OCD or TICS?????

May 22, 2002

DEAR DR CHANSKY:

I AM READING YOUR BOOK ON FREEING YOUR CHILD FROM OCD. I HAVE A 9 YR OLD WITH

TS/OCD/ADHD. HE HAS HAD DIFFERENT TICS COME AND GO ALL HIS LIFE. HE HAS

SUPERSTITION ANXIETY ABOUT ODD NUMBERS,ESPECIALLY '3'. FOR OVER 2 YEARS, IF HE

SEES A '3' HE WILL BLOW AND SPIT (OUT THE EVIL) SO MANY TIMES UNTIL THE 3 IS

GONE.SCHOOL HAS BEEN TOUGH. EVEN THOUGH HE IS BRIGHT, THIS PRESENTS A MAJOR

LEARNING DISABILITY. LATELY, MORE OCD HANGUPS. WHEN HE LOOKS AT CERTAIN SKIN

COLORS ON TV OR IN PERSON (HE SPITS AND BLOWS BECAUSE IT MAKES HIM FEEL BAD)

NOW, HE CAN'T LOOK AT HIS FATHER WITHOUT SPITTING LOTS BECAUSE HIS FATHER'S

HAIRY SKIN. HIS TEACHERS THINKS THIS IS TOO BIZAARE TO BE OCD, THAT HE IS

PROBABLY JUST BEING MANUPULATIVE. HIS TEACHER (A SPECIAL RESOURCE TEACHER IN A

MULTI-DISABLITY UNIT) BELIEVES HE IS SMART AND " PULLING THE WOOL OVER OUR EYES "

AND MOST OF HIS BEHAVIOR CAN BE MODIFIED BY REINFORCING RULES. SHE IS GOING TO

TAKE HIM TO DINNER THIS SUMMER IF HE EARNS IT BY NOT SPITTING WHEN SEEING HIS

FATHER FOR A MONTH. WELL, NOW HE WANTS TO PLEASE HER AND WANTS TO GO TO THE

SPECIAL DINNER, BUT NOW HE IS SPITTING MORE AND MORE AT EVERYONE ELSE! I DON'T

KNOW IF IT IS A TIC OR OCD. I HAVE ASKED HIM TO TRY AND SUBSTITUTE IT WITH

SOMETHING MORE SUITABLE, BUT HE SAYS HE CAN'T, NOTHING ELSE HELPS THAT FEELING

TO GO AWAY. ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

ALSO, HE CAN NOT STAND TO GO TO THE BATHROOM. HE WILL PUT OFF URINATING OR

DEFECATING UNTIL HE GOES IN HIS PANTS. HE DOES THIS AT SCHOOL AND AT HOME. HE

WILL SPIT AND BLOW AND GAG WHILE GOING TO RESTROOM ANYWHERE. HE SCREAMS HE HATES

IT (THE SOUND, THE COLOR, THE SMELL..) HE IS EVEN SET OFF (BLOWING AND SPITTING)

WHEN HE PASSES GAS. HIS TEACHER BELIEVES WE SHOULD JUST TREAT THIS AS A BEHAVIOR

PROBLEM AND DISIPLINE ACCORDINGLY. WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST FOR THIS UNORTHODOX

OCD? HOW CAN YOU TELL WHETHER IT IS COMPULSIONS OR TICS? HE IS ON CLONDINE,

RISPERDAL, LUVOX (125MG) AND CONCERTA. ((DOES STIMULANTS AGGRAVATE OCD??))

-CONFUSED AND FRUSTRATED, CHERYL

---------------------------------

May 23, 2002

I am not a professional, but just wanted to say that this teacher's

attitude disturbs me, she says your son is being manipulative and

that you should discipline him as if it is a misbehavior problem.

Whether it is a tic or an ocd behavior, it is too severe and

upsetting to be just misbehavior. What child would want to blow and

spit so frequently, to the point of being disruptive and (I am

assuming) embarrassed in school? What 9 yr old child would want to

wait to go to the bathroom so long that he goes in his pants-that is

not misbehavior or manipulation. Smoking in the bathroom is

misbehavior, calling names and bullying is misbehavior, reading a

bad magazine under your textbook is misbehavior etc.

I'd say it only takes being a compassionate and understanding person

to see this is not primarily a discipline problem, whether one is a

resource, special ed teacher, etc or not. (Just my opinion-maybe the

doctor has a more experienced perspective).

Does the person who thinks he is being manipulative have children of

her own?

The teachers think behavior that is TOO bizarre, is just a sign of

manipulation? So then if the behavior is much milder, I suppose

they could accept that it is OCD? I think if these teachers could

go through a day or two of what our children go through, and realize

the courage it takes to face everyday life sometimes, they would be

more understanding. Too bad God can't somehow arrange that lesson

for them.

Lately, though my 8th gr. daughter is much improved, to the point of

seeming not to have OCD sometimes-she is now in a little flare due

to a recent illness. It tends to have me thinking or realizing,

that, in fact, a major part of her problems come from dealing with

the chronic misperceptions of other people. Without that added

burden, our kids would probably find life to be a lot more pleasant,

despite their OCD or tics etc. But unfortunately, that is a burden

they will have to learn to deal with as well, and in the long run

will make them stronger and more compassionate. I tell her she is

probably just going to have to learn to ignore what others think, if

they are not open to understanding.

nancy grace

>

> DEAR DR CHANSKY:

>

> I AM READING YOUR BOOK ON FREEING YOUR CHILD FROM OCD. I HAVE A 9

YR OLD WITH TS/OCD/ADHD. HE HAS HAD DIFFERENT TICS COME AND GO ALL

HIS LIFE. HE HAS SUPERSTITION ANXIETY ABOUT ODD

NUMBERS,ESPECIALLY '3'. FOR OVER 2 YEARS, IF HE SEES A '3' HE WILL

BLOW AND SPIT (OUT THE EVIL) SO MANY TIMES UNTIL THE 3 IS

GONE.SCHOOL HAS BEEN TOUGH. EVEN THOUGH HE IS BRIGHT, THIS PRESENTS

A MAJOR LEARNING DISABILITY. LATELY, MORE OCD HANGUPS. WHEN HE LOOKS

AT CERTAIN SKIN COLORS ON TV OR IN PERSON (HE SPITS AND BLOWS

BECAUSE IT MAKES HIM FEEL BAD) NOW, HE CAN'T LOOK AT HIS FATHER

WITHOUT SPITTING LOTS BECAUSE HIS FATHER'S HAIRY SKIN. HIS TEACHERS

THINKS THIS IS TOO BIZAARE TO BE OCD, THAT HE IS PROBABLY JUST BEING

MANUPULATIVE. HIS TEACHER (A SPECIAL RESOURCE TEACHER IN A MULTI-

DISABLITY UNIT) BELIEVES HE IS SMART AND " PULLING THE WOOL OVER OUR

EYES " AND MOST OF HIS BEHAVIOR CAN BE MODIFIED BY REINFORCING

RULES. SHE IS GOING TO TAKE HIM TO DINNER THIS SUMMER IF HE EARNS

IT BY NOT SPITTING WHEN SEEING HIS FATHER FOR A MONTH. WELL, NOW HE

WANTS TO PLEASE HER AND WANTS TO GO TO THE SPECIAL DINNER, BUT NOW

HE IS SPITTING MORE AND MORE AT EVERYONE ELSE! I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS

A TIC OR OCD. I HAVE ASKED HIM TO TRY AND SUBSTITUTE IT WITH

SOMETHING MORE SUITABLE, BUT HE SAYS HE CAN'T, NOTHING ELSE HELPS

THAT FEELING TO GO AWAY. ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY

APPRECIATED.

>

> ALSO, HE CAN NOT STAND TO GO TO THE BATHROOM. HE WILL PUT OFF

URINATING OR DEFECATING UNTIL HE GOES IN HIS PANTS. HE DOES THIS AT

SCHOOL AND AT HOME. HE WILL SPIT AND BLOW AND GAG WHILE GOING TO

RESTROOM ANYWHERE. HE SCREAMS HE HATES IT (THE SOUND, THE COLOR, THE

SMELL..) HE IS EVEN SET OFF (BLOWING AND SPITTING) WHEN HE PASSES

GAS. HIS TEACHER BELIEVES WE SHOULD JUST TREAT THIS AS A BEHAVIOR

PROBLEM AND DISIPLINE ACCORDINGLY. WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST FOR THIS

UNORTHODOX OCD? HOW CAN YOU TELL WHETHER IT IS COMPULSIONS OR TICS?

HE IS ON CLONDINE, RISPERDAL, LUVOX (125MG) AND CONCERTA. ((DOES

STIMULANTS AGGRAVATE OCD??)) -CONFUSED AND FRUSTRATED, CHERYL

>

> ---------------------------------

>

May 24, 2002

----- Original Message ----- From: cletus oerther

>NOW, HE CAN'T LOOK AT HIS FATHER WITHOUT SPITTING LOTS BECAUSE HIS FATHER'S

HAIRY SKIN. HIS TEACHERS THINKS THIS IS TOO BIZAARE TO BE OCD, THAT HE IS

PROBABLY JUST BEING MANUPULATIVE.

<snip>

>SCREAMS HE HATES IT (THE SOUND, THE COLOR, THE SMELL..) HE IS EVEN SET OFF

(BLOWING AND SPITTING) WHEN HE PASSES GAS. HIS TEACHER BELIEVES WE SHOULD JUST

TREAT THIS AS A BEHAVIOR PROBLEM AND DISIPLINE ACCORDINGLY.

I think teachers are sometimes disadvantaged by their years of experience with

groups of children, because they become expert on typical behavior and concerns

of kids of a certain age as a whole. Ninety-nine times out of 100 (isn't that

the current estimate of the incidence of OCD?) they would be correct. Then

along comes that one child who has concerns and behaviors not under his control,

that add up to the diagnosis of OCD. Even my daughter's best teachers have

wanted to at least try discipline measures first, to rule out that she's just a

smart kid who's being manipulative, before allowing that a problem behavior may

be related to her disorder. This " proving " the dx over and over wastes a lot of

time and effort in the wrong direction, and is very discouraging for my child.

It's my opinion that our kids are so " busy " dealing with their disorders on

top of the normal demands of life, that they have very little energy or

inclination to act out just for the devil of it. No nine-year-old boy would

soil his pants or spit compulsively around his fellow students if he could help

it in any way, this must be excruciatingly embarrassing for him. What I don't

understand is why teachers cling to the " manipulative willful behavior " theory

when there is so obviously no benefit or reward to the child. Usually, it's

just the opposite: compulsions and tics can cause a child to be ridiculed and

rejected. Any " attention " (my daughter's teachers' most common assumption of

her motivation to do a tic or a compulsion) is negative and unpleasant. My

child's main wish (and I suspect most of our kids' wish) is to get through her

day with no upsetting or embarrassing situations. The chance that OCD will get

the upper hand at school is the main cause of the anxiety she feels each morning

in going there.

My own perspective is, I do not expect that Kellen's teachers are experts in

all manifestations of OCD. I *do* expect them to be mindful of her diagnosis

and consider it *first* rather than last, when there is a situation or a

behavior that is a problem at school. Otherwise, there is absolutely no benefit

to my daughter in being diagnosed, and identified to the school as a child with

this disorder. Period. It is cruel, not to mention ineffective, to punish a

child for symptoms of a diagnosed disorder.

Well, these are just the ramblings of an OCDers mom at the end of the school

year. I'm tired! and can only imagine how our kids are feeling :-) Bring on

summer!!!

Kathy R. in Indiana

June 22, 2002

dear kathy,

my son has spitting complusion too. he does not want to say why hedoes that.

To me, if something bothers him he has make disgustung sound and spits. he

said he does not feel like himself,otherwise. he feels besides himself. his

psychologist suspect Tic, but P doc says it is not tic,because before he

spits there is a trigger.

It is embarassing that his shirts is always wet. his bedroom sheets and

pillow smells. I put protectors on his matress and pillow.

sarah

June 22, 2002

HI Cheryl:

Sorry to take so long to reply but I am still way behind on reading

the posts on our list.

I just had to let you know that my son, Steve, now 15+ also suffered

from the same spitting compulsions and delaying bathroom visits until

he would have a bm in his pants. Unfortunately I let myself get too

upset about these as they truly are rather repulsive even when you

know that OCD is behind them.

For the spitting one, we basically waited it out. It upset Steve as

much as us, and luckily OCD morphs over time and another set of

compulsions came to the top of his list. I found it very offensive

though as he would spit and drool onto his T-shirt and then not

change it for a long time. We live in a warm climate and soon his T-

shirt would smell to high heaven. I also felt it made him look truly

demented......

For the pooping in the pants one we addressed that with behavior mod

with rewards for not doing it for a set period and consequences for

doing it. Somehow with the structure of our professional parenting

plan this behavior was turned around rather fast.

Another thing that helped with these compulsions was the fact that

Steve was doing CBT and on meds which allowed him to be more

successful at bossing back.

These compulsions are very hard for people to understand. ly we

learned to ignore people who would tell us Steve was manipulative.

They just don't get it when it comes to understanding OCD. We were

also told it was our fault for letting him get away with things. I

just told people I wished it was a simple as us becoming better

parents as improvement would be so rapid......Still some did not get

it. Now I have rhino hide! :-)

Hang in there, it will get better, take care, aloha, kathy (h)

kathyh@...

>

> DEAR DR CHANSKY:

>

> I AM READING YOUR BOOK ON FREEING YOUR CHILD FROM OCD. I HAVE A 9

YR OLD WITH TS/OCD/ADHD. HE HAS HAD DIFFERENT TICS COME AND GO ALL

HIS LIFE. HE HAS SUPERSTITION ANXIETY ABOUT ODD

NUMBERS,ESPECIALLY '3'. FOR OVER 2 YEARS, IF HE SEES A '3' HE WILL

BLOW AND SPIT (OUT THE EVIL) SO MANY TIMES UNTIL THE 3 IS GONE.SCHOOL

HAS BEEN TOUGH. EVEN THOUGH HE IS BRIGHT, THIS PRESENTS A MAJOR

LEARNING DISABILITY. LATELY, MORE OCD HANGUPS. WHEN HE LOOKS AT

CERTAIN SKIN COLORS ON TV OR IN PERSON (HE SPITS AND BLOWS BECAUSE IT

MAKES HIM FEEL BAD) NOW, HE CAN'T LOOK AT HIS FATHER WITHOUT

SPITTING LOTS BECAUSE HIS FATHER'S HAIRY SKIN. HIS TEACHERS THINKS

THIS IS TOO BIZAARE TO BE OCD, THAT HE IS PROBABLY JUST BEING

MANUPULATIVE. HIS TEACHER (A SPECIAL RESOURCE TEACHER IN A MULTI-

DISABLITY UNIT) BELIEVES HE IS SMART AND " PULLING THE WOOL OVER OUR

EYES " AND MOST OF HIS BEHAVIOR CAN BE MODIFIED BY REINFORCING RULES.

SHE IS GOING TO TAKE HIM TO DINNER THIS SUMMER IF HE EARNS IT BY NOT

SPITTING WHEN SEEING HIS FATHER FOR A MONTH. WELL, NOW HE WANTS TO

PLEASE HER AND WANTS TO GO TO THE SPECIAL DINNER, BUT NOW HE IS

SPITTING MORE AND MORE AT EVERYONE ELSE! I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A TIC

OR OCD. I HAVE ASKED HIM TO TRY AND SUBSTITUTE IT WITH SOMETHING

MORE SUITABLE, BUT HE SAYS HE CAN'T, NOTHING ELSE HELPS THAT FEELING