Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 From: dancat69us > Which exercise helps improve the vertical jump and acceleration better > the power clean or squats? I already have decent leg strength from > doing squats, but will I eventually plateau and speed and jumping > gains not come as easily? Or should I do both exercises and if so can > anyone suggest what type of split between these exercises like should > i do cleans or squats first and how many sets of each. You need both. Add front squats, jump squats, push presses, power snatches jumping clean pulls and deadlifts to the list Colin Chung Sydney, Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 Dan Catalano wrote: > Which exercise helps improve the vertical jump and acceleration better > the power clean or squats? I already have decent leg strength from > doing squats, but will I eventually plateau and speed and jumping > gains not come as easily? Or should I do both exercises and if so can > anyone suggest what type of split between these exercises like should > i do cleans or squats first and how many sets of each. Dan, Either the squat clean or the power clean will improve your jumping ability. Maximum power output for the clean will occur with weights at about 70% of your 1RM clean. With this loading you could do either exercise. If it were me, I would do squat cleans since they are a more athletically demanding exercise. As an added benefit you get a front squat workout free. Marshall Bradley Slidell, Louisiana USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Depends on your leg strength. What do you mean by decent leg strength? If you can parallel squat 3 times your body weight then you don't need to prioritize leg strength, but just maintain it. Depends on your power clean technique as well. At my university I see a lot of people with ugly technique, and more importantly, don't really receive the bar in any sort of squat position, so not improving eccentric strength or the Stretch Shortening Cycle. If your technique is not up to scratch then you are probably better off doing fast squats taking about 0.5 seconds, with an appropriate weight. If you have a suitable amount of strength you could of course try plyometric/jump drills, but if you don't have the strength you will risk injury. It would be helpful to know figures for your sqauts, cleans, vertical jump etc, particularly the relationship between back front squat and power clean, because ratios show the strength and power relationship and whether you should prioritize one or the other or both. Register, Guildford, Surrey, United Kindom > Which exercise helps improve the vertical jump and acceleration better > the power clean or squats? I already have decent leg strength from > doing squats, but will I eventually plateau and speed and jumping > gains not come as easily? Or should I do both exercises and if so can > anyone suggest what type of split between these exercises like should > i do cleans or squats first and how many sets of each. > > > thanks > > Dan Catalano > > Clearfield, PA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Depends on your leg strength. What do you mean by decent leg strength? If you can parallel squat 3 times your body weight then you don't need to prioritize leg strength, but just maintain it. Depends on your power clean technique as well. At my university I see a lot of people with ugly technique, and more importantly, don't really receive the bar in any sort of squat position, so not improving eccentric strength or the Stretch Shortening Cycle. If your technique is not up to scratch then you are probably better off doing fast squats taking about 0.5 seconds, with an appropriate weight. If you have a suitable amount of strength you could of course try plyometric/jump drills, but if you don't have the strength you will risk injury. It would be helpful to know figures for your sqauts, cleans, vertical jump etc, particularly the relationship between back front squat and power clean, because ratios show the strength and power relationship and whether you should prioritize one or the other or both. Register, Guildford, Surrey, United Kindom > Which exercise helps improve the vertical jump and acceleration better > the power clean or squats? I already have decent leg strength from > doing squats, but will I eventually plateau and speed and jumping > gains not come as easily? Or should I do both exercises and if so can > anyone suggest what type of split between these exercises like should > i do cleans or squats first and how many sets of each. > > > thanks > > Dan Catalano > > Clearfield, PA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 From: Register: > It would be helpful to know figures for your sqauts, cleans, vertical > jump etc, particularly the relationship between back front squat and > power clean, because ratios show the strength and power relationship > and whether you should prioritize one or the other or both. What are good ratios of transfer between the Full Front Squat and a minimal knee bend Power Clean? Colin Chung Sydney, Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 Register wrote: <Depends on your leg strength. What do you mean by decent leg strength? If you can parallel squat 3 times your body weight then you don't need to prioritize leg strength, but just maintain it. > ****Who says this? Any research to back up this claim? <Depends on your power clean technique as well. At my university I see a lot of people with ugly technique, and more importantly, don't really receive the bar in any sort of squat position, so not improving eccentric strength or the Stretch Shortening Cycle. If your technique is not up to scratch then you are probably better off doing fast squats taking about 0.5 seconds, with an appropriate weight. > ****What about his 'squat' technique as well? How would one know whether one's technique is 'up to scratch' as well? Personal opinion of one's own technique is usually subjective. <If you have a suitable amount of strength you could of course try plyometric/jump drills, but if you don't have the strength you will risk injury.> ****What actually is suitable strength to perform plyometric / jump drills? How will Dan know this? <It would be helpful to know figures for your sqauts, cleans, vertical jump etc, particularly the relationship between back front squat and power clean, because ratios show the strength and power relationship and whether you should prioritize one or the other or both.> ***What are these ratios? I would greatly appreciate it if you could expand a little. Many thanks in advance Carruthers Wakefield UK * Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you wish them to be published! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2002 Report Share Posted August 7, 2002 Register wrote: > <Depends on your leg strength. What do you mean by decent leg > strength? If you can parallel squat 3 times your body weight then > you don't need to prioritize leg strength, but just maintain it. > Carruthers: > Who says this? Any research to back up this claim? ** Sorry I forgot to state this was my opinion, I am not sure of the exact level of strength requirements (as measured by an imperfect test such as a squat) that are required to maximise vertical jump performance. I do not feel that in this forum you need to back up every single statement with a reference, this seems very tedious. I was just trying to give the impression that you should not feel you are necessarily strong enough unless you have such immense strength levels. [When you make any quantitative statement as you did, many members of this list would prefer to see the evidence. " Three times your body weight " did not suggest that you were simply providing some imaginary figure to make a point - it implied that you had some sort of evidence that this level of strength means that leg strength does not have to be prioritised. Mel Siff] Register: > Depends on your power clean technique as well. At my university I > see a lot of people with ugly technique, and more importantly, > don't really receive the bar in any sort of squat position, so not > improving eccentric strength or the Stretch Shortening Cycle. If > your technique is not up to scratch then you are probably better > off doing fast squats taking about 0.5 seconds, with an appropriate weight. > Carruthers: > What about his 'squat' technique as well? How would one know > whether one's technique is 'up to scratch' as well? Personal opinion > of one's own technique is usually subjective. ** If someone cannot squat properly then they shouldn't be doing power cleans. Sorry for giving the man credit for being able to squat with some technique. Also I assume for his own interest he has someone coaching him who has some experience in weightlifting (either weightlifters/weightlifting coach) who could analyse his technique. I might have asked him this given a chance. [Why shouldn't anyone power clean if they cannot squat " properly " ? The former exercise requires a relatively small degree of knee flexion and someone who is strong in the pull, deadlift and push press may well be prefectly capable of doing a reasonable power clean even if their squat is below par. Mel Siff] Register: > If you have a suitable amount of strength you could of > course try plyometric/jump drills, but if you don't have the > strength you will risk injury.> Carruthers: > What actually is suitable strength to perform plyometric / jump > drills? How will Dan know this? ** It has been documented in much literature, first in the early soviet/Eastern european literature I believe, that an athlete should be able to squat twice their bodyweight before comencing plyometric training. I was planning on telling him this if he decided to reply. [This is an " urban myth " and it was never stated by any Russians or Eastern Europeans. Some US coaches, however, claimed that this is what these foreign scientists recommended. Note that one does not HAVE to do maximal plyometrics - one can use submaximal drills from much lower heights or under far less demanding conditions. " Supertraining " gives plenty of information on all types and levels of " plyometric " or " shock " training. Mel Siff] Register: > It would be helpful to know figures for your sqauts, cleans, > vertical jump etc, particularly the relationship between back front > squat and power clean, because ratios show the strength and power > relationship and whether you should prioritize one or the other or > both. Carruthers: > What are these ratios? I would greatly appreciate it if you >could expand a little. My weightlifting coach has such ratios, and they are also posted on the wall at my weightlifting gym. If he replied, then I would have posted such ratios. [Please send those ratios to this list, including the original source from which they came. Mel Siff] Register ..... City? UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2002 Report Share Posted August 8, 2002 Register wrote: <I find it surprising that my answer to this post has been scrutinised so much. The only reason I answered was because the other answers with all due respect were so vague (from Colin Cheung and Marshall Bradley) that I thought they would be no use at all.> ****, apologies indeed if you have become offended by some critical analysis (scrutiny) of your letters concerning the squat versus power clean. One thing I have learnt from Supertraining is that critical analysis is not personal. Just about everyone from the some of the top researchers / strength and conditioners to some of the lesser experienced / knowledgeable members (including myself on a number of occasions) are subjected to critical analysis. In fact, critical analysis (although it may seem negative and harsh at times) is a vital facet of the learning experience. Always welcome critical analysis and enjoy it - learn from others - you have the opportunity on Supertraining to defend one claims / theories, but be prepared preferably with some research. Note this isn't to say anecdotal evidence doesn't sometimes play some relevant role. Regarding your (first) message I was rather sceptical (note - not cynical) of some of your statements, hence thought that critical analysis was required. If you had any research to back up your quantitative statements, I may have or may not have accepted some of your statements. Great to see another UK member on Supertraining Keep it up the good work - hold on tight! Best wishes Carruthers Wakefield UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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