Bernstein and Feedforward

[Guest guest]

BERNSTEINIANA: INNER SPACE AND IMAGE OF THE DESIRED FUTURE

<<ideally flat creatures (real 2-Ds!) who lived on the surface of a very still

pond. If a

man would have walked into that pond they would have no way of perceiving

him>>

Telle:

not true--we perceive, are aware of much we dont attend to ! though the

Russian to ?? Translation may have missed this.

<< as such or describing him in their own language >>

telle

theres the problem--without symbolic representation(language)one

cant manipulate, pay concious attention to perceptions. in other words we can

be aware of but not conciously attend to nonsymbolized thought---

<<as different from their own image. They, most likely, would report a sudden

appearance

of a brand new small 'two-dee'' just next to the shore, then of the second one!

Then, as the

man advances, these two move(MOVE?) toward the center of the pond, growing in

size and coming closer to each other until they become one, and a huge one, at

that! >>

telle--

I've missed the metaphor here! does the original 2 d remain in

attention then a new one formed etc

<<.... I still feel that he was a man walking into the still pond of theoretical

neurology rather than the brightest among its 2-D geniuses.>>

(FOR SURE telle)-

<< He turned the ideally flat one-line schematics of the stimulus-response, or

reflex arc

theory of reactivity into that of activity based on the sensory corrections

principle and the reflex ring.>>

telle --

or as you say later, " feeds forward " in time.

<<We shall look at the details later, but now I ask you to visualize a

string stretched on a flat surface (stimulus-response). If we bend that

string, feeding the response back as a new stimulus, the string will look as a

ring,

but only if it lies on a flat surface. In our 3-D world, a spiral may appear

to you as a flat ring, if you look at it along its central axis. But in

reality each new turn of that spiral starts further along the axis than the

previous turn.

Now, that spiral is not just 3-D - it can be sculpted into a wealth of shapes

and forms. Bernstein did exactly that: he made the transformation visible,

and the 2-D representations of larger dimensionalities became what they

indeed were, flat projections of a real object with at least three axes...>>

telle--

As much as axis aid in definition don't they still bind reality?, or

is axis used as much as metaphor as spatial orientation ?---

<< The cornerstone of Bernsteiniana, for me, is his idea that action at

present is guided, if not determined, by the image of the desired feature >>

Telle--

As sure as the nite follows day !! How else could it be--if we weren't

guided by the near future how would we know what to do in it? The projected

future is structured largely(%?) by the past--we act in accordance with what

we expect to happen. And what we expect to happen is formed by past

similarities--real or imaginary (autogenic) to the present--. We project

predictions and appropriate actions into the future and act accordingly. You

might even consider it a reflex/effect--but a reflex/effect to a projected

cause.

I believe, as you seem to also, that one function of our awareness/action

orientation--is in the immediate future (~ 50?-100 ms?). For me this

immediate future awareness is mostly a non concious(not attended to)

intentional, moment to moment, non choice, non symbolized function that

predicts what is about to happen and what we are going to do about it. I

believe there is an experiential flash of what we are about to do right

before we do it. ,

Our attention defined as concious awareness/recognition of the present --is

slightly in the past ~100-250 ms?----.

Mel Siff:

[Cybernetics, as is pointed out here is concerned with regulation

of biological systems via the use of " feedback " . Note also that I have

written frequently about the importance of " feedforward " and " feedback "

processes in sporting self-regulation (see Ch 1 and p420 of " Supertraining " 2000

(FEED FORWARDâ€* IS A GREAT DISCRIPTOR -- telle). In this context,

Bernstein's " image of the desired feature " would also refer to events which

implicate

feedforward, perception and human virtual reality. ]

<<..... " Each motor task finds for itself, depending upon its contents and

semantic

structure, a certain level (in other words, a certain sensory synthesis) which,

by

the features and the composition of afferentations forming it, as well as by the

principle of their synthetic integration, is the most adequate for the needed

solution of

this task. This level is defined as the leading one for a given movement in

regard to carrying out the most significant decisive sensory corrections and

to performing the re-codings needed for it " (Ibid., p34)>>

Mel Siff:

[Remember what I have written about the non-deterministic opportunistic

nature of any movement? I noted that the same external movement does not

necessarily involve the same internal muscular or neuromuscular strategies

for stabilising or moving any part of the body. Here Bernstein confirms the

optimising, opportunistic nature of the motor action. This information has

important implications for those who still proclaim the existence of precise,

idealised postures, muscle actions, spinal stabilising rules and other highly

deterministic unique patterns of motor action. ]

<< Far from the very notion of a mechanical hierarchy based on localization

of function, Bernstein introduced the idea of the physiological motor field and

its relationship with our external, geometrical space. Unlike the visual

field, the motor field cannot be fully quantified. Metrics of kinematic

parameters, the topography of interim positions, forces, and changes, have to

be translated into the topology of images before the attainability of the

desired future is recognized and a purposeful movement can be constructed and

carried out ..>>

Telle--

nicely put! I'm assuming that among the massive implications of the

above that this “optimizing, opportunistic nature of the motor actionâ€* is

where the opportunity for and efficacy of improved patterns is expressedâ€*?--

Mel Siff:

[Note carefully what Bernstein stated: " the motor field cannot be fully

quantified " , yet there are those who believe that simple palpation,

balancing, spinal alignment and other simple tests can quantify why someone

" needs readjustment " or " correction " . ]

telle--

I take it that your not referring to a battery of indices(if indeed

there are any), which when interrelated would indicate probability and

direction?

<<Bernstein the Visionary gave us the poetry of how any 2-D projection

differs from the living reality of our motor field. Geometry of its co-ordinate

grid, unlike that of Euclid and Descartes, is not rectilinear, and its

surface sways " like a cobweb in the wind " (The Co-ordination and Regulation

of Movements. Pergamon Press, 1967. p.48). It is the needed result,

recognized as a goal, that drives and sculpts the (telle--REAL TIME AND

FUTURE-FEED FORWARD?)movement at any given

moment in time while this movement is currently formed.

Telle--

Right, right and right and I'm sure the imminent movement will flash

mentally before the physical movement! Rather like a system arming function?

Mel Siff:

[Note that Bernstein is stressing that direct, linear relationships

between motor processes do not take place in the body, but that the perceived or

desired output or result determines the flow of events leading to the motor

action. Change the goal or one's perception of that goal and you change the

way in which the body solves that problem. ]

(telle)--EXCELLENT

<< At the core of Bernstein's unique vision is the enchantedness of a child who

smiles, in recognition, at a spider's web floating and undulating in the

wind, and not just the mastery of a good mathematician, or proficiency of an

upgraded computer, in describing that surface as a quantitative entity... >>

telle--

" without this playing with fantasy no creative work has ever come to

birth. The debt we owe to the play of the imagination is incalcualable. "

Carl Jung

telle--

Einstein said much the same thing crediting his accomplishments to his

'retarded development' resulting in a heightened imagination system.(cant

find the reference)

<<Do you believe that his vision holds true only for motor control and not for

broader creative expressions of Self-speech, association, and cognition? >>

telle--

It is all of everything--anything else is just the largely random

activity of the newborn.

Jerry Telle

Lakewood Colorado USA

jrtelle@...