Re: Pre/post-workout supplements versus food

[Guest guest]

<<My goal is primarily strength and power. I am a non-competing

powerlifter who has also begun dabbling in olympic lifting. My goals

are to be as strong and powerful as possible while maintaining body

fat less than 10%. Hypertrophy is only a secondary or tertiary goal

of mine. Bodybuilding is not my focus, but that does not mean I am

not interested in maintaining a lean muscular-looking physique and,

frankly, if I can put on muscle at the same time I gain strength and

power, all the better. However, if push comes to shove (assuming it

were a trade off), I would rather have an extra 20 lbs on my max

squat than 5 lbs of extra muscle.>>

I don't know much about powerlifting, sorry. What I do know, is that

my strength in the 3 power lifts has most increased when it

coincided with the best possible nutrition that can be used to feed

the body.

<<I do not follow any particular popular diet although I have taken

bits and pieces from a lot of sources. I eat approximately 1 gram of

protein per pound of bodyweight. I eat 6 or more times per day and

consume protein at each meal from a variety of sources including

some of my favorites, fish, eggs, milk, chicken, turkey, steak. I

try to eat at least 3-4 servings of fruit per day, usually apples,

grapes and bananas are on my list as well as orange and grapefruit

juices. I avoid high glycemic carbs except during and immediately

after workouts. I try to eat at least 2 servings of veggies per day.

I try to eat healthy fats from fish oils, nuts and olive oil

sources. I have a Tanita scale and monitor by bodyweight and

bodyfat. I adjust my daily calories based on whether my bodyfat is

increasing or decreasing. If I am trying to put muscle on, I don't

mind a little bit of an increase in BF, as long as it does not get

excessive.>>

It seems you have your diet down fairly well. FYI, electrical

bioimpedance scales are very inaccurate measures of bodyfat. I dont

have any sources of info, but I did research this topic when I did

have such a scale... And the fluctuations due to water/food intake

and movement create a very high inaccuracy.

About fruits, I recommend you do some quick research on fructose,

how it replenishes your glycogen, and so on. It is a contradictory

simple sugar. We are thought to believe that its a good food for

athletes becauses its low glycemic, but in actuality, there are

manifolds problems with fructose and sugars that contain fructose.

Lets see .. You see your muscles cannot use fructose, at least

directly. When you eat fructose and it enters the blood stream the

liver is where it gets sucked up. Your liver has a love affair with

fructose and like the movie " Fatal Attraction " just has to have it

all to itself. Glucose is the preferred fuel for your working

muscles. Once fructose is in the liver is does not leave and is

eventually either converted to glycogen (long chains of glucose

units that acts as long term sugar storage that can be exported from

the liver to the brain and muscles on demand) or go towards

producing cholesterol and fat. Well at least one of the three

options, glycogen production, is beneficial. Think one out of three

isn't bad, think again. The body is more likely to convert the

fructose to fat and VLDL cholesterol in persons who have filled

their glycogen stores by eating regular meals that contain other

carbohydrates, because once your storage of liver glycogen is full

the fructose has no place else to go. So let us say you eat a normal

meal. The meal will likely have both complex and simple carbs and

may contain some fructose.

Those complex and simple carbs might just fill up your glycogen

stores (your muscles can and will take up glucose from the blood if

they need it or their glycogen storage is low) then you are left

with fructose having nowhere to go but towards fat and cholesterol.

Scared yet? Well it is not all bad, because the liver does like

fructose so much so that it is better at replenishing liver (not

muscle) glycogen than glucose, about 50% better (mostly because

fructose is pulled out of the blood into the liver so easily while

glucose can pass on by and be utilized by the muscles and other

tissues). Fructose would be ok for someone who is an ultraendurance

athlete with very low glycogen stores that wants to replenish their

supply of liver glycogen.

<<My pre-workout fruit is an apple which I thought was a low

glycemic index fruit. Am I incorrect in this regard?>>

In a technical sense yes. But there are other things to consider,

see above.

<<Also, I am sure that I have read from several sources that pre-

workout carb/protein meals are as important (if not more so) than

the post-workout carb/protein meal>>

You are very correct. Thats why its important we fix your little

fruit problem and make sure you are fueling your workouts correctly.

<<I thought I had read somewhere that there was some research

showing that there are benefits to consuming a high GI drinks during

exercise to replace depleted glycogen which helps prevent a drop-off

in performance towards the end of a workout. Again, I might be wrong

about this, but I recall having read this somewhere.>>

Yes you are correct again, I've read that research myself. high GI

drinks are good post-workout, but also during! Both is good...

<<The chocolate milk I drink is the low fat variety. However it is

high in sugars and protein. I also eat the banana because it is on

the high GI side of the scale. So, from my looking at my meal, I am

eating a high GI carb + protein, low fat meal. Unless there is

something wrong with milk as the source of my post-workout protein

instead of whey, I am unsure what a meal replacement powder or

protein powder would give me that I am not already getting. I am not

trying to be difficult or argumentative -- I just genuinely don't

know what it it that gatorade + whey protein would give me that I am

not getting from lowfat chocolate milk + banana>>

Milk sugars are called lactose. They are extremely low glycemic,

perhaps the lowest glycemic sugars, making them ideal for the

evening before bed. A banana is nothign more than fructose... (once

again, see above in this post about fructose). Gatorade is sort of

high glycemic, although you can of course make your own sugar mix

with dextrose (glucose) and maltodextrin (glucose polymers). If you

need a place to buy this, you can ask me via Email and I'll show you

some excellent places. These high glycemic index sugars will give

you an insulin spike. Milk does the opposite. A banana is almost

counter productive... Whey protein absorbs much faster. Milk is a

combination of whey and casein (whey 20% / casein 80% -- whey is the

fast, casein is the very slow... after workout you want the very

fast!). Plus you probably don't get enough from milk... 40g from

milk is like 4 cups... eek.

<<My second post-workout feeding is much like my pre-workout meal.

It is a carb + protein meal. The fruit used is, again, what I

thought were low-GI fruits, such as apples and grapes. Also, I

thought that the GI of pasta is significantly higher than that of

fruit>>

Yikes, fruits again... pasta is an excellent source of complex

carbs, I don't remember GI's off the top of my head, but 3-4 hours

post-workout you can eat moderate GI foods with no problem.

<<Thank you for your input, although you have left me with a few

more questions regarding my understanding of the role of fruit in

pre and post-workout nutrition. Let me ask another question, if you

were to prescribe pre-workout, during workout and post-workout meals

to someone who didn't want to buy supplements (let's assume for the

moment that Gatorade is not a supplement), what would you suggest

for the strength/power athlete who also cares what he looks like to

the ladies ?>>

Now we're talkin... First off, I hoped this 2nd post has helped a

bit more, if not, keep asking away... If you have any intentions of

loosing any fat whatsoever, throw away your fruits. We can start

there.

1-1.5 hours before workout -- 1.5 servings of gritz or oatmeal w/ 8

egg whites + 1 yolk + 1 cup of milk or few cups of water.

during -- gatorade

after -- potatoes (french fries even) and grilled chicken, or

gatorade and tuna, or gatorade and 8-10 egg whites.

Personally, I think that supplements do a good job of pre-during-

post workout nutrition... thats what I use them for mainly with good

success. You should really consider it, they make life a lot easier

and they are much better than food in the crucial post-workout time.

<<[sadly, far too many men have a misconception of what they think

attracts the ladies physically. Some years ago, a Western study

revealed that the majority of women surveyed do not like excessively

muscular men, but referred men with a leaner

more athletic build, with tight, muscular buttocks and well-shaped

calves and attractive eyes (this report may have appeared

in 'Psychology Today' - others mayremember more clearly). Relaxed

unposed, confident upright deportment was also an important part of

the package. Some bodybuilding women objected to this

finding, so it is apparent that the extremely muscular competitive

bodybuilding physique appeals to a specific group of women. Mel

Siff>>

I don't think anyone (including women) know what women want!!!

Eugene Sanik

Brooklyn, NY