Re: Re: DAN Snippets (1)

[Guest guest]

Yes, I'd like it, if you can, Mandi. They don't test for antimony on the porphyrin test, do they?

Re: Re: DAN Snippets (1)

In a message dated 29/04/2007 00:59:49 GMT Standard Time, Ladyshrink111peoplepc writes:

Kirby said that the porphyrin results for kids with ASD or Pdd-nos differ significantly from the Asperger kids who have the same amount of metals as the control or NT kids. I can't quite understand this or maybe like Andy has said that for the majority of Aspie kids, antimony is the big issue and I don't think the porphyrin test measures that, does it?

>>I think thats what they found in the Nataf study - I must have the PDF somewhere if you haven't got it, I'll search it out

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Re: Re: DAN Snippets (1)> > > > > Kirby said that the porphyrin results for kids with ASD or Pdd-nos differ significantly from the Asperger kids who have the same amount of metals as the control or NT kids. I can't quite understand this or maybe like Andy has said that for the majority of Aspie kids, antimony is the big issue and I don't think the porphyrin test measures that, does it?> >>I think thats what they found in the Nataf study - I must have the PDF somewhere if you haven't got it, I'll search it out> > Mandi x>

[Guest guest]

Because Kirby and the other guy were debating mercury and vaccines they most likely were just comparing mercury levels between ASD kids and Asperger kids. Could be how I got confused and I think I remember that, thanks, Anita.

Re: Re: DAN Snippets (1)> > > > > Kirby said that the porphyrin results for kids with ASD or Pdd-nos differ significantly from the Asperger kids who have the same amount of metals as the control or NT kids. I can't quite understand this or maybe like Andy has said that for the majority of Aspie kids, antimony is the big issue and I don't think the porphyrin test measures that, does it?> >>I think thats what they found in the Nataf study - I must have the PDF somewhere if you haven't got it, I'll search it out> > Mandi x>

[Guest guest]

Our boy is through the roof with antimony. I wonder if it helps to put 3 layers of sheeting and mattress covers on the beds to prevent the antimony from coming through? Mind you how do you do that with furniture?

>>We have a link on the TA site called how to wrap a mattress - under safety and security I think - clikc on LINKS on the left had side of site

www.TreatingAutism.com

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Organic

mattresses at ABACA are relatively cheap (link on TA site) we have Tom’s on the

floor and so it cost no more than a normal cheap toddler bed, I think. Sara

Re:

Re: DAN Snippets (1)

In a

message dated 29/04/2007 09:12:05 GMT Standard Time, bbrowne123

writes:

Our

boy is through the roof with antimony. I wonder if it helps to

put 3 layers of sheeting and mattress covers on the beds to prevent

the antimony from coming through? Mind you how do you do that with

furniture?

>>We

have a link on the TA site called how to wrap a mattress - under safety and

security I think - clikc on LINKS on the left had side of site

www.TreatingAutism.com

Mandi x

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.0/775 - Release Date: 24/04/2007 17:43

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.0/775 - Release Date: 24/04/2007 17:43

[Guest guest]

Hi Bronwyn,

Been really interested in your last couple

of posts. It looks like you’re

expanding yoru horizons outside VB. Your post on play

having to be internally motivated was the first decent criticism I’ve

ever heard about VB. I don’t think it’s straight forward as I know

Darla’s reply is true, having spoken to her before about who is now

playing beautifully. It also taught Tom to play in the very beginning but then

his obsessions got the better of him/ us and he now NEVER plays appropriately

outside sessions. After reading your post and having it whizzing around my

head, I was talking to someone about RDI (RDI is something I’ve been

looking at for ages, I’ve always been a little bit convinced of its worth

but never convinced enough to go for it). Anyway I heard my second BIG

criticism of VB that really rang true. Someone said VB teaches language before it

teaches the NEED for communication so kids learn language and don’t use it.

This was never true when we were at the manding stage and, in fact, teaching manding

to Tom has been revolutionary. He still mands all the time and uses long phrases

typically and makes up his own too. However, he rarely tacts of his own accord and

never seems to use the intraverbals. I can’t see

skills outside manding being generalised at all and for the first time I’m

really questioning Tom’s whole life. What a childhood spent doing that stuff!!!!

Anyway, I just wanted to know if you were thinking along these lines too about VB.

Have you looked at RDI?

SARA

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.0/775 - Release Date: 24/04/2007 17:43

[Guest guest]

Hi

Nina, not butting in at all. I meant to change the title of this and also meant

to address it to everyone!!! Don’t get much sleep these days. That’s

my excuse. Anyway, I ALWAYS value your opinion.

isn't not having

this internal motivation and joint attention is what autism is?Cos

when you see a 2 or4 yr old of any other disability/language

disorder/no language ,the child still wants to interact and

communicate.

Yeah, I’m not saying I’m not confused too! It’s just that

for the first time I think I can see gaping holes in VB.

I think criticisms of aba/vb

like you have mentioned sidestep the

critical ques of first attempting to make speech sufficient to

address BASIC communication needs,(which many of us with kids at the

severe end of the spectrum would kill for), which is what you have

got now with fluent manding with your son.Does this include manding

for attention and information as well?

But I think there is so much communication that comes BEFORE speech that

I think VB misses this stage of development. I think manding for attention really

does address some of this and since we’ve started it I think I’ve seen

some of the most powerful changes in Tom since the beginning of ABA/VB. We’ve

gone beyond what they recommended at the conference and now click 300 a day. I think

non-verbal NT babies mand for attention almost all the time by crying, and

through pre-speech noises and also communicate all the time with smiles and eye

contact and gurgles of pleasure. We don’t teach much of this stuff with VB.

Even Lovas clinics recommend

using Greenspan type interactive

floorplay alongside aba/vb curriculums for beginner curriculums.

Iam sure prerequisites for RDI require certain amount?type?of

comprehension,(aimed at advanced learners?)and i am going to check

on the rdi list for this.

I didn’t know that. I don’t know anything about Greenspan or

floorplay. What sort of things do you do with Jack specifically? What should I be

doing with Tom?

SARA

In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , " Sass and Rem "

<Moroza-

@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi Bronwyn,

> Been really interested in your last couple of posts. It looks like

> you're expanding yoru horizons outside VB. Your post on play

having to

> be internally motivated was the first decent criticism I've ever

heard

> about VB. I don't think it's straight forward as I know Darla's

reply is

> true, having spoken to her before about who is now playing

> beautifully. It also taught Tom to play in the very beginning but

then

> his obsessions got the better of him/ us and he now NEVER plays

> appropriately outside sessions. After reading your post and having

it

> whizzing around my head, I was talking to someone about RDI (RDI is

> something I've been looking at for ages, I've always been a little

bit

> convinced of its worth but never convinced enough to go for it).

Anyway

> I heard my second BIG criticism of VB that really rang true.

Someone

> said VB teaches language before it teaches the NEED for

communication so

> kids learn language and don't use it. This was never true when we

were

> at the manding stage and, in fact, teaching manding to Tom has been

> revolutionary. He still mands all the time and uses long phrases

> typically and makes up his own too. However, he rarely tacts of

his own

> accord and never seems to use the intraverbals. I can't see skills

> outside manding being generalised at all and for the first time I'm

> really questioning Tom's whole life. What a childhood spent doing

that

> stuff!!!! Anyway, I just wanted to know if you were thinking along

these

> lines too about VB. Have you looked at RDI?

> SARA

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.0/775 - Release Date:

> 24/04/2007 17:43

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Just want to say that while floorplay is getting down to the childs level, there

is the danger that copying a childs actions and more specifically copying an

autistic child whose actions and behaviours are not controlled can be dangerous.

Autistic child, on the main, do not know about social and personal boundaries

and copying/minicing autistic childs behaviour should be disencouraged and for

that reason 'floorplay' should be carefully implemented. I have known of

teachers using floorplay sessions incorrectly and they ended up being critised

for leading children to initiate sexual behaviour. While I agree of an

understanding of autistic behaviour (looking at the world through autistic

childs eyes etc), I dont really follow the concept of copying an autistic child

when ideally for the childs long term advantage - autistic children should fit

into our world and we should not fit into theirs. IMHO to work towards this

goal, NET and RDI would better fill defectives.

Bridget

---- Lara wrote:

> Hi Sara

>

> just joining in here! floorplay is where you get down to the childs

> levla and start copying there actions to get eye contact and initiate

> play together, eg: Tom lies a certain way and you copy him he shuts

> his eyes you do the same etc. That is the basics of it, having met

> Tom though I think it may be too basic as he appeared simular to

> , loads of info on the net as usual. It would have been great

> for edward age 18 months + if I knew about it. But then I may of not

> done bio med if I had been really clued up on one practice. god

> forbid,

>

> Lara x

>

>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Bronwyn,

> > > Been really interested in your last couple of posts. It looks like

> > > you're expanding yoru horizons outside VB. Your post on play

> > having to

> > > be internally motivated was the first decent criticism I've ever

> > heard

> > > about VB. I don't think it's straight forward as I know Darla's

> > reply is

> > > true, having spoken to her before about who is now playing

> > > beautifully. It also taught Tom to play in the very beginning but

> > then

> > > his obsessions got the better of him/ us and he now NEVER plays

> > > appropriately outside sessions. After reading your post and

> having

> > it

> > > whizzing around my head, I was talking to someone about RDI (RDI

> is

> > > something I've been looking at for ages, I've always been a

> little

> > bit

> > > convinced of its worth but never convinced enough to go for it).

> > Anyway

> > > I heard my second BIG criticism of VB that really rang true.

> > Someone

> > > said VB teaches language before it teaches the NEED for

> > communication so

> > > kids learn language and don't use it. This was never true when we

> > were

> > > at the manding stage and, in fact, teaching manding to Tom has

> been

> > > revolutionary. He still mands all the time and uses long phrases

> > > typically and makes up his own too. However, he rarely tacts of

> > his own

> > > accord and never seems to use the intraverbals. I can't see skills

> > > outside manding being generalised at all and for the first time

> I'm

> > > really questioning Tom's whole life. What a childhood spent doing

> > that

> > > stuff!!!! Anyway, I just wanted to know if you were thinking

> along

> > these

> > > lines too about VB. Have you looked at RDI?

> > > SARA

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.0/775 - Release Date:

> > > 24/04/2007 17:43

> > >

> >

>

>