Re: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

[Guest guest]

Not talking about your nice note. Just saying others are beginning to say what we have been saying here forever. It was a sarcastic remark. Sorry if my humor did not come across.

Keep up the good work. Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD

Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism, Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in populations today.

>

Sorry, I'll go away now.

>

> > U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods: article on FoxNews about it:

> >

> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,591285,00.html

> >

> > "U.S. regulators are planning a push to gradually cut the amount of

> > salt Americans consume, saying less sodium would reduce deaths from

> > hypertension and heart disease, The Washington Post reported on

> > Tuesday.

> >

> > The effort would eventually lead to the first legal limits on the

> > amount of salt allowed in processed foods, the newspaper reported.

> > The plan is to be launched this year but officials have not set salt

> > limits.

> >

> > The government plans to work with the food industry and health

> > experts to reduce sodium gradually over a period of years to ratchet

> > down sodium consumption, the newspaper said, citing U.S. Food and

> > Drug Administration sources.

> >

> > U.S. researchers said in a recent study that working with the food

> > industry to cut salt intake by nearly 10 percent could prevent

> > hundreds of thousands of heart attacks and strokes over several

> > decades and save the U.S. government $32 billion in healthcare costs.

> >

> > Eating too much salt is a major cause of high blood pressure, which

> > the Institute of Medicine, one of the National Academies of

> > Sciences, last week declared a "neglected disease" that costs the

> > U.S. health system $73 billion a year.

> >

> > The FDA, which regulates most processed foods, and the U.S.

> > Agriculture Department, which oversees meat and poultry, will work

> > together on the effort to reduce Americans' sodium consumption.

> >

> > Manufacturers can now use as much salt as they like in products but

> > they are required to report the amount on nutrition labels.

> >

> > Many food makers have already begun to cut salt content.

> >

> > In March, PepsiCo Inc, which owns the Pepsi, Frito-Lay and Quaker

> > brands, announced that it plans a reduction of 25 percent in the

> > average sodium per serving in major global food brands in key

> > markets by 2015."

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I would be fine with that so long as it included a surgeon's general warning. To: hyperaldosteronism Sent: Fri, April 23, 2010 10:02:03 PMSubject: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in

Foods

So if they wanted to add 4500mg a serving this would be OK to you.

>

> I don't want more nanny-state laws. Require full disclosure and let people

> choose what they want. It is not governments' job to tell us what to eat.

> It is governments' job to require transparency.

>

> Val

>

>

> From: hyperaldosteronism@ yahoogroups. com

> [mailto:hyperaldosteronism@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of arrrrrj

>

>

> U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods: article on FoxNews about it:

>

> http://www.foxnews. com/story/ 0,2933,591285, 00.html

>

[Guest guest]

Full disclosure.  Full

transparency.

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Zhen Chu

I

would be fine with that so long as it included a surgeon's general

warning.

So if they wanted to add 4500mg a serving this would be OK

to you.

>

> I don't want more nanny-state laws. Require full disclosure and let people

> choose what they want. It is not governments' job to tell us what to eat.

> It is governments' job to require transparency.

>

> Val

[Guest guest]

But there is not that much room on a food label to do full disclosure. You mean like how much Pb, Hg, Cd, insecticides etc?I vote for showing what is important for most folks and salt is by far the most important at least for the 80+ million with unhealthy blood pressure in the US.So for full disclosure perhaps we should label any food in which a serving has more than 1500 mg of salt with something like:This amount of salt in one serving of this item is enough to raise most many people's blood pressure. Eating this serving will increase your risk of dementia, stroke, heart attack, heart, kidney and penis failure if you eat anything else today.for 750 we should say eating 2 of these a day will kill you before your time by stroke, heart failure etc.We also need to be teaching this stuff in school.At least as important as teaching anti-evolution BS.CE Grim MDFull disclosure. Full transparency. From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Zhen Chu I would be fine with that so long as it included a surgeon's general warning. From: Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA <georgewbill> So if they wanted to add 4500mg a serving this would be OK to you. >> I don't want more nanny-state laws. Require full disclosure and let people> choose what they want. It is not governments' job to tell us what to eat.> It is governments' job to require transparency.> > Val

[Guest guest]

Francis, I have no idea about guinea fowl and ticks. I imagine the enviros’ insistence

on every-increasing deer populations has been part of the Lyme problem.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill

SUSPECTED PA

It this statement is true Guineafowl

consume mass quantities of ticks. Just 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single

year. Do you think it would be a good law if our Gov would make it so there be

there had to be 1 guineafowl per acre. Where it was

shown deer ticks live

[Guest guest]

Write that up and you might win the poulitzer prize.CE Grim MDOn Apr 24, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live > > I don't want more nanny-state laws. Require full disclosure and let people> choose what they want. It is not governments' job to tell us what to eat.> It is governments' job to require transparency.>

[Guest guest]

Lets eat some deer!In MKE they want to tie their tubes at about $1000 each.I would rather treat HTN in the inner city. CE Grim MDFrancis, I have no idea about guinea fowl and ticks. I imagine the enviros’ insistence on every-increasing deer populations has been part of the Lyme problem. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PAIt this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live

[Guest guest]

Government would not accept this recmmendation as they know for sure

politicians will be eradicated in no time!

|It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities

|of ticks. Just 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do

|you think it would be a good law if our Gov would make it so

|there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per acre. Where it was

|shown deer ticks live

|

|

[Guest guest]

There are too many predators to keep a flock of any ground based birds, IMO.

Here we have many hawks as well - the populations of all would increase, not that it is a bad thing.

Careful what you wish for.

Sand hill cranes will nest on your roof - legally.

Here I looked for a chicken type bird, thinking fighting cocks would last, but in fact one guy had to let his go and they vanished.

I doubt any fowl will clear ticks, or any insect. Here we get droves of African egrets at times and they clear all the toads lizards, etc., but the reptiles come back annually.

Larger animals survive by moving away from predators or living where predators are wary.

Cattle here carry ticks if not kept cleaned and where I hunted we had no ticks until they brought in cattle to help clear the brush so humans could walk thru.

In a state loaded with cattle and deer, and hunters, I notice things like NYC area being higher risk.

Apparently something else at work?

I don't think laws do anything, not near as much as individuals can do to control fire ants, eg. Chiggers, eg,. We had one lot with millions of them, bot by a newbie and he apparently found a way to clear them.

Humans are so effective at killing animals, I don't understand why there are still lyme ticks. I've cleared the bag worms, daddy long legs, those huge striped spiders that use fish line for webs, and recently I found these sticky traps that will guard the doors.

I was amazed how many white lizards got caught

In some places here, people install permanent sprayers timed to kill spiders, et al, in their barns.

See one case of recluse spider bite and you get wary. I don't worry the snakes anymore.

Regards

Re: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

Write that up and you might win the poulitzer prize.

CE Grim MD

On Apr 24, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:

It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live >

[Guest guest]

Or someone is carrying the Lyme disease in place of the deer.

Regards

Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods

If you search for what eats ticks this comes up. I don't think it is the increase in deer that is the problem. More likey we are destroying habitat of the things that eat ticks.>> Francis, I have no idea about guinea fowl and ticks. I imagine the enviros'> insistence on every-increasing deer populations has been part of the Lyme> problem.> > Val> > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill> SUSPECTED PA> > > It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just> 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good> law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per> acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live>__________ NOD32 4893 (20100224) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Then it seems reasonable that humans can "carry" it if the number of insects is large.

We tend to think we're not bit that much - I can recall the last tick bite ~ 20 yrs ago.

There has to be a larger force at work.

Has it been proved tick to human to tick to human is not feasible?

Regards

Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods> > > > If you search for what eats ticks this comes up. > > I don't think it is the increase in deer that is the problem. More likey we are destroying habitat of the things that eat ticks.> >

[Guest guest]

Just open minded approach:

On the one hand you have a desire to do the "right" thing to benefit human health. On the other you have necessary food protection laws as well.

It's like this: I once told a friend I hated sauerkraut because it cleaned me out. he said, dummy you hafta boil it to get the salt out. Actually that's how they served it in the German restaurant.

IOW, it's just a preservative method.

Same with bacon. I don't eat bacon, or ground meat, or chicken without cooking it right.

My wife uses bacon to flavor greens, beans.

I microwave a burger to remove the fluid and out comes the salt. (use a folded paper towel to sop up the water. Also lotsa grease comes out.

I don't see the grocery food as near the problem as restaurant foods, where often you're hungry and one meal won't hurt. I have been places where Mac's fries without salt was the only thing I could eat.

The other thing I see is, the gov't laws just offer more opportunity for graft. I doubt they are effective.

That said, my favorite non-foods of the week are the ready to heat soups by campbells, kraft, and harvest something that have a gram (980 mg) of sodium and 240 kcals in labelled 2 servings. I see intelligent people eating these, when 2 slices of bread (or cookies) would do.

Regards

Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Better yet eat the deer.Government would not accept this recmmendation as they know for surepoliticians will be eradicated in no time!|It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities |of ticks. Just 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do |you think it would be a good law if our Gov would make it so |there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per acre. Where it was |shown deer ticks live ||

[Guest guest]

Oh and we need to be able to thin the goose population up here.CEOr someone is carrying the Lyme disease in place of the deer. Regards Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods If you search for what eats ticks this comes up. I don't think it is the increase in deer that is the problem. More likey we are destroying habitat of the things that eat ticks.>> Francis, I have no idea about guinea fowl and ticks. I imagine the enviros'> insistence on every-increasing deer populations has been part of the Lyme> problem.> > Val> > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill> SUSPECTED PA> > > It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just> 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good> law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per> acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live>__________ NOD32 4893 (20100224) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

On Apr 25, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:It it rats and mice that carry lyme. > >> > Francis, I have no idea about guinea fowl and ticks. I imagine the enviros'> > insistence on every-increasing deer populations has been part of the Lyme> > problem.> > > > Val> > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill> > SUSPECTED PA> > > > > > It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just> > 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good> > law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per> > acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live> >> > > > > > __________ NOD32 4893 (20100224) Information __________> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.> http://www.eset.com>

[Guest guest]

Someone mentioned a mother to fetus transmission of Lyme. CEThen it seems reasonable that humans can "carry" it if the number of insects is large.We tend to think we're not bit that much - I can recall the last tick bite ~ 20 yrs ago.There has to be a larger force at work.Has it been proved tick to human to tick to human is not feasible? Regards Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods> > > > If you search for what eats ticks this comes up. > > I don't think it is the increase in deer that is the problem. More likey we are destroying habitat of the things that eat ticks.> >

[Guest guest]

In the bottom line we all pay for the problems salt causes. But if we set up a urine salt test when you come in the hospital for stroke, heart attack, MI, CHF or renal failure or rusty arteries in neck heart kidneys or penis and it was too high you would have to pay a bigger part of the bill. Would lead to a black market, make that a yellow market, is low sodium urine to give in place of yous.Seems reasonable to decrease our costs if possible. Finland and Japan did it and strokes have come down. CE Grim MDOn Apr 25, 2010, at 9:56 AM, jwwright wrJust open minded approach:On the one hand you have a desire to do the "right" thing to benefit human health. On the other you have necessary food protection laws as well. It's like this: I once told a friend I hated sauerkraut because it cleaned me out. he said, dummy you hafta boil it to get the salt out. Actually that's how they served it in the German restaurant. IOW, it's just a preservative method. Same with bacon. I don't eat bacon, or ground meat, or chicken without cooking it right. My wife uses bacon to flavor greens, beans.I microwave a burger to remove the fluid and out comes the salt. (use a folded paper towel to sop up the water. Also lotsa grease comes out. I don't see the grocery food as near the problem as restaurant foods, where often you're hungry and one meal won't hurt. I have been places where Mac's fries without salt was the only thing I could eat. The other thing I see is, the gov't laws just offer more opportunity for graft. I doubt they are effective. That said, my favorite non-foods of the week are the ready to heat soups by campbells, kraft, and harvest something that have a gram (980 mg) of sodium and 240 kcals in labelled 2 servings. I see intelligent people eating these, when 2 slices of bread (or cookies) would do. Regards Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods> > > > >

[Guest guest]

I think the politically correct name is now chigroes. ;-)There are too many predators to keep a flock of any ground based birds, IMO.Here we have many hawks as well - the populations of all would increase, not that it is a bad thing. Careful what you wish for.Sand hill cranes will nest on your roof - legally. Here I looked for a chicken type bird, thinking fighting cocks would last, but in fact one guy had to let his go and they vanished. I doubt any fowl will clear ticks, or any insect. Here we get droves of African egrets at times and they clear all the toads lizards, etc., but the reptiles come back annually. Larger animals survive by moving away from predators or living where predators are wary.Cattle here carry ticks if not kept cleaned and where I hunted we had no ticks until they brought in cattle to help clear the brush so humans could walk thru. In a state loaded with cattle and deer, and hunters, I notice things like NYC area being higher risk.Apparently something else at work? I don't think laws do anything, not near as much as individuals can do to control fire ants, eg. Chiggers, eg,. We had one lot with millions of them, bot by a newbie and he apparently found a way to clear them. Humans are so effective at killing animals, I don't understand why there are still lyme ticks. I've cleared the bag worms, daddy long legs, those huge striped spiders that use fish line for webs, and recently I found these sticky traps that will guard the doors.I was amazed how many white lizards got caught In some places here, people install permanent sprayers timed to kill spiders, et al, in their barns. See one case of recluse spider bite and you get wary. I don't worry the snakes anymore. Regards Re: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods Write that up and you might win the poulitzer prize.CE Grim MDOn Apr 24, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live >

[Guest guest]

I would agree with that if proper training and monitoring is provided.On Apr 25, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:I used to think our Gov. was involved in many things they shouldn,t be. Still think the are in some things. Once I became a care giver to my father and mother it made me realize we need more Gov involvement in at least long term care. One should not be forced to choose between in home care and a nurseing home. Families should have the right to be paid the same money that nurseings homes get. > > > >> > > > Or someone is carrying the Lyme disease in place of the deer.> > > >> > > > Regards> > > >> > > > Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt > > in Foods> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

But the Republicans complain too many people are living to be old and that is messing up SS.On Apr 25, 2010, at 7:45 AM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:Let me try this an other way. If our Gov hadn't made it a law to vaccinate everyone for smallpox many would still be getting it. My father had Polio he said the best thing that ever happened was having everyone vaccinated against it.> > >> > > I don't want more nanny-state laws. Require full disclosure and > > let people> > > choose what they want. It is not governments' job to tell us what > > to eat.> > > It is governments' job to require transparency.> > >> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

When I grew up in N MO we never saw a deer but lots of ticks.We had a 1000 acre tree farm in the family which I walked all over many times. If we say a deer track we thought we were really seeing something rare. Now the have a season.Same for turkeys.CE Grim MDThere are too many predators to keep a flock of any ground based birds, IMO.Here we have many hawks as well - the populations of all would increase, not that it is a bad thing. Careful what you wish for.Sand hill cranes will nest on your roof - legally. Here I looked for a chicken type bird, thinking fighting cocks would last, but in fact one guy had to let his go and they vanished. I doubt any fowl will clear ticks, or any insect. Here we get droves of African egrets at times and they clear all the toads lizards, etc., but the reptiles come back annually. Larger animals survive by moving away from predators or living where predators are wary.Cattle here carry ticks if not kept cleaned and where I hunted we had no ticks until they brought in cattle to help clear the brush so humans could walk thru. In a state loaded with cattle and deer, and hunters, I notice things like NYC area being higher risk.Apparently something else at work? I don't think laws do anything, not near as much as individuals can do to control fire ants, eg. Chiggers, eg,. We had one lot with millions of them, bot by a newbie and he apparently found a way to clear them. Humans are so effective at killing animals, I don't understand why there are still lyme ticks. I've cleared the bag worms, daddy long legs, those huge striped spiders that use fish line for webs, and recently I found these sticky traps that will guard the doors.I was amazed how many white lizards got caught In some places here, people install permanent sprayers timed to kill spiders, et al, in their barns. See one case of recluse spider bite and you get wary. I don't worry the snakes anymore. Regards Re: Re: U.S. Plans Drive to Limit Salt in Foods Write that up and you might win the poulitzer prize.CE Grim MDOn Apr 24, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote:It this statement is true Guineafowl consume mass quantities of ticks. Just 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year. Do you think it would be a good law if our Gov would make it so there be there had to be 1 guineafowl per acre. Where it was shown deer ticks live >

[Guest guest]

Show me one Republican who has voiced the complaint that too

many people are living to be old. I

know of one Democrat congressman, Grayson from Florida, who accuses Republicans

of wanting people to die, but he provides no basis for his erratic accusation.

Anyone with half a brain understands that SS is under severe

pressure because people are living longer than anticipated when the law was

written.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

But the Republicans complain too many people are living to

be old and that is messing up SS.

[Guest guest]

Ticks have been found to be carried by birds. Ya’ know, Dr. Grim, Wisconsin is

heavily infested?

Does anyone find it interesting that two of us on this list have

now been diagnosed with Lyme?

I belong to a tiny Yahoo group of women. Over the years, we’ve become

friends as the result of other groups, namely thyroid and hormones, and as a

result of our common symptoms.

There are only seven of us.

So far, three of us have been firmly diagnosed with Lyme. I think two others are likely.

CDC gets 20,000 reports a year but estimates that the actual

incidence is 10 – 12 times that.

225,000 cases a year compares how with other ailments? How does that compare with HIV, Swine

flu and PA?

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Oh and we need to be able to thin the goose population up

here.

CE

On

Apr 25, 2010, at 9:00 AM, jwwright wrote:

Or someone is carrying

the Lyme disease in place of the deer.

Regards

[Guest guest]

There are articles about that, and a woman in “Under Our

Skin” transmitted it to her baby via the placenta.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Someone mentioned a mother to fetus transmission of Lyme.

CE

On

Apr 25, 2010, at 9:40 AM, jwwright wrote:

Then it seems reasonable that humans can " carry " it if

the number of insects is large.

We tend to think we're not bit that much - I can recall the last

tick bite ~ 20 yrs ago.

There has to be a larger force at work.

Has it been proved tick to human to tick to human is not feasible?

[Guest guest]

I’m all for public education and full disclosure. Every restaurant menu should have

nutrient information. Because

government requires disclosure, however, does not mean government should be

mandating what goes into a product.

Parts of current nutrient lists are a bit of a joke because they list %

of daily calories (usually based on 2,000 cal diet). What does that mean for people on a

1,200 calorie diet? That is a government

mandate at its finest. Without the

actual mg listings, the labels would mean nothing.

Government ought to be requiring full disclosure of what goes

into political committees, too, but that’s a topic for another day.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

In the bottom line we all pay for the problems salt causes.

But if we set up a urine salt test when you come in the hospital for

stroke, heart attack, MI, CHF or renal failure or rusty arteries in neck heart

kidneys or penis and it was too high you would have to pay a bigger part of the

bill. Would lead to a black market, make that a yellow market, is low

sodium urine to give in place of yous.

Seems

reasonable to decrease our costs if possible. Finland and Japan did it and

strokes have come down.