Guest guest Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 Do you honestly expect them to use those words? If you google " death panel " you get nearly 700 hits. Lots of people are writing about what is going on. Thank God for the Internet and social media. Tuesday brings a tsunami. Frances, watch the Dr. Janda video. He explains the death panels. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share> Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim Hmmmm. I don't see death panel in here at all? CE Grim MD On Oct 31, 2010, at 7:37 PM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote: How do you get a death panel out of this? show us where it comes from. SEC. 804. FEDERAL COORDINATING COUNCIL FOR COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH. (a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is hereby established a Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (in this section referred to as the ``Council''). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Every system has and always will have to ration care. CE Grim MDMan, Frances, you are hot on the research tonight. I'm impressed! That is the first death panel. The panel that will implement rationing is in the Obamacare bill. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PAHere is the report from so called death panel. It is 77 pages long. Haven't read much of it yet. http://www.hhs.gov/recovery/programs/cer/cerannualrpt.pdf--- In hyperaldosteronism , "Valarie " wrote:>> Here is the same story from another physician.> <http://biggovernment.com/author/egeorge/>> http://biggovernment.com/author/egeorge/> > > > > Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the "death panels" I've been talking> about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as> we all want to think differently, it's all there.> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Val, The point of having health care available to all is to utilize it for preventative care. Personally I think requiring high-deductible insurance for everybody would be worthless, for the most part. Only the rich would be able to afford preventative care. Again. Still. I was in Toronto in September and virtually every Canadian I talked to asked why Americans are against a national health care system and wanted to know just what did we get for our tax dollars if we don't get health care? All I could think to say was 2 wars. I find it absolutely mind-bending that so many Americans think that it's just fine to give 50+ billion per year in foreign aid to countries that hate us and $750+ billion to destroy and then rebuild Iraq, yet helping their own citizens by giving them health care is totally unacceptable. I read a very interesting book not long ago, Fire and Ice: The US, Canada and the Myth of Converging Values by . It addresses the differences in American and Canadian sentiment and ideologies. The majority of Canadians believe their government doesn't do enough for their citizens and should do more. Canadians also believe that, while there will always be some malingerers, the vast majority of people would not choose to live their lives in poverty and they should therefore help their fellow citizens who have less than themselves. I'm sure I don't have to say how Americans feel about this. a Subject: Death panelsTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 4:09 PMDr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the "death panels" I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Val, The point of having health care available to all is to utilize it for preventative care. Personally I think requiring high-deductible insurance for everybody would be worthless, for the most part. Only the rich would be able to afford preventative care. Again. Still. I was in Toronto in September and virtually every Canadian I talked to asked why Americans are against a national health care system and wanted to know just what did we get for our tax dollars if we don't get health care? All I could think to say was 2 wars. I find it absolutely mind-bending that so many Americans think that it's just fine to give 50+ billion per year in foreign aid to countries that hate us and $750+ billion to destroy and then rebuild Iraq, yet helping their own citizens by giving them health care is totally unacceptable. I read a very interesting book not long ago, Fire and Ice: The US, Canada and the Myth of Converging Values by . It addresses the differences in American and Canadian sentiment and ideologies. The majority of Canadians believe their government doesn't do enough for their citizens and should do more. Canadians also believe that, while there will always be some malingerers, the vast majority of people would not choose to live their lives in poverty and they should therefore help their fellow citizens who have less than themselves. I'm sure I don't have to say how Americans feel about this. a Subject: Death panelsTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 4:09 PMDr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the "death panels" I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 He must be plastic man he stretches the truth so much.All health care systems have or should have effectiveness panels or we will go broke even faster.To let the Dr dictate what is to be done without supervision and regulation is like letting Republicans deregulate everything.You see where that has gotten us.CE Grim MDDo you honestly expect them to use those words? If you google "death panel" you get nearly 700 hits. Lots of people are writing about what is going on. Thank God for the Internet and social media. Tuesday brings a tsunami. Frances, watch the Dr. Janda video. He explains the death panels. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share> Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimHmmmm. I don't see death panel in here at all? CE Grim MDOn Oct 31, 2010, at 7:37 PM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:How do you get a death panel out of this? show us where it comes from.SEC. 804. FEDERAL COORDINATING COUNCIL FOR COMPARATIVEEFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH. (a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is herebyestablished a Federal Coordinating Council for ComparativeEffectiveness Research (in this section referred to as the ``Council''). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 While I would to talk about this more others in group may not. Last time we lost a few members. > > > Subject: Death panels > To: hyperaldosteronism > Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 4:09 PM > > Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the " death panels " I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share > > Val > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 While I would to talk about this more others in group may not. Last time we lost a few members. > > > Subject: Death panels > To: hyperaldosteronism > Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 4:09 PM > > Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the " death panels " I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share > > Val > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 You're absolutely right and I won't say anything else on the subject. a > > Subject: Re: Death panels > To: hyperaldosteronism > Date: Monday, November 1, 2010, 10:21 AM > While I would to talk about this more > others in group may not. Last time we lost a few > members. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 You're absolutely right and I won't say anything else on the subject. a > > Subject: Re: Death panels > To: hyperaldosteronism > Date: Monday, November 1, 2010, 10:21 AM > While I would to talk about this more > others in group may not. Last time we lost a few > members. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 It’s only fear of change that holds America back from providing health care. The founding fathers had it down… We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[2] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Providing for the welfare of Americans is essential … the USA is the only westernized nation on the planet that doesn’t have some sort of health care plan. In the USA I couldn’t get medical treatment, because I couldn’t afford it. I had cancer at 24 and my WORK insurance rose from a premium of $40 a month to $1200 a month. My employer said either I or the insurance policy went, and the policy went … I needed to work. No company will insure me now, and somehow they would tie everything into treatment for cancer (radiation/chemo, etc.) When I moved to New Zealand I didn’t know what public health care was? Now I do. The doctors are amazing here, they spend time with you – and really care. My diagnosis for Conn’s took the same amount of time, if not less, than some of yours did. Our system isn’t perfect, but at least I didn’t have to file bankruptcy to get a diagnosis. I am forever grateful for the public healthcare here. A friend is currently losing her husband to aggressive cancer, but when it’s over, they may also lose the house and all their belongings. Health care isn’t about providing for people who can get their own insurance (some here carry private insurance) but instead to prevent care being denied because of the cost. I say keep going Americans – you can promote the general Welfare … Cheers Sue From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim Sent: Monday, 1 November 2010 1:22 p.m. To: hyperaldosteronism Cc: Clarence Grim Subject: Re: Death panels Thanks a. Seems to be a lot of Mispeak from Dr. Janda. CE Grim MD Paging Dr. Janda. He has some big holes in his claims and a lot of misinformation. http://www.impulsenine.com/homepage/pages/2009/09/paging-dr-janda.html Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the " death panels " I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 It’s only fear of change that holds America back from providing health care. The founding fathers had it down… We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[2] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Providing for the welfare of Americans is essential … the USA is the only westernized nation on the planet that doesn’t have some sort of health care plan. In the USA I couldn’t get medical treatment, because I couldn’t afford it. I had cancer at 24 and my WORK insurance rose from a premium of $40 a month to $1200 a month. My employer said either I or the insurance policy went, and the policy went … I needed to work. No company will insure me now, and somehow they would tie everything into treatment for cancer (radiation/chemo, etc.) When I moved to New Zealand I didn’t know what public health care was? Now I do. The doctors are amazing here, they spend time with you – and really care. My diagnosis for Conn’s took the same amount of time, if not less, than some of yours did. Our system isn’t perfect, but at least I didn’t have to file bankruptcy to get a diagnosis. I am forever grateful for the public healthcare here. A friend is currently losing her husband to aggressive cancer, but when it’s over, they may also lose the house and all their belongings. Health care isn’t about providing for people who can get their own insurance (some here carry private insurance) but instead to prevent care being denied because of the cost. I say keep going Americans – you can promote the general Welfare … Cheers Sue From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim Sent: Monday, 1 November 2010 1:22 p.m. To: hyperaldosteronism Cc: Clarence Grim Subject: Re: Death panels Thanks a. Seems to be a lot of Mispeak from Dr. Janda. CE Grim MD Paging Dr. Janda. He has some big holes in his claims and a lot of misinformation. http://www.impulsenine.com/homepage/pages/2009/09/paging-dr-janda.html Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the " death panels " I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 HR-1http://readthestimulus.org/hr1_final.pdf Title VIII (p. 61) $1,500,000,000 ($1.5 billion) to build a medical dossier on everyone.I think that is called an electronic medical record. Will say lives and $. Title VIII (p 63) $1,100,000,000 ($1.1 billion) to set up the Comparative Effectiveness Research board. That board will advise the Obamacare board on rationing. There are better ways to reduce prices and increase quality. Look at the Lasik market.And the long term data that Lasik is safe and useful is? The numbers = what Dr. Janda put in the video. Actually, said they had to pass the bill so they could find out what's in it. Pretty pathetic that all those people voted for it without knowing what was in it. Yeah, shame on them. That ENT's fees should be between a patient and the doctor, and prices should be transparent. Government should have nothing to do with it. About that deficit … Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimSome physicians who write stuff haven't read the bill either. She is an ENT and prob threatened because payments to specialists may go down.Guess they did not take 's advice to read it so they would know what was in it. Shame on them. I have downloaded all 407 pages and so can anyone. Bill sent the link. CE Here is the same story from another physician.http://biggovernment.com/author/egeorge/From: Valarie Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the "death panels" I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 I think a much better name is Life panels. But the would never see it that way even though she can see Russia.CE Grim MDDr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the "death panels" I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 As many non-Americans say: Death to American but let me migrate there first.CE Grim MDWhile I would to talk about this more others in group may not. Last time we lost a few members. > > > Subject: Death panels> To: hyperaldosteronism > Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 4:09 PM> > Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the "death panels" I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there.> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share> > Val> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Hmmmm. And who got us into these wars?Seems we did not learn from Korea or Vietnam.War is not healthy for children and other living things. CE Grim MDVal, The point of having health care available to all is to utilize it for preventative care. Personally I think requiring high-deductible insurance for everybody would be worthless, for the most part. Only the rich would be able to afford preventative care. Again. Still. I was in Toronto in September and virtually every Canadian I talked to asked why Americans are against a national health care system and wanted to know just what did we get for our tax dollars if we don't get health care? All I could think to say was 2 wars. I find it absolutely mind-bending that so many Americans think that it's just fine to give 50+ billion per year in foreign aid to countries that hate us and $750+ billion to destroy and then rebuild Iraq, yet helping their own citizens by giving them health care is totally unacceptable. I read a very interesting book not long ago, Fire and Ice: The US, Canada and the Myth of Converging Values by . It addresses the differences in American and Canadian sentiment and ideologies. The majority of Canadians believe their government doesn't do enough for their citizens and should do more. Canadians also believe that, while there will always be some malingerers, the vast majority of people would not choose to live their lives in poverty and they should therefore help their fellow citizens who have less than themselves. I'm sure I don't have to say how Americans feel about this. a Subject: Death panelsTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 4:09 PMDr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the "death panels" I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Long live the life panels.CE Grim MDYou're absolutely right and I won't say anything else on the subject.a> > Subject: Re: Death panels> To: hyperaldosteronism > Date: Monday, November 1, 2010, 10:21 AM> While I would to talk about this more> others in group may not. Last time we lost a few> members. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Keep us Hopping.CE Grim MDIt’s only fear of change that holds America back from providing health care. The founding fathers had it down… We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[2] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Providing for the welfare of Americans is essential … the USA is the only westernized nation on the planet that doesn’t have some sort of health care plan. In the USA I couldn’t get medical treatment, because I couldn’t afford it. I had cancer at 24 and my WORK insurance rose from a premium of $40 a month to $1200 a month. My employer said either I or the insurance policy went, and the policy went … I needed to work. No company will insure me now, and somehow they would tie everything into treatment for cancer (radiation/chemo, etc.) When I moved to New Zealand I didn’t know what public health care was? Now I do. The doctors are amazing here, they spend time with you – and really care. My diagnosis for Conn’s took the same amount of time, if not less, than some of yours did. Our system isn’t perfect, but at least I didn’t have to file bankruptcy to get a diagnosis. I am forever grateful for the public healthcare here. A friend is currently losing her husband to aggressive cancer, but when it’s over, they may also lose the house and all their belongings. Health care isn’t about providing for people who can get their own insurance (some here carry private insurance) but instead to prevent care being denied because of the cost. I say keep going Americans – you can promote the general Welfare … Cheers Sue From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimSent: Monday, 1 November 2010 1:22 p.m.To: hyperaldosteronism Cc: Clarence GrimSubject: Re: Death panels Thanks a. Seems to be a lot of Mispeak from Dr. Janda. CE Grim MD Paging Dr. Janda. He has some big holes in his claims and a lot of misinformation. http://www.impulsenine.com/homepage/pages/2009/09/paging-dr-janda.html --- Subject: Re: Death panelsTo: hyperaldosteronism Cc: "Clarence Grim" Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 7:44 PMSorry could not get any sound from this site. There are no death panels. It is a Republican Hoax. Except those that exist with private insurance. I just had a patient whose 80 year old wife died after heart surgery and the bill was $400,000. Now that is a death panel if I ever heard of one. As he said this will kill me. CE Grim MD Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the "death panels" I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 This is my last post (unless someone responds) because I know it makes some uncomfortable. a, no one is talking about people not having health care. I am talking about a high deductible policy and a spending plan. Most people are covered by employer plans, but every plan sold could have a spending component. that people manage for themselves. That spending plan can be used for preventative services. Alternatively, people can pay their whole amount (spending + insurance cost + more) to an HMO and take what that HMO is willing to give. It is a matter of choice, and that choice should be available. If people want the government option, great! Let them pay the full cost. Example: Single guy, 25 years old, insurance costs $100/month. Spending plan contributions = $200/month. In four years, he has enough to pay his deductible. By the time he retired, he would likely have enough accumulated to pay his premiums and deductibles for life. I'm not opposed to government helping those who cannot help themselves, but I am opposed to footing the bill for those who choose a new car over health insurance. There are ways incentives can be built in without government mandates. And there are many ways to help the needy - at less cost than we're doing right now. BTW, if that young guy wants a plan that takes care of everything, he will not get it for $300 a month. Did you note in my previous message that Medicare, the socialized system for old people, costs $16,000 - $20,000 per person per year? There are so many possibilities that can be done with that information and that amount of money. A liberal's solution to high Medicare costs is to ration care, build personal information databases, create new bureaucracies (160 in Obamacare), to make more rules, and to intrude to an ever-increasing extent into private lives. A conservative's solution is to take some of that existing spending, give everyone high deductible insurance and get them started on a spending account. Already Medicare people spend $3,500 - $7,500/year, out-of-pocket. Think how quickly a spending account could build up, especially if it was started at age 25. Additionally, old people wouldn't have to present that blasted card bearing one's Social Security number that automatically brands the person " old " and " on the dole. " Eventually, Medicare wouldn't be necessary. If people were doing their own shopping, prices would fall dramatically and quality would rise. That is Economics 101. The Lasik market is a prime example. My situation with Lyme is another absolutely perfect example. By shopping carefully, I am doing my IV treatment for 1/3 of what my co-insurance cost (20%) would have been. Every time a conservative proposes a free-market solution, people jump on us for not caring about the poor. No one in America goes without health care. No one. America is the most generous nation in the world. http://www.takebackmedicine.com/health-care-reform-myths/2009/8/25/myth-17-health-care-reform-will-establish-a-right-to-health.html War? Just wait until the terrorists bomb Canada. Who do you think will be there to mop up the mess? Rightly or wrongly, America tries to preserve freedom in this world. I actually think we should start requiring some of the socialist countries pay for their own defense, and certainly, pay for their own medical innovation and drug research. I'm tired of paying through the teeth and being called " uncaring. " Did you ask those Canadian friends why their prime minister came to the U.S. for his heart surgery. My Lyme doc in CA has many Canadian patients. They come to him because they cannot get care in Canada. Val The uncaring conservative who wants Americans to be free of unnecessary government intrusion. From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of a Hall Val, The point of having health care available to all is to utilize it for preventative care. Personally I think requiring high-deductible insurance for everybody would be worthless, for the most part. Only the rich would be able to afford preventative care. Again. Still. I was in Toronto in September and virtually every Canadian I talked to asked why Americans are against a national health care system and wanted to know just what did we get for our tax dollars if we don't get health care? All I could think to say was 2 wars. I find it absolutely mind-bending that so many Americans think that it's just fine to give 50+ billion per year in foreign aid to countries that hate us and $750+ billion to destroy and then rebuild Iraq, yet helping their own citizens by giving them health care is totally unacceptable. I read a very interesting book not long ago, Fire and Ice: The US, Canada and the Myth of Converging Values by . It addresses the differences in American and Canadian sentiment and ideologies. The majority of Canadians believe their government doesn't do enough for their citizens and should do more. Canadians also believe that, while there will always be some malingerers, the vast majority of people would not choose to live their lives in poverty and they should therefore help their fellow citizens who have less than themselves. I'm sure I don't have to say how Americans feel about this. a a, I wasn't making any judgments on whether Dr. Janda is correct or not. I was just pointing out that he nailed the death panels issue in the new federal legislation. They are there. If people bought a high-deductible health insurance policy along with payments into a spending account when they were 25, there would come a time when the accumulated deposits would pay the premium for the rest of the person's life. Eventually, there would be no need for Medicare. As it is, Medicare people spend $3,500 - $7,500/year. That, plus the government spends $12,000 per recipient per year. Just think what could be done with $16,000 - $20,000 a year! In Colorado, a 25 yo man can buy $10,000 deductible for about $100 a month. A man & woman, 40 yo with two children can buy the same plan for $218/month. A 63 yo woman can buy the same plan for $225. Here is an article I published http://hearus-now.org/?p=1166%3F They are waiting for my next one. It will deal with the benefits of having a spending plan accumulate over the years. Then, the next one will deal with how our society groups people by their circumstances. When a senior presents a Medicare card, the immediate reaction is " old. " When a single mother with a disabled child presents her Medicaid card, the immediate reaction is " welfare. " I'm still trying to figure out why we categorize people like that. I guess it's control. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of a Hall Dr. Janda is a Republican who has long been opposed to any type of health care funded by the government, including Medicare and Medicaid. His solution to the health care crisis is to require all citizens to have a health savings plan and buy their own insurance. He's never said where the poor and elderly should get the money for this, though. Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the " death panels " I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 This is my last post (unless someone responds) because I know it makes some uncomfortable. a, no one is talking about people not having health care. I am talking about a high deductible policy and a spending plan. Most people are covered by employer plans, but every plan sold could have a spending component. that people manage for themselves. That spending plan can be used for preventative services. Alternatively, people can pay their whole amount (spending + insurance cost + more) to an HMO and take what that HMO is willing to give. It is a matter of choice, and that choice should be available. If people want the government option, great! Let them pay the full cost. Example:Single guy, 25 years old, insurance costs $100/month. Spending plan contributions = $200/month. In four years, he has enough to pay his deductible. By the time he retired, he would likely have enough accumulated to pay his premiums and deductibles for life. I'm not opposed to government helping those who cannot help themselves, but I am opposed to footing the bill for those who choose a new car over health insurance. There are ways incentives can be built in without government mandates. And there are many ways to help the needy - at less cost than we're doing right now. BTW, if that young guy wants a plan that takes care of everything, he will not get it for $300 a month. Did you note in my previous message that Medicare, the socialized system for old people, costs $16,000 - $20,000 per person per year? There are so many possibilities that can be done with that information and that amount of money. A liberal's solution to high Medicare costs is to ration care, build personal information databases, create new bureaucracies (160 in Obamacare), to make more rules, and to intrude to an ever-increasing extent into private lives. A conservative's solution is to take some of that existing spending, give everyone high deductible insurance and get them started on a spending account. Already Medicare people spend $3,500 - $7,500/year, out-of-pocket. Think how quickly a spending account could build up, especially if it was started at age 25. Additionally, old people wouldn't have to present that blasted card bearing one's Social Security number that automatically brands the person "old" and "on the dole." Eventually, Medicare wouldn't be necessary. If people were doing their own shopping, prices would fall dramatically and quality would rise. How do you make folks shop. Most I take care of have no internet access. \That is Economics 101. The Lasik market is a prime example. My situation with Lyme is another absolutely perfect example. By shopping carefully, I am doing my IV treatment for 1/3 of what my co-insurance cost (20%) would have been. Every time a conservative proposes a free-market solution, people jump on us for not caring about the poor. No one in America goes without health care. No one. America is the most generous nation in the world. http://www.takebackmedicine.com/health-care-reform-myths/2009/8/25/myth-17-health-care-reform-will-establish-a-right-to-health.htmlHmmmm. I guess you don't know any of the folks who have been laid off who are not yet 60what ever and have no insurance despite working man for 20 or more years. War? Just wait until the terrorists bomb Canada. Who do you think will be there to mop up the mess? Rightly or wrongly, America tries to preserve freedom in this world. I actually think we should start requiring some of the socialist countries pay for their own defense, and certainly, pay for their own medical innovation and drug research. I'm tired of paying through the teeth and being called "uncaring." Did you ask those Canadian friends why their prime minister came to the U.S. for his heart surgery. My Lyme doc in CA has many Canadian patients. They come to him because they cannot get care in Canada. ValThe uncaring conservative who wants Americans to be free of unnecessary government intrusion. From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of a Hall Val, The point of having health care available to all is to utilize it for preventative care. Personally I think requiring high-deductible insurance for everybody would be worthless, for the most part. Only the rich would be able to afford preventative care. Again. Still. I was in Toronto in September and virtually every Canadian I talked to asked why Americans are against a national health care system and wanted to know just what did we get for our tax dollars if we don't get health care? All I could think to say was 2 wars. I find it absolutely mind-bending that so many Americans think that it's just fine to give 50+ billion per year in foreign aid to countries that hate us and $750+ billion to destroy and then rebuild Iraq, yet helping their own citizens by giving them health care is totally unacceptable. I read a very interesting book not long ago, Fire and Ice: The US, Canada and the Myth of Converging Values by . It addresses the differences in American and Canadian sentiment and ideologies. The majority of Canadians believe their government doesn't do enough for their citizens and should do more. Canadians also believe that, while there will always be some malingerers, the vast majority of people would not choose to live their lives in poverty and they should therefore help their fellow citizens who have less than themselves. I'm sure I don't have to say how Americans feel about this. a a, I wasn't making any judgments on whether Dr. Janda is correct or not. I was just pointing out that he nailed the death panels issue in the new federal legislation. They are there. If people bought a high-deductible health insurance policy along with payments into a spending account when they were 25, there would come a time when the accumulated deposits would pay the premium for the rest of the person's life. Eventually, there would be no need for Medicare. As it is, Medicare people spend $3,500 - $7,500/year. That, plus the government spends $12,000 per recipient per year. Just think what could be done with $16,000 - $20,000 a year! In Colorado, a 25 yo man can buy $10,000 deductible for about $100 a month. A man & woman, 40 yo with two children can buy the same plan for $218/month. A 63 yo woman can buy the same plan for $225. Here is an article I publishedhttp://hearus-now.org/?p=1166%3F They are waiting for my next one. It will deal with the benefits of having a spending plan accumulate over the years. Then, the next one will deal with how our society groups people by their circumstances. When a senior presents a Medicare card, the immediate reaction is "old." When a single mother with a disabled child presents her Medicaid card, the immediate reaction is "welfare." I'm still trying to figure out why we categorize people like that. I guess it's control. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of a Hall Dr. Janda is a Republican who has long been opposed to any type of health care funded by the government, including Medicare and Medicaid. His solution to the health care crisis is to require all citizens to have a health savings plan and buy their own insurance. He's never said where the poor and elderly should get the money for this, though. Dr. Grim, here is a good explanation of the "death panels" I've been talking about. It is all in the stimulus bill and the Obamacare bill. As much as we all want to think differently, it's all there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ & feature=share Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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