Re: Lumbar Disc Herniation

[Guest guest]

I don't do back surgery, but have had at least 5 patients who had back surgery

and returned to PL and/or WL with minimal problems(except it took up to a

year to get back to their original level)

T. Herrick,MD

Chairman,Medical Committee

PanAmerican Weightlifting Federation

Member, Medical Committee

International Weightlifting Federation

PO Box 4160

Opelika, AL

USA

---------

From: " JEREMY HARDISON "

> I am a 26 year old male. I am about to undergo

> surgery for two herniated disks at L4-L5 and L5-S1. I

> believe I injured myself after a fall from about ten

> feet. I have been Olympic Lifting for about three

> years. I am not particularly good at it, but I really

> enjoy doing it.

>

> I asked the doctor if I would ever be able to do OL again.

> After explaining to me the dangers of free weights

> (typical doctor) he said I would never be able to OL again.

> He also mentioned any maximal lifting would be out of the

> question as well. I wanted to ask the group if anyone was

> familiar with this type of injury, and if anyone is

> aware of someone that has been able to return to OL

> after a similar injury.

>

> Thanks

>

> Hardison

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if

you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

,

I have worked with several individuals who have had lumbar injuries,

herniations, surgery or not. All (well, except one) have been able to

return to some level of previous activity. Much of your recovery involves

pain management. And it is a SLOW process, sometimes ten steps forward, and

another 500 steps back.

I would be happy to discuss with you further your individual case here and

provide you thoughts regarding the specific type of surgery and what you can

realistically see as results and some methodologies for recovery that you

may wish to pursue.

Meg Stolt

New York, NY

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of

residence if you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

, what is the surgery? Is he fusing the vertebrae together? If that

is the case, then you will have limited flexion and extension in the lower

back which could be problematic.

I currently have 2 herniated disks in my back, at the same level as yours,

and I'm am able to do snatches without a problem. If I do a heavy clean and

get the weight to far in front of me, or if my back rounds when dropping to

catch the weight, then I will aggravate my condition and be out of

commission for a week. But the snatches keep a good arch in my back. I can

snatch 85kg, which isn't real heavy, but not bad for a 400m hurdler.

Andy Eggerth

Track and Field Director

Blaine, MN

--------

I am a 26 year old male. I am about to undergo

surgery for two herniated disks at L4-L5 and L5-S1. I

believe I injured myself after a fall from about ten

feet. I have been Olympic Lifting for about three

years. I am not particularly good at it, but I really

enjoy doing it.

I asked the doctor if I would ever be able to do OL again.

After explaining to me the dangers of free weights

(typical doctor) he said I would never be able to OL again.

He also mentioned any maximal lifting would be out of the

question as well. I wanted to ask the group if anyone was

familiar with this type of injury, and if anyone is

aware of someone that has been able to return to OL

after a similar injury.

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of

residence if you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

,

I had the surgery at l5/S1 when I was 46 years old rather than 26. Within

1 year I was able to squat 87% of my previous all time best. My lumbar area

has been fine. There was a fear factor to get over, and since, other injuries

have been a limiting factor. But I believe you will be able to continue when

fully rehabilitated.

To begin, I think walking will be one of the best movements.

best wishes

Mike us

St Louis Mo

mp1463@...

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full genuine name and city of

residence if you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

This is essentially for interest and consideration only, but yesterday I

received a report

from a Medical Practitioner in Melbourne, who had been doing BMS Therapy on five

Veteran Athletes presenting with Chronic Low Back Pain and Sciatica, and he

wanted to

share his findings.

[What exactly is " BMS Therapy " ? Does this mean " Biomechanical Something "

therapy and, if it indeed includes the word " biomechanics " what makes this

treatment more biomechanical than any other form of therapy that involves

some mechanical action? By the way, was this " Medical Practitioner " a medical

doctor or orthopaedic surgeon - or some therapist specialising in some other

aspect of overall physical therapy? Mel Siff]

The work is unpublished and was as follows.

Subject 1. A 46 yr old Runner with Runners Sciatica had an 80% improvement in

extension and a 25% improvements in Flexion after four treatments.

Subject 2. A 50 yr old Runner with Runners Sciatica, marked kyphoscoliosis

Dowagers

Hump, had a 60% improve of extension and a 15.3% improve of flexion after four

treatments.

Subject 3. A 45 yr old Ex Gymnast CLBP & cervical and thoracic pain. Flexion

66.7% improve,

and Extension 337.5% improvement after four treatments.

Subject 4. A 64 yr old Squash Player CLBP & Buttock and thigh pain. Bilateral

recurrent

achilles musculo-tendinous junction tears - Flexion 16.7% improve and Extension

113.3% improvement after two treatments.

Subject 5. A 47 yr old Runner. 36.4% Flexion improvement and 191.7% Extension

improvement after two treatments.

[How were these changes in joint range measured and were any attempts made to

determine

where in the spine the greatest changes in range of movement took place? Were

all changes

definitely confined to the lumbar spine and were all contributions by pelvic

rotation

completely eliminated? Incidentally, one can elicit similar magnitude of change

in joint

range of action in one session via the application of several different methods

such as PNF,

massage, pharmacological intervention, yoga relaxation and pre-exercise " warming

up. "

However, this is not to state that such changes become chronic or enhance

athletic

performance. Mel Siff]

Alan BROWN

MELBOURNE

----- Original Message -----

From: T. Herrick, MD

I don't do back surgery, but have had at least 5 patients who had back

surgery

and returned to PL and/or WL with minimal problems(except it took up to a

year to get back to their original level)

---------

From: " JEREMY HARDISON "

> I am a 26 year old male. I am about to undergo

> surgery for two herniated disks at L4-L5 and L5-S1. I

> believe I injured myself after a fall from about ten

> feet. I have been Olympic Lifting for about three

> years. I am not particularly good at it, but I really

> enjoy doing it.

>

> I asked the doctor if I would ever be able to do OL again.

> After explaining to me the dangers of free weights

> (typical doctor) he said I would never be able to OL again.

> He also mentioned any maximal lifting would be out of the

> question as well. I wanted to ask the group if anyone was

> familiar with this type of injury, and if anyone is

> aware of someone that has been able to return to OL

> after a similar injury.

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if

you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

I believe multi-olympic weightlifting medalist Norb Schemansky of

Detroit, MI, had surgery for lumbar disc pathology in the early 1960s

when the surgical techniques were not anywhere as advanced as they are

today. He recovered to set a world record in the snatch (165 kg.) all

while in his 40s.

Dan Wathen,

Youngstown (OH) State University

--------

T. Herrick, MD wrote:

> I don't do back surgery, but have had at least 5 patients who had back

surgery

> and returned to PL and/or WL with minimal problems(except it took up to a

> year to get back to their original level)

---------

From: " JEREMY HARDISON "

> > I am a 26 year old male. I am about to undergo

> > surgery for two herniated disks at L4-L5 and L5-S1. I

> > believe I injured myself after a fall from about ten

> > feet. I have been Olympic Lifting for about three

> > years. I am not particularly good at it, but I really

> > enjoy doing it.

> >

> > I asked the doctor if I would ever be able to do OL again.

> > After explaining to me the dangers of free weights

> > (typical doctor) he said I would never be able to OL again.

> > He also mentioned any maximal lifting would be out of the

> > question as well. I wanted to ask the group if anyone was

> > familiar with this type of injury, and if anyone is

> > aware of someone that has been able to return to OL

> > after a similar injury.

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full genuine name and city of

residence if you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

If you don't mind answering, what type of surgery did you have? I am

impressed that you have been able to get back to almost 90% of your previous

best. Do you have any leg or low back pain/numbness? My wife had a

laminectomy a few years ago, and she still many problems. We have been to

countless doctors and pain clinics with no luck.

Any help is appreciated,

Brent

Townsville...

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full genuine name and

city of residence if you wish them to be published!

---------

Mike us wrote:

> ,

>

> I had the surgery at l5/S1 when I was 46 years old rather than 26. Within

> 1 year I was able to squat 87% of my previous all time best. My lumbar area

>

> has been fine. There was a fear factor to get over, and since, other

> injuries

> have been a limiting factor. But I believe you will be able to continue

> when

> fully rehabilitated.

>

> To begin, I think walking will be one of the best movements.

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full genuine name and

city of residence if you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

Brent, all my lumbar discs are compressed; however, this has never caused me

any pain. The l5/S1 was ruptured putting pressure on the nerves going down my

right hip thru the quad and into the top of the knee. I tried working thru

it, around it, but the pain was constant so I decided it was time to go.

after the extruding disk was cut away from the nerves, the pain disapeared.

There was the initial discomfort of the incision, etc. but the constant

stabbing pain was gone. I started very slowly, walking every day.This was a

good therapy for me, as it brought blood to the area. I did a ton of

bodyweight only back raises, being sure not to hyperextend, and abs. When

able, I did squats with the bar only, and added weight without pushing it.

I dont know what your doctors have looked at or advised. What type of

pain is she experiencing? What has she done to rehab?

If I can share anything else let me know.

Mike us

St Louis Mo.

mp1463@...

[Guest guest]

I wonder why your prolapsed IV disc at L5/S1 disc gave problems in an upper

Lumbar NR distribution only?

Sam Bowden

London

--------

Mike us wrote:

>Brent, all my lumbar discs are compressed; however, this has never caused

>me any pain. The l5/S1 was ruptured putting pressure on the nerves going down

>my right hip thru the quad and into the top of the knee. I tried working thru

>it, around it, but the pain was constant so I decided it was time to go.

>after the extruding disk was cut away from the nerves, the pain disapeared.

>

>There was the initial discomfort of the incision, etc. but the constant

>stabbing pain was gone. I started very slowly, walking every day.This was a

>good therapy for me, as it brought blood to the area. I did a ton of

>bodyweight only back raises, being sure not to hyperextend, and abs. When

>able, I did squats with the bar only, and added weight without pushing it.

>

>I dont know what your doctors have looked at or advised. What type of

>pain is she experiencing? What has she done to rehab?

>

>If I can share anything else let me know.

[Guest guest]

JEREMY HARDISON wrote:

> I am a 26 year old male. I am about to undergo

> surgery for two herniated disks at L4-L5 and L5-S1. I

> believe I injured myself after a fall from about ten feet. ....

This is an old post:

<<I'll look for a site about hernias which i have read some time ago,

but basically, some people find that after months or years, the

condition simply disappears ( the info was at this site ). It was

theorized that macrophages could possibly be phagocyting the

extrused material as some form of strange protein to the body.

I have 2 friends who have gone through that. One is a former

paratrooper, he lived with some mild low back pain due to the

years of jumping off airplanes, then during a hack machine

workout with 4 or 5 plates, he got stuck, and he was training

without his partners. He swung his back and butt out of the

machine to the front, bowing his body, then backward again.

He was able to get off the bottom this way and could lock the

machine, but felt severe pain. Over the following week

he couldn't walk and living was just pain ! He got a MRI, i did see

it , there was a BIG ball, I guess greater than a coin, outside the

vertebrae - I was horrified ! Two or 3 doctors suggested

surgery as fast as possible, but he did refuse it ! He stayed with

just anti inflamatories.

After 2 or 3 weeks, he was walking again, after 6 weeks or so, he

was training his upper body, 3 to 4 months later he was squatting

with 3 plates for 10 reps! I saw it ! I spotted him !

I dont know if he did a new MRI, but he is training heavier than

before.

The other man did a MRI one year after his first episode, and there

wasn't any hernia there..

I would be careful with training. I think that " max effort " workouts

with rack lockouts, bent-over good mornings and any form of box

squatting are a big no no... Dumbbell side bends, one arm deadlifts,

one arm overhead press too...

I would do Partial deadlifts, sumo deadlifts, moderate squats

(full depth can be painful for some people ), arched back

good-mornings, keystone deadlifts, short range back raises. For

obliques and lumbar muscles i would do lying side trunk raises at

floor, if you can do it easily and pain free, you can try lying

sideways off a bench with your legs held by a partner.

Mild hyperextension stretches done at floor, or hyperextension back

raises also give relief to some people. Its believed that such exercises

could maybe push the nucleus of the disc back under the vertebrae

(the opposite happens when you do full range spinal flexion ).>>

Denilson Costa

Rio de Janeiro - Brasil

[Guest guest]

Dr Marx is a Sclerotherapist and Vascular Surgeon who conducts a specialist

Sports Vascular Medicine Clinic in Melbourne. He measured the " True " Lumbar

range of motion (Flexion/Extension improvements) with the dual inclineometer

technique.

[This non-radiographic method cannot measure the changes in range of motion

associated with each joint (vertebra). Mel Siff]

Both back and leg pain subjectively decreased in all cases.

In addition, running performance improved in all cases, as measured by

stopwatch. Their times improved for distances between 800m and 10,000m.

[This still does not explain what is meant by " BMS Therapy " . What is it?? How

did he show that these changes were due to " BMS " and not other factors involved

in

the treatment process, including placebo and general relaxation facilitated by

the therapist? Mel Siff]

Alan Brown

MELBOURNE

--------

Alan Brown wrote:

This is essentially for interest and consideration only, but yesterday I

received a report

from a Medical Practitioner in Melbourne, who had been doing BMS Therapy on

five

Veteran Athletes presenting with Chronic Low Back Pain and Sciatica, and he

wanted to

share his findings.

[What exactly is " BMS Therapy " ? Does this mean " Biomechanical Something "

therapy and, if it indeed includes the word " biomechanics " what makes this

treatment more biomechanical than any other form of therapy that involves

some mechanical action? By the way, was this " Medical Practitioner " a medical

doctor or orthopaedic surgeon - or some therapist specialising in some other

aspect of overall physical therapy? Mel Siff]

The work is unpublished and was as follows.

Subject 1. A 46 yr old Runner with Runners Sciatica had an 80% improvement in

extension and a 25% improvements in Flexion after four treatments.

Subject 2. A 50 yr old Runner with Runners Sciatica, marked kyphoscoliosis

Dowagers

Hump, had a 60% improve of extension and a 15.3% improve of flexion after four

treatments.

Subject 3. A 45 yr old Ex Gymnast CLBP & cervical and thoracic pain. Flexion

66.7% improve,

and Extension 337.5% improvement after four treatments.

Subject 4. A 64 yr old Squash Player CLBP & Buttock and thigh pain.

Bilateral recurrent

achilles musculo-tendinous junction tears - Flexion 16.7% improve and

Extension

113.3% improvement after two treatments.

Subject 5. A 47 yr old Runner. 36.4% Flexion improvement and 191.7%

Extension

improvement after two treatments.

Mel Siff wrote:

[How were these changes in joint range measured and were any attempts made to

determine

where in the spine the greatest changes in range of movement took place? Were

all changes

definitely confined to the lumbar spine and were all contributions by pelvic

rotation

completely eliminated? Incidentally, one can elicit similar magnitude of

change in joint

range of action in one session via the application of several different

methods such as PNF,

massage, pharmacological intervention, yoga relaxation and pre-exercise

" warming up. "

However, this is not to state that such changes become chronic or enhance

athletic

performance. ]

---------

* Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if

you wish them to be published!