Re: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

[Guest guest]

I was mostly saying this in jest I think. No good data sorry. Show me one Republican who has voiced the complaint that too many people are living to be old. I know of one Democrat congressman, Grayson from Florida, who accuses Republicans of wanting people to die, but he provides no basis for his erratic accusation. Anyone with half a brain understands that SS is under severe pressure because people are living longer than anticipated when the law was written. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimBut the Republicans complain too many people are living to be old and that is messing up SS.

[Guest guest]

Lots of ticks here. Not much Lyme that I have seen. Many have had the test but all neg. It appears but lots of reported cases. My guess is that it is markedly undereported. No one had done a random survey up here that I know of.CETicks have been found to be carried by birds. Ya’ know, Dr. Grim, Wisconsin is heavily infested? Does anyone find it interesting that two of us on this list have now been diagnosed with Lyme? I belong to a tiny Yahoo group of women. Over the years, we’ve become friends as the result of other groups, namely thyroid and hormones, and as a result of our common symptoms. There are only seven of us. So far, three of us have been firmly diagnosed with Lyme. I think two others are likely. CDC gets 20,000 reports a year but estimates that the actual incidence is 10 – 12 times that. 225,000 cases a year compares how with other ailments? How does that compare with HIV, Swine flu and PA? Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimOh and we need to be able to thin the goose population up here. CEOr someone is carrying the Lyme disease in place of the deer. Regards

[Guest guest]

There are articles about that, and a woman in “Under Our Skin” transmitted it to her baby via the placenta. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimSomeone mentioned a mother to fetus transmission of Lyme. CE Then it seems reasonable that humans can "carry" it if the number of insects is large.We tend to think we're not bit that much - I can recall the last tick bite ~ 20 yrs ago.There has to be a larger force at work.Has it been proved tick to human to tick to human is not feasible?

[Guest guest]

I can assure you that the % etc has been dictated by industry mostly. As the labeling has moved from voluntary to mandatory there have been heavy industry pressures to slow the process down. They are a very powerful lobby including the salt institute. If you note many of the beverage industries also make many salted products. I do not think this is by chance. Dr. McGregor in Eng has estimated that decreasing salt intake in food will have a big impact on the soft drink and water industry. Less salt not so thirsty. Don't sell so many Cokes.I’m all for public education and full disclosure. Every restaurant menu should have nutrient information. Because government requires disclosure, however, does not mean government should be mandating what goes into a product. Parts of current nutrient lists are a bit of a joke because they list % of daily calories (usually based on 2,000 cal diet). What does that mean for people on a 1,200 calorie diet? That is a government mandate at its finest. Without the actual mg listings, the labels would mean nothing. Government ought to be requiring full disclosure of what goes into political committees, too, but that’s a topic for another day. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimIn the bottom line we all pay for the problems salt causes. But if we set up a urine salt test when you come in the hospital for stroke, heart attack, MI, CHF or renal failure or rusty arteries in neck heart kidneys or penis and it was too high you would have to pay a bigger part of the bill. Would lead to a black market, make that a yellow market, is low sodium urine to give in place of yous. Seems reasonable to decrease our costs if possible. Finland and Japan did it and strokes have come down.

[Guest guest]

If you or yours ever get a tick bite, the actual tick should be

tested. Testing ticks is easier

than testing people.

That applies no matter where you live (unless at one of the

poles).

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Lots of ticks here. Not much Lyme that I have seen.

Many have had the test but all neg. It appears but lots of reported

cases. My guess is that it is markedly undereported.

No one had done a random survey up here that I know of.

CE

[Guest guest]

I know there are powerful lobbies for every law that gets

passed. Every health insurance

mandate in my state is supported by a lobby. I pay for pregnancy insurance. Of course, the salt institute has a good

lobby. Perhaps it is better to insist

on disclosure than for specific governmental intrusion?

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

I can assure you that the % etc has been dictated by

industry mostly. As the labeling has moved from voluntary to mandatory

there have been heavy industry pressures to slow the process down. They

are a very powerful lobby including the salt institute. If you note many

of the beverage industries also make many salted products. I do not think

this is by chance. Dr. McGregor in Eng has estimated that decreasing salt

intake in food will have a big impact on the soft drink and water industry.

Less salt not so thirsty. Don't sell so many Cokes.

[Guest guest]

They do not recommend that up here as too many ticks and when taken off early little change of getting Lyme's they say.I have not seen a good study that testing ticks predicts who will get sick. Do you?CEIf you or yours ever get a tick bite, the actual tick should be tested. Testing ticks is easier than testing people. That applies no matter where you live (unless at one of the poles). Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimLots of ticks here. Not much Lyme that I have seen. Many have had the test but all neg. It appears but lots of reported cases. My guess is that it is markedly undereported. No one had done a random survey up here that I know of. CE

[Guest guest]

We have been disclosing at least on packages for 15 years and salt intake has not gone down.Disclosure without educating the public is not worth while I don't think. And there are few choices if you eat out which lots of folks do at McDs etc. CEI know there are powerful lobbies for every law that gets passed. Every health insurance mandate in my state is supported by a lobby. I pay for pregnancy insurance. Of course, the salt institute has a good lobby. Perhaps it is better to insist on disclosure than for specific governmental intrusion? Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimI can assure you that the % etc has been dictated by industry mostly. As the labeling has moved from voluntary to mandatory there have been heavy industry pressures to slow the process down. They are a very powerful lobby including the salt institute. If you note many of the beverage industries also make many salted products. I do not think this is by chance. Dr. McGregor in Eng has estimated that decreasing salt intake in food will have a big impact on the soft drink and water industry. Less salt not so thirsty. Don't sell so many Cokes.

[Guest guest]

I have not. Lyme

research is in its infancy. No one

even knows how many strains there are of Lyme and its co-infections. Knowing what I know now, however, I

would always save the tick and get it tested.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ]

On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

They do not recommend that up here as too many ticks and when

taken off early little change of getting Lyme's they say.

I

have not seen a good study that testing ticks predicts who will get sick. Do

you?

[Guest guest]

Absolutely. Just as we like to see scientific

support for different medical situations, I prefer to see specific support for

accusations. The current housing

crisis can easily be traced to both parties.

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA

There is enough blame to go around in both

parties.

>

> >

> > Show me one Republican who has voiced the complaint that too many

> > people are living to be old.

[Guest guest]

There has been little if no public education, and most doctors

don’t seem to understand sodium either.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

We have been disclosing

at least on packages for 15 years and salt intake has not gone down.

Disclosure

without educating the public is not worth while I don't think. And there

are few choices if you eat out which lots of folks do at McDs

etc.

[Guest guest]

right most have given up because no one ever changes they say.CE There has been little if no public education, and most doctors don’t seem to understand sodium either. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimWe have been disclosing at least on packages for 15 years and salt intake has not gone down. Disclosure without educating the public is not worth while I don't think. And there are few choices if you eat out which lots of folks do at McDs etc.

[Guest guest]

I dont know where you send it to be tested up here. The state wont do it.CE Grim MDI have not. Lyme research is in its infancy. No one even knows how many strains there are of Lyme and its co-infections. Knowing what I know now, however, I would always save the tick and get it tested. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimThey do not recommend that up here as too many ticks and when taken off early little change of getting Lyme's they say. I have not seen a good study that testing ticks predicts who will get sick. Do you?

[Guest guest]

IgeneX in CA. There are others but I don’t know

about them.

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Clarence Grim

I dont know where you send it to

be tested up here. The state wont do it.

CE

Grim MD

On

Apr 25, 2010, at 6:35 PM, Valarie wrote:

I have not. Lyme research is in its infancy. No one even knows how many strains

there are of Lyme and its co-infections. Knowing what I know now, however, I

would always save the tick and get it tested.

[Guest guest]

Will see what the charge is. Need to know what the prob of infection if tick has L with Rx vs non-Rx, what Rx to use and the risks/benefits of Rx. People up here seem to have ticks every few weeks but most people do not have L.CE Grim MDIgeneX in CA. There are others but I don’t know about them. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimI dont know where you send it to be tested up here. The state wont do it. CE Grim MDI have not. Lyme research is in its infancy. No one even knows how many strains there are of Lyme and its co-infections. Knowing what I know now, however, I would always save the tick and get it tested.

[Guest guest]

There you'll get more arguments than you might think.

There are well established lobbies to protect the flyways.

Regards

Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

If you search for what eats ticks this comes up. I don't think it is the increase in deer that is the problem. More likey we are destroying habitat of the things that eat ticks.>> Francis, I have no idea about guinea fowl and ticks. I imagine the enviros'> insistence on every-increasing deer populations has been part of the Lyme> problem.> > Val> > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill> SUSPECTED PA> > > It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just> 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good> law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per> acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live>

[Guest guest]

But these guys and gals don't fly they stay here all year. Are they fair game or are they here just to keep our walks greene?CEThere you'll get more arguments than you might think.There are well established lobbies to protect the flyways. Regards Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods If you search for what eats ticks this comes up. I don't think it is the increase in deer that is the problem. More likey we are destroying habitat of the things that eat ticks.>> Francis, I have no idea about guinea fowl and ticks. I imagine the enviros'> insistence on every-increasing deer populations has been part of the Lyme> problem.> > Val> > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill> SUSPECTED PA> > > It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just> 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good> law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per> acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live>

[Guest guest]

The reps I talk to, don't vote that way, at least now.

We may be a select group, but we're not senile.

The number in the gym is increasing as talk gets out about exercise and health, eg.

We also talk, Dr's, and medications (what they really do).

EVERY male should get a urologist.

Regards

Re: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

But the Republicans complain too many people are living to be old and that is messing up SS.

On Apr 25, 2010, at 7:45 AM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:

Let me try this an other way. If our Gov hadn't made it a law to vaccinate everyone for smallpox many would still be getting it. My father had Polio he said the best thing that ever happened was having everyone vaccinated against it.> > >> > > I don't want more nanny-state laws. Require full disclosure and > > let people> > > choose what they want. It is not governments' job to tell us what > > to eat.> > > It is governments' job to require transparency.> > >> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Yes, but I'm unable to separate the ALL the causes of a general term, fibromyalgia, which may be caused by several medications, lack of BG control, gut problems, kidney problems, arthritic pain, and generalized joint pain.

I've never had Lyme but I know people who did. Oddly they're not dead before me.

Regards

RE: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

Ticks have been found to be carried by birds. Ya’ know, Dr. Grim, Wisconsin is heavily infested?

Does anyone find it interesting that two of us on this list have now been diagnosed with Lyme?

I belong to a tiny Yahoo group of women. Over the years, we’ve become friends as the result of other groups, namely thyroid and hormones, and as a result of our common symptoms. There are only seven of us. So far, three of us have been firmly diagnosed with Lyme. I think two others are likely.

CDC gets 20,000 reports a year but estimates that the actual incidence is 10 – 12 times that. 225,000 cases a year compares how with other ailments? How does that compare with HIV, Swine flu and PA?

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Oh and we need to be able to thin the goose population up here.

CE

Or someone is carrying the Lyme disease in place of the deer.

Regards

[Guest guest]

I carried the one tick to the Dr and he said it wasn;t a Lyme tick, and he examined the location of the bite. It leaves a circle or something. I can assure you we have a S/L of ticks - they're just not Lyme type.

And cattle raisers (who surround me with thousands (300k?) of cattle), regularly dip their herds.

And the S/L of other insects accompanied by regular use of insecticides - everywhere in Texas, maybe helps to keep the yankee ticks away.

Regards

RE: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

If you or yours ever get a tick bite, the actual tick should be tested. Testing ticks is easier than testing people.

That applies no matter where you live (unless at one of the poles).

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Lots of ticks here. Not much Lyme that I have seen. Many have had the test but all neg. It appears but lots of reported cases. My guess is that it is markedly undereported. No one had done a random survey up here that I know of.

CE

[Guest guest]

I think most Dr's just give a diuretic and say "next".

Regards

Re: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

right most have given up because no one ever changes they say.

CE

There has been little if no public education, and most doctors don’t seem to understand sodium either.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

We have been disclosing at least on packages for 15 years and salt intake has not gone down.

Disclosure without educating the public is not worth while I don't think. And there are few choices if you eat out which lots of folks do at McDs etc.

[Guest guest]

Well, not if you stay out of forests like your mommy said?

And maybe away from Colo. And NYC.

Regards

Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

It is only the deer tick that spreads lyme. There is more then one type but they are very small and most would not know they had one on them. The bigger ticks that most see can spread ehrlichiosis, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, Relapsing fever, Colorado tick fever and tularemia. For what ever reason the number of ticks in getting out of control. > > >> > IgeneX in CA. There are others but I don't know about them.> >> >> >> > Val> >> >> >> >> >> > From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > > ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim> >> >> > I dont know where you send it to be tested up here. The state wont > > do it.> >> >> >> > CE Grim MD> >> >

[Guest guest]

I would think a good INternist would be the best place to start. Hard to find tho.CE Grim MDThe reps I talk to, don't vote that way, at least now.We may be a select group, but we're not senile.The number in the gym is increasing as talk gets out about exercise and health, eg.We also talk, Dr's, and medications (what they really do).EVERY male should get a urologist. Regards Re: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods But the Republicans complain too many people are living to be old and that is messing up SS.On Apr 25, 2010, at 7:45 AM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:Let me try this an other way. If our Gov hadn't made it a law to vaccinate everyone for smallpox many would still be getting it. My father had Polio he said the best thing that ever happened was having everyone vaccinated against it.> > >> > > I don't want more nanny-state laws. Require full disclosure and > > let people> > > choose what they want. It is not governments' job to tell us what > > to eat.> > > It is governments' job to require transparency.> > >> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Most don't give a D first today unfortunately as Pharm has sold them on the newer ones.But maybe in Tx it is different.I think most Dr's just give a diuretic and say "next". Regards Re: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods right most have given up because no one ever changes they say.CE There has been little if no public education, and most doctors don’t seem to understand sodium either.ValFrom: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimWe have been disclosing at least on packages for 15 years and salt intake has not gone down.Disclosure without educating the public is not worth while I don't think. And there are few choices if you eat out which lots of folks do at McDs etc.

[Guest guest]

Guess you can troll for them by walking in the grass and then picking the off. and if you do it enough you will get rid of them. CE Grim MDOn Apr 26, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:It is becoming common to just work in your yard and get at least one tick on you. A walk in tall grass will net 4 or 5 ticks. > > > > >> > > IgeneX in CA. There are others but I don't know about them.> > >> > >> > >> > > Val> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > > > ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim> > >> > >> > > I dont know where you send it to be tested up here. The state wont > > > do it.> > >> > >> > >> > > CE Grim MD> > >> > >>