The Placebo and Rumpelstiltskin Effect

[Guest guest]

While we are busy examining possible reasons for the success behind some

apparently illogical or scientifically unsubstantiated, it is relevant to

read through an excerpt on the placebo effect from an old textbook that I

came across again on my shelves.

---------------------

The Placebo and Rumpelstiltskin Effect

Adam " Powers of Mind " 1975

When a drug company wants to test a new pill at a certain stage, it uses a

double-blind procedure, new drug vs. placebo. Confusing, because sometimes

the placebo group improves, too.

A team of researchers working on high blood pressure ran into this. They

tested the medication and placebos with four groups of subjects; down went

the blood pressure in all four groups. Placebos even work specifically. When

asthma sufferers were given a new drug, their bronchial dilation (their ease

of breathing) was twice as great when they were told that the pill would open

them up as when they were told the opposite.

Another experimenter gave his subjects a stomach pill. There wasn't anything

in it except something magnetic to help the measurement. The stomach activity

of the subjects increased when they were told that's what it did, decreased

when they were told that's what it did, and stayed the same when they were

told it had no effect.

Not all symptoms are mental, and placebos don't work better than drugs, but

how can a placebo work at all? This is a mindbody debate that goes back a

long way. Franz Anton Mesmer from whom comes our word " mesmerized " - was an

18th century physician who used to cure with techniques we now call hypnotic

induction. He named his technique " animal magnetism " because he used magnets

in his first experiments. Louis XVI was so interested lie appointed a Royal

Commission to investigate, headed by the astronomer Bailly. It also included

Lavoisier, the chemist, Dr. Guillotin and lin. The Bailly

Commission decided that mesmerism worked due not to magnetism but to

imagination. " Imagination without magnetism can produce convulsions, " said

the Bailly Report. " Magnetism without imagination has no effect at all. "

(This is from " Rapport des Commissaires par le Roi de l'Examen du Magnetisme

Animal " , J. A. Bailly, Imprimerie Royale, 1784.)

A young physician who is both psychiatrist and anthropologist, Fuller Torrey,

wrote a comparison between witch doctors and psychiatrists. People who went

to see each felt better immediately because of the certainty exuded by the

authority figure, the diplo ma on the wall, or the proper headdress, bones

rattles, and, finally, because the authority in each case gave the condition

a name.

You have a curse from your dead mother-in-law, or you have a bug that's been

going around. Torrey called it the Rumpelstiltskin effect. Rumpelstiltskin,

you remember, was the dwarf who helped the miller's daughter weave the flax

into gold and claimed her first-born child after she was queen. The miller's

daughter wanted to renege, and the dwarf said, you don't even know my name.

If she could learn his name by midnight of the third day, she could keep the

kid. At midnight the third day there is a scene where the queen says archly,

" Is your name ? ? Rumpelstiltskin? " And poor Rumpelstiltskin goes

POP! Vaporizes. Disappears. If you can give it a name, it will disappear.

Harvard psychologists tested people at a clinic. The people felt much better

after they'd been to the clinic. More tests - the people in the waiting room.

They felt better, too. Finally, the people who hadn't even come to the clinic

yet, but had made an appointment. They felt better already.

No one doubts the effect of mind on body to some extent, and the extent

varies with the believer. Bernard Shaw said he considered Lourdes a

blasphemous place because they kept there all the crutches and wheelchairs of

the people who walked away, but among these items was not one wooden leg, one

glass eye, or one toupee.

Alsop said, " There are mysteries, above all the mystery of the

relationship of mind and body, that will never be explained, not by the most

brilliant doctors, the wisest of scientists or philosophers. "

There is a reason we are so sketchy on minds, and that is that we perceive

the world through whatever paradigm we live in, and our present paradigm is

sketchy when it comes to " mind. " ........

-----------------

Dr Mel C Siff

Denver, USA

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Supertraining/

[Guest guest]

Hi Mel,

Interesting email. The dichotomy of body mind seems be becoming under

considerable challenge, for example Damasio's somato marker theory.

There is also proponents such as Wilham Reich and Lowen, who felt

that the physical state was a direct representation of the psychological

state. I was wondering if anyone knew of any evident that supported the

theory of the body state reflecting the mental state or if there was a way

that such a research project could be constructed?

Silverman

Wellington

New Zealand

---------

Mel Siff wrote:

>While we are busy examining possible reasons for the success behind some

>apparently illogical or scientifically unsubstantiated, it is relevant to

>read through an excerpt on the placebo effect from an old textbook that I

>came across again on my shelves.

>

>---------------------

>

>The Placebo and Rumpelstiltskin Effect

>

>Adam " Powers of Mind " 1975

>

>When a drug company wants to test a new pill at a certain stage, it uses a

>double-blind procedure, new drug vs. placebo. Confusing, because sometimes

>the placebo group improves, too.

>

>A team of researchers working on high blood pressure ran into this. They

>tested the medication and placebos with four groups of subjects; down went

>the blood pressure in all four groups. Placebos even work specifically.

When

>asthma sufferers were given a new drug, their bronchial dilation (their

ease

>of breathing) was twice as great when they were told that the pill would

open

>them up as when they were told the opposite.

>

>Another experimenter gave his subjects a stomach pill. There wasn't

anything

>in it except something magnetic to help the measurement. The stomach

activity

>of the subjects increased when they were told that's what it did, decreased

>when they were told that's what it did, and stayed the same when they were

>told it had no effect.

>

>Not all symptoms are mental, and placebos don't work better than drugs, but

>how can a placebo work at all? This is a mindbody debate that goes back a

>long way. Franz Anton Mesmer from whom comes our word " mesmerized " - was an

>18th century physician who used to cure with techniques we now call

hypnotic

>induction. He named his technique " animal magnetism " because he used

magnets

>in his first experiments. Louis XVI was so interested lie appointed a Royal

>Commission to investigate, headed by the astronomer Bailly. It also

included

>Lavoisier, the chemist, Dr. Guillotin and lin. The Bailly

>Commission decided that mesmerism worked due not to magnetism but to

>imagination. " Imagination without magnetism can produce convulsions, " said

>the Bailly Report. " Magnetism without imagination has no effect at all. "

>(This is from " Rapport des Commissaires par le Roi de l'Examen du

Magnetisme

>Animal " , J. A. Bailly, Imprimerie Royale, 1784.)

>

>A young physician who is both psychiatrist and anthropologist, Fuller

Torrey,

>wrote a comparison between witch doctors and psychiatrists. People who went

>to see each felt better immediately because of the certainty exuded by the

>authority figure, the diplo ma on the wall, or the proper headdress, bones

>rattles, and, finally, because the authority in each case gave the

condition

>a name.

>

>You have a curse from your dead mother-in-law, or you have a bug that's

been

>going around. Torrey called it the Rumpelstiltskin effect.

Rumpelstiltskin,

>you remember, was the dwarf who helped the miller's daughter weave the flax

>into gold and claimed her first-born child after she was queen. The

miller's

>daughter wanted to renege, and the dwarf said, you don't even know my name.

>If she could learn his name by midnight of the third day, she could keep

the

>kid. At midnight the third day there is a scene where the queen says

archly,

> " Is your name ? ? Rumpelstiltskin? " And poor Rumpelstiltskin

goes

>POP! Vaporizes. Disappears. If you can give it a name, it will disappear.

>

>Harvard psychologists tested people at a clinic. The people felt much

better

>after they'd been to the clinic. More tests - the people in the waiting

room.

>They felt better, too. Finally, the people who hadn't even come to the

clinic

>yet, but had made an appointment. They felt better already.

>

>No one doubts the effect of mind on body to some extent, and the extent

>varies with the believer. Bernard Shaw said he considered Lourdes a

>blasphemous place because they kept there all the crutches and wheelchairs

of

>the people who walked away, but among these items was not one wooden leg,

one

>glass eye, or one toupee.

>

> Alsop said, " There are mysteries, above all the mystery of the

>relationship of mind and body, that will never be explained, not by the

most

>brilliant doctors, the wisest of scientists or philosophers. "

>

>There is a reason we are so sketchy on minds, and that is that we perceive

>the world through whatever paradigm we live in, and our present paradigm is

>sketchy when it comes to " mind. " ........

>

>-----------------

>

>Dr Mel C Siff

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