Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 Bridgette Grant writes: << I just recently did a college paper on the stimulating harmful effects of Ephedrine, otherwise known as Ma Huang. I am just curious to know how many super athletes, or hard corps trainer take this supplement, in the form of Hydroxycut, Xenedrine, Diet Fuel, Ripped Fuel, Betalean, etc......... >> Well if you have a line to the afterlife you might ask a legion of athletes who died of 'suspicious " causes who might be effected by stimulants --start with the Mentzer brothers--they were big into this stuff and ephedrine is in the same class as amphetamines. I cant think of any reason why any healthy person would use this stuff--the PIPER *always* demands his due--sooner for some than others. I know! Jerry Telle Lakewood CO USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 I just recently did a college paper on the stimulating harmful effects of Ephedrine, otherwise known as Ma Huang. I am just curious to know how many super athletes, or hard corps trainer take this supplement, in the form of Hydroxycut, Xenedrine, Diet Fuel, Ripped Fuel, Betalean, etc......... I took this supplement for many many years, periodically cycling off... Who are the candidates that get the blackouts, heart attacks, seizures, depression, and death? What factors are the contributors, when my research shows that people with no heart problems, or health problems took two to four doses, and died? Why? [This is the major problem - there is really no way of predicting who will be made more susceptible to cardiac failure or seizures by the use of any stimulants. The classic risk factors associated with cardiac problems do not necessarily enable one to adequately screen people for cardiac disease, since at least a third of all people who exhibit no classical risk factors for cardiac disease will experience a fatal or near fatal heart attack. Mel Siff] Bridgette Grant Kailua, HI bridgette_grant@... *Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you wish them to be published! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Bridgette Grant writes: > I just recently did a college paper on the stimulating harmful > effects of Ephedrine, otherwise known as Ma Huang. I am just curious > to know how many super athletes, or hard corps trainer take this > supplement, in the form of Hydroxycut, Xenedrine, Diet Fuel, Ripped > Fuel, Betalean, etc......... >> > > Well if you have a line to the afterlife you might ask a legion of athletes > who died of 'suspicious " causes who might be effected by stimulants The number of athletes who have died of " suspicious " causes are " legion " ? You and I must have different definitions of " legion " . > - start with the Mentzer brothers- they were big into this stuff Yeah. It was the ephedrine. The drinking, smoking and renal failure were probably not a problem. It was the ephedrine. > and ephedrine is in the same class as amphetamines. And codeine is in the same class as heroin, so let's not be doing any dangerous cough medicine. > I cant think of any reason why any healthy person would use this stuff Pre-workout stimulation, dieting, keeping alert after14 hours at work. > -the PIPER *always* demands his due--sooner for some than others. I know! What you " know " is highly suspect. W Cohen Las Vegas, NV the cultural center of the US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Schaefer wrote: << Also I have heard there are cases of severe addiction to ephedrine ranging from 10 to 100 pills per DAY of the substance - and that there is apparently some new demand for the treatment of such addiction. >> This is not a question at, but to you --what is different about this addiction and any other amphetamine addiction? " New demand for the treatment of such addiction " Jerry Telle lakewood CO USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Dear Bridgette I have heard of a study put together by the Texas State Department of Health - perhaps contacting them would get you a copy. It's said to be pretty comprehensive, covering the side effects, how much was taken, and who was taking the product containing ephedrine. I read a summary but not the complete study> Also I have heard there are cases of severe addiction to ephedrine ranging from 10 to 100 pills per DAY of the substance - and that there is apparently some new demand for the treatment of such addiction. So apparently the tolerance for the substance can vary greatly in individuals - some get side-effects from 1/2 the label dosage - others can apparently take a great deal with some measure of impunity - resulting in addiction but survival. Caffeine has a similar variance but I doubt even it can be this extreme of a 1/2 dose to 100 a day - Anyway, that study is said to be a foundation for investigation by the FDA to perhaps consider removal of ephedrine supplements from the consumer market in the USA. Ephedrine is banned by USOC/IOC and the USAPL and IPF for competition usage and lifters must sign a statement saying they have not used such products the prior 7 days before a competition. Detection in your drug test results in suspension from competition. If anyone has a link for the study or more information on it, I'd appreciate the link to the list as well. Thanks. The Phantom aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter Denver, Colorado, USA ----------- Bridgette Grant wrote: > I just recently did a college paper on the stimulating harmful > effects of Ephedrine, otherwise known as Ma Huang. I am just curious > to know how many super athletes, or hard corps trainer take this > supplement, in the form of Hydroxycut, Xenedrine, Diet Fuel, Ripped > Fuel, Betalean, etc......... > > I took this supplement for many many years, periodically cycling off... > Who are the candidates that get the blackouts, heart attacks, seizures, > depression, and death? > > What factors are the contributors, when my research shows that people with > no heart problems, or health problems took two to four doses, and died? Why? Mel Siff: > [This is the major problem - there is really no way of predicting who will > be made more susceptible to cardiac failure or seizures by the use of any > stimulants. The classic risk factors associated with cardiac problems do > not necessarily enable one to adequately screen people for cardiac disease, > since at least a third of all people who exhibit no classical risk factors > for cardiac disease will experience a fatal or near fatal heart attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Bridgette Grant wrote: <<I just recently did a college paper on the stimulating harmful effects of Ephedrine, otherwise known as Ma Huang. I am just curious to know how many super athletes, or hard corps trainer take this supplement, in the form of Hydroxycut, Xenedrine, Diet Fuel, Ripped Fuel, Betalean, etc.........>>> **** Note, I don't think ephedrine is also known as Ma Huang. I believe it is ephedra which is known as Ma Huang. Ephedrine is the main active chemical component of ephedra. << I took this supplement for many many years, periodically cycling off...Who are the candidates that get the blackouts, heart attacks, seizures, depression, and death? What factors are the contributors, when my research shows that people with no heart problems, or health problems took two to four doses, and died? Why?>> **** Would it be possible for you to share some of your research with the group? Many thanks Carruthers Wakefield UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Bridgette, Do you have any data on how many deaths can be attributed to ephedrine-like substances for those who don't fit into the contraindicated categories listed on the back of all of these supplements? I might be wrong, but it seems to me that aspirin can be linked to more deaths annually than ephedrine can. [Are you also suggesting, since some athletes take a combination (ECA) of ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin, that the risks may be even higher? Mel Siff] Bill Abbott NYC --------- Bridgette Grant writes: > I just recently did a college paper on the > stimulating harmful > effects of Ephedrine, otherwise known as Ma Huang. I > am just curious > to know how many super athletes, or hard corps > trainer take this > supplement, in the form of Hydroxycut, Xenedrine, > Diet Fuel, Ripped > Fuel, Betalean, etc......... >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 Jerry, I think the question is this. How many OVER THE COUNTER substances, other than cigarettes or alcohol, prompt such addiction treatment? I am paraphrasing part of the notice I read that said that was the case. I suppose I could say, call treatment centers and ask them. I found that particular item of interest in the varying degree to which people clearly respond to ephedrine products. In that some people can apparently DIE from 1 dose - while others get buzzed on 10 to 100 a day and obviously are ALIVE to be treated for an addiction? Clearly the sensitivity of such a RANGE is quite interesting...... And other than that, what is your question? it is the centers who said they were seeing such people and " surprised " at having so many people show up with strictly ephedrine addictions, not methamphetamine - legal addictions! I did not say I personally would be surprised at treatment being required for illegal or legal substances any more...sigh. I mean, inhaling the propellants of spray paint and glue is legal but also in need of detox? LEGAL substances, not the cooked down meth FROM cold remedies. I think that was the point. The Phantom aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS Denver, Colorado, USA ------------- In response to Jerry Telle's comments to mine - > Schaefer wrote: > > Also I have heard there are cases of severe addiction to ephedrine ranging > from 10 to 100 pills per DAY of the substance - and that there is apparently > some new demand for the treatment of such addiction. Jerry Telle: > This is not a question at, but to you --what is different about this > addiction and any other amphetamine addiction? " New demand for the treatment > of such addiction " * Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city if you wish them to be published! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 It was written: > The Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites) > has reports of nearly 100 deaths of people who had > taken the herb, a stimulant that can quicken (news - > web sites) a person's heart rate and cause their blood > vessels to constrict. Pseudoephedrine has this exact same effect, yet no one is trying to get pseudoephedrine pulled off shelves. It's the constriction of blood vessels that is responsible for pseudoephedrine's decongestant effect on nasal passages; this effect reduces swelling in the nasal passages and reduces congestion. Krieger Graduate Assistant, Nutrition University of Florida Webmaster, WSU Strength and Conditioning http://www.wsu.edu/~strength Science Editor, Pure Power Magazine http://www.purepowermag.com * Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you wish them to be published! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Bridgette, I recognize you as a newer member of the list, or maybe you've been lurking for awhile before posting on a subject. I've been a member of this list almost since its inception, so maybe that gives me the " authority " to tell you that if you put up a subject that stirred the hornet's nest - congratulations! There is nothing so stimulating as to race to the computer each morning to open an ST Digest to find out what the list members think about some subject that has turned into a hot thread. Some of them get scientifically beyond my understanding, as people start writing out equations or switching into techno-talk. No matter; for those individuals, just like many of us as regards the topic of ephedra, it is a learning experience like no other. I have gained huge amounts of information by playing devil's advocate on this list. My father was a research scientist and as a child I was always encouraged to ask " Why? " I have found that question bothers a great many people because they realize that they have said something for which they have not necessarily conclusive proof, but at least a basis upon which they have formed their opinions. The last sentence is not true of the members of this list. " Why? " is not only acceptable, it is required! People base their opinions from their experiences in life. In the case of ephedra, this can range all the way from scientific research to the locker room in the gym and everything in between. All these opinions taken together pretty much point us all in the same direction as regards this compound. The conclusion I've drawn is that ephedra is not a harmless substance. More is not better. Some people tolerate it better than others. It needs to be used wisely, i.e. it's not someting you just pop every day for the rest of your life like an antioxidant. OTH, if used correctly by a person who is not overly sensitive, it is the best fat burning compound going. In fact, according to both Will Brink and Karlis Ullis, M.D. (a sports medicine physician in Santa , CA), it is really the only one that works. We have also learned that it won't work by itself; you have to also be on a calorie-restricted diet. As far as using it to clear a stuffy nose, it's ideal (Sudaphrene) and about the only thing that works well. Used as a stimulant, well that's a double-edge sword. If it's taken just before some athletic event in a small dose, that might be one thing. If it's taken on a continual basis to jolt your standard workouts or allow you to stay awake for 20 hours straight (assuming you are not in a war zone and your life may depend on the stims you take), then you need to back off and allow yourself to get more rest. If you have to schedule sleep into your Palm Pilot, so be it. Rosemary Vernon, Editor Dolfzine On-Line Fitness, Inc.® A Not-For-Profit Foundation www.dolfzine.com Marina del Rey, CA IronRoses@... http://www.chuckietechie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.