Re: Pavel Tsatsouline Training Ideas

January 23, 2003

Dr. Siff,

I am glad Mike brought this up, as Tsatsouline has cited your work and

some Russian Scientist in his book " Power to the People " I will get it

out and refresh my memory as to the exact areas, of course you may

already know. Have you read " Power to the People " or " The Russian

Kettlebell Challenge " and if so would you give your thoughts on the

theory of the techniques employed?

[Yes, I have read those books and I have met with Pavel. You will have to

give me the specific techniques in which you are interested, since a fair

analysis of any book can take many days to write. Mel Siff]

Wes Kersey

Memphis, TN

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike on:

I have a few questions regarding the training ideas of Pavel

Tsatsouline. I frequent his website

quite often, and I must admit some of his training methods seem

unorthodox, but I am interested

in everyone's ideas and experiences with some of his training methods.

First off, has anyone tried the " synaptic facilitation " method?

Essentially, you perform a movement

(for example, squats) with approximately 60-80% of your maximum several

times a day. The

thought process is that your body better learns the movement, and

therefore you become stronger at

it (obviously this is quite dumbed down, if you would like to read the

article, you can find it at

www.dragondoor.com, look in the articles section under " Grease the

Groove " ).

So basically if I work at a gym, anytime I walk past the squat rack I

would load up some weight, bang

out a couple of reps, and in the end I would be stronger.

Another idea is that of more " proprioceptive " training, where one starts

off with very light weights,

and performs them with the eyes closed, slowly working to increase the

weight.

Again, any thoughts, ideas, experiences or training advice on these or

other training methods would

be appreciated.

Mel Siff wrote:

<All of this hypothesising omits to mention a few basic facts, namely

that technique changes subtly with

each different load you use, and far-from-maximal training using the

same acceleration will not produce

adequate adaptation to cope with much heavier loads. Did he cite any

references to support this idea?

It almost sounds as if this idea is a misapplication of the power or

speed training method used by

Louie - the problem, of course, is that this type of training is

not the only type used by Louie

and the Westsiders.>

* Please sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

wish them to be published!

January 23, 2003

Mike and Mel,

I looked over the 'Grease the Groove' article and he

does suggest that the " average " person use 60-80% 1RM.

However, he recommends for best results to use > 85%.

Back when I was still considering doing powerlifting

rather than Olympic lifting I tried this one day for

the bench press. I used around 85-90% 1RM and did only

singles. I think I did 10 sets of singles over a

2-hour period. It seemed to work. I was also sore the

next day. BTW, I believe he cited Verkoshansky in the

article.

I never tried the lifting blindfolded technique so I

cannot comment on that.

I have also tried the basic workout from " Power to the

People " where he recommends doing 2 sets of an

exercise every day for 5 days, then take the weekend

off, then resume another 5 days or so. After 10

workouts you should start a new cycle. The second set

should be lighter than the first. The reps are to be

in the range of 4-6.

This concept was based on Zatsiorsky's idea of training as

often as possible while staying as fresh as possible. For a

basic strength training plan I found this to be effective. I

generally experienced a 5 lb. increase in my 5RM after

every 10 workouts (about 2 weeks per cycle).

I also attempted the Smolov squat routine but could

not finish it. It was too brutal.

Mike Sasin

Westminster, CO

--------

Mike on wrote:

> I have a few questions regarding the training ideas

> of Pavel Tsatsouline. I frequent his website

> quite often, and I must admit some of his training

> methods seem unorthodox, but I am interested

> in everyone's ideas and experiences with some of his

> training methods.

>

> First off, has anyone tried the " synaptic

> facilitation " method? Essentially, you perform a

> movement

> (for example, squats) with approximately 60-80% of

> your maximum several times a day. The

> thought process is that your body better learns the

> movement, and therefore you become stronger at

> it (obviously this is quite dumbed down, if you

> would like to read the article, you can find it at

> www.dragondoor.com, look in the articles section

> under " Grease the Groove " ).

>

> So basically if I work at a gym, anytime I walk past

> the squat rack I would load up some weight, bang

> out a couple of reps, and in the end I would be

> stronger.

>

> Another idea is that of more " proprioceptive "

> training, where one starts off with very light

> weights,

> and performs them with the eyes closed, slowly

> working to increase the weight.

>

> Again, any thoughts, ideas, experiences or training

> advice on these or other training methods would

> be appreciated.

>

> [All of this hypothesising omits to mention a few

> basic facts, namely that technique changes subtly

> with

> each different load you use, and far-from-maximal

> training using the same acceleration will not

> produce

> adequate adaptation to cope with much heavier loads.

> Did he cite any references to support this idea?

> It almost sounds as if this idea is a misapplication

> of the power or speed training method used by

> Louie - the problem, of course, is that this

> type of training is not the only type used by Louie

> and the Westsiders. Mel Siff]

>

> Mike on, MS, CSCS

* Please sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

wish them to be published!

January 23, 2003

Dr. Siff,

OK, these are in relation to Olympic lifting:

1. Cycling as stated In PTP or " normal " periodization programs as seen

everywhere

2. Rest intervals between sets in the comp lifts sn & c & j.. how long?? I

am sure the article you posted earlier today answers that one "

Hypertrophy -Strength " but just checking.

[These summaries are too sketchy to allow anyone to make any fair

comment. Question 2 - the rest between lifts often depends on the rules

of the game, which never allow more than 3 minutes rest between attempts,

depending on number of competitors in one's division, Research shows that

rest periods of between 3-8 minutes are optimal, depending on one's

bodymass (heavier lifters take longer to recover). Mel Siff]

Wes Kersey

Memphis, TN

-----Original Message-----

From: Wesley Kersey

Dr. Siff, I am glad Mike brought this up, as Tsatsouline has cited your work and

some Russian Scientist in his book " Power to the People " I will get it

out and refresh my memory as to the exact areas, of course you may

already know. Have you read " Power to the People " or " The Russian

Kettlebell Challenge " and if so would you give your thoughts on the

theory of the techniques employed?

[Yes, I have read those books and I have met with Pavel. You will have

to give me the specific techniques in which you are interested, since a

fair analysis of any book can take many days to write. Mel Siff]

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike on:

I have a few questions regarding the training ideas of Pavel

Tsatsouline. I frequent his website

quite often, and I must admit some of his training methods seem

unorthodox, but I am interested

in everyone's ideas and experiences with some of his training methods.

First off, has anyone tried the " synaptic facilitation " method?

Essentially, you perform a movement

(for example, squats) with approximately 60-80% of your maximum several

times a day. The

thought process is that your body better learns the movement, and

therefore you become stronger at

it (obviously this is quite dumbed down, if you would like to read the

article, you can find it at

www.dragondoor.com, look in the articles section under " Grease the

Groove " ).

So basically if I work at a gym, anytime I walk past the squat rack I

would load up some weight, bang

out a couple of reps, and in the end I would be stronger.

Another idea is that of more " proprioceptive " training, where one starts

off with very light weights,

and performs them with the eyes closed, slowly working to increase the

weight.

Again, any thoughts, ideas, experiences or training advice on these or

other training methods would

be appreciated.

Mel Siff wrote:

<All of this hypothesising omits to mention a few basic facts, namely

that technique changes subtly with

each different load you use, and far-from-maximal training using the

same acceleration will not produce

adequate adaptation to cope with much heavier loads. Did he cite any

references to support this idea?

It almost sounds as if this idea is a misapplication of the power or

speed training method used by

Louie - the problem, of course, is that this type of training is

not the only type used by Louie

and the Westsiders.>

* Please sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

wish them to be published!

January 23, 2003

,

I'm glad you brought all that up. While I would

describe myself as a Pavel " fan, " I am not a " blind

follower. " I am not a personal trainer or sports

scientist, just a guy who has trained with weights for

over half of my life and never seemed to get

satisfactory results. Pavel's books kept coming up on

my Amazon " recommendations " after I bought one book on

Olympic lifting. I initially resisted buying the book

in part because of the marketing hype that went with.

Finally, I said what the heck and bought it. For me,

the concepts were " new " because my prior experience

with training methods was through the popular media

which methods, as you may know, are all based on

bodybuilding. My goals at the time and currently are

not to build freaky big muscles but functional

strength.

I think the 40-50% increase in strength through

hyperirradiation is overblown. It helps, but not to

that extent. If I am trying to finish a tough squat

rep I find that gripping the bar as tightly as I can

helps complete the rep.

I figure his books are enough so I never went to his

seminars or purchased videos. I don't recall

discussion of the " tail tuck " but I would never do

that.

I only like one ab exercise that Pavel recommends and

that is the ab wheel. I actually use a barbell for

these so I can add a little bit of weight. I don't

enjoy working abs so anything else is superfluous.

I don't do power breathing.

As far as his position on number of reps, I have been

interested in this topic. My personal spin about

Pavel's message is this: There is no question that

" Power to the People " was written for a mass audience

and not for athletes. Your average trainee probably

wants to gain some strength but not get " too big, " and

not spend hours in the gym.

However, by following a standard " bodybuilding " program

of 5 exercises per body part, with 5 sets per exercise,

8-12 reps per set, you:

1. will get big due to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy;

2. not get very strong; and

3. spend lots of time in the gym.

From my own experience, this is true. When I first began

training almost 20 years ago I used Arnold's " program, "

which had overtraining written all over it. I spent 1.5 hours

in the gym each day, my muscles bloated, but the strength gains

stopped. Now my workouts are under an hour and I have

been making decent strength gains.

Mike Sasin

Westminster, CO

--- -----

son wrote:

> Mike, I recently went to a couple of seminars by Pavel

> and, while I thought some of his ideas were good or

> interesting,

> some of his claims I didn't agree with, and I

> thought a lot of his show was more marketing than

> anything else.

> Some of his more memorable statements or beliefs

> that I can recall were:

>

> -Anything over 5 reps is bodybuilding and not needed

> in training (the audience was largely slightly

> overweight or not in very good shape men and women)

>

> -You can increase your strength 40-50% by

> deliberately tensing mucles other than the ones you

> are

> working directly, i.e. tightening the thighs when

> doing grip work or by " gripping " the floor tightly

> when doing push-ups

>

> -It doesn't really matter if you do all your sets at

> once in one training session or if you break them up

> and

> do them over the course of a day

>

> -He seemed to be saying one should use a posterior

> pelvic tilt in almost all exercises including

> overhead

> pressing and squatting when he kept advocating to

> deliberately " tuck your tail under "

>

> [immediate comment - NEVER do any serious lifting or

> weight training like that! This is exactly the

> opposite of what is safe and desirable. Posterior

> tilting of the pelvis should be confined mainly to

> crunches. Mel Siff]

>

> -The best exercise you can do for your abs is the

> Janda sit-up while using his " power breathing "

> technique

> which was basically short and choppy repetitive

> forceful exhalations with the tongue at the top of

> the mouth

> where the result would be a hissing sound being made

>

> [The Janda sit-up has been carefully researched and

> shown to offer far less abdominal exercise than

> hitherto

> has been claimed. Mel Siff]

>

> -You can train the major lifts many times a week, he

> cited the Russian powerlifting team which he says

> bench

> presses 8 times per week

>

> -He had a lot of different breathing techniques such

> as his " power breathing " and " paradoxical breathing "

> which

> involved a forceful inhalation during the

> concentric phase of the exercise, which he claimed

> could increase

> strength dramatically though he never really

> mentioned using the Valsalva maneuver

>

> -In a two hour session on ab training, about 95% of

> the exercises he went over were variations of

> crunches

> with varied breathing techniques

>

> I'd be curious to hear what other people think about

> the above statements?

>

> Overall I thought Pavel was an interesting character

> and I agreed with some of the things he said and he

> seemed like

> a nice guy, but I didn't think he had any

> revolutionary training concepts. He was against the

> ab sucking in TvA

> nonsense, which was good and he did dispell some

> other common myths as well. He was very animated and

> good at

> marketing and selling his ideas to the audience and

> definitely used the " mysterious Russian " act and

> accent to his

> advantage. As a whole, I thought it was probably

> more a lesson in effective marketing than effective

> training.

>

> son

> EndZone Athletics

> Seattle, WA

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

> From: Mike on

>

> I have a few questions regarding the training

> ideas of Pavel Tsatsouline. I frequent his website

> quite often, and I must admit some of his training

> methods seem unorthodox, but I am interested

> in everyone's ideas and experiences with some of

> his training methods.

>

> First off, has anyone tried the " synaptic

> facilitation " method? Essentially, you perform a

> movement

> (for example, squats) with approximately 60-80% of

> your maximum several times a day. The

> thought process is that your body better learns

> the movement, and therefore you become stronger at

> it (obviously this is quite dumbed down, if you

> would like to read the article, you can find it at

> www.dragondoor.com, look in the articles section

> under " Grease the Groove " ).

>

> So basically if I work at a gym, anytime I walk

> past the squat rack I would load up some weight,

> bang

> out a couple of reps, and in the end I would be

> stronger.

>

> Another idea is that of more " proprioceptive "

> training, where one starts off with very light

> weights,

> and performs them with the eyes closed, slowly

> working to increase the weight.

>

> Again, any thoughts, ideas, experiences or

> training advice on these or other training methods

> would

> be appreciated.

>

> [All of this hypothesising omits to mention a few

> basic facts, namely that technique changes subtly

> with

> each different load you use, and far-from-maximal

> training using the same acceleration will not

> produce

> adequate adaptation to cope with much heavier

> loads. Did he cite any references to support this

> idea?

> It almost sounds as if this idea is a

> misapplication of the power or speed training method

> used by

> Louie - the problem, of course, is that

> this type of training is not the only type used by

> Louie

> and the Westsiders. Mel Siff]

>

> Mike on, MS, CSCS

* Please sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

wish them to be published!

January 23, 2003

In " Russian Kettlebell Challenge " , pp 30 - 31, Pavel mentions

training with light weights, 26 - 32% 1RM, for 80 - 100+ reps a week,

with a heavy session once a month or so. Apparently this trains the

central pattern generators, and so makes the movement more efficient.

It sounds like a good way to avoid overtraining.

I have never heard of any weightlifters or sports teams training like

this.

Mel, do you have any comment on this technique?

[it also looks like a good way not to become very strong and powerful.

As I also mentioned before and provided some Russian research on,

training with seriously submaximal weights like that involve

different movement patterns from those used in circamaximal and

maximal lifts, and do not improve movement efficiency with all

loads. What, by the way, is a " central pattern generator " ? Does

he provide any references for this concept? Mel Siff]

Thank you,

Mt. Gambier

-------

Wesley Kersey wrote:

> Dr. Siff,

>

> I am glad Mike brought this up, as Tsatsouline has cited your work and

> some Russian Scientist in his book " Power to the People " I will get it

> out and refresh my memory as to the exact areas, of course you may

> already know. Have you read " Power to the People " or " The Russian

> Kettlebell Challenge " and if so would you give your thoughts on the

> theory of the techniques employed?

Mel Siff wrote:

<Yes, I have read those books and I have met with Pavel. You will

have to give me the specific techniques in which you are interested, since

a fair analysis of any book can take many days to write. >

* Please sign all letters with genuine full name and city if you wish them

to be published

January 23, 2003

Sasin wrote:

<I have also tried the basic workout from " Power to the

People " where he recommends doing 2 sets of an

exercise every day for 5 days, then take the weekend

off, then resume another 5 days or so. After 10

workouts you should start a new cycle. The second set

should be lighter than the first. The reps are to be

in the range of 4-6.>

** Do these 2 sets exclude warmup sets? What is Pavel's rationale

for making the first set heavier than the second and final set?

Shanahan

Melbourne

Australia.

January 24, 2003

Shanahan:

<Do these 2 sets exclude warmup sets? What is Pavel's rationale

for making the first set heavier than the second and final set?>

** Right, this excludes warm-ups.

What is Pavel's rationale for making the first set

heavier than the second and final set?

Good question, and one he does not address in the

book. My guess: Pavel is very big on training well

below failure, usually 2 reps below when you would

fail to lift the weight - a concept he calls training

" away from the nerve. "

Using his protocol, you start a cycle with 80% of your

5RM (around 70% of 1RM) and add 5-10 lbs. per workout.

Near the end of the cycles he outlines, you are supposed to

approach, and ultimately surpass, your previous 5RM. So,

as you approach the end of the cycle, it makes sense to

reduce the weight on the second set or risk failing on the

5th rep.

Again, keep in mind the book is meant for the mass

market, which includes people who have never trained

before. I do not know if I qualify as an advanced

lifter, but I usually modify this method where I start

at a higher weight and I generally do not reduce the

weight on the second set until the first set starts to

feel heavy.

Mike Sasin

Westminster, CO

--------

Sasin wrote:

> I have also tried the basic workout from " Power to

> the People " where he recommends doing 2 sets of an

> exercise every day for 5 days, then take the weekend

> off, then resume another 5 days or so. After 10

> workouts you should start a new cycle. The second

> set should be lighter than the first. The reps are to be

> in the range of 4-6.>

January 24, 2003

There was one of his techniques in which I am

particularly interested and that is his " Russian Bear "

program for building mass. Instead of doing 8-12 reps

as in typical hypertrophy programs, he recommends

keeping the reps to 5 but doing multiple sets (10,

sometimes 20) of an exercise and keeping the rest

interval between sets very short (30 seconds, no more

than 90). The intensity is still in the hypertrophy

range of around 70% 1RM. I believe his theory is that

doing only 5 reps keeps fatigue to a minimum so that

you could do more volume than if you did, say 5 sets

of 8.

Now, I realize training for hypertrophy is a long and

complex subject. However, Pavel did not cite any

authority for the Bear program other than an anecdote

about an ex-Soviet warrant officer he knew who trained

this way and gained considerable mass. The answer I am

looking for boils down to the following simple

multiple choice:

NOTE: You may assume that the goal is not to build

strength, endurance or power. The goal is to build mass

in a preparatory cycle prior to doing a strength

cycle.

A - This plan is better than doing 8-12 reps.

B - This plan is NOT better than doing 8-12 reps.

C - This plan should be used in conjunction with 8-12

rep sets.

[Research and experience will give no definitive answer

to those questions, especially since response to exercise

is very individual. Some people, like Olympic lifters also

manage to gain a great deal of muscle mass by training

with many sets for 1-3 reps. Whatever program one uses,

it is important to document one's training and progress to enable

you to refine what you are doing on an ongoing basis and

ensure improvements in the long-term. The periodic use

of heavier or near maximal loads enables one to use more reps

with a heavier load and this helps to enhance hypertrophy, so it

can be very ueseful to augment any of the above approaches

with episodes of heavier lifting for 1-3 reps. Then, don't

forget the valuable role played by variety in most programs,

so it is profitable to use a fairly wide repertoire of stimulating

and challenging exercises for the average client. Mel Siff]

Thanks in advance.

Mike Sasin

Westminster, CO

---------

son wrote:

> Mike, I would agree that compared to the typical routines

> and training ideas found in most popular

> bodybuilding magazines, Pavel's concepts are

> definitely a step in the right direction and I'm sure

> most people, especially those previously following

> magazine routines, will get something out of them.

>

> The posterior pelvic tilting was the one thing that

> I was really surprised to see him advocating

> and I most disagreed with. It's possible I

> misunderstood what he was saying, though when he

> says to strongly contract the glutes and tuck the tail

> under, I don't know what else he could have been

> saying.

>

> I also recall him saying overhead pressing was best

> done in such a narrow stance that the heels

> would be touching, which I don't agree with either.

>

> As far as reps go, it really depends on one's goals

> and many other variables and saying there is no

> need to do more than five reps in any training is a

> pretty bold statement. When training for max

> strength, the Westside guys certainly use more than

> five reps on all their assistance and accessory

> exercises and it doesn't seem to be hurting their

> strength any. When it comes to training athletes,

> I don't know anyone who would limit all training to

> under five reps either.

>

> As Zatsiorsky discusses in Science and Practice and

> Dr. Siff covers in Supertraining, there is need

> to use more than just the maximal effort method,

> which Pavel seems to solely advocate doing. I will

> say that he was speaking primarily to the general

> population so I can't be sure exacctly what his

> ideas on training athletes would be.

>

> Like many of the well known gurus out there, I'd say

> that Pavel does have some good ideas and you can

> certainly take something away from what he says, but

> he also isn't right about everything. He certainly

> doesn't have all the answers or any magic routines,

> he makes a lot of bold statements based on his

> opinions

> without any references that I didn't agree with, and

> he uses a lot of effective marketing tactics to sell

>

> his ideas.

>

> son

> EndZone Athletics

> Seattle, WA

---------

From: Sasin

> , I'm glad you brought all that up. While I would

> describe myself as a Pavel " fan, " I am not a

> " blind

> follower. " I am not a personal trainer or sports

> scientist, just a guy who has trained with weights

> for

> over half of my life and never seemed to get

> satisfactory results. Pavel's books kept coming up

> on

> my Amazon " recommendations " after I bought one

> book on

> Olympic lifting. I initially resisted buying the

> book

> in part because of the marketing hype that went

> with.

> Finally, I said what the heck and bought it. For

> me,

> the concepts were " new " because my prior

> experience

> with training methods was through the popular

> media

> which methods, as you may know, are all based on

> bodybuilding. My goals at the time and currently

> are

> not to build freaky big muscles but functional

> strength.

>

> I think the 40-50% increase in strength through

> hyperirradiation is overblown. It helps, but not

> to

> that extent. If I am trying to finish a tough

> squat

> rep I find that gripping the bar as tightly as I

> can

> helps complete the rep.

>

> I figure his books are enough so I never went to

> his

> seminars or purchased videos. I don't recall

> discussion of the " tail tuck " but I would never do

> that.

>

> I only like one ab exercise that Pavel recommends

> and

> that is the ab wheel. I actually use a barbell for

> these so I can add a little bit of weight. I don't

> enjoy working abs so anything else is superfluous.

>

> I don't do power breathing.

>

> As far as his position on number of reps, I have been

> interested in this topic. My personal spin about

> Pavel's message is this: There is no question that

> " Power to the People " was written for a mass audience

> and not for athletes. Your average trainee probably

> wants to gain some strength but not get " too big, " and

> not spend hours in the gym.

>

> However, by following a standard " bodybuilding "

> program of 5 exercises per body part, with 5 sets per

> exercise, 8-12 reps per set, you:

>

> 1. will get big due to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy;

> 2. not get very strong; and

> 3. spend lots of time in the gym.

>

> From my own experience, this is true. When I first

> began training almost 20 years ago I used Arnold's

> " program, " which had overtraining written all over it. I

> spent 1.5 hours in the gym each day, my muscles bloated, but the

> strength gains stopped. Now my workouts are under an hour and I

> have been making decent strength gains.

--- -----

son wrote:

>

> > Mike, I recently went to a couple of seminars by Pavel

> > and, while I thought some of his ideas were good or

> > interesting,

> > some of his claims I didn't agree with, and I

> > thought a lot of his show was more marketing than

> > anything else.

> > Some of his more memorable statements or beliefs

> > that I can recall were:

> >

> > -Anything over 5 reps is bodybuilding and not needed

> > in training (the audience was largely slightly

> > overweight or not in very good shape men and women)

> >

> > -You can increase your strength 40-50% by

> > deliberately tensing mucles other than the ones you

> > are working directly, i.e. tightening the thighs when

> > doing grip work or by " gripping " the floor tightly

> > when doing push-ups

> >

> > -It doesn't really matter if you do all your sets at

> > once in one training session or if you break them up

> > and do them over the course of a day

> >

> > -He seemed to be saying one should use a posterior

> > pelvic tilt in almost all exercises including overhead

> > pressing and squatting when he kept advocating to

> > deliberately " tuck your tail under " ....

Mel Siff:

<Immediate comment - NEVER do any serious lifting or

weight training like that! This is exactly the opposite

of what is safe and desirable........ >

January 25, 2003

Sounds more like a recipe for power-endurance or muscle-endurance, as

outlined in Bompa's periodization for sports book.

Stuart

Silver Spring, MD

----------

wrote:

>In " Russian Kettlebell Challenge " , pp 30 - 31, Pavel mentions

>training with light weights, 26 - 32% 1RM, for 80 - 100+ reps a week,

>with a heavy session once a month or so. Apparently this trains the

>central pattern generators, and so makes the movement more efficient.

>It sounds like a good way to avoid overtraining.

>

>I have never heard of any weightlifters or sports teams training like

>this.

>

>Mel, do you have any comment on this technique?

>

>[it also looks like a good way not to become very strong and powerful.

>As I also mentioned before and provided some Russian research on,

>training with seriously submaximal weights like that involve

>different movement patterns from those used in circamaximal and

>maximal lifts, and do not improve movement efficiency with all

>loads. What, by the way, is a " central pattern generator " ? Does

>he provide any references for this concept? Mel Siff]

-------

Wesley Kersey wrote:

>> Dr. Siff, I am glad Mike brought this up, as Tsatsouline has cited your work

and

>> some Russian Scientist in his book " Power to the People " I will get it

>> out and refresh my memory as to the exact areas, of course you may

>> already know. Have you read " Power to the People " or " The Russian

>> Kettlebell Challenge " and if so would you give your thoughts on the

>> theory of the techniques employed?

Mel Siff wrote:

>Yes, I have read those books and I have met with Pavel. You will

>have to give me the specific techniques in which you are interested, since

>a fair analysis of any book can take many days to write. >

* Please sign all letters with genuine full name and city if you wish them

to be published

January 22, 2004

Mike,

I recently went to a couple of seminars by Pavel and, while I thought some of

his ideas were good or interesting,

some of his claims I didn't agree with, and I thought a lot of his show was more

marketing than anything else.

Some of his more memorable statements or beliefs that I can recall were:

-Anything over 5 reps is bodybuilding and not needed in training (the audience

was largely slightly

overweight or not in very good shape men and women)

-You can increase your strength 40-50% by deliberately tensing mucles other than

the ones you are

working directly, i.e. tightening the thighs when doing grip work or by

" gripping " the floor tightly

when doing push-ups

-It doesn't really matter if you do all your sets at once in one training

session or if you break them up and

do them over the course of a day

-He seemed to be saying one should use a posterior pelvic tilt in almost all

exercises including overhead

pressing and squatting when he kept advocating to deliberately " tuck your tail

under "

[immediate comment - NEVER do any serious lifting or weight training like that!

This is exactly the

opposite of what is safe and desirable. Posterior tilting of the pelvis should

be confined mainly to

crunches. Mel Siff]

-The best exercise you can do for your abs is the Janda sit-up while using his

" power breathing " technique

which was basically short and choppy repetitive forceful exhalations with the

tongue at the top of the mouth

where the result would be a hissing sound being made

[The Janda sit-up has been carefully researched and shown to offer far less

abdominal exercise than hitherto

has been claimed. Mel Siff]

-You can train the major lifts many times a week, he cited the Russian

powerlifting team which he says bench

presses 8 times per week

-He had a lot of different breathing techniques such as his " power breathing "

and " paradoxical breathing " which

involved a forceful inhalation during the concentric phase of the exercise,

which he claimed could increase

strength dramatically though he never really mentioned using the Valsalva

maneuver

-In a two hour session on ab training, about 95% of the exercises he went over

were variations of crunches

with varied breathing techniques

I'd be curious to hear what other people think about the above statements?

Overall I thought Pavel was an interesting character and I agreed with some of

the things he said and he seemed like

a nice guy, but I didn't think he had any revolutionary training concepts. He

was against the ab sucking in TvA

nonsense, which was good and he did dispell some other common myths as well. He

was very animated and good at

marketing and selling his ideas to the audience and definitely used the

" mysterious Russian " act and accent to his

advantage. As a whole, I thought it was probably more a lesson in effective

marketing than effective training.

son

EndZone Athletics

Seattle, WA

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike on

I have a few questions regarding the training ideas of Pavel Tsatsouline. I

frequent his website

quite often, and I must admit some of his training methods seem unorthodox,

but I am interested

in everyone's ideas and experiences with some of his training methods.

First off, has anyone tried the " synaptic facilitation " method? Essentially,

you perform a movement

(for example, squats) with approximately 60-80% of your maximum several times

a day. The

thought process is that your body better learns the movement, and therefore

you become stronger at

it (obviously this is quite dumbed down, if you would like to read the

article, you can find it at

www.dragondoor.com, look in the articles section under " Grease the Groove " ).

So basically if I work at a gym, anytime I walk past the squat rack I would

load up some weight, bang

out a couple of reps, and in the end I would be stronger.

Another idea is that of more " proprioceptive " training, where one starts off

with very light weights,

and performs them with the eyes closed, slowly working to increase the weight.

Again, any thoughts, ideas, experiences or training advice on these or other

training methods would

be appreciated.

[All of this hypothesising omits to mention a few basic facts, namely that

technique changes subtly with

each different load you use, and far-from-maximal training using the same

acceleration will not produce

adequate adaptation to cope with much heavier loads. Did he cite any

references to support this idea?

It almost sounds as if this idea is a misapplication of the power or speed

training method used by

Louie - the problem, of course, is that this type of training is not

the only type used by Louie

and the Westsiders. Mel Siff]

Mike on, MS, CSCS

* Please sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

wish them to be published!

January 22, 2004

Mike,

I would agree that compared to the typical routines and training ideas found in

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