to the table for discussing the problems they see on their end which may included doctors who treat auto PIP cases, IME physicians, plaintiff and defense attorneys, representatives from the insurance auto PIP industry, OBCE Peer Review colleagues, officials from the Univ of Western States etc., etc.” The OCA Insurance Relations Committee will then determine what issues will be discussed, probable solutions to those issues/problems, actions steps to implement those solutions and timelines to complete the committees work. Whatever the Insurance Relations Committee comes up with must be approved by the OCA Executive Board and then by the General Membership of the OCA before full statewide implementation. The Oregon Chiropractic Association is simply not going to passively sit back but rather we will indeed be proactive and pre-emptive and address the auto PIP issue head-on. Dear colleague please know our resources wear thin and we need your financial support, we need your thoughts, ideas, your energy and we need them now if there were ever a time that we needed to stand together this would be it. Please call the OCA office today and sign up as a new member it will cost but $66 per month that is the cost of a regular membership…and what of the cost if we lose the privilege (yes privilege) of treating Oregon consumers injured in auto accidents? Help us, help you add your shoulder to that great stone wheel today help us reach that mountain top together! Call the OCA office at . To The Continued Good Fight! Vern Saboe Questions? Call me any time 41-231-4528 cell From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of SchneiderSent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:41 PMTo: hillcrestchiroCc: oregondcs Subject: Re: IME increase , I believe you are dead on correct in your assessment of what is happening with IME increases as of late. I have noticed an increase myself and I usually rarely see IMEs of my clients. Schneider DCPDX IME rate is increasing across the board and it has everything to do with cost management.I had two different auto insurance adjusters give me the same spiel verbatim concerning two different patients and their potential IMEs.Even with documentation supporting causation, objectively documenting injury supporting medical necessity, and providing outcome markers demonstrating improvement adjusters simply are not reading the submitted documentation (reports). , DC, FACO > >> > Storm clouds, the Oregon Chiropractic Association is being proactive and pre-emptive as per troubled areas in PIP including excessive IMEs, biased IMEs, file reviews and other forms of abuse on the “over side of the fence.†We do not wish to end up like Florida wherein you are reduced to having to receive a referral from a medical professional including a physician’s assistant and limits of care to $2,500….Vern Saboe PS: Have you joined the fight colleagues? Have you joined the OCA? We need your financial help and your ideas call he OCA office and join today…, Vern Saboe if you have specific questions call me any Time Cell > > > > > > > > From: mailto:oregondcs%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:oregondcs%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ph Medlin > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:07 AM > > To: mailto:oregondcs%40yahoogroups.com > > Subject: IME increase> > > > > > > > > > > > The increase as of late in IME’s has been enormous in our office. We have more patients going to IME’s than not at this point. I used to NEVER have an IME requested of my patients. There is something in the water. Anyone else noticing this to a high degree as of late?> > > > > > > > I mean cases that are 8 visits in with pain levels of 5-6 of 10 and they’re getting IMEd.......uuughhh.> > > > > > > > ph Medlin D.C.> >> -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 The increase in IME's is about cost management; cost management through the ELIMINATION OF PIP COVERAGE across this country. Florida was the most recent victim...(chiros there can tx only under MEDICAL referral; massage--and I think acupuncture--were completely eliminated). Oregon is one of only a handful of states left where chiropractors have full attending physician status in PIP folks...(and the limits were recently raised from 10k to 15k. This is why PIP Mills love Oregon So, keep your eye on the $-Ball (IME'ers) and the "big picture." The insurance industry is gathering STATISTICS (through biased/slanted and sometimes bogus IME's). They will then combine those statistics with the "successful" stats from states like Florida, and present those to the legislature next session in an effort to reduce/eliminate PIP for chiropractors in Oregon. It already happened in this state with worker's compensation, it CAN and WILL happen to PIP. Right now...Oregon has approx 1500 licensed Chiropractors. Do you realize that less than 500 are active, dues paying members of the OCA?! (the OCA is who funds ALL of Vern's political activities!!!). The OCA consists of a 12-member board, two office staff...and some volunteers on committees. THAT'S IT FOLKS...!! That is all that stands between you and the multi-trillion dollar auto industry...(insurance industry, pharmaceutical industry, and food industry, etc.). So, Ask NOT what your profession and state association can do for YOU--ask what YOU can do for your profession and state association (thank you ). If even 200 of you joined TODAY...Vern would IMMEDIATELY have enough resources to fund a CRITICAL study through OHSU, contribute to key legislators, and continue his work to re-establish worker's compensation for all of us. These are the things your OCA is working on...but, we need your help. So, unless you think the world is ending in 2012....the time to step-up, is NOW! M. s, D.C. IME increase> > > > > > > > > > > > The increase as of late in IME’s has been enormous in our office. We have more patients going to IME’s than not at this point. I used to NEVER have an IME requested of my patients. There is something in the water. Anyone else noticing this to a high degree as of late?> > > > > > > > I mean cases that are 8 visits in with pain levels of 5-6 of 10 and they’re getting IMEd.......uuughhh.> > > > > > > > ph Medlin D.C.> >> -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Had an unfavorable IME come back today (go figure). The funny thing is that the cost of the IME was greater than finishing the recommended treatment plan of 1x/2wks for two to four visits (4-8 weeks) to obtain MMI. I'd like to see a system implimented where folks wishing to perform IMEs put their name in a pool. When an IME comes up five names are drawn, two are thrown out by the treating doctor/attorney and two are thrown out by the insurance company requesting the IME, leaving one person to do the IME. This would take the bias out of the system. , DC, FACO > > > > > > Storm clouds, the Oregon Chiropractic Association is being proactive and pre-emptive as per troubled areas in PIP including excessive IMEs, biased IMEs, file reviews and other forms of abuse on the “over side of the fence.†We do not wish to end up like Florida wherein you are reduced to having to receive a referral from a medical professional including a physician’s assistant and limits of care to $2,500….Vern Saboe PS: Have you joined the fight colleagues? Have you joined the OCA? We need your financial help and your ideas call he OCA office and join today…, Vern Saboe if you have specific questions call me any Time Cell > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph Medlin > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:07 AM > > > > To: oregondcs > > > > Subject: IME increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The increase as of late in IME’s has been enormous in our office. We have more patients going to IME’s than not at this point. I used to NEVER have an IME requested of my patients. There is something in the water. Anyone else noticing this to a high degree as of late? > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean cases that are 8 visits in with pain levels of 5-6 of 10 and they’re getting IMEd.......uuughhh. > > > > > > > > > > > > ph Medlin D.C. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Schneider DC > PDX > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 To all is 110%correct the elimination of PIP and/or Chiropractic in PIP across this country is not about quality of health, it is about and has always been about Corperate Money. It is simple which do you think they would rather to pay for per auto injury case, A) $150.00 for a doctors office visit and prescription or $3K to 5K for two to three months of of well documented acute, rebuilding and reconstructive treatment by us? Suprise the answer is A. So please join the OCA and contribute to ChiroPac. This is our time, it is a call to arms. Tony Saboe DC IME rate is increasing across the board and it has everything to do with cost management.I had two different auto insurance adjusters give me the same spiel verbatim concerning two different patients and their potential IMEs.Even with documentation supporting causation, objectively documenting injury supporting medical necessity, and providing outcome markers demonstrating improvement adjusters simply are not reading the submitted documentation (reports). , DC, FACO > >> > Storm clouds, the Oregon Chiropractic Association is being proactive and pre-emptive as per troubled areas in PIP including excessive IMEs, biased IMEs, file reviews and other forms of abuse on the “over side of the fence.†We do not wish to end up like Florida wherein you are reduced to having to receive a referral from a medical professional including a physician’s assistant and limits of care to $2,500….Vern Saboe PS: Have you joined the fight colleagues? Have you joined the OCA? We need your financial help and your ideas call he OCA office and join today…, Vern Saboe if you have specific questions call me any Time Cell > > > > > > > > From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph Medlin > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:07 AM> > To: oregondcs > > Subject: IME increase> > > > > > > > > > > > The increase as of late in IME’s has been enormous in our office. We have more patients going to IME’s than not at this point. I used to NEVER have an IME requested of my patients. There is something in the water. Anyone else noticing this to a high degree as of late?> > > > > > > > I mean cases that are 8 visits in with pain levels of 5-6 of 10 and they’re getting IMEd.......uuughhh.> > > > > > > > ph Medlin D.C.> >> -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012  Vern, Just wanted to repeat to everyone what I told you -- Thanks for helping me make the decision to join the OCA! It's the right thing to do -- join with all our colleagues to fight for our rights. None of us can afford to be on the sidelines. Christian Mathisen, D.C. IME increase> > > > > > > > > > > > The increase as of late in IME’s has been enormous in our office. We have more patients going to IME’s than not at this point. I used to NEVER have an IME requested of my patients. There is something in the water. Anyone else noticing this to a high degree as of late?> > > > > > > > I mean cases that are 8 visits in with pain levels of 5-6 of 10 and they’re getting IMEd.......uuughhh.> > > > > > > > ph Medlin D.C.> >> -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Agreed, the welfare of the patient is paramount whatever the venue cash to PIP and when working with the auto PIP insurers and policy makers e.g. state legislators we frame the issue around what is in the best interest of Oregon consumers/patients…so yes absolutely which is why I often state that we run the risk of losing the privilege of treating Oregon consumers who have been in a MVA…..Vern From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Chuck Simpson, DCSent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:26 PMTo: oregondcs Subject: IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the " IME-PIP " issue is not about " us, " it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus " comfort zone, " e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DCBeaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results.Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Of course this is about patients’ health. The fact is that there is a specific health care provider that is more effective than any other in the therapy and rehab of these injured patients that is being singled out in regards to the ordering of these IME exams. In turn, the patient’s health and recovery ultimately suffers. However, making this only about the patient is also short sighted. There’s nothing wrong with fighting for parity when there is a clear and well demarcated bias taking place. This is a situation of mutual exclusiveness: We cannot have a high level of patient care with this type of profession bias taking place. They are inseparable. Not to mention, I wonder how much massage you think is too much. 1hour/week to me doesn’t seem excessive while going through rehabilitation. 1hour/2-3X/week yes...But, clarify please what you deem to be excessive in this regard. Thanks, ph Medlin D.C. From: Chuck Simpson, DC Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:26 PM To: oregondcs Subject: IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the "IME-PIP" issue is not about "us," it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus "comfort zone," e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DC Beaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results. Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Good post Joe, These are the types of questions the OCA Insurance Relations Committee with address and answer likely achieving policy statements in regards to these clinical issues e.g., how much massage is enough? How much is excessive? When are passive modalities indicated? When are they not indicated? Are they indicated on every single case? When should passive modalities end? When are they duplicative? Is that therapy modality really being described and billed appropriately? We as an association are going to be proactive and address these issues before they are addressed for us by those outside the profession. Vern Saboe From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph MedlinSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:55 AMTo: oregondcs ; Chuck Simpson, DCSubject: Re: IME increase Of course this is about patients’ health. The fact is that there is a specific health care provider that is more effective than any other in the therapy and rehab of these injured patients that is being singled out in regards to the ordering of these IME exams. In turn, the patient’s health and recovery ultimately suffers. However, making this only about the patient is also short sighted. There’s nothing wrong with fighting for parity when there is a clear and well demarcated bias taking place. This is a situation of mutual exclusiveness: We cannot have a high level of patient care with this type of profession bias taking place. They are inseparable. Not to mention, I wonder how much massage you think is too much. 1hour/week to me doesn’t seem excessive while going through rehabilitation. 1hour/2-3X/week yes...But, clarify please what you deem to be excessive in this regard. Thanks, ph Medlin D.C. From: Chuck Simpson, DC Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:26 PMTo: oregondcs Subject: IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the " IME-PIP " issue is not about " us, " it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus " comfort zone, " e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DCBeaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results.Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Maybe this has something to do with the increase in IMEs? This list if from an article by Mark Studin, DC in The American Chiropractor from last year.http://www.theamericanchiropractor.com/articles-personal-injury/5218-personal-injury-collections-by-state-2010-comparison-of-collections-vs-cost-of-living-analysis.htmlI counted 7 states which have a higher collection rate than Oregon ($175) for PI visits. I'm sure this puts us in the bullseye for the insurance companies to target for reducing this amount. Notice how Florida led the pack at $250 per visit.Jamey Dyson, DC Good post Joe, These are the types of questions the OCA Insurance Relations Committee with address and answer likely achieving policy statements in regards to these clinical issues e.g., how much massage is enough? How much is excessive? When are passive modalities indicated? When are they not indicated? Are they indicated on every single case? When should passive modalities end? When are they duplicative? Is that therapy modality really being described and billed appropriately? We as an association are going to be proactive and address these issues before they are addressed for us by those outside the profession. Vern Saboe From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph MedlinSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:55 AMTo: oregondcs ; Chuck Simpson, DCSubject: Re: IME increase Of course this is about patients’ health. The fact is that there is a specific health care provider that is more effective than any other in the therapy and rehab of these injured patients that is being singled out in regards to the ordering of these IME exams. In turn, the patient’s health and recovery ultimately suffers. However, making this only about the patient is also short sighted. There’s nothing wrong with fighting for parity when there is a clear and well demarcated bias taking place. This is a situation of mutual exclusiveness: We cannot have a high level of patient care with this type of profession bias taking place. They are inseparable. Not to mention, I wonder how much massage you think is too much. 1hour/week to me doesn’t seem excessive while going through rehabilitation. 1hour/2-3X/week yes...But, clarify please what you deem to be excessive in this regard. Thanks, ph Medlin D.C. From: Chuck Simpson, DC Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:26 PMTo: oregondcs Subject: IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the "IME-PIP" issue is not about "us," it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus "comfort zone," e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DCBeaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results.Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Good intel Jamey thanks! Vern Saboe From: Jamey Dyson Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:33 PMTo: vsaboeCc: 'ph Medlin'; oregondcs ; 'Chuck Simpson, DC'Subject: Re: IME increase Maybe this has something to do with the increase in IMEs? This list if from an article by Mark Studin, DC in The American Chiropractor from last year.http://www.theamericanchiropractor.com/articles-personal-injury/5218-personal-injury-collections-by-state-2010-comparison-of-collections-vs-cost-of-living-analysis.html I counted 7 states which have a higher collection rate than Oregon ($175) for PI visits. I'm sure this puts us in the bullseye for the insurance companies to target for reducing this amount. Notice how Florida led the pack at $250 per visit. Jamey Dyson, DC Good post Joe, These are the types of questions the OCA Insurance Relations Committee with address and answer likely achieving policy statements in regards to these clinical issues e.g., how much massage is enough? How much is excessive? When are passive modalities indicated? When are they not indicated? Are they indicated on every single case? When should passive modalities end? When are they duplicative? Is that therapy modality really being described and billed appropriately? We as an association are going to be proactive and address these issues before they are addressed for us by those outside the profession. Vern Saboe From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph MedlinSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:55 AMTo: oregondcs ; Chuck Simpson, DCSubject: Re: IME increase Of course this is about patients’ health. The fact is that there is a specific health care provider that is more effective than any other in the therapy and rehab of these injured patients that is being singled out in regards to the ordering of these IME exams. In turn, the patient’s health and recovery ultimately suffers. However, making this only about the patient is also short sighted. There’s nothing wrong with fighting for parity when there is a clear and well demarcated bias taking place. This is a situation of mutual exclusiveness: We cannot have a high level of patient care with this type of profession bias taking place. They are inseparable. Not to mention, I wonder how much massage you think is too much. 1hour/week to me doesn’t seem excessive while going through rehabilitation. 1hour/2-3X/week yes...But, clarify please what you deem to be excessive in this regard. Thanks, ph Medlin D.C. From: Chuck Simpson, DC Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:26 PMTo: oregondcs Subject: IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the " IME-PIP " issue is not about " us, " it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus " comfort zone, " e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DCBeaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results.Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 And how much will the PT visits the orthopedist sent Dr Ann 's patient to cost?Dr Annette SimardMaybe this has something to do with the increase in IMEs? This list if from an article by Mark Studin, DC in The American Chiropractor from last year.http://www.theamericanchiropractor.com/articles-personal-injury/5218-personal-injury-collections-by-state-2010-comparison-of-collections-vs-cost-of-living-analysis.htmlI counted 7 states which have a higher collection rate than Oregon ($175) for PI visits. I'm sure this puts us in the bullseye for the insurance companies to target for reducing this amount. Notice how Florida led the pack at $250 per visit.<PastedGraphic-1.tiff>Jamey Dyson, DC Good post Joe, These are the types of questions the OCA Insurance Relations Committee with address and answer likely achieving policy statements in regards to these clinical issues e.g., how much massage is enough? How much is excessive? When are passive modalities indicated? When are they not indicated? Are they indicated on every single case? When should passive modalities end? When are they duplicative? Is that therapy modality really being described and billed appropriately? We as an association are going to be proactive and address these issues before they are addressed for us by those outside the profession. Vern Saboe From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph MedlinSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:55 AMTo: oregondcs ; Chuck Simpson, DCSubject: Re: IME increase Of course this is about patients’ health. The fact is that there is a specific health care provider that is more effective than any other in the therapy and rehab of these injured patients that is being singled out in regards to the ordering of these IME exams. In turn, the patient’s health and recovery ultimately suffers. However, making this only about the patient is also short sighted. There’s nothing wrong with fighting for parity when there is a clear and well demarcated bias taking place. This is a situation of mutual exclusiveness: We cannot have a high level of patient care with this type of profession bias taking place. They are inseparable. Not to mention, I wonder how much massage you think is too much. 1hour/week to me doesn’t seem excessive while going through rehabilitation. 1hour/2-3X/week yes...But, clarify please what you deem to be excessive in this regard. Thanks, ph Medlin D.C. From: Chuck Simpson, DC Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:26 PMTo: oregondcs Subject: IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the "IME-PIP" issue is not about "us," it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus "comfort zone," e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DCBeaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results.Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 good question....Doesn’t seem to be an “Overutilization” problem when it comes to 3X/week for 4months of PT.....not even saying it should be considered such...I’m just sayin. ph Medlin D.C. From: Annette Simard Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:04 PM To: Jamey Dyson Cc: vsaboe ; 'ph Medlin' ; oregondcs ; 'Chuck Simpson, DC' Subject: Re: IME increase And how much will the PT visits the orthopedist sent Dr Ann 's patient to cost? Dr Annette Simard Maybe this has something to do with the increase in IMEs? This list if from an article by Mark Studin, DC in The American Chiropractor from last year. http://www.theamericanchiropractor.com/articles-personal-injury/5218-personal-injury-collections-by-state-2010-comparison-of-collections-vs-cost-of-living-analysis.html I counted 7 states which have a higher collection rate than Oregon ($175) for PI visits. I'm sure this puts us in the bullseye for the insurance companies to target for reducing this amount. Notice how Florida led the pack at $250 per visit.<PastedGraphic-1.tiff> Jamey Dyson, DC Good post Joe, These are the types of questions the OCA Insurance Relations Committee with address and answer likely achieving policy statements in regards to these clinical issues e.g., how much massage is enough? How much is excessive? When are passive modalities indicated? When are they not indicated? Are they indicated on every single case? When should passive modalities end? When are they duplicative? Is that therapy modality really being described and billed appropriately? We as an association are going to be proactive and address these issues before they are addressed for us by those outside the profession. Vern Saboe From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph MedlinSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:55 AMTo: oregondcs ; Chuck Simpson, DCSubject: Re: IME increase Of course this is about patients’ health. The fact is that there is a specific health care provider that is more effective than any other in the therapy and rehab of these injured patients that is being singled out in regards to the ordering of these IME exams. In turn, the patient’s health and recovery ultimately suffers. However, making this only about the patient is also short sighted. There’s nothing wrong with fighting for parity when there is a clear and well demarcated bias taking place. This is a situation of mutual exclusiveness: We cannot have a high level of patient care with this type of profession bias taking place. They are inseparable. Not to mention, I wonder how much massage you think is too much. 1hour/week to me doesn’t seem excessive while going through rehabilitation. 1hour/2-3X/week yes...But, clarify please what you deem to be excessive in this regard. Thanks, ph Medlin D.C. From: Chuck Simpson, DC Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:26 PM To: oregondcs Subject: IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the "IME-PIP" issue is not about "us," it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus "comfort zone," e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DC Beaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results. Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 AMEN.Not to mention that I am quite skilled in dealing with shoulder therapy. I do sometimes send patients to good PT's for exercise rehab WHEN it is appropriate as I am not really set up to do that more active rehab stuff.But frankly, I'm always shocked to see what PT has to offer my patients. Usually it is quite minimal and simplistic. And they charge a huge fee for each session, often with the PT therapist 'supervising' 3 or 4 patients simultaneously... Nice gig if you can get it.Ann DCTo: "Jamey Dyson" , "ph Medlin" , oregondcs , "Chuck Simpson, DC" Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:04:35 PMSubject: Re: IME increase And how much will the PT visits the orthopedist sent Dr Ann 's patient to cost?Dr Annette SimardMaybe this has something to do with the increase in IMEs? This list if from an article by Mark Studin, DC in The American Chiropractor from last year.http://www.theamericanchiropractor.com/articles-personal-injury/5218-personal-injury-collections-by-state-2010-comparison-of-collections-vs-cost-of-living-analysis.htmlI counted 7 states which have a higher collection rate than Oregon ($175) for PI visits. I'm sure this puts us in the bullseye for the insurance companies to target for reducing this amount. Notice how Florida led the pack at $250 per visit.<PastedGraphic-1.tiff>Jamey Dyson, DC Good post Joe, These are the types of questions the OCA Insurance Relations Committee with address and answer likely achieving policy statements in regards to these clinical issues e.g., how much massage is enough? How much is excessive? When are passive modalities indicated? When are they not indicated? Are they indicated on every single case? When should passive modalities end? When are they duplicative? Is that therapy modality really being described and billed appropriately? We as an association are going to be proactive and address these issues before they are addressed for us by those outside the profession. Vern Saboe From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph MedlinSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:55 AMTo: oregondcs ; Chuck Simpson, DCSubject: Re: IME increase Of course this is about patients’ health. The fact is that there is a specific health care provider that is more effective than any other in the therapy and rehab of these injured patients that is being singled out in regards to the ordering of these IME exams. In turn, the patient’s health and recovery ultimately suffers. However, making this only about the patient is also short sighted. There’s nothing wrong with fighting for parity when there is a clear and well demarcated bias taking place. This is a situation of mutual exclusiveness: We cannot have a high level of patient care with this type of profession bias taking place. They are inseparable. Not to mention, I wonder how much massage you think is too much. 1hour/week to me doesn’t seem excessive while going through rehabilitation. 1hour/2-3X/week yes...But, clarify please what you deem to be excessive in this regard. Thanks, ph Medlin D.C. From: Chuck Simpson, DC Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:26 PMTo: oregondcs Subject: IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the "IME-PIP" issue is not about "us," it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus "comfort zone," e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DCBeaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results.Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012  The reality is that the PT's/MD's/DO's/NP's etc...don't HAVE to prove themselves clinically effective OR cost effective (or even SAFE for that matter). They just don't... We are not on an even playing field with them. It's what Vern calls "cultural authority." (and WE don't have it--yet). Whereas WE have to prove EVERYTHING we do; they do not. Its as simple and unfair as that... Even "if" the PIP industry WANTED to cut PT's billings/access, how could they?! They would have to attack the entire medical profession (because MD's use and refer to PT's). The reality is...THEY STAND TOGETHER...we do not. Again, the only thing standing between you and complete annihilation of PIP in Oregon is the OCA--an organization of approx 485 dues paying members (of the 1500 licensed chiros), and approx 25 lobby/staff/board/committee members working daily to protect everyone's rights (even those who don't participate or pay their share). THAT'S IT!!! But, the OCA has been INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE since the two associations merged. We have a new direction, new leadership, and have established real friendships and political allies in Salem...(thank you Vern and the Legislative Committee). Don't you think EVERY PT in this state belongs to the OMA? I honestly don't know if "all" of them do...but, I would bet the MAJORITY does (that's how they maintain their cushy jobs and high reimbursement rates). So, as "frustrating" as it is seeing those who are clinically inferior to us riding in the front of the bus...its going to stay that way until the OCA represents AT LEAST 50% or more of our profession! Otherwise, the legislature will continue to see us as "representing" only a small percentage of the profession...(because the MAJORITY of our profession continues to sit on their hands--and wallets ) --and wonders everyday what will happen next to them, their family and their practice). (:-) M. s, D.C. IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the "IME-PIP" issue is not about "us," it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus "comfort zone," e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DC Beaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results. Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Here Here!! ph Medlin D.C. From: M. s, D.C. Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:52 AM To: oregondcs Subject: Re: IME increase  The reality is that the PT's/MD's/DO's/NP's etc...don't HAVE to prove themselves clinically effective OR cost effective (or even SAFE for that matter). They just don't... We are not on an even playing field with them. It's what Vern calls "cultural authority." (and WE don't have it--yet). Whereas WE have to prove EVERYTHING we do; they do not. Its as simple and unfair as that... Even "if" the PIP industry WANTED to cut PT's billings/access, how could they?! They would have to attack the entire medical profession (because MD's use and refer to PT's). The reality is...THEY STAND TOGETHER...we do not. Again, the only thing standing between you and complete annihilation of PIP in Oregon is the OCA--an organization of approx 485 dues paying members (of the 1500 licensed chiros), and approx 25 lobby/staff/board/committee members working daily to protect everyone's rights (even those who don't participate or pay their share). THAT'S IT!!! But, the OCA has been INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE since the two associations merged. We have a new direction, new leadership, and have established real friendships and political allies in Salem...(thank you Vern and the Legislative Committee). Don't you think EVERY PT in this state belongs to the OMA? I honestly don't know if "all" of them do...but, I would bet the MAJORITY does (that's how they maintain their cushy jobs and high reimbursement rates). So, as "frustrating" as it is seeing those who are clinically inferior to us riding in the front of the bus...its going to stay that way until the OCA represents AT LEAST 50% or more of our profession! Otherwise, the legislature will continue to see us as "representing" only a small percentage of the profession...(because the MAJORITY of our profession continues to sit on their hands--and wallets ) --and wonders everyday what will happen next to them, their family and their practice). (:-) M. s, D.C. IME increase Vern, OR DCs, All, IMHO, the "IME-PIP" issue is not about "us," it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus "comfort zone," e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan. C Simpson, DC Beaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results. Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Thank you for taking the time to lay out the hard nosed truth relative to this IME/PIP issue here in Oregon. What will it take to get the remaining 1000 docs to join the OCA? Where is there pride, their conscience? How can these non members watch as there colleagues go to battle for them year in and year out-fighting to save our profession for the good of all health consumers. We need to find a creative way to bring these non members into the OCA-to entice them to do what they surly know is the right thing. Now is the time to stand united!! All around us the storm clouds are forming and our rivals are gathering strength. Schneider DCPDX  Here Here!!  ph Medlin D.C.  From: M. s, D.C. Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:52 AM To: oregondcs Subject: Re: IME increase    The reality is that the PT's/MD's/DO's/NP's etc...don't HAVE to prove themselves clinically effective OR cost effective (or even SAFE for that matter). They just don't... We are not on an even playing field with them. It's what Vern calls " cultural authority. " (and WE don't have it--yet).  Whereas WE have to prove EVERYTHING we do; they do not. Its as simple and unfair as that...  Even " if " the PIP industry WANTED to cut PT's billings/access, how could they?! They would have to attack the entire medical profession (because MD's use and refer to PT's). The reality is...THEY STAND TOGETHER...we do not.  Again, the only thing standing between you and complete annihilation of PIP in Oregon is the OCA--an organization of approx 485 dues paying members (of the 1500 licensed chiros), and approx 25 lobby/staff/board/committee members working daily to protect everyone's rights (even those who don't participate or pay their share). THAT'S IT!!!  But, the OCA has been INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE since the two associations merged. We have a new direction, new leadership, and have established real friendships and political allies in Salem...(thank you Vern and the Legislative Committee).  Don't you think EVERY PT in this state belongs to the OMA? I honestly don't know if " all " of them do...but, I would bet the MAJORITY does (that's how they maintain their cushy jobs and high reimbursement rates).  So, as " frustrating " as it is seeing those who are clinically inferior to us riding in the front of the bus...its going to stay that way until the OCA represents AT LEAST 50% or more of our profession! Otherwise, the legislature will continue to see us as " representing " only a small percentage of the profession...(because the MAJORITY of our profession continues to sit on their hands--and wallets ) --and wonders everyday what will happen next to them, their family and their practice). (:-)  M. s, D.C. IME increase   Vern, OR DCs, All,  IMHO, the " IME-PIP " issue is not about " us, " it's about patients injured in MVAs. As long as the focus is on the survival of chiropractors in PIP, it will look like a typical turf battle with all of the attendant $$ issues. If we keep the focus on patient care, the evidence for it and the costs of it, I think we have a powerful argument...and a significant responsibility to reign in outlier DCs who feel the need to treat in a way that exceed our professional consensus " comfort zone, " e.g. 1 hour massages throughout a 4-month treatment plan.  C Simpson, DC Beaverton, OR A. Simpson, DC | Vice President, Medical DirectorThe CHP Group | Smart Solutions. Healthy Results. Like us on Facebook | Follow us on Twitter | Follow us on LinkedIn | www.chpgroup.com csimpson@... O | C6600 SW 105th Ave, Ste 115 | Beaverton, OR 97008     -- Schneider DC PDX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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