Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Does anyone else feel a little burdened with the moniker " natural " ? I certainly don't mean to imply I could ever even countenance the idea of making an unnatural perfume. I mean, for example, I happen to like the term " botanical " perfume, a term in wide use I take it outside the US. I worry though that if I don't use the word " natural " in the title for my products, many Americans either won't believe it or won't get it (what does botanical mean again?). I end up with " natural botanical perfume " which of course is somewhat redundant and utterly unlikable. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Does anyone else feel a little burdened with the moniker " natural " ? I certainly don't mean to imply I could ever even countenance the idea of making an unnatural perfume. I mean, for example, I happen to like the term " botanical " perfume, a term in wide use I take it outside the US. I worry though that if I don't use the word " natural " in the title for my products, many Americans either won't believe it or won't get it (what does botanical mean again?). I end up with " natural botanical perfume " which of course is somewhat redundant and utterly unlikable. Thoughts? Apparently, the word " natural " means a lot of different things to different people. This controversy is currently raging on another forum I'm a member of. I don't think the general public even knows what it means, period. Only the purists think in terms of purely natural. To everyone else, this can mean almost anything. :0( - Sonsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 >I > certainly don't mean to imply I could ever even countenance the idea > of making an unnatural perfume. I mean, for example, I happen to like > the term " botanical " perfume, a term in wide use I take it outside the > US. I worry though that if I don't use the word " natural " in the title > for my products, many Americans either won't believe it or won't get > it (what does botanical mean again?). > > Thoughts? > I agree and it is unfortunate that it is such a fad word right now. It has lost it's meaning because the word natural is used in such inappropriate ways. I feel the need to say " all natural " to counter the products that are labeled as natural just because they have a natural ingredient or two. I think that if you are selling online you need the word natural for searchability, but I think that botanical is clear enough when it comes to labeling. People who are looking for natural perfume likely know what botanical means, and those who aren't looking for natural perfume may very well be intrigued by the word. ha. ~amy~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Does anyone else feel a little burdened with the moniker " natural " ? I certainly don't mean to imply I could ever even countenance the idea of making an unnatural perfume. I mean, for example, I happen to like the term " botanical " perfume, a term in wide use I take it outside the US. I worry though that if I don't use the word " natural " in the title for my products, many Americans either won't believe it or won't get it (what does botanical mean again?). I end up with " natural botanical perfume " which of course is somewhat redundant and utterly unlikable. Thoughts? The word " natural " is a bit overused and I believe often abused. However, the term " botanical " might not be entirely correct for some NP'ers, if they use any sort of animal essence at all, and I know you are rather fond of ambergris Adam. Botanical would mean strictly plant-based products. And there are plenty of NP'ers out there that use strictly plant-based essences for one reason or another, so in their instance calling their products Botanical Perfumes would be correct. I've considered the term Botanical myself, because I'm a little tired of the word " natural " , but I do use animal products(at least a couple anyway), so I'm not completely comfortable with the term as I feel it is not accurate about my perfumery practice and ingredients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 " Does anyone else feel a little burdened with the moniker " natural " ? Adam, interesting contemplation. Here in South Africa I have found that the tern " Natural " immediately makes the general public think - aromatherapy blends and Botanical as mentions not always applicable. I recently discovered that there is another Natural Perfumer here, Tammy Frazer, although she does not label herself as such, rather she puts herself in the category of Haute Parfumerie; exclusive perfumes made with natural ingredients. She emphasizes the exclusive element of her perfumes both through her marketing and packaging and then that is natural and specially sourced. She sells her perfumes through Rojo Dove Haute Parfumerie at the Urban Retreat, Harrods. http://harrods.urbanretreat.co.uk/default.aspx?PageID=160#FRAZERPARFUM http://harrods.urbanretreat.co.uk/default.aspx?PageId=136 Perhaps our emphasis should be on the exclusive element too, since natural essences are very precious and unique by their very nature, thus exclusive, after all? Another interesting story … http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/1443145.stm Sophia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone else feel a little burdened with the moniker " natural " ? I > certainly don't mean to imply I could ever even countenance the idea > of making an unnatural perfume. I mean, for example, I happen to like > the term " botanical " perfume, a term in wide use I take it outside the > US. I worry though that if I don't use the word " natural " in the title > for my products, many Americans either won't believe it or won't get > it (what does botanical mean again?). I end up with " natural botanical > perfume " which of course is somewhat redundant and utterly unlikable. > > Thoughts? > It's a tough one isn't it? What other words might we use? I can't think of any which succinctly and truthfully say it as well as 'natural'. hmmmmm shall sleep on it Margi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 > I know you are rather fond of ambergris Adam. I use such a tiny amount that its use doesn't detract from the fact that my perfumes are 99% botanical. Just because I use ambergris would definitely not prevent me from using the word " botanical. " Botanical as opposed to chemical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 1:50 AM, Shea wrote: > > > I know you are rather fond of ambergris Adam. > > I use such a tiny amount that its use doesn't detract from > the fact > that my perfumes are 99% botanical. Just because I use > ambergris would > definitely not prevent me from using the word " botanical. " > Botanical > as opposed to chemical. > >Hi Adam - This is exactly what I was going to write. I think botanical conveys the sense of the perfume. Elise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 " I use such a tiny amount that its use doesn't detract from the fact that my perfumes are 99% botanical. " To a vegan that would make a difference. Even beeswax is not vegan. The one company that sells my perfume stipulates whether vegan or not. Most of the general public thinks of botanical as plant based only. Sophia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Apparently, the word " natural " means a lot of different things to different people. This controversy is currently raging on another forum I'm a member of. I don't think the general public even knows what it means, period. Only the purists think in terms of purely natural. To everyone else, this can mean almost anything. :0( - Sonsa P.S. Speaking of the purists, an absolute that was made with a solvent would not be considered " natural " and/or the use of perfumer's alcohol that contains chemicals of any kind. So, when you use the word " natural " you need to keep this in mind as well. Technically, petroleum is " natural " because it is derived from nature, but we all know that synthetic fragrance made from it is not considered natural. This term/word is under the gun right now from many different sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Adam Gottschalk wrote: > > > >> I know you are rather fond of ambergris Adam. >> > > I use such a tiny amount that its use doesn't detract from the fact > that my perfumes are 99% botanical. Just because I use ambergris would > definitely not prevent me from using the word " botanical. " Botanical > as opposed to chemical. > I have to smile at so much splitting of hairs. Adam, everyone - you may not be aware the NPA has " defined " natural fragrances - and they allow a percentage of synthetics. I hear they will eventually lower the synth percentage, but I just don't understand their reasoning overall. The Guild issued a Position Paper on the definition over a year ago http://www.naturalperfumers.com/NPG-position-paper-definition.pdf and I'm sticking by that. People *do* know and look for - within their own definition - what is natural. The stats for the Guild website and my website show that about 90% are googling or binging " natural perfume " . Botanical is mentioned on the Guild site as being a viable term, but frankly, I'm a bit sick of it. Don't know why, honestly, but it is beginning to rankle me, and this is from somebody with a degree in economic botany, LOL. It doesn't convey what I believe is as Sophia defined earlier, the " haute " aspects of what we create. I just call myself a perfumer when introduced to people, and add simply " I only use natural aromatics, no synthetics " . They get it immediately. However, in case the legal definition of natural is eventually arrived at by the government, and we have problems with the Feds, I also registered the Botanical Perfumers Guild <http://botanicalperfumers.com>. Such is life. I had to. Hopefully, we can stick with natural. We skate and dance around the perceptions and regulations, and in the end, we may all be Outlaw Perfumers <http://outlawperfumers.com> ;-) -- Anya http://AnyasGarden.com http://NaturalPerfumers.com http://twitter.com/anyasgarden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 > It doesn't convey what I believe is as Sophia defined earlier, the > " haute " aspects of what we create. I just call myself a perfumer when > introduced to people, and add simply " I only use natural aromatics, no > synthetics " . They get it immediately.... > We skate and dance around the perceptions and regulations, and in the > end, we may all be Outlaw Perfumers <http://outlawperfumers.com> ;-) Thanks Anya. I like being an Outlaw Perfumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Adam Gottschalk wrote: > Does anyone else feel a little burdened with the moniker " natural " ? I > certainly don't mean to imply I could ever even countenance the idea > of making an unnatural perfume. I mean, for example, I happen to like > the term " botanical " perfume, a term in wide use I take it outside the > US. I worry though that if I don't use the word " natural " in the title > for my products, many Americans either won't believe it or won't get > it (what does botanical mean again?). I end up with " natural botanical > perfume " which of course is somewhat redundant and utterly unlikable. > > Thoughts? Hi Adam, Folks.... I like the term botanical.....Natural is a term that seems to me to have been bludgeoned to death.... Being an EO and Essence person for a long time, when I see the term natural applied to a product is when my disbelief set of mind pops up... I admit to being cynical...I'm also into gemology somewhat, and the term natural is fooled with even more, if that's possible, in that jargon... I have used the phrase " Botanical Perfume by Bourbonais " (the 's' is silent)...which has a nice ring to it...with friends...... Then again, most of them think fooling with the Essences is odd, anyway...<G>... I also like the term, and concept, of artisan... -- W. Bourbonais L'Hermite Aromatique A.J.P. (GIA) http://www.facebook.com/Le.Hermite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 How's this for confusion: I just read on one of the " naturals " perfume cartons that they use 100% essential oils infused with botanicals!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 > > Does anyone else feel a little burdened with the moniker " natural " ? I > certainly don't mean to imply I could ever even countenance the idea > of making an unnatural perfume. I mean, for example, I happen to like > the term " botanical " perfume, a term in wide use I take it outside the > US. I worry though that if I don't use the word " natural " in the title > for my products, many Americans either won't believe it or won't get > it (what does botanical mean again?). I end up with " natural botanical > perfume " which of course is somewhat redundant and utterly unlikable. Oh, I so dislike the word 'natural' and all the politics that surround it. Personally, I try to make my products 'sustainable' which I think is important for the health of the earth. Since my products (talking skin care/not perfume) contain botanicals I typically refer to them as botanically based products rather than 'natural'. If someone asks me if they are natural, I generally say yes since I don't want to get into a lengthy conversation about how that term is meaningless. http://www.sagescript.com Microbiology, Distillates, Botanical Skin Care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 > > Hi Adam, Folks.... > > I like the term botanical.....Natural is a term that seems to me to > have been bludgeoned to death.... > > Being an EO and Essence person for a long time, when I see the term > natural applied to a product is when my disbelief set of mind pops > up... > > I also like the term, and concept, of artisan... > > -- > W. Bourbonais I think we really are in a bit of a quandry at this point in time. As is always the case when the big corporations and others want to jump on for the free ride after others have paved the way with honesty and integrity. " Botanical " is also being misused. The most honest term I can think of is " from nature " . But I feel that it needs something more added so that it denotes that the stuff is un-fiddled-with, because I can still see the synth folks bending that term as well. How do we find the term that says what it needs to say, and is unbendable - ironclad? Tough question. Words can always be bent. I think I might have mentioned this before, but it's a real eye opener to learn what the FDA means by " natural flavor " . It doesn't mean that it came from the actual item. When, for expample, something says " contains natural raspberry flavor " , it means that it contains a chemical that is designed to taste " like " real (hence " natural " ) raspberries. Or when a label just says " natural flavors " - it means that it has any number of flavor chemicals added, and that those chemicals are designed to taste " like " the real thing. And they're not natural by our definition. They're the chemicals created by the flavor industry. What's in a name, indeed.... Quite the puzzle. Andrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Botanical has always one of my favorite descriptors ....good call. Katlyn Breene Mermade Magickal Arts (since 1984) katmermade@... http://www.mermadearts.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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