Jump to content
RemedySpot.com

Re: Ethical issues and pregnancy

Rate this topic

Guest guest

By Guest guest
in Health, Medicine and Natural Healing 09

 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

i hear what you are saying. considering i have an autistic daughter, who in most

cases thinks and acts as a 6 year old...would i be even thinking that one day

she will fall pregnant...no thanks, don't even want to go there. but, as i was

told the other day from her doc. she will get older, she will leave school, she

will no doubt go into some sort of work placement if at all possible, where

mummy cannot be there 24/7. yes, there is birth control, but, she is autistic,

and things get forgotten and refused, things happen. Every persons situation is

different, and life takes on dramatic tracks and trails that none of us figure.

If the worst happened, i would not terminate.......i just couldn't, and if this

mean't i cared for the child, so be it. It would be the same if my NT daughter

came home and said ooops mum, i would help her out anyway possible. its alright

to sit and say, well this is how its going to be, but even the best laid plans

can go astray at times. Did i think i would be looking at all this organising

and worry for a daughter as i get older and see death approaching, what will

become of her? No.....and i wish i never had to be in this situation, but its

what God deemed me, so here i am, and i am going to do the best that i can,

while i can. i will get off now, as i can feel the tears starting to well

up....................

Cheryl S [chez]

To: Autism_in_Girls_and_Women

From: shahmeran@...

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:00:11 -0700

Subject: Ethical issues and pregnancy

I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

and birth a child.

As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

providing for even its most basic needs.

Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

and child will require?

To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

essentially keeps them children forever.

In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

that is the epitome of selfishness.

Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

Wetsy " doll.

Best,

~CJ

_________________________________________________________________

View photos of singles in your area Click Here

http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fdating%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fch\

annel%2Findex%2Easpx%3Ftrackingid%3D1046247 & _t=773166080 & _r=Hotmail_Endtext & _m=E\

XT

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

i hear what you are saying. considering i have an autistic daughter, who in most

cases thinks and acts as a 6 year old...would i be even thinking that one day

she will fall pregnant...no thanks, don't even want to go there. but, as i was

told the other day from her doc. she will get older, she will leave school, she

will no doubt go into some sort of work placement if at all possible, where

mummy cannot be there 24/7. yes, there is birth control, but, she is autistic,

and things get forgotten and refused, things happen. Every persons situation is

different, and life takes on dramatic tracks and trails that none of us figure.

If the worst happened, i would not terminate.......i just couldn't, and if this

mean't i cared for the child, so be it. It would be the same if my NT daughter

came home and said ooops mum, i would help her out anyway possible. its alright

to sit and say, well this is how its going to be, but even the best laid plans

can go astray at times. Did i think i would be looking at all this organising

and worry for a daughter as i get older and see death approaching, what will

become of her? No.....and i wish i never had to be in this situation, but its

what God deemed me, so here i am, and i am going to do the best that i can,

while i can. i will get off now, as i can feel the tears starting to well

up....................

Cheryl S [chez]

To: Autism_in_Girls_and_Women

From: shahmeran@...

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:00:11 -0700

Subject: Ethical issues and pregnancy

I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

and birth a child.

As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

providing for even its most basic needs.

Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

and child will require?

To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

essentially keeps them children forever.

In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

that is the epitome of selfishness.

Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

Wetsy " doll.

Best,

~CJ

_________________________________________________________________

View photos of singles in your area Click Here

http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fdating%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fch\

annel%2Findex%2Easpx%3Ftrackingid%3D1046247 & _t=773166080 & _r=Hotmail_Endtext & _m=E\

XT

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

CJ wrote:

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

It wasn't my mother's choice, and I *am* classed as high functioning

(barely) but I can't live by myself, my housemate takes care of me. And

it was proved to me that I could not handle becoming pregnant, giving

birth, or properly caring for a child. I can't even remember to take my

medications for my asthma every day, much less anything else more

demanding. That's why I got the IUD, specifically. For five years I

cannot get pregnant, and there is nothing to forget.

It isn't fair to subject a baby to neglect just because I can't care for

it properly. It might be less a problem if I had someone really taking

care of me, but even then it would not be fair.

Akari

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

CJ wrote:

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

It wasn't my mother's choice, and I *am* classed as high functioning

(barely) but I can't live by myself, my housemate takes care of me. And

it was proved to me that I could not handle becoming pregnant, giving

birth, or properly caring for a child. I can't even remember to take my

medications for my asthma every day, much less anything else more

demanding. That's why I got the IUD, specifically. For five years I

cannot get pregnant, and there is nothing to forget.

It isn't fair to subject a baby to neglect just because I can't care for

it properly. It might be less a problem if I had someone really taking

care of me, but even then it would not be fair.

Akari

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

CJ wrote:

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

It wasn't my mother's choice, and I *am* classed as high functioning

(barely) but I can't live by myself, my housemate takes care of me. And

it was proved to me that I could not handle becoming pregnant, giving

birth, or properly caring for a child. I can't even remember to take my

medications for my asthma every day, much less anything else more

demanding. That's why I got the IUD, specifically. For five years I

cannot get pregnant, and there is nothing to forget.

It isn't fair to subject a baby to neglect just because I can't care for

it properly. It might be less a problem if I had someone really taking

care of me, but even then it would not be fair.

Akari

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

CJ, I'm not sure to whom you are referring or your definition of " severely

autistic. " Example being one could be quite bright, aware, and able yet be

completely unable to speak words. Some may see a woman in this capacity as

" severe " while others may see her as mild. Yet other women may appear " mild " in

being able to be quite conversational or have little/no behaviors associated

with autism yet have very low cognitive abilities. I get from your post your

assumption that any woman with autism has no ability to consent to sex. I argue

while that may be a possibility you cannot issue such a blanket statement and it

have true merit.

I find it interesting that you are willing to state it's okay for those with

Asperger Syndrome to be sexually active/parent children but not those with

full-blown autism diagnoses. The only difference in those two diagnoses is the

absence or presence of speech delay.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. That said, you are one person and do

not have the right to decide the fertility of every other female.

Debi

>

>

>

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

> of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

> of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

> children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

>

> These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

> consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

> ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

> maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

> of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

> process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

> severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

> providing for even its most basic needs.

>

> Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

> terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

> the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

> their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

> perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

> them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

> they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

>

> I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

> grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

> about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

> whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

> additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

> and child will require?

>

> To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

> those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

> essentially keeps them children forever.

>

> In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

> feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

> becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

> placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

> the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

> alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

> that is the epitome of selfishness.

>

> Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

> age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

> containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

> not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

> of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

>

> Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

> dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

> be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

> Wetsy " doll.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

my daughter would be classed as high functioning, she can talk, though not have

conversation. she can shower, toilet, brush hair, dress...........will never

drive, i wouldnt let her cross a road by herself, and being able to buy

groceries on her own and work money out...maybe in time. So how does one class

what kind of autism our children have? i agree deb, makes it darn hard doesn't

it. what i see is hannah being almost easy to care for, others would find an

absolute nightmare.

Cheryl S [chez]

To: Autism_in_Girls_and_Women

From: fightingautism@...

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:20:33 +0000

Subject: Re: Ethical issues and pregnancy

CJ, I'm not sure to whom you are referring or your definition of " severely

autistic. " Example being one could be quite bright, aware, and able yet be

completely unable to speak words. Some may see a woman in this capacity as

" severe " while others may see her as mild. Yet other women may appear " mild " in

being able to be quite conversational or have little/no behaviors associated

with autism yet have very low cognitive abilities. I get from your post your

assumption that any woman with autism has no ability to consent to sex. I argue

while that may be a possibility you cannot issue such a blanket statement and it

have true merit.

I find it interesting that you are willing to state it's okay for those with

Asperger Syndrome to be sexually active/parent children but not those with

full-blown autism diagnoses. The only difference in those two diagnoses is the

absence or presence of speech delay.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. That said, you are one person and do

not have the right to decide the fertility of every other female.

Debi

>

>

>

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

> of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

> of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

> children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

>

> These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

> consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

> ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

> maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

> of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

> process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

> severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

> providing for even its most basic needs.

>

> Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

> terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

> the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

> their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

> perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

> them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

> they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

>

> I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

> grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

> about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

> whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

> additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

> and child will require?

>

> To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

> those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

> essentially keeps them children forever.

>

> In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

> feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

> becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

> placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

> the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

> alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

> that is the epitome of selfishness.

>

> Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

> age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

> containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

> not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

> of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

>

> Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

> dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

> be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

> Wetsy " doll.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

_________________________________________________________________

Looking for a fresh way to share photos? Get the new Windows Live Messenger.

http://download.live.com/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

my daughter would be classed as high functioning, she can talk, though not have

conversation. she can shower, toilet, brush hair, dress...........will never

drive, i wouldnt let her cross a road by herself, and being able to buy

groceries on her own and work money out...maybe in time. So how does one class

what kind of autism our children have? i agree deb, makes it darn hard doesn't

it. what i see is hannah being almost easy to care for, others would find an

absolute nightmare.

Cheryl S [chez]

To: Autism_in_Girls_and_Women

From: fightingautism@...

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:20:33 +0000

Subject: Re: Ethical issues and pregnancy

CJ, I'm not sure to whom you are referring or your definition of " severely

autistic. " Example being one could be quite bright, aware, and able yet be

completely unable to speak words. Some may see a woman in this capacity as

" severe " while others may see her as mild. Yet other women may appear " mild " in

being able to be quite conversational or have little/no behaviors associated

with autism yet have very low cognitive abilities. I get from your post your

assumption that any woman with autism has no ability to consent to sex. I argue

while that may be a possibility you cannot issue such a blanket statement and it

have true merit.

I find it interesting that you are willing to state it's okay for those with

Asperger Syndrome to be sexually active/parent children but not those with

full-blown autism diagnoses. The only difference in those two diagnoses is the

absence or presence of speech delay.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. That said, you are one person and do

not have the right to decide the fertility of every other female.

Debi

>

>

>

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

> of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

> of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

> children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

>

> These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

> consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

> ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

> maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

> of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

> process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

> severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

> providing for even its most basic needs.

>

> Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

> terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

> the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

> their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

> perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

> them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

> they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

>

> I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

> grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

> about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

> whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

> additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

> and child will require?

>

> To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

> those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

> essentially keeps them children forever.

>

> In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

> feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

> becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

> placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

> the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

> alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

> that is the epitome of selfishness.

>

> Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

> age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

> containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

> not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

> of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

>

> Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

> dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

> be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

> Wetsy " doll.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

_________________________________________________________________

Looking for a fresh way to share photos? Get the new Windows Live Messenger.

http://download.live.com/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

my daughter would be classed as high functioning, she can talk, though not have

conversation. she can shower, toilet, brush hair, dress...........will never

drive, i wouldnt let her cross a road by herself, and being able to buy

groceries on her own and work money out...maybe in time. So how does one class

what kind of autism our children have? i agree deb, makes it darn hard doesn't

it. what i see is hannah being almost easy to care for, others would find an

absolute nightmare.

Cheryl S [chez]

To: Autism_in_Girls_and_Women

From: fightingautism@...

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:20:33 +0000

Subject: Re: Ethical issues and pregnancy

CJ, I'm not sure to whom you are referring or your definition of " severely

autistic. " Example being one could be quite bright, aware, and able yet be

completely unable to speak words. Some may see a woman in this capacity as

" severe " while others may see her as mild. Yet other women may appear " mild " in

being able to be quite conversational or have little/no behaviors associated

with autism yet have very low cognitive abilities. I get from your post your

assumption that any woman with autism has no ability to consent to sex. I argue

while that may be a possibility you cannot issue such a blanket statement and it

have true merit.

I find it interesting that you are willing to state it's okay for those with

Asperger Syndrome to be sexually active/parent children but not those with

full-blown autism diagnoses. The only difference in those two diagnoses is the

absence or presence of speech delay.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. That said, you are one person and do

not have the right to decide the fertility of every other female.

Debi

>

>

>

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

> of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

> of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

> children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

>

> These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

> consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

> ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

> maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

> of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

> process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

> severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

> providing for even its most basic needs.

>

> Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

> terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

> the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

> their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

> perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

> them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

> they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

>

> I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

> grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

> about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

> whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

> additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

> and child will require?

>

> To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

> those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

> essentially keeps them children forever.

>

> In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

> feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

> becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

> placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

> the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

> alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

> that is the epitome of selfishness.

>

> Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

> age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

> containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

> not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

> of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

>

> Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

> dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

> be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

> Wetsy " doll.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

_________________________________________________________________

Looking for a fresh way to share photos? Get the new Windows Live Messenger.

http://download.live.com/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Cj I think most of us here would be hard pressed to disagree with some parts

of your analysis. But the timing of this discussion lacks some empathetic

compassion.

The mothers/grandmothers on this list are standup dedicated, thoughtful,

insightful mothers. Let us not do or say anything that adds to their pain.

Their lives have been altered dramatically. They have not failed their

daughters or their grand children. They are stepping into the reality, a

difficult reality, well aware, well informed and doing their utmost to

bravely continue to parent and grandparent. I have the deepest regard and

respect for you new grandmothers. Who among us can do anything other than

praise you and want to offer our support. None of us would want to walk in

your shoes. Many of us will, inspite of our best proactive mothering.

.. The new mothers here should not be labeled as inadequate to the task.

Many of us had mothers without " disability " who fell far short of the ideal.

I feel indignant that you are making these statements about these fine

women on our list. Jay

-- Ethical issues and pregnancy

I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

and birth a child.

As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

providing for even its most basic needs.

Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

and child will require?

To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

essentially keeps them children forever.

In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

that is the epitome of selfishness.

Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

Wetsy " doll.

Best,

~CJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Cj I think most of us here would be hard pressed to disagree with some parts

of your analysis. But the timing of this discussion lacks some empathetic

compassion.

The mothers/grandmothers on this list are standup dedicated, thoughtful,

insightful mothers. Let us not do or say anything that adds to their pain.

Their lives have been altered dramatically. They have not failed their

daughters or their grand children. They are stepping into the reality, a

difficult reality, well aware, well informed and doing their utmost to

bravely continue to parent and grandparent. I have the deepest regard and

respect for you new grandmothers. Who among us can do anything other than

praise you and want to offer our support. None of us would want to walk in

your shoes. Many of us will, inspite of our best proactive mothering.

.. The new mothers here should not be labeled as inadequate to the task.

Many of us had mothers without " disability " who fell far short of the ideal.

I feel indignant that you are making these statements about these fine

women on our list. Jay

-- Ethical issues and pregnancy

I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

and birth a child.

As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

providing for even its most basic needs.

Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

and child will require?

To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

essentially keeps them children forever.

In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

that is the epitome of selfishness.

Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

Wetsy " doll.

Best,

~CJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Cj I think most of us here would be hard pressed to disagree with some parts

of your analysis. But the timing of this discussion lacks some empathetic

compassion.

The mothers/grandmothers on this list are standup dedicated, thoughtful,

insightful mothers. Let us not do or say anything that adds to their pain.

Their lives have been altered dramatically. They have not failed their

daughters or their grand children. They are stepping into the reality, a

difficult reality, well aware, well informed and doing their utmost to

bravely continue to parent and grandparent. I have the deepest regard and

respect for you new grandmothers. Who among us can do anything other than

praise you and want to offer our support. None of us would want to walk in

your shoes. Many of us will, inspite of our best proactive mothering.

.. The new mothers here should not be labeled as inadequate to the task.

Many of us had mothers without " disability " who fell far short of the ideal.

I feel indignant that you are making these statements about these fine

women on our list. Jay

-- Ethical issues and pregnancy

I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

and birth a child.

As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

providing for even its most basic needs.

Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

and child will require?

To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

essentially keeps them children forever.

In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

that is the epitome of selfishness.

Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

Wetsy " doll.

Best,

~CJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Exactly. Allie is 9, I have no idea where she will be at 16, 20, 30 yrs old. In

some ways I would have expected her to be higher functioning by now, in other

ways I'm amazed at how well she's doing. What I have to remind myself is that

what I always expected the " right " way to be isn't always the only way to be.

Sondra is living proof of how able adult women with autism can be. And Kassi,

and a lot of other adults with autism. For me the important thing is that I'm

honest with myself and I don't hold her back out of my own fears.

Debi

>

>

> my daughter would be classed as high functioning, she can talk, though not

have conversation. she can shower, toilet, brush hair, dress...........will

never drive, i wouldnt let her cross a road by herself, and being able to buy

groceries on her own and work money out...maybe in time. So how does one class

what kind of autism our children have? i agree deb, makes it darn hard doesn't

it. what i see is hannah being almost easy to care for, others would find an

absolute nightmare.

>

>

>

> Cheryl S [chez]

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Exactly. Allie is 9, I have no idea where she will be at 16, 20, 30 yrs old. In

some ways I would have expected her to be higher functioning by now, in other

ways I'm amazed at how well she's doing. What I have to remind myself is that

what I always expected the " right " way to be isn't always the only way to be.

Sondra is living proof of how able adult women with autism can be. And Kassi,

and a lot of other adults with autism. For me the important thing is that I'm

honest with myself and I don't hold her back out of my own fears.

Debi

>

>

> my daughter would be classed as high functioning, she can talk, though not

have conversation. she can shower, toilet, brush hair, dress...........will

never drive, i wouldnt let her cross a road by herself, and being able to buy

groceries on her own and work money out...maybe in time. So how does one class

what kind of autism our children have? i agree deb, makes it darn hard doesn't

it. what i see is hannah being almost easy to care for, others would find an

absolute nightmare.

>

>

>

> Cheryl S [chez]

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Exactly. Allie is 9, I have no idea where she will be at 16, 20, 30 yrs old. In

some ways I would have expected her to be higher functioning by now, in other

ways I'm amazed at how well she's doing. What I have to remind myself is that

what I always expected the " right " way to be isn't always the only way to be.

Sondra is living proof of how able adult women with autism can be. And Kassi,

and a lot of other adults with autism. For me the important thing is that I'm

honest with myself and I don't hold her back out of my own fears.

Debi

>

>

> my daughter would be classed as high functioning, she can talk, though not

have conversation. she can shower, toilet, brush hair, dress...........will

never drive, i wouldnt let her cross a road by herself, and being able to buy

groceries on her own and work money out...maybe in time. So how does one class

what kind of autism our children have? i agree deb, makes it darn hard doesn't

it. what i see is hannah being almost easy to care for, others would find an

absolute nightmare.

>

>

>

> Cheryl S [chez]

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Debi wrote:

<< CJ, I'm not sure to whom you are referring or your definition of

" severely autistic. " Example being one could be quite bright, aware, and

able yet be completely unable to speak words. Some may see a woman in

this capacity as " severe " while others may see her as mild. Yet other

women may appear " mild " in being able to be quite conversational or have

little/no behaviors associated with autism yet have very low cognitive

abilities. >>

I'm not referring to anyone in particular, Debi. The macro issue is

what I consider important, not any one person's situation.

Not being able to speak words is one thing. That's more similar to

being blind or deaf, IMO. Not a big deal, provided the cognitive

abilities to understand adult concepts are there.

Seriously, if one is incapable of understanding adult concepts in an

adult manner, how can they be expected to handle adult responsibilities?

<< I get from your post your assumption that any woman with autism has

no ability to consent to sex. >>

Not at all, Debi. See my comment about adult concepts and

responsibilities above.

<< I find it interesting that you are willing to state it's okay for

those with Asperger Syndrome to be sexually active/parent children but

not those with full-blown autism diagnoses. The only difference in those

two diagnoses is the absence or presence of speech delay. >>

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. IMX, there is a world of difference (by

degree) between those with classic autism and AS.

Most AS folks I've encountered can function reasonably well as adults.

They can sign contracts and understand the ramifications of their

actions. They know what it means to consent to sex. Provided they have

a job, most are capable of living independently.

This is hardly the case for most people with classic autism, especially

those who view the world through a childlike lens and require the

protection of a caregiver for their every need.

<< You certainly have a right to your opinion. That said, you are one

person and do not have the right to decide the fertility of every other

female. >>

Of course I don't. There is also no reason to get all defensive, since

I don't make the rules. ;)

However, the law *does* have something to say about a person's ability

to consent in this area.

And I have no doubt that the line has been crossed in plenty of

situations by well-intentioned caregivers who deeply desire a grandchild

at any cost, and who prefer to live in denial about the mental capacity

of their dependent daughters.

Best,

~CJ

P.S. I relayed my concerns about this ethical consent dilemma to

several other listservs devoted to HFA and AS. The responses I received

from both parents and non-parents alike were vastly in favor of

contacting the adult equivalent of CPS with respect to the caregivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Debi wrote:

<< CJ, I'm not sure to whom you are referring or your definition of

" severely autistic. " Example being one could be quite bright, aware, and

able yet be completely unable to speak words. Some may see a woman in

this capacity as " severe " while others may see her as mild. Yet other

women may appear " mild " in being able to be quite conversational or have

little/no behaviors associated with autism yet have very low cognitive

abilities. >>

I'm not referring to anyone in particular, Debi. The macro issue is

what I consider important, not any one person's situation.

Not being able to speak words is one thing. That's more similar to

being blind or deaf, IMO. Not a big deal, provided the cognitive

abilities to understand adult concepts are there.

Seriously, if one is incapable of understanding adult concepts in an

adult manner, how can they be expected to handle adult responsibilities?

<< I get from your post your assumption that any woman with autism has

no ability to consent to sex. >>

Not at all, Debi. See my comment about adult concepts and

responsibilities above.

<< I find it interesting that you are willing to state it's okay for

those with Asperger Syndrome to be sexually active/parent children but

not those with full-blown autism diagnoses. The only difference in those

two diagnoses is the absence or presence of speech delay. >>

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. IMX, there is a world of difference (by

degree) between those with classic autism and AS.

Most AS folks I've encountered can function reasonably well as adults.

They can sign contracts and understand the ramifications of their

actions. They know what it means to consent to sex. Provided they have

a job, most are capable of living independently.

This is hardly the case for most people with classic autism, especially

those who view the world through a childlike lens and require the

protection of a caregiver for their every need.

<< You certainly have a right to your opinion. That said, you are one

person and do not have the right to decide the fertility of every other

female. >>

Of course I don't. There is also no reason to get all defensive, since

I don't make the rules. ;)

However, the law *does* have something to say about a person's ability

to consent in this area.

And I have no doubt that the line has been crossed in plenty of

situations by well-intentioned caregivers who deeply desire a grandchild

at any cost, and who prefer to live in denial about the mental capacity

of their dependent daughters.

Best,

~CJ

P.S. I relayed my concerns about this ethical consent dilemma to

several other listservs devoted to HFA and AS. The responses I received

from both parents and non-parents alike were vastly in favor of

contacting the adult equivalent of CPS with respect to the caregivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Debi wrote:

<< CJ, I'm not sure to whom you are referring or your definition of

" severely autistic. " Example being one could be quite bright, aware, and

able yet be completely unable to speak words. Some may see a woman in

this capacity as " severe " while others may see her as mild. Yet other

women may appear " mild " in being able to be quite conversational or have

little/no behaviors associated with autism yet have very low cognitive

abilities. >>

I'm not referring to anyone in particular, Debi. The macro issue is

what I consider important, not any one person's situation.

Not being able to speak words is one thing. That's more similar to

being blind or deaf, IMO. Not a big deal, provided the cognitive

abilities to understand adult concepts are there.

Seriously, if one is incapable of understanding adult concepts in an

adult manner, how can they be expected to handle adult responsibilities?

<< I get from your post your assumption that any woman with autism has

no ability to consent to sex. >>

Not at all, Debi. See my comment about adult concepts and

responsibilities above.

<< I find it interesting that you are willing to state it's okay for

those with Asperger Syndrome to be sexually active/parent children but

not those with full-blown autism diagnoses. The only difference in those

two diagnoses is the absence or presence of speech delay. >>

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. IMX, there is a world of difference (by

degree) between those with classic autism and AS.

Most AS folks I've encountered can function reasonably well as adults.

They can sign contracts and understand the ramifications of their

actions. They know what it means to consent to sex. Provided they have

a job, most are capable of living independently.

This is hardly the case for most people with classic autism, especially

those who view the world through a childlike lens and require the

protection of a caregiver for their every need.

<< You certainly have a right to your opinion. That said, you are one

person and do not have the right to decide the fertility of every other

female. >>

Of course I don't. There is also no reason to get all defensive, since

I don't make the rules. ;)

However, the law *does* have something to say about a person's ability

to consent in this area.

And I have no doubt that the line has been crossed in plenty of

situations by well-intentioned caregivers who deeply desire a grandchild

at any cost, and who prefer to live in denial about the mental capacity

of their dependent daughters.

Best,

~CJ

P.S. I relayed my concerns about this ethical consent dilemma to

several other listservs devoted to HFA and AS. The responses I received

from both parents and non-parents alike were vastly in favor of

contacting the adult equivalent of CPS with respect to the caregivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Akari BLue wrote:

<< And it was proved to me that I could not handle becoming pregnant,

giving birth, or properly caring for a child. I can't even remember to

take my medications for my asthma every day, much less anything else

more demanding. That's why I got the IUD, specifically. For five years I

cannot get pregnant, and there is nothing to forget.

It isn't fair to subject a baby to neglect just because I can't care for

it properly. It might be less a problem if I had someone really taking

care of me, but even then it would not be fair. >>

Akari, you sound like a very responsible young woman who understands her

strengths and limitations.

Kudos to you for making a careful selection of birth control. The IUD

is now a much better option than it was when I first became sexually active.

Back then I used the Pill. After I married, my husband got a vasectomy.

Some years later I had my tubes tied. Got a cool video too! LOL

Best,

~CJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Akari BLue wrote:

<< And it was proved to me that I could not handle becoming pregnant,

giving birth, or properly caring for a child. I can't even remember to

take my medications for my asthma every day, much less anything else

more demanding. That's why I got the IUD, specifically. For five years I

cannot get pregnant, and there is nothing to forget.

It isn't fair to subject a baby to neglect just because I can't care for

it properly. It might be less a problem if I had someone really taking

care of me, but even then it would not be fair. >>

Akari, you sound like a very responsible young woman who understands her

strengths and limitations.

Kudos to you for making a careful selection of birth control. The IUD

is now a much better option than it was when I first became sexually active.

Back then I used the Pill. After I married, my husband got a vasectomy.

Some years later I had my tubes tied. Got a cool video too! LOL

Best,

~CJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

No one is in a better position to determine their ASD daughter's capability for

independent living than the mother that raised them. It is not our business,

period.

BTW it is also not our place to determine if it's in the best interests of a

child to be born to a mother that is disabled or at high risk for birth defects.

My guess is most would be grateful to be given the chance at life and the

opportunity to love and be loved.

Kiara (born to a disabled mother)

>

>

>

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

> of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

> of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

> children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

>

> These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

> consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

> ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

> maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

> of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

> process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

> severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

> providing for even its most basic needs.

>

> Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

> terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

> the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

> their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

> perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

> them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

> they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

>

> I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

> grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

> about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

> whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

> additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

> and child will require?

>

> To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

> those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

> essentially keeps them children forever.

>

> In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

> feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

> becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

> placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

> the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

> alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

> that is the epitome of selfishness.

>

> Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

> age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

> containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

> not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

> of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

>

> Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

> dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

> be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

> Wetsy " doll.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

No one is in a better position to determine their ASD daughter's capability for

independent living than the mother that raised them. It is not our business,

period.

BTW it is also not our place to determine if it's in the best interests of a

child to be born to a mother that is disabled or at high risk for birth defects.

My guess is most would be grateful to be given the chance at life and the

opportunity to love and be loved.

Kiara (born to a disabled mother)

>

>

>

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

> of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

> of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

> children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

>

> These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

> consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

> ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

> maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

> of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

> process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

> severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

> providing for even its most basic needs.

>

> Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

> terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

> the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

> their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

> perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

> them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

> they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

>

> I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

> grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

> about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

> whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

> additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

> and child will require?

>

> To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

> those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

> essentially keeps them children forever.

>

> In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

> feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

> becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

> placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

> the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

> alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

> that is the epitome of selfishness.

>

> Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

> age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

> containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

> not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

> of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

>

> Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

> dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

> be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

> Wetsy " doll.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

No one is in a better position to determine their ASD daughter's capability for

independent living than the mother that raised them. It is not our business,

period.

BTW it is also not our place to determine if it's in the best interests of a

child to be born to a mother that is disabled or at high risk for birth defects.

My guess is most would be grateful to be given the chance at life and the

opportunity to love and be loved.

Kiara (born to a disabled mother)

>

>

>

> I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

> who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

> and birth a child.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

> of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

> of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

> children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

>

> These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

> consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

> ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

> maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

>

> As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

> of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

> process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

> severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

> providing for even its most basic needs.

>

> Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

> terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

> the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

> their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

> perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

> them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

> they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

>

> I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

> grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

> about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

> whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

> additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

> and child will require?

>

> To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

> those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

> essentially keeps them children forever.

>

> In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

> feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

> becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

> placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

> the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

> alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

> that is the epitome of selfishness.

>

> Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

> age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

> containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

> not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

> of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

>

> Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

> dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

> be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

> Wetsy " doll.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

TY, Jay. I stopped concerning myself with anyone else's judgment years ago. Katy

was a gift to us. God trusts me with her care and I will answer to Him. I was

told by the psychologist that Katy was PDD. I was told that in her mid twenties

she would begin to function fairly normally. She has several girlfriends who are

not autistic. Two are married and have become mothers.. One is unmarried and

recently gave birth to triplets. Katy wanted what every girl her age wants. She

wanted a romantic relationship and yes, she wanted to be a mother. She began

dating her B/F 2 years ago. After a year, she asked me about sex. I educated

her. I had a frank discussion with her and her boyfriend which included a

package of condoms and directions for consistent use. I also got her a

prescription for birth control. She was to begin taking it the day she got her

next period. That day did not come. I later learned that the two of them had

decided to become pregnant shortly

after I educated them on how pregnancy occurs. Stupid me. My H and I have

always taken the stance that Katy can do anything she reaches to do. We have

never told her she is unable. Sure, we could be wrong but we are not God. We do

not have the right to tell her she cannot be a mother. She is capable of many

things. Indeed, she has often surpassed our expectations. Honestly, I think for

anyone to say she should not be permitted to be a mother is discrimination. She

is disabled. She is still human. She is still entitled to hopes and dreams, a

chance to live her life without the judgment of others. ~~~Aggy

________________________________

To: Autism_in_Girls_and_Women

Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 11:39:30 PM

Subject: Re: Ethical issues and pregnancy

Cj I think most of us here would be hard pressed to disagree with some parts

of your analysis. But the timing of this discussion lacks some empathetic

compassion..

The mothers/grandmother s on this list are standup dedicated, thoughtful,

insightful mothers. Let us not do or say anything that adds to their pain.

Their lives have been altered dramatically. They have not failed their

daughters or their grand children. They are stepping into the reality, a

difficult reality, well aware, well informed and doing their utmost to

bravely continue to parent and grandparent. I have the deepest regard and

respect for you new grandmothers. Who among us can do anything other than

praise you and want to offer our support. None of us would want to walk in

your shoes. Many of us will, inspite of our best proactive mothering.

.. The new mothers here should not be labeled as inadequate to the task.

Many of us had mothers without " disability " who fell far short of the ideal.

I feel indignant that you are making these statements about these fine

women on our list. Jay

-- [Autism_in_Girls_ and_Women] Ethical issues and pregnancy

I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

and birth a child.

As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

consent to sexual activity with anyone.. They do not understand the

ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

providing for even its most basic needs.

Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

and child will require?

To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

essentially keeps them children forever.

In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

that is the epitome of selfishness.

Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

Wetsy " doll.

Best,

~CJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Katy is not low-functioning. She is human and has a right to the pursuit of

happiness. I will support her in whatever decisions she makes in life. I know

plenty of non-disabled mums who are far worse mums than our daughter could ever

be. ~~~Aggy

________________________________

To: Autism_in_Girls_and_Women

Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 11:00:11 PM

Subject: Ethical issues and pregnancy

I'm experiencing some disturbing ethical issues regarding those mothers

who allow their (low-functioning) autistic daughters to become pregnant

and birth a child.

As I'm reading your posts, these autistic daughters seem barely capable

of feeding themselves and maintaining a relationship, let alone capable

of independent living. By their own mothers' admission, they are young

children -- except in their ability to become pregnant.

These severely autistic daughters would not seem to have the capacity to

consent to sexual activity with anyone. They do not understand the

ramifications of such a decision, nor do they have the emotional

maturity to deal with the consequences of their actions.

As I'm reading your posts, these daughters do not understand the concept

of prenatal and ob/gyn care, and may find both these and the birth

process to be traumatic beyond measure. To add insult to injury, these

severely autistic women are incapable of caring for a newborn and

providing for even its most basic needs..

Now, I do understand that many people have moral issues about

terminating a pregnancy, so I won't go there. But what about recognizing

the realities here, and at a minimum expect that caregivers maintain

their autistic female dependents on some method of birth control? And

perhaps monitor their autistic daughter's social life so as to prevent

them from being taken advantage of sexually or making decisions that

they are not equipped to make? If you do not protect them, who will?

I honestly do not believe that everyone is entitled to have a child (or

grandchild) simply because the technology exists for them to do so. What

about the welfare of the child? What about the burden on caregivers to

whom the responsibility of raising that child may fall? What about the

additional costs to the taxpayers in terms of the resources that mother

and child will require?

To be clear, I'm not referring to those with Asperger's Syndrome, but

those women who suffer from a more classic form of autism, one which

essentially keeps them children forever.

In case you think that I'm trying to limit the rights of autistics, I

feel very much the same about those neurotypical women who insist on

becoming pregnant at an age where their eggs are barely viable, thereby

placing their unborn children at risk for severe birth defects. Or, at

the very least, subjecting that child to graduating from high school all

alone, because they are now far too elderly to make the trip. To me,

that is the epitome of selfishness.

Then there is the spina bifida issue. Ladies, if you are of childbearing

age and have the capacity to become pregnant, please take a multivitamin

containing folic acid so as not to place your unborn child (unplanned or

not) at risk for spina bifida. No excuses please -- in the vast majority

of cases, neural tube defects are totally preventable.

Off my soapbox for now. I am just so upset that a mother would allow her

dependent autistic daughter to become pregnant, when that daughter may

be barely able to distinguish between a newborn human child and a " Betsy

Wetsy " doll.

Best,

~CJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...