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Hi Natasa

I would also love to know what the new science is. As to chelation, Charlie was

off the test page for lead when he was first tested and after 5 years of

chelation with DMSA his last tests (some time ago as they can't afford them at

the moment) were at near normal level.

Before chelation and biomed he was still regressing.

Jill

> >

> >

> > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,

> > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> >

> > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

> > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it

> > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading

> > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in

> > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both

> > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And

> > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our

> > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal

> > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many

> > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),

> > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed

> > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of

> > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say

> > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be

> > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative

> > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue

> > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.

> > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> > treatment is going to be the same, no?

> >

> > But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers

> > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

> > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will

> > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –

> > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are

> > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course

> > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions

> > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism

> > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to

> > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of

> > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This

> > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of

> > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...

> >

> > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some

> > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to

> > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public

> > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government

> > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this

> > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order

> > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy

> > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism

> > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!

> > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word

> > is…

> >

> > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the

> > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink

> > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

> >

> >

> > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

> > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.

> > As is happening right now.

> >

> > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

> > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for

> > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> > definitely try not to. Will shut up.

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

Hi Natasa

I would also love to know what the new science is. As to chelation, Charlie was

off the test page for lead when he was first tested and after 5 years of

chelation with DMSA his last tests (some time ago as they can't afford them at

the moment) were at near normal level.

Before chelation and biomed he was still regressing.

Jill

> >

> >

> > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,

> > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> >

> > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

> > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it

> > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading

> > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in

> > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both

> > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And

> > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our

> > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal

> > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many

> > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),

> > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed

> > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of

> > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say

> > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be

> > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative

> > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue

> > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.

> > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> > treatment is going to be the same, no?

> >

> > But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers

> > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

> > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will

> > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –

> > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are

> > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course

> > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions

> > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism

> > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to

> > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of

> > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This

> > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of

> > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...

> >

> > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some

> > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to

> > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public

> > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government

> > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this

> > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order

> > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy

> > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism

> > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!

> > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word

> > is…

> >

> > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the

> > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink

> > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

> >

> >

> > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

> > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.

> > As is happening right now.

> >

> > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

> > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for

> > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> > definitely try not to. Will shut up.

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

Jill, that is so great to hear, i have been chelating my lad and have done approx 28 rounds and have seen lots of nice steady gains. I have been getting very confused messages from these posts, which made me think whether i should actually STOP chelating him, as if mercury is not implicated in Autism and it's everywhere in our world, then why should i bother wasting my time and efforts.

x

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: southgatejill@...Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:48:26 +0000Subject: Re: Musings on Progress in science and why I say things I do but won't any more

Hi NatasaI would also love to know what the new science is. As to chelation, Charlie was off the test page for lead when he was first tested and after 5 years of chelation with DMSA his last tests (some time ago as they can't afford them at the moment) were at near normal level.Before chelation and biomed he was still regressing.Jill> >> > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,> > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.> > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in> > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it> > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading> > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in> > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both> > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And> > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our> > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal> > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many> > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),> > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed> > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of> > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say> > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be> > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative> > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue> > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.> > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the> > treatment is going to be the same, no?> > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers> > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could> > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will> > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –> > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,> > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of> > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are> > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course> > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into> > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions> > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism> > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to> > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of> > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This> > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of> > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...> > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some> > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same> > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to> > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public> > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government> > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this> > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order> > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy> > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism> > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!> > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word> > is…> > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the> > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink> > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.> > > > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it> > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.> > As is happening right now.> > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed> > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,> > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for> > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll> > definitely try not to. Will shut up.> >>

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Posted

Jill, that is so great to hear, i have been chelating my lad and have done approx 28 rounds and have seen lots of nice steady gains. I have been getting very confused messages from these posts, which made me think whether i should actually STOP chelating him, as if mercury is not implicated in Autism and it's everywhere in our world, then why should i bother wasting my time and efforts.

x

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: southgatejill@...Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:48:26 +0000Subject: Re: Musings on Progress in science and why I say things I do but won't any more

Hi NatasaI would also love to know what the new science is. As to chelation, Charlie was off the test page for lead when he was first tested and after 5 years of chelation with DMSA his last tests (some time ago as they can't afford them at the moment) were at near normal level.Before chelation and biomed he was still regressing.Jill> >> > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,> > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.> > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in> > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it> > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading> > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in> > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both> > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And> > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our> > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal> > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many> > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),> > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed> > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of> > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say> > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be> > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative> > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue> > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.> > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the> > treatment is going to be the same, no?> > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers> > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could> > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will> > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –> > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,> > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of> > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are> > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course> > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into> > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions> > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism> > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to> > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of> > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This> > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of> > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...> > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some> > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same> > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to> > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public> > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government> > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this> > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order> > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy> > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism> > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!> > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word> > is…> > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the> > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink> > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.> > > > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it> > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.> > As is happening right now.> > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed> > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,> > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for> > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll> > definitely try not to. Will shut up.> >>

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I think the XMRV research is really exciting, but I'm definitely going to continue chelating my son. The fact that AC chelation has had such great results is good enough reason to carry on with it, in my book. If you're seeing gains, I'd keep going!Joanne> > >> > > > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,> > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.> > > > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in> > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it> > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading> > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in> > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both> > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And> > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our> > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal> > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many> > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),> > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed> > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of> > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say> > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be> > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative> > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue> > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.> > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the> > > treatment is going to be the same, no?> > > > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers> > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could> > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will> > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –> > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,> > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of> > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are> > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course> > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into> > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions> > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism> > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to> > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of> > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This> > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of> > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...> > > > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some> > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same> > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to> > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public> > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government> > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this> > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order> > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy> > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism> > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!> > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word> > > is…> > > > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the> > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink> > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.> > > > > > > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it> > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.> > > As is happening right now.> > > > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed> > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,> > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for> > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll> > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.> > >> >>

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I think the XMRV research is really exciting, but I'm definitely going to continue chelating my son. The fact that AC chelation has had such great results is good enough reason to carry on with it, in my book. If you're seeing gains, I'd keep going!Joanne> > >> > > > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,> > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.> > > > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in> > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it> > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading> > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in> > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both> > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And> > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our> > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal> > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many> > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),> > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed> > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of> > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say> > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be> > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative> > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue> > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.> > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the> > > treatment is going to be the same, no?> > > > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers> > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could> > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will> > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –> > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,> > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of> > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are> > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course> > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into> > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions> > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism> > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to> > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of> > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This> > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of> > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...> > > > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some> > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same> > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to> > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public> > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government> > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this> > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order> > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy> > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism> > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!> > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word> > > is…> > > > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the> > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink> > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.> > > > > > > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it> > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.> > > As is happening right now.> > > > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed> > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,> > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for> > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll> > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.> > >> >>

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I think the XMRV research is really exciting, but I'm definitely going to continue chelating my son. The fact that AC chelation has had such great results is good enough reason to carry on with it, in my book. If you're seeing gains, I'd keep going!Joanne> > >> > > > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,> > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.> > > > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in> > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it> > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading> > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in> > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both> > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And> > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our> > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal> > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many> > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),> > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed> > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of> > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say> > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be> > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative> > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue> > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.> > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the> > > treatment is going to be the same, no?> > > > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers> > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could> > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will> > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –> > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,> > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of> > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are> > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course> > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into> > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions> > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism> > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to> > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of> > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This> > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of> > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...> > > > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some> > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same> > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to> > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public> > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government> > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this> > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order> > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy> > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism> > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!> > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word> > > is…> > > > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the> > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink> > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.> > > > > > > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it> > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.> > > As is happening right now.> > > > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed> > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,> > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for> > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll> > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.> > >> >>

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Posted
Posted

, if you are seeing gains why would you stop?

This thread was started by someone asking our opinion on whether IV chelation

was safe and whether to go with the DAN or Andy Cutler's (AC) chelation

protocol. Many people emailed to let her know their positive personal

experience with AC chelation, myself included. No one emailed to say how happy

they were with DAN chelation and no one has posted any personal negative

experience with AC chelation.

Every single person who responded in favour of AC chelation is actually doing it

with their child. We are speaking from our own experience, and we are all

saying how positive it is. AC chelation has changed my family's life to a

degree that I would say is miraculous in such a short period. Maybe this is why

people are so happy to share their experience with others who ask them and not

because they are brainwashed.

I would hate it if this thread has put other people off starting AC chelation

because except for one person who may or may not have tried it, every other

person on this thread who is doing AC chelation has had a great experience with

it. I do understand that it feels like we are being told we are wrong, but

clearly there are enough of us saying it works that this is not possible.

> > >

> > >

> > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,

> > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> > >

> > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

> > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it

> > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading

> > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in

> > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both

> > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And

> > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our

> > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal

> > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many

> > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),

> > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed

> > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of

> > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say

> > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be

> > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative

> > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue

> > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.

> > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> > > treatment is going to be the same, no?

> > >

> > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers

> > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

> > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will

> > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –

> > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are

> > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course

> > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions

> > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism

> > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to

> > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of

> > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This

> > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of

> > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...

> > >

> > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some

> > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to

> > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public

> > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government

> > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this

> > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order

> > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy

> > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism

> > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!

> > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word

> > > is…

> > >

> > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the

> > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink

> > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

> > >

> > >

> > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

> > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.

> > > As is happening right now.

> > >

> > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

> > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for

> > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.

> > >

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

, if you are seeing gains why would you stop?

This thread was started by someone asking our opinion on whether IV chelation

was safe and whether to go with the DAN or Andy Cutler's (AC) chelation

protocol. Many people emailed to let her know their positive personal

experience with AC chelation, myself included. No one emailed to say how happy

they were with DAN chelation and no one has posted any personal negative

experience with AC chelation.

Every single person who responded in favour of AC chelation is actually doing it

with their child. We are speaking from our own experience, and we are all

saying how positive it is. AC chelation has changed my family's life to a

degree that I would say is miraculous in such a short period. Maybe this is why

people are so happy to share their experience with others who ask them and not

because they are brainwashed.

I would hate it if this thread has put other people off starting AC chelation

because except for one person who may or may not have tried it, every other

person on this thread who is doing AC chelation has had a great experience with

it. I do understand that it feels like we are being told we are wrong, but

clearly there are enough of us saying it works that this is not possible.

> > >

> > >

> > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,

> > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> > >

> > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

> > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it

> > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading

> > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in

> > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both

> > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And

> > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our

> > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal

> > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many

> > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),

> > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed

> > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of

> > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say

> > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be

> > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative

> > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue

> > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.

> > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> > > treatment is going to be the same, no?

> > >

> > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers

> > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

> > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will

> > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –

> > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are

> > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course

> > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions

> > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism

> > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to

> > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of

> > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This

> > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of

> > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...

> > >

> > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some

> > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to

> > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public

> > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government

> > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this

> > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order

> > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy

> > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism

> > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!

> > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word

> > > is…

> > >

> > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the

> > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink

> > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

> > >

> > >

> > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

> > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.

> > > As is happening right now.

> > >

> > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

> > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for

> > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.

> > >

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

hi P, email me off list please neno @ dalmaholidays. co.uk

>

>

> From: natasa778 neno@...

> Subject: Musings on Progress in science and

why I say things I do but won't any more

> To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe

> Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 15:25

>

>

> Â

>

>

> This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

interested, long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it

makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading

papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in

which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both

acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults...Â

And yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for

our kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal

removal (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one

and many other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can

search… ), and that chelation for those who tolerate it

is a good part of biomed and that is one of the reasons I try not to

bring up the issue of causation, and also because what is the point

anyway. That is not to say that mercury or metals might not in some

> yet-to-be-discovered way be contributing to autism, but that is a far

cry from them being causative factors. But this is not why I'm posting

this, as not willing to argue any of that now or in future…Â

actually I forgot what the point was. Ah yes, Advocacy! Because

causative factors don't matter if the treatment is going to be the same,

no?

> But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers

has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will

have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments

– even for severe kids and those who don't respond to

biomed, including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are

responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of

course these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and

translate into clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even

long-term) solutions for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent

shift in how autism is perceived by mainstream doctors and public

– the undeniable (to mainstream) proof that autism is

medical and should leave the realm of psychobabble/behavioural science.

No more eye-gazing

> studies, ever. This new knowledge would also have the potential to

halt the explosion of autism, and if not get rid of it completely then

soften the blow...

> This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of

some powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very

same people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy

trying to do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies,

public attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of

government grant funds. End result being that the people at the

forefront of this research are starved out of cash, overworked and

demoralised. In order to survive this research desperately needs lots of

outspoken advocacy and support right now. But while all this has

been going on most autism parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury

narrative to even notice!! I can't help but find this …

perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word is…

> In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in

the way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink

unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

>

> So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.

As is happening right now.

> Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever, some

Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for

generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

definitely try not to. Will shut up.

>

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Posted
Posted

hi P, email me off list please neno @ dalmaholidays. co.uk

>

>

> From: natasa778 neno@...

> Subject: Musings on Progress in science and

why I say things I do but won't any more

> To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe

> Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 15:25

>

>

> Â

>

>

> This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

interested, long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it

makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading

papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in

which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both

acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults...Â

And yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for

our kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal

removal (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one

and many other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can

search… ), and that chelation for those who tolerate it

is a good part of biomed and that is one of the reasons I try not to

bring up the issue of causation, and also because what is the point

anyway. That is not to say that mercury or metals might not in some

> yet-to-be-discovered way be contributing to autism, but that is a far

cry from them being causative factors. But this is not why I'm posting

this, as not willing to argue any of that now or in future…Â

actually I forgot what the point was. Ah yes, Advocacy! Because

causative factors don't matter if the treatment is going to be the same,

no?

> But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers

has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will

have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments

– even for severe kids and those who don't respond to

biomed, including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are

responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of

course these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and

translate into clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even

long-term) solutions for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent

shift in how autism is perceived by mainstream doctors and public

– the undeniable (to mainstream) proof that autism is

medical and should leave the realm of psychobabble/behavioural science.

No more eye-gazing

> studies, ever. This new knowledge would also have the potential to

halt the explosion of autism, and if not get rid of it completely then

soften the blow...

> This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of

some powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very

same people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy

trying to do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies,

public attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of

government grant funds. End result being that the people at the

forefront of this research are starved out of cash, overworked and

demoralised. In order to survive this research desperately needs lots of

outspoken advocacy and support right now. But while all this has

been going on most autism parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury

narrative to even notice!! I can't help but find this …

perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word is…

> In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in

the way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink

unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

>

> So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.

As is happening right now.

> Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever, some

Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for

generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

definitely try not to. Will shut up.

>

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Posted
Posted

I agree with , well said

Natasa

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

interested,

> > > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> > > >

> > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism

theory in

> > > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it,

it

> > > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully

reading

> > > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure

(in

> > > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those

on both

> > > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and

adults... And

> > > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic

for our

> > > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal

removal

> > > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one

and many

> > > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can

search… ),

> > > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of

biomed

> > > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue

of

> > > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is

not to say

> > > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered

way be

> > > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being

causative

> > > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to

argue

> > > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the

point was.

> > > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> > > > treatment is going to be the same, no?

> > > >

> > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of

researchers

> > > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries

that could

> > > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it

will

> > > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments

–

> > > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> > > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> > > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those

who are

> > > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of

course

> > > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and

translate into

> > > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term)

solutions

> > > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how

autism

> > > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the

undeniable (to

> > > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the

realm of

> > > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies,

ever. This

> > > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the

explosion of

> > > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the

blow...

> > > >

> > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because

of some

> > > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very

same

> > > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy

trying to

> > > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies,

public

> > > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of

government

> > > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront

of this

> > > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In

order

> > > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken

advocacy

> > > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most

autism

> > > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even

notice!!

> > > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what

the word

> > > > is…

> > > >

> > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm

shift in the

> > > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to

sink

> > > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter.

Until it

> > > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses

progress.

> > > > As is happening right now.

> > > >

> > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not

supposed

> > > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> > > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering

for

> > > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> > > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

I agree with , well said

Natasa

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

interested,

> > > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> > > >

> > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism

theory in

> > > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it,

it

> > > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully

reading

> > > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure

(in

> > > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those

on both

> > > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and

adults... And

> > > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic

for our

> > > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal

removal

> > > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one

and many

> > > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can

search… ),

> > > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of

biomed

> > > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue

of

> > > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is

not to say

> > > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered

way be

> > > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being

causative

> > > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to

argue

> > > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the

point was.

> > > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> > > > treatment is going to be the same, no?

> > > >

> > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of

researchers

> > > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries

that could

> > > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it

will

> > > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments

–

> > > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> > > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> > > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those

who are

> > > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of

course

> > > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and

translate into

> > > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term)

solutions

> > > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how

autism

> > > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the

undeniable (to

> > > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the

realm of

> > > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies,

ever. This

> > > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the

explosion of

> > > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the

blow...

> > > >

> > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because

of some

> > > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very

same

> > > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy

trying to

> > > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies,

public

> > > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of

government

> > > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront

of this

> > > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In

order

> > > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken

advocacy

> > > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most

autism

> > > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even

notice!!

> > > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what

the word

> > > > is…

> > > >

> > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm

shift in the

> > > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to

sink

> > > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter.

Until it

> > > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses

progress.

> > > > As is happening right now.

> > > >

> > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not

supposed

> > > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> > > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering

for

> > > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> > > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

yes V studies make a splash in papers and then disappear all the time.

this one has no media pumping it up, just top quality science being done

on the quiet... also different here is there are real life models of

regression and recovery.

Natasa

>

> Not to break the habit of a lifetime I'm going to ask a really stupid

question.

> What exciting discoveries are you referring to Natasa?

> I see things come up all the time and then die away again.

> Vicky

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Musings on Progress in science and

why I say things I do but won't any more

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This toclear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

interested, long but thenI'll stop promise LOL.

> As most knowI've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

the past, it never mademuch sense whichever way I looked at it, it makes

even less sense to me now,and especially after carefully reading papers

on developmental outcomes ofcongenital mercury exposure (in which all

classic Autism symptoms are clearlyabsent), or those on both acute and

chronic/subclinical exposures in children andadults... And yes I do

believe that manychelators are potentially fantastic for our kids, and

for reasons that may not havemuch to do with metal removal (yes I DID

post loads of science on those effectson this one and many other lists a

good while ago, if anyone is interested cansearch… ), and that

chelation for thosewho tolerate it is a good part of biomed and that is

one of the reasons I trynot to bring up the issue of causation, and also

because what is the pointanyway. That is not to say that mercury or

metals might not in someyet-to-be-discovered way be contributing to

autism, but that is a far cry from thembeing causative factors. But this

is not why I'm posting this, as not willingto argue any of that now or

in future… actually Iforgot what the point was. Ah yes, Advocacy!

Because causative factors don'tmatter if the treatment is going to be

the same, no?

> But latelysomething has been happening. A small group of researchers

has been coming upwith some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

have enormous effects forour kids. If this research pans out it will

have the potential to start on thepath of many novel treatments †"

even for severe kids and those who don'trespond to biomed, including

kids who remain very much autistic after a decadeof chelation/biomed, it

would also help tailor treatments to those who areresponders and are

doing well but not off the spectrum … of course these

discoveries,if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

clinical trials, will notbring instant (or even long-term) solutions for

everyone BUT they would bringabout a permanent shift in how autism is

perceived by mainstream doctors andpublic †" the undeniable (to

mainstream) proof that autism is medical and shouldleave the realm of

psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This

new knowledge would also havethe potential to halt the explosion of

autism, and if not get rid of itcompletely then soften the blow...

> Thisresearch is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some

powerfulpeople with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

people who buriedsimilar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to

do the same thing rightnow - through fake negative studies, public

attacks, accusations and starving anyoneinvolved out of government grant

funds. End result being that the people at theforefront of this research

are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised.In order to survive

this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacyand support

right now. But while allthis has been going on most autism parents are

too absorbed into autism=mercurynarrative to even notice!! I can't help

but find this … perplexing? Sad? Notsure what the word is…

> In short agolden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in

the way autism isperceived and treated and supported is about to sink

unless nothing is done onadvocacy front in near future.

>

> So yes themercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

does, until it shapesthings in such a way that it paralyses progress. As

is happening right now.

> Then againmaybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

to `know' things,maybe autism is meant to be with us forever, some

Original Sin crap orsomething, perpetuation of suffering for generations

to come. Should any of uscare? Should I care? I'll definitely try not

to. Will shut up.

>

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Posted
Posted

Can we please stop the sarcasm and the digs.

Its getting ridiculous now

Lets just stop.

Because of the emotions involved in our children, it is easy for all our

suppressed anger to rise at the slightest thing.

Otherwise what will happen is this forum will be closed and then where will

everyone be.

> >

> > Not to break the habit of a lifetime I'm going to ask a really stupid

> question.

> > What exciting discoveries are you referring to Natasa?

> > I see things come up all the time and then die away again.

> > Vicky

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Musings on Progress in science and

> why I say things I do but won't any more

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > This toclear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

> interested, long but thenI'll stop promise LOL.

> > As most knowI've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

> the past, it never mademuch sense whichever way I looked at it, it makes

> even less sense to me now,and especially after carefully reading papers

> on developmental outcomes ofcongenital mercury exposure (in which all

> classic Autism symptoms are clearlyabsent), or those on both acute and

> chronic/subclinical exposures in children andadults... And yes I do

> believe that manychelators are potentially fantastic for our kids, and

> for reasons that may not havemuch to do with metal removal (yes I DID

> post loads of science on those effectson this one and many other lists a

> good while ago, if anyone is interested cansearch… ), and that

> chelation for thosewho tolerate it is a good part of biomed and that is

> one of the reasons I trynot to bring up the issue of causation, and also

> because what is the pointanyway. That is not to say that mercury or

> metals might not in someyet-to-be-discovered way be contributing to

> autism, but that is a far cry from thembeing causative factors. But this

> is not why I'm posting this, as not willingto argue any of that now or

> in future… actually Iforgot what the point was. Ah yes, Advocacy!

> Because causative factors don'tmatter if the treatment is going to be

> the same, no?

> > But latelysomething has been happening. A small group of researchers

> has been coming upwith some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

> have enormous effects forour kids. If this research pans out it will

> have the potential to start on thepath of many novel treatments †"

> even for severe kids and those who don'trespond to biomed, including

> kids who remain very much autistic after a decadeof chelation/biomed, it

> would also help tailor treatments to those who areresponders and are

> doing well but not off the spectrum … of course these

> discoveries,if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> clinical trials, will notbring instant (or even long-term) solutions for

> everyone BUT they would bringabout a permanent shift in how autism is

> perceived by mainstream doctors andpublic †" the undeniable (to

> mainstream) proof that autism is medical and shouldleave the realm of

> psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This

> new knowledge would also havethe potential to halt the explosion of

> autism, and if not get rid of itcompletely then soften the blow...

> > Thisresearch is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some

> powerfulpeople with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> people who buriedsimilar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to

> do the same thing rightnow - through fake negative studies, public

> attacks, accusations and starving anyoneinvolved out of government grant

> funds. End result being that the people at theforefront of this research

> are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised.In order to survive

> this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacyand support

> right now. But while allthis has been going on most autism parents are

> too absorbed into autism=mercurynarrative to even notice!! I can't help

> but find this … perplexing? Sad? Notsure what the word is…

> > In short agolden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in

> the way autism isperceived and treated and supported is about to sink

> unless nothing is done onadvocacy front in near future.

> >

> > So yes themercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

> does, until it shapesthings in such a way that it paralyses progress. As

> is happening right now.

> > Then againmaybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

> to `know' things,maybe autism is meant to be with us forever, some

> Original Sin crap orsomething, perpetuation of suffering for generations

> to come. Should any of uscare? Should I care? I'll definitely try not

> to. Will shut up.

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

Can we please stop the sarcasm and the digs.

Its getting ridiculous now

Lets just stop.

Because of the emotions involved in our children, it is easy for all our

suppressed anger to rise at the slightest thing.

Otherwise what will happen is this forum will be closed and then where will

everyone be.

> >

> > Not to break the habit of a lifetime I'm going to ask a really stupid

> question.

> > What exciting discoveries are you referring to Natasa?

> > I see things come up all the time and then die away again.

> > Vicky

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Musings on Progress in science and

> why I say things I do but won't any more

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > This toclear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

> interested, long but thenI'll stop promise LOL.

> > As most knowI've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

> the past, it never mademuch sense whichever way I looked at it, it makes

> even less sense to me now,and especially after carefully reading papers

> on developmental outcomes ofcongenital mercury exposure (in which all

> classic Autism symptoms are clearlyabsent), or those on both acute and

> chronic/subclinical exposures in children andadults... And yes I do

> believe that manychelators are potentially fantastic for our kids, and

> for reasons that may not havemuch to do with metal removal (yes I DID

> post loads of science on those effectson this one and many other lists a

> good while ago, if anyone is interested cansearch… ), and that

> chelation for thosewho tolerate it is a good part of biomed and that is

> one of the reasons I trynot to bring up the issue of causation, and also

> because what is the pointanyway. That is not to say that mercury or

> metals might not in someyet-to-be-discovered way be contributing to

> autism, but that is a far cry from thembeing causative factors. But this

> is not why I'm posting this, as not willingto argue any of that now or

> in future… actually Iforgot what the point was. Ah yes, Advocacy!

> Because causative factors don'tmatter if the treatment is going to be

> the same, no?

> > But latelysomething has been happening. A small group of researchers

> has been coming upwith some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

> have enormous effects forour kids. If this research pans out it will

> have the potential to start on thepath of many novel treatments †"

> even for severe kids and those who don'trespond to biomed, including

> kids who remain very much autistic after a decadeof chelation/biomed, it

> would also help tailor treatments to those who areresponders and are

> doing well but not off the spectrum … of course these

> discoveries,if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> clinical trials, will notbring instant (or even long-term) solutions for

> everyone BUT they would bringabout a permanent shift in how autism is

> perceived by mainstream doctors andpublic †" the undeniable (to

> mainstream) proof that autism is medical and shouldleave the realm of

> psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This

> new knowledge would also havethe potential to halt the explosion of

> autism, and if not get rid of itcompletely then soften the blow...

> > Thisresearch is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some

> powerfulpeople with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> people who buriedsimilar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to

> do the same thing rightnow - through fake negative studies, public

> attacks, accusations and starving anyoneinvolved out of government grant

> funds. End result being that the people at theforefront of this research

> are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised.In order to survive

> this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacyand support

> right now. But while allthis has been going on most autism parents are

> too absorbed into autism=mercurynarrative to even notice!! I can't help

> but find this … perplexing? Sad? Notsure what the word is…

> > In short agolden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in

> the way autism isperceived and treated and supported is about to sink

> unless nothing is done onadvocacy front in near future.

> >

> > So yes themercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

> does, until it shapesthings in such a way that it paralyses progress. As

> is happening right now.

> > Then againmaybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

> to `know' things,maybe autism is meant to be with us forever, some

> Original Sin crap orsomething, perpetuation of suffering for generations

> to come. Should any of uscare? Should I care? I'll definitely try not

> to. Will shut up.

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

Dear Natasa,

It's so exciting to know that there are ongoing research may be helpful to our

kids .MY son has very complex profile,I shared his difficulties many

times.Regressions several times in his lifewas so striking.I would definetely

will try AC chealation when organise my head first..My son has been on DAN since

the age of five.I am still talking about gut problems, weight gain,etc...

Please share with us whatever you know about this exciting research studies..

many thanks

nevin

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

> interested,

> > > > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> > > > >

> > > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism

> theory in

> > > > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it,

> it

> > > > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully

> reading

> > > > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure

> (in

> > > > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those

> on both

> > > > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and

> adults... And

> > > > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic

> for our

> > > > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal

> removal

> > > > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one

> and many

> > > > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can

> search… ),

> > > > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of

> biomed

> > > > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue

> of

> > > > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is

> not to say

> > > > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered

> way be

> > > > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being

> causative

> > > > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to

> argue

> > > > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the

> point was.

> > > > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> > > > > treatment is going to be the same, no?

> > > > >

> > > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of

> researchers

> > > > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries

> that could

> > > > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it

> will

> > > > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments

> –

> > > > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> > > > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> > > > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those

> who are

> > > > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of

> course

> > > > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and

> translate into

> > > > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term)

> solutions

> > > > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how

> autism

> > > > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the

> undeniable (to

> > > > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the

> realm of

> > > > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies,

> ever. This

> > > > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the

> explosion of

> > > > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the

> blow...

> > > > >

> > > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because

> of some

> > > > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very

> same

> > > > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy

> trying to

> > > > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies,

> public

> > > > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of

> government

> > > > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront

> of this

> > > > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In

> order

> > > > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken

> advocacy

> > > > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most

> autism

> > > > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even

> notice!!

> > > > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what

> the word

> > > > > is…

> > > > >

> > > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm

> shift in the

> > > > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to

> sink

> > > > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter.

> Until it

> > > > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses

> progress.

> > > > > As is happening right now.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not

> supposed

> > > > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> > > > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering

> for

> > > > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> > > > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

Dear Natasa,

It's so exciting to know that there are ongoing research may be helpful to our

kids .MY son has very complex profile,I shared his difficulties many

times.Regressions several times in his lifewas so striking.I would definetely

will try AC chealation when organise my head first..My son has been on DAN since

the age of five.I am still talking about gut problems, weight gain,etc...

Please share with us whatever you know about this exciting research studies..

many thanks

nevin

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

> interested,

> > > > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> > > > >

> > > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism

> theory in

> > > > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it,

> it

> > > > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully

> reading

> > > > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure

> (in

> > > > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those

> on both

> > > > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and

> adults... And

> > > > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic

> for our

> > > > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal

> removal

> > > > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one

> and many

> > > > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can

> search… ),

> > > > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of

> biomed

> > > > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue

> of

> > > > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is

> not to say

> > > > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered

> way be

> > > > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being

> causative

> > > > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to

> argue

> > > > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the

> point was.

> > > > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> > > > > treatment is going to be the same, no?

> > > > >

> > > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of

> researchers

> > > > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries

> that could

> > > > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it

> will

> > > > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments

> –

> > > > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> > > > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> > > > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those

> who are

> > > > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of

> course

> > > > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and

> translate into

> > > > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term)

> solutions

> > > > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how

> autism

> > > > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the

> undeniable (to

> > > > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the

> realm of

> > > > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies,

> ever. This

> > > > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the

> explosion of

> > > > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the

> blow...

> > > > >

> > > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because

> of some

> > > > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very

> same

> > > > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy

> trying to

> > > > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies,

> public

> > > > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of

> government

> > > > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront

> of this

> > > > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In

> order

> > > > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken

> advocacy

> > > > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most

> autism

> > > > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even

> notice!!

> > > > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what

> the word

> > > > > is…

> > > > >

> > > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm

> shift in the

> > > > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to

> sink

> > > > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter.

> Until it

> > > > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses

> progress.

> > > > > As is happening right now.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not

> supposed

> > > > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> > > > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering

> for

> > > > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> > > > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Dear Natasa,

It's so exciting to know that there are ongoing research may be helpful to our

kids .MY son has very complex profile,I shared his difficulties many

times.Regressions several times in his lifewas so striking.I would definetely

will try AC chealation when organise my head first..My son has been on DAN since

the age of five.I am still talking about gut problems, weight gain,etc...

Please share with us whatever you know about this exciting research studies..

many thanks

nevin

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

> interested,

> > > > > long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

> > > > >

> > > > > As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism

> theory in

> > > > > the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it,

> it

> > > > > makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully

> reading

> > > > > papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure

> (in

> > > > > which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those

> on both

> > > > > acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and

> adults... And

> > > > > yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic

> for our

> > > > > kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal

> removal

> > > > > (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one

> and many

> > > > > other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can

> search… ),

> > > > > and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of

> biomed

> > > > > and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue

> of

> > > > > causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is

> not to say

> > > > > that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered

> way be

> > > > > contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being

> causative

> > > > > factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to

> argue

> > > > > any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the

> point was.

> > > > > Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> > > > > treatment is going to be the same, no?

> > > > >

> > > > > But lately something has been happening. A small group of

> researchers

> > > > > has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries

> that could

> > > > > have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it

> will

> > > > > have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments

> –

> > > > > even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> > > > > including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> > > > > chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those

> who are

> > > > > responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of

> course

> > > > > these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and

> translate into

> > > > > clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term)

> solutions

> > > > > for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how

> autism

> > > > > is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the

> undeniable (to

> > > > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the

> realm of

> > > > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies,

> ever. This

> > > > > new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the

> explosion of

> > > > > autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the

> blow...

> > > > >

> > > > > This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because

> of some

> > > > > powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very

> same

> > > > > people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy

> trying to

> > > > > do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies,

> public

> > > > > attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of

> government

> > > > > grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront

> of this

> > > > > research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In

> order

> > > > > to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken

> advocacy

> > > > > and support right now. But while all this has been going on most

> autism

> > > > > parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even

> notice!!

> > > > > I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what

> the word

> > > > > is…

> > > > >

> > > > > In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm

> shift in the

> > > > > way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to

> sink

> > > > > unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter.

> Until it

> > > > > does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses

> progress.

> > > > > As is happening right now.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not

> supposed

> > > > > to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> > > > > some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering

> for

> > > > > generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> > > > > definitely try not to. Will shut up.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

are you referring to this particular thread Kirsty? if so sorry but I

cannot see any sarcasam here, being dead serious ?

> > >

> > > Not to break the habit of a lifetime I'm going to ask a really

stupid

> > question.

> > > What exciting discoveries are you referring to Natasa?

> > > I see things come up all the time and then die away again.

> > > Vicky

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Musings on Progress in science

and

> > why I say things I do but won't any more

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This toclear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

> > interested, long but thenI'll stop promise LOL.

> > > As most knowI've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory

in

> > the past, it never mademuch sense whichever way I looked at it, it

makes

> > even less sense to me now,and especially after carefully reading

papers

> > on developmental outcomes ofcongenital mercury exposure (in which

all

> > classic Autism symptoms are clearlyabsent), or those on both acute

and

> > chronic/subclinical exposures in children andadults... And yes I do

> > believe that manychelators are potentially fantastic for our kids,

and

> > for reasons that may not havemuch to do with metal removal (yes I

DID

> > post loads of science on those effectson this one and many other

lists a

> > good while ago, if anyone is interested cansearch… ), and

that

> > chelation for thosewho tolerate it is a good part of biomed and that

is

> > one of the reasons I trynot to bring up the issue of causation, and

also

> > because what is the pointanyway. That is not to say that mercury or

> > metals might not in someyet-to-be-discovered way be contributing to

> > autism, but that is a far cry from thembeing causative factors. But

this

> > is not why I'm posting this, as not willingto argue any of that now

or

> > in future… actually Iforgot what the point was. Ah yes,

Advocacy!

> > Because causative factors don'tmatter if the treatment is going to

be

> > the same, no?

> > > But latelysomething has been happening. A small group of

researchers

> > has been coming upwith some incredibly exciting discoveries that

could

> > have enormous effects forour kids. If this research pans out it will

> > have the potential to start on thepath of many novel treatments

†"

> > even for severe kids and those who don'trespond to biomed, including

> > kids who remain very much autistic after a decadeof

chelation/biomed, it

> > would also help tailor treatments to those who areresponders and are

> > doing well but not off the spectrum … of course these

> > discoveries,if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> > clinical trials, will notbring instant (or even long-term) solutions

for

> > everyone BUT they would bringabout a permanent shift in how autism

is

> > perceived by mainstream doctors andpublic †" the undeniable (to

> > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and shouldleave the realm

of

> > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever.

This

> > new knowledge would also havethe potential to halt the explosion of

> > autism, and if not get rid of itcompletely then soften the blow...

> > > Thisresearch is under real threat of getting squashed, because of

some

> > powerfulpeople with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> > people who buriedsimilar research 20 years ago are very busy trying

to

> > do the same thing rightnow - through fake negative studies, public

> > attacks, accusations and starving anyoneinvolved out of government

grant

> > funds. End result being that the people at theforefront of this

research

> > are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised.In order to

survive

> > this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacyand

support

> > right now. But while allthis has been going on most autism parents

are

> > too absorbed into autism=mercurynarrative to even notice!! I can't

help

> > but find this … perplexing? Sad? Notsure what the word

is…

> > > In short agolden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift

in

> > the way autism isperceived and treated and supported is about to

sink

> > unless nothing is done onadvocacy front in near future.

> > >

> > > So yes themercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until

it

> > does, until it shapesthings in such a way that it paralyses

progress. As

> > is happening right now.

> > > Then againmaybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not

supposed

> > to `know' things,maybe autism is meant to be with us forever, some

> > Original Sin crap orsomething, perpetuation of suffering for

generations

> > to come. Should any of uscare? Should I care? I'll definitely try

not

> > to. Will shut up.

> > >

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

I'm out of here.

Have a great xmas everyone.

If anyone needs to get hold of me, i'll be on my private email address.

I'll be back in the New Year. Until then, I'll be enjoying the sun in florida.

Kirsty

x

> > > >

> > > > Not to break the habit of a lifetime I'm going to ask a really

> stupid

> > > question.

> > > > What exciting discoveries are you referring to Natasa?

> > > > I see things come up all the time and then die away again.

> > > > Vicky

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Musings on Progress in science

> and

> > > why I say things I do but won't any more

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This toclear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

> > > interested, long but thenI'll stop promise LOL.

> > > > As most knowI've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory

> in

> > > the past, it never mademuch sense whichever way I looked at it, it

> makes

> > > even less sense to me now,and especially after carefully reading

> papers

> > > on developmental outcomes ofcongenital mercury exposure (in which

> all

> > > classic Autism symptoms are clearlyabsent), or those on both acute

> and

> > > chronic/subclinical exposures in children andadults... And yes I do

> > > believe that manychelators are potentially fantastic for our kids,

> and

> > > for reasons that may not havemuch to do with metal removal (yes I

> DID

> > > post loads of science on those effectson this one and many other

> lists a

> > > good while ago, if anyone is interested cansearch… ), and

> that

> > > chelation for thosewho tolerate it is a good part of biomed and that

> is

> > > one of the reasons I trynot to bring up the issue of causation, and

> also

> > > because what is the pointanyway. That is not to say that mercury or

> > > metals might not in someyet-to-be-discovered way be contributing to

> > > autism, but that is a far cry from thembeing causative factors. But

> this

> > > is not why I'm posting this, as not willingto argue any of that now

> or

> > > in future… actually Iforgot what the point was. Ah yes,

> Advocacy!

> > > Because causative factors don'tmatter if the treatment is going to

> be

> > > the same, no?

> > > > But latelysomething has been happening. A small group of

> researchers

> > > has been coming upwith some incredibly exciting discoveries that

> could

> > > have enormous effects forour kids. If this research pans out it will

> > > have the potential to start on thepath of many novel treatments

> †"

> > > even for severe kids and those who don'trespond to biomed, including

> > > kids who remain very much autistic after a decadeof

> chelation/biomed, it

> > > would also help tailor treatments to those who areresponders and are

> > > doing well but not off the spectrum … of course these

> > > discoveries,if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> > > clinical trials, will notbring instant (or even long-term) solutions

> for

> > > everyone BUT they would bringabout a permanent shift in how autism

> is

> > > perceived by mainstream doctors andpublic †" the undeniable (to

> > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and shouldleave the realm

> of

> > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever.

> This

> > > new knowledge would also havethe potential to halt the explosion of

> > > autism, and if not get rid of itcompletely then soften the blow...

> > > > Thisresearch is under real threat of getting squashed, because of

> some

> > > powerfulpeople with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> > > people who buriedsimilar research 20 years ago are very busy trying

> to

> > > do the same thing rightnow - through fake negative studies, public

> > > attacks, accusations and starving anyoneinvolved out of government

> grant

> > > funds. End result being that the people at theforefront of this

> research

> > > are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised.In order to

> survive

> > > this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacyand

> support

> > > right now. But while allthis has been going on most autism parents

> are

> > > too absorbed into autism=mercurynarrative to even notice!! I can't

> help

> > > but find this … perplexing? Sad? Notsure what the word

> is…

> > > > In short agolden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift

> in

> > > the way autism isperceived and treated and supported is about to

> sink

> > > unless nothing is done onadvocacy front in near future.

> > > >

> > > > So yes themercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until

> it

> > > does, until it shapesthings in such a way that it paralyses

> progress. As

> > > is happening right now.

> > > > Then againmaybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not

> supposed

> > > to `know' things,maybe autism is meant to be with us forever, some

> > > Original Sin crap orsomething, perpetuation of suffering for

> generations

> > > to come. Should any of uscare? Should I care? I'll definitely try

> not

> > > to. Will shut up.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

I'm out of here.

Have a great xmas everyone.

If anyone needs to get hold of me, i'll be on my private email address.

I'll be back in the New Year. Until then, I'll be enjoying the sun in florida.

Kirsty

x

> > > >

> > > > Not to break the habit of a lifetime I'm going to ask a really

> stupid

> > > question.

> > > > What exciting discoveries are you referring to Natasa?

> > > > I see things come up all the time and then die away again.

> > > > Vicky

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Musings on Progress in science

> and

> > > why I say things I do but won't any more

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This toclear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

> > > interested, long but thenI'll stop promise LOL.

> > > > As most knowI've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory

> in

> > > the past, it never mademuch sense whichever way I looked at it, it

> makes

> > > even less sense to me now,and especially after carefully reading

> papers

> > > on developmental outcomes ofcongenital mercury exposure (in which

> all

> > > classic Autism symptoms are clearlyabsent), or those on both acute

> and

> > > chronic/subclinical exposures in children andadults... And yes I do

> > > believe that manychelators are potentially fantastic for our kids,

> and

> > > for reasons that may not havemuch to do with metal removal (yes I

> DID

> > > post loads of science on those effectson this one and many other

> lists a

> > > good while ago, if anyone is interested cansearch… ), and

> that

> > > chelation for thosewho tolerate it is a good part of biomed and that

> is

> > > one of the reasons I trynot to bring up the issue of causation, and

> also

> > > because what is the pointanyway. That is not to say that mercury or

> > > metals might not in someyet-to-be-discovered way be contributing to

> > > autism, but that is a far cry from thembeing causative factors. But

> this

> > > is not why I'm posting this, as not willingto argue any of that now

> or

> > > in future… actually Iforgot what the point was. Ah yes,

> Advocacy!

> > > Because causative factors don'tmatter if the treatment is going to

> be

> > > the same, no?

> > > > But latelysomething has been happening. A small group of

> researchers

> > > has been coming upwith some incredibly exciting discoveries that

> could

> > > have enormous effects forour kids. If this research pans out it will

> > > have the potential to start on thepath of many novel treatments

> †"

> > > even for severe kids and those who don'trespond to biomed, including

> > > kids who remain very much autistic after a decadeof

> chelation/biomed, it

> > > would also help tailor treatments to those who areresponders and are

> > > doing well but not off the spectrum … of course these

> > > discoveries,if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> > > clinical trials, will notbring instant (or even long-term) solutions

> for

> > > everyone BUT they would bringabout a permanent shift in how autism

> is

> > > perceived by mainstream doctors andpublic †" the undeniable (to

> > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and shouldleave the realm

> of

> > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever.

> This

> > > new knowledge would also havethe potential to halt the explosion of

> > > autism, and if not get rid of itcompletely then soften the blow...

> > > > Thisresearch is under real threat of getting squashed, because of

> some

> > > powerfulpeople with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> > > people who buriedsimilar research 20 years ago are very busy trying

> to

> > > do the same thing rightnow - through fake negative studies, public

> > > attacks, accusations and starving anyoneinvolved out of government

> grant

> > > funds. End result being that the people at theforefront of this

> research

> > > are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised.In order to

> survive

> > > this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacyand

> support

> > > right now. But while allthis has been going on most autism parents

> are

> > > too absorbed into autism=mercurynarrative to even notice!! I can't

> help

> > > but find this … perplexing? Sad? Notsure what the word

> is…

> > > > In short agolden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift

> in

> > > the way autism isperceived and treated and supported is about to

> sink

> > > unless nothing is done onadvocacy front in near future.

> > > >

> > > > So yes themercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until

> it

> > > does, until it shapesthings in such a way that it paralyses

> progress. As

> > > is happening right now.

> > > > Then againmaybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not

> supposed

> > > to `know' things,maybe autism is meant to be with us forever, some

> > > Original Sin crap orsomething, perpetuation of suffering for

> generations

> > > to come. Should any of uscare? Should I care? I'll definitely try

> not

> > > to. Will shut up.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

I'm out of here.

Have a great xmas everyone.

If anyone needs to get hold of me, i'll be on my private email address.

I'll be back in the New Year. Until then, I'll be enjoying the sun in florida.

Kirsty

x

> > > >

> > > > Not to break the habit of a lifetime I'm going to ask a really

> stupid

> > > question.

> > > > What exciting discoveries are you referring to Natasa?

> > > > I see things come up all the time and then die away again.

> > > > Vicky

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Musings on Progress in science

> and

> > > why I say things I do but won't any more

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This toclear few things up from my perspective if anyone is

> > > interested, long but thenI'll stop promise LOL.

> > > > As most knowI've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory

> in

> > > the past, it never mademuch sense whichever way I looked at it, it

> makes

> > > even less sense to me now,and especially after carefully reading

> papers

> > > on developmental outcomes ofcongenital mercury exposure (in which

> all

> > > classic Autism symptoms are clearlyabsent), or those on both acute

> and

> > > chronic/subclinical exposures in children andadults... And yes I do

> > > believe that manychelators are potentially fantastic for our kids,

> and

> > > for reasons that may not havemuch to do with metal removal (yes I

> DID

> > > post loads of science on those effectson this one and many other

> lists a

> > > good while ago, if anyone is interested cansearch… ), and

> that

> > > chelation for thosewho tolerate it is a good part of biomed and that

> is

> > > one of the reasons I trynot to bring up the issue of causation, and

> also

> > > because what is the pointanyway. That is not to say that mercury or

> > > metals might not in someyet-to-be-discovered way be contributing to

> > > autism, but that is a far cry from thembeing causative factors. But

> this

> > > is not why I'm posting this, as not willingto argue any of that now

> or

> > > in future… actually Iforgot what the point was. Ah yes,

> Advocacy!

> > > Because causative factors don'tmatter if the treatment is going to

> be

> > > the same, no?

> > > > But latelysomething has been happening. A small group of

> researchers

> > > has been coming upwith some incredibly exciting discoveries that

> could

> > > have enormous effects forour kids. If this research pans out it will

> > > have the potential to start on thepath of many novel treatments

> †"

> > > even for severe kids and those who don'trespond to biomed, including

> > > kids who remain very much autistic after a decadeof

> chelation/biomed, it

> > > would also help tailor treatments to those who areresponders and are

> > > doing well but not off the spectrum … of course these

> > > discoveries,if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> > > clinical trials, will notbring instant (or even long-term) solutions

> for

> > > everyone BUT they would bringabout a permanent shift in how autism

> is

> > > perceived by mainstream doctors andpublic †" the undeniable (to

> > > mainstream) proof that autism is medical and shouldleave the realm

> of

> > > psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever.

> This

> > > new knowledge would also havethe potential to halt the explosion of

> > > autism, and if not get rid of itcompletely then soften the blow...

> > > > Thisresearch is under real threat of getting squashed, because of

> some

> > > powerfulpeople with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> > > people who buriedsimilar research 20 years ago are very busy trying

> to

> > > do the same thing rightnow - through fake negative studies, public

> > > attacks, accusations and starving anyoneinvolved out of government

> grant

> > > funds. End result being that the people at theforefront of this

> research

> > > are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised.In order to

> survive

> > > this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacyand

> support

> > > right now. But while allthis has been going on most autism parents

> are

> > > too absorbed into autism=mercurynarrative to even notice!! I can't

> help

> > > but find this … perplexing? Sad? Notsure what the word

> is…

> > > > In short agolden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift

> in

> > > the way autism isperceived and treated and supported is about to

> sink

> > > unless nothing is done onadvocacy front in near future.

> > > >

> > > > So yes themercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until

> it

> > > does, until it shapesthings in such a way that it paralyses

> progress. As

> > > is happening right now.

> > > > Then againmaybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not

> supposed

> > > to `know' things,maybe autism is meant to be with us forever, some

> > > Original Sin crap orsomething, perpetuation of suffering for

> generations

> > > to come. Should any of uscare? Should I care? I'll definitely try

> not

> > > to. Will shut up.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

hi Natasa can you expand on these studies i seem confused what are they? where

are they? can we look at them? we all want to know more as its seems beyond

belief! best Isobel x

>

>

> This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,

> long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

>

> As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

> the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it

> makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading

> papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in

> which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both

> acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And

> yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our

> kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal

> (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many

> other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),

> and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed

> and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of

> causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say

> that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be

> contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative

> factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue

> any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.

> Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> treatment is going to be the same, no?

>

> But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers

> has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

> have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will

> have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –

> even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are

> responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course

> these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions

> for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism

> is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to

> mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of

> psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This

> new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of

> autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...

>

> This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some

> powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to

> do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public

> attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government

> grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this

> research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order

> to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy

> and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism

> parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!

> I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word

> is…

>

> In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the

> way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink

> unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

>

>

> So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

> does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.

> As is happening right now.

>

> Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

> to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for

> generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> definitely try not to. Will shut up.

>

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Posted

hi Natasa can you expand on these studies i seem confused what are they? where

are they? can we look at them? we all want to know more as its seems beyond

belief! best Isobel x

>

>

> This to clear few things up from my perspective if anyone is interested,

> long but then I'll stop promise LOL.

>

> As most know I've never bought into mercury-causing-autism theory in

> the past, it never made much sense whichever way I looked at it, it

> makes even less sense to me now, and especially after carefully reading

> papers on developmental outcomes of congenital mercury exposure (in

> which all classic Autism symptoms are clearly absent), or those on both

> acute and chronic/subclinical exposures in children and adults... And

> yes I do believe that many chelators are potentially fantastic for our

> kids, and for reasons that may not have much to do with metal removal

> (yes I DID post loads of science on those effects on this one and many

> other lists a good while ago, if anyone is interested can search… ),

> and that chelation for those who tolerate it is a good part of biomed

> and that is one of the reasons I try not to bring up the issue of

> causation, and also because what is the point anyway. That is not to say

> that mercury or metals might not in some yet-to-be-discovered way be

> contributing to autism, but that is a far cry from them being causative

> factors. But this is not why I'm posting this, as not willing to argue

> any of that now or in future… actually I forgot what the point was.

> Ah yes, Advocacy! Because causative factors don't matter if the

> treatment is going to be the same, no?

>

> But lately something has been happening. A small group of researchers

> has been coming up with some incredibly exciting discoveries that could

> have enormous effects for our kids. If this research pans out it will

> have the potential to start on the path of many novel treatments –

> even for severe kids and those who don't respond to biomed,

> including kids who remain very much autistic after a decade of

> chelation/biomed, it would also help tailor treatments to those who are

> responders and are doing well but not off the spectrum … of course

> these discoveries, if confirmed and allowed to expand and translate into

> clinical trials, will not bring instant (or even long-term) solutions

> for everyone BUT they would bring about a permanent shift in how autism

> is perceived by mainstream doctors and public – the undeniable (to

> mainstream) proof that autism is medical and should leave the realm of

> psychobabble/behavioural science. No more eye-gazing studies, ever. This

> new knowledge would also have the potential to halt the explosion of

> autism, and if not get rid of it completely then soften the blow...

>

> This research is under real threat of getting squashed, because of some

> powerful people with a lot to lose if it pans out, and the very same

> people who buried similar research 20 years ago are very busy trying to

> do the same thing right now - through fake negative studies, public

> attacks, accusations and starving anyone involved out of government

> grant funds. End result being that the people at the forefront of this

> research are starved out of cash, overworked and demoralised. In order

> to survive this research desperately needs lots of outspoken advocacy

> and support right now. But while all this has been going on most autism

> parents are too absorbed into autism=mercury narrative to even notice!!

> I can't help but find this … perplexing? Sad? Not sure what the word

> is…

>

> In short a golden opportunity to bring about MAJOR paradigm shift in the

> way autism is perceived and treated and supported is about to sink

> unless nothing is done on advocacy front in near future.

>

>

> So yes the mercury=causation theory does not really matter. Until it

> does, until it shapes things in such a way that it paralyses progress.

> As is happening right now.

>

> Then again maybe it is the way it should be, maybe we are not supposed

> to `know' things, maybe autism is meant to be with us forever,

> some Original Sin crap or something, perpetuation of suffering for

> generations to come. Should any of us care? Should I care? I'll

> definitely try not to. Will shut up.

>

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