Re: Re: Long-term effects of dependency

[Guest guest]

I'm sure it was not inexpensive

to get 911 there, and I'm sure Kaiser is not happy.

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Clarence Grim

She should not have to endure pain

these days.

She is

in pain from her recent surgery and she desperately wants to live. My friend had to call 911 the other

night to get her pain meds. She called me to see if she was

over-reacting. Kaiser wants

to pull her feeding tube.

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

What is the prognosis? Is she comfortable. What does she want to do?

These are questions that must be considered.

[Guest guest]

You're still missing the

point. Once you turn 65, you have

NO CHOICE in insurance. That is un-American.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

You get what you pay for.

CE

Grim MD

On

Aug 31, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Valarie wrote:

The point is that I will not be able to use

my insurance because I have no intention of playing nice with a government

doctor. The point is I will

have NO CHOICE in insurance.

In

time, if the socialists get their way, no one will have any choice in doctors

either unless they take advantage of medical travel businesses like that of my

U.S. Representative, Polis. Already,

I have friends who get all their routine care done in Panama.

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

No

you will still be able to pay him. At least I would ask if he will not still

take your money. God bless America.

O n Aug

31, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Valarie

wrote:

My doctor

doesn't accept any insurance, Medicare or otherwise. Right now, I can

turn his bills in once I hit the deductible. Once I have to go on

Medicare, no part of his bills can be submitted to my " insurance " -

Medicare - ever! Never! Because he is not

a government sanctioned physician. Mind you, those on Medicare cannot buy

anything else. Medicare is their ONLY CHOICE.

[Guest guest]

No, there is NO CHOICE in

insurance if you are 65 or older.

You have Medicare or you have nothing (unless you're VA or something

like that).

As I've been posting things

here, I'm also posting them on Facebook.

I have 800 friends who have 800 friends who have … and so on.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

I just googled Health Insurance Companies and got:

61,700,000 hits. Pretty good choice it

would seem to me.

On

Aug 31, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Valarie wrote:

But the

point is

1) I have NO CHOICE in what I buy for

insurance

[Guest guest]

I don't know.

She has some disorder with her stomach/esophagus. She does not have cancer.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill

SUSPECTED PA

What was the reson for surgery?

>

> >

> > She is in pain from her recent surgery and she desperately wants to

> > live. My friend had to call 911 the other night to get her pain

> > meds. She called me to see if she was over-reacting. Kaiser wants

> > to pull her feeding tube.

[Guest guest]

See choices at:http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10043.htmlfor details.Brought to you by our civilized systemClarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD

Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism, Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in populations today.

No, there is NO CHOICE in

insurance if you are 65 or older.

You have Medicare or you have nothing (unless you're VA or something

like that).

As I've been posting things

here, I'm also posting them on Facebook.

I have 800 friends who have 800 friends who have … and so on.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

I just googled Health Insurance Companies and got:

61,700,000 hits. Pretty good choice it

would seem to me.

On

Aug 31, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Valarie wrote:

But the

point is

1) I have NO CHOICE in what I buy for

insurance

[Guest guest]

Some other options. http://www.amac.us/health-insurance-options-after-age-65/You can (should?) also buy nursing home insurance which is not currently covered by our civilized medicine. So you have lots of options there. Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD

Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism, Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in populations today.

You're still missing the

point. Once you turn 65, you have

NO CHOICE in insurance. That is un-American.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

You get what you pay for.

CE

Grim MD

On

Aug 31, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Valarie wrote:

The point is that I will not be able to use

my insurance because I have no intention of playing nice with a government

doctor. The point is I will

have NO CHOICE in insurance.

In

time, if the socialists get their way, no one will have any choice in doctors

either unless they take advantage of medical travel businesses like that of my

U.S. Representative, Polis. Already,

I have friends who get all their routine care done in Panama.

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism@yahoogroupscom] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

No

you will still be able to pay him. At least I would ask if he will not still

take your money. God bless America.

O n Aug

31, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Valarie

wrote:

My doctor

doesn't accept any insurance, Medicare or otherwise. Right now, I can

turn his bills in once I hit the deductible. Once I have to go on

Medicare, no part of his bills can be submitted to my "insurance" -

Medicare - ever! Never! Because he is not

a government sanctioned physician. Mind you, those on Medicare cannot buy

anything else. Medicare is their ONLY CHOICE.

[Guest guest]

Maybe the want to take the tube out to see if she can eat/swallow.

It cam a;waus bge [put back in.

Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD

Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism, Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent

evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in populations today.

>

>

> I don't know. She has some disorder with her stomach/esophagus. She does not

have cancer.

>

>

>

> Val

>

>

>

>

>

> From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED

PA

>

>

> What was the reson for surgery?

>

> >

> > >

> > > She is in pain from her recent surgery and she desperately wants to

> > > live. My friend had to call 911 the other night to get her pain

> > > meds. She called me to see if she was over-reacting. Kaiser wants

> > > to pull her feeding tube.

>

>

> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic

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[Guest guest]

I just noticed another typo in my original post. Your have to have less than 6 months to live to be eligible for hospice, not 10 months. Lordy, I'm getting senile :-)

much needed survice.

[Guest guest]

But they dont kick you out if you go longer. I say a man last year who have been in hospice for 2 years. I then changed his BP meds and he got out.CE Grim MDI just noticed another typo in my original post. Your have to have less than 6 months to live to be eligible for hospice, not 10 months. Lordy, I'm getting senile :-) much needed survice.

[Guest guest]

Probably got their attention.CE Grim MDI'm sure it was not inexpensive to get 911 there, and I'm sure Kaiser is not happy. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim She should not have to endure pain these days.She is in pain from her recent surgery and she desperately wants to live. My friend had to call 911 the other night to get her pain meds. She called me to see if she was over-reacting. Kaiser wants to pull her feeding tube. From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimWhat is the prognosis? Is she comfortable. What does she want to do? These are questions that must be considered.

[Guest guest]

Same thing happened to the father of a friend of mine, his CHF was uncontrolled and he kept going into pulmonary edema and he requested hospice care. His doctor kept changing his cardiac meds and diuretics around and got it under control and he stopped hospice at his request. He re-entered about a year later for the same thing and died about 8 months later. As long as a person is deemed terminal they can remain in hospice longer than 6 months if necessary. The hospice workers that I've met have all been incredibly caring, sensitive and empathetic people.

much needed survice.

[Guest guest]

and thats where I'm going when the time comes.I hope.Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD

Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism, Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in populations today.

Same thing happened to the father of a friend of mine, his CHF was uncontrolled and he kept going into pulmonary edema and he requested hospice care. His doctor kept changing his cardiac meds and diuretics around and got it under control and he stopped hospice at his request. He re-entered about a year later for the same thing and died about 8 months later. As long as a person is deemed terminal they can remain in hospice longer than 6 months if necessary. The hospice workers that I've met have all been incredibly caring, sensitive and empathetic people.

much needed survice.

[Guest guest]

And I'll be right there next to you.

much needed survice.

[Guest guest]

She made the (possibility) fatal mistake of thinking an HMO

cared about her life.

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Clarence Grim

I thought that was called slavery?

I am

sure Kaiser would let her go anywhere she wants to pay.

It is Kaiser because she has a

Medicare Advantage plan with them. Until she

can escape, Kaiser owns her.

Val

[Guest guest]

a, I'm all for advanced directives and I think hospice

is a wonderful service. We used it

a year ago for my MIL. The thing

is, advanced directives are personal choice. Hospice is a personal choice.

Neither concept should have anything to do with government control.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of a Hall

Respect

for life, hmmm.... There needs to also be respect for human

dignity. Situations like this can be debated ad nauseum without any one

changing their opinion, it's a very personal thing. This is why

everyone needs to have Advance Directives drawn up indicating their medical

wishes before a catastrophic medical occurrence happens. My mother and

father-in-law received hospice care before their deaths and I can tell you

they perform a much needed survice. In order to be eligible for

hospice it must be deemed that a person has a life expectancy of less than 10

months, you can't just put anybody into hospice.

Having

spend 35+ years in the medical field, I can tell you there are some things

worse than death. I've seen them.

a

[Guest guest]

If you are 65 or older you qualify

for Medicare if you are a U.S. citizen or a permanent resident. If you don't

meet all the following requirements for Medicare, you may still be able to get

it if you pay a monthly premium. You

need to meet at least one of the following requirements to qualify - you are

eligible to or currently receive Social Security benefits, you are eligible or

currently receive railroad retirement benefits, you and your living, deceased,

or divorced spouse worked a qualifying amount of time in a government job in

which Medicare taxes were paid or you're a dependent parent of someone who

worked a qualifying amount of time in a government job in which Medicare taxes

were paid.

If you've worked enough quarters,

you qualify for social security or a government/railroad retirement. If you qualify for them, you qualify for

social security. I Googled all that; I assume you could, too.

I assume that if someone can't get

Medicare, they either get welfare or have sufficient resources. No one in America goes without health

care.

The

Big Lie of Health Care Reform

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/the_big_lie_of_health_care_ref.html

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA

Not every one 65 can get medicare.

What do they do?

[Guest guest]

No options there.  It is Medicare, socialized medicine for the

elderly.  Nothing close to representing

choice.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Some

other options. http://www.amac.us/health-insurance-options-after-age-65/

You can (should?) also buy nursing home insurance which is not currently

covered by our civilized medicine. So you have lots of options there.

You're still

missing the point. Once you turn 65, you have NO CHOICE in

insurance. That is un-American.

[Guest guest]

Don't know. I have not been that involved. My friend just called in a panic to

ask me if she was overreacting by calling 911 when her mother could not get any

help.

Val

-----Original Message-----

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Maybe the want to take the tube out to see if she can eat/swallow.

It cam a;waus bge [put back in.

[Guest guest]

We have not seen free markets in

health care, at least not since government got involved. If people were able to shop and use

their health care dollars as they see fit, competition would increase, quality

would increase, and prices would fall.

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA

Insurances has always been a free

enterprise system. All insurance is based on risk management. This is how they

set what you pay them. The more risk they have the more you pay.

As seen in the past few years there was price fixing going on and AIG was the

leader in doing this. So much for the Insurance Co letting the free enterprise

system work.

>

[Guest guest]

We hope that is what is going to happen.CE Grim MDWe have not seen free markets in health care, at least not since government got involved. If people were able to shop and use their health care dollars as they see fit, competition would increase, quality would increase, and prices would fall. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA Insurances has always been a free enterprise system. All insurance is based on risk management. This is how they set what you pay them. The more risk they have the more you pay.As seen in the past few years there was price fixing going on and AIG was the leader in doing this. So much for the Insurance Co letting the free enterprise system work. >

[Guest guest]

Nor do they as far as I can tell. ie govt does not control personal choice with advance directives. If anything gov/hosp tend to want to prolong life when it is not appropriate at least from my point of view. CE Grim MDa, I'm all for advanced directives and I think hospice is a wonderful service. We used it a year ago for my MIL. The thing is, advanced directives are personal choice. Hospice is a personal choice. Neither concept should have anything to do with government control. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of a Hall Respect for life, hmmm.... There needs to also be respect for human dignity. Situations like this can be debated ad nauseum without any one changing their opinion, it's a very personal thing. This is why everyone needs to have Advance Directives drawn up indicating their medical wishes before a catastrophic medical occurrence happens. My mother and father-in-law received hospice care before their deaths and I can tell you they perform a much needed survice. In order to be eligible for hospice it must be deemed that a person has a life expectancy of less than 10 months, you can't just put anybody into hospice. Having spend 35+ years in the medical field, I can tell you there are some things worse than death. I've seen them. a

[Guest guest]

This guy needs to visit, better yet work in for a month, an inner city emergency room sometime.CE Grim MDThe Big Lie of Health Care Reformhttp://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/the_big_lie_of_health_care_ref.html

[Guest guest]

And what r ur ?Tiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertension

stop hijacking this thread. I came back after a few days to see if I would get any support or answers to my questions. I see 127 replies. I think. Wow supportive group. I read and find no answers to questions just a hijacked thread.

> >

> > Berwick's work is an excellent source for those who will argue that socialized medicine, redistribution of income, loss of freedom, and death panels are absolutely not what America wants. For him to be in charge of the official death panel for those over 65 is truly a betrayal of the American people.

> >

> >

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[Guest guest]

I hate to keep beating this dead

horse, but response is necessary.

Everyone misses one of the major

points of Obamacare. Medicare will

have a panel that decides global budgets and rationing based on " evidence

based medicine. " They're

already doing that in the UK.

That's what that Berwick guy is so excited to do. The one exciting thing for me right now

is that Obamacare will likely never get funded.

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Clarence Grim

Nor do they as far as I can tell.

ie govt does not control personal choice with advance directives. If

anything gov/hosp tend to want to prolong life when it is not appropriate at

least from my point of view.

CE

Grim MD

On

Aug 31, 2010, at 9:01 PM, Valarie wrote:

a, I'm all for advanced directiv es and I

think hospice is a wonderful service. We

used it a year ago for my MIL. The

thing is, advanced directives are personal choice. Hospice is a personal choice.

Neither

concept should have anything to do with government control.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of a Hall

Respect for life, hmmm.... There needs to also be

respect for human dignity. Situations like this can be debated ad

nauseum without any one changing their opinion, it's a very personal

thing. This is why everyone needs to have Advance Directives drawn up

indicating their medical wishes b efore a catastrophic medical occurrence

happens. My mother and father-in-law received hospice care before their

deaths and I can tell you they perform a much needed survice. In

order to be eligible for hospice it must be deemed that a person has a life

expectancy of less than 10 months, you can't just put anybody into hospice.

Having spend 35+ years in the medical field, I can tell

you there are some things worse than death. I've seen them.

a

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, but there is

virtually no way that total government management of health care will result in

anything close to free markets, lower prices and increased quality. Government intervention always decreases

quality. Look at the post

office. Every insurance policy will

be controlled as to what it must offer and what it will pay. Rates are going to increase significantly

over the next few years. Medicare

(socialized medicine for the elderly) has the highest denial rate of any

insurance and loses $60 billion a year to fraud and waste. It is so expensive for a reason. Vendors clamor to get Medicare

recipients' business with home health care, etc. The only ones who don't get paid well

are doctors. Imagine how good it

would be if each of those Medicare recipients could take his/her health care dollars

and SHOP.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

We hope that is what is going to happen.

On

Aug 31, 2010, at 9:54 PM, Valarie wrote:

We have not seen free markets in health

care, at least not since government got involved. If people were able to shop and use

their health care dollars as they see fit, competition would increase, quality

would increase, and prices would fall.

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA

Insurances has always been a free enterprise system. All insurance is

based on risk management. This is how they set what you pay them. The more risk

they have the more you pay.

As seen in the past few years there was price fixing going on and AIG was the

leader in doing this. So much for the Insurance Co letting the free enterprise

system work.