Re: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's Speech

September 14, 2009

http://www.medicine-no.com/ more on the drug mfg.

Subject: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's SpeechTo: Rife Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 9:32 PM

Most people in the U.S. that are insured are still at great financial risk. There are many exclusions, co-pays, fine print, etc., and all too often in this country one is compelled to litigate with an insurance company to get the coverage they paid for. Lately there have been stories in our news media about new proposed governmental/ private insurance type O'Bama care death boards who will decide, based upon age and economic circumstances who shall receive coverage and those who will not. Shocking isn't it! Guess what, these boards already exist, they are the gate keeppers that answer the phone at the insurance company. Before anyone can use their insurance (outside of emergencies) they must obtain permission. Its a cruel joke to be sure. But that is the present state of medical insurance coverage in this country. Knowing that I will fall between the cracks anyway, I canceled my health coverage years ago as I would lose in the end anyway

regardless whether I was covered by insurance or not.Our citizens have foolishly repeatedly re-elected politicians who have made careers out of taking bribes and playing favorites with the industries they are supposed to regulate. The present situation in our country is the same as it was in the wild west movies the world has so enjoyed for the better part of a half century. The scenery has changed, of course, the mode of transportation differs greatly but the six shooter is alive and well and is commonly carried by our citizens on the streets now concealed, of course, the purpose for carrying a weapon for one's protection is still required because we tolerate crime and elect representatives who do nothing about it. Our prisons are full of petty drug dealers who compete with our elite in the drug industry taking up valuable space for violent repeat offenders who are turned back out onto the streets because there isn't room for them in the

over-crowded prison system. The United States incarcerates more of its citizens than any other country in the world. You see Guantanamo, I see it everywhere here. FEMA now has over 800 idle concentration camps manned and ready for civil unrest that our leaders have anticipated when they attack us again as they did on 09/11/2001. Almost 50% of our population has indicated that they know the attack on the World Trance Center was an inside job. Our health care system is owned and operated by organized crime. There are no cures here, no one gets what the cure they think they are paying for and even if somehow such care would be provided free to all our citizens as it should, the possibility of surviving any medical encounter whether or not insured is dismal at best. If I could afford to leave America, I would. Living in our health system is a grandiose game of Russian roulette. Carmi Hazen> >> > Why in the world do you think that $430 a month is any bargain for your > > health care? This absolutely blows my mind. Why should a man of your > > age really think that $5000 a year to take care of your health is justified?> > > > That is like not insuring your car because you have not had an accident yet. It will catch up with you some time.> > Sure, I mainly use Rife and natural medicine (which is partly covered by my health

plan), but you never know when you might need emergency treatment or some expensive therapy. > > I am quite happy to pay those dues and have piece of mind. Compared to the kind of charges quoted for the USA with limited cover, it sounds like I have a great deal.> > I have had a few times when I have needed the health cover and was always happy with the quality and speed of the system here.> > Regards> > >

September 15, 2009

I rest my case as you haven't a clue of what you have paid for what you

have received. I am very glad that you are pleased with your

"contributions". I was never raised to expect nothing for something

even in the land of, "life is not fair". I am just not "social" enough

to expect nothing from something.

However, , I apparently struck a nerve and that is wonderful as

maybe you will get your head out of the sand and start looking around.

Your friend may be one in a million and is of no consequence to the

statistics. However, in the US, had she been a school teacher, her US

insurance would probably have done exactly what your German insurance

did. I cannot remember anyone that I have known that was sued by a

hospital and lost their home, their car and their job. However, I am

sure it does happen.

Now to the good part. Mark Sept 14, 2011 on your calendar as you and I

never need to communicate again until then as you are wasting my time

and I am wasting your time as you love socialism and I want no part of

it.

In two years I will check in so you can tell me how everything is still

wonderful. Whether you believe it or not, Germany will and is being

caught up badly in the world recession and you will not be able to

afford all of the wonderful things from yesteryear to which you have

become so accustomed as to not even be interested enough to check to

see what is being taken from your income monthly and how it is being

used.

One of my financial advisers has a first name of Claus. Any ideas of

where he lives? I must tell Claus that he is very misguided and he is

too expensive as I do expect something for something.

Think your German exports were down 21% Jan 2009 compared to Jan 2008

Think your German exports were down 25% Jul 2009 compared to Jul 2008

Think your exports are about half of your total GDP.

China is slowly walking right around you to become #1 in world

exports. They may have passed you by but, right now, it is nip and

tuck but they have the cash from all of the trinkets they sold to

Americans who used their homes as ATM machines filled by your German

banks who loaned the Americans the money in mortgage pools.

Asia has already caught on. They don't take US $100 bills on the

street right now. They want Euros. That tells me of big problems on

the horizon for the US dollar and the US bonds. Wonder how many

billion of US dollars are on the German Bank books? I would think the

dying German car market in the US alone was huge and must still have a

very large debt in US dollars still on the books.

In two years, we will know won't we.

However, I must get back to my fear mongering (actually a full time job

if done correctly) so will close for now and will check you on Sep 14,

2011. In the meantime, have a two year sabbatical from Harvey and you

should be able to double your productivity as you will only have to

worry about . You may even be able to take a part time job where

they pay you nothing for something and give your wages to some other

German guys who don't want to work. Works for you but not for me.

H.

PS. I looked at our past exchange and did not have the heart to snip

it as some of the members may have missed part of it. I'll let you

snip it as you moderate. Maybe you and I will still be able to "amaze"

each other in two years!

rife_forum wrote:

Harvey,

Your misunderstanding of life in Germany never ceases to amaze me.

I will keep this short as I have work to do.

To your question as to how much I have paid and how much I have drawn

out of the health fund is difficult to answer. As a patient, you never

get to see the bills as the doctor gets paid directly by the insurance

fund. Therefore my answer is no idea and I do not particularly care. I

have not needed a doctor in the past few years, but I do not regret the

money I pay. The following true story explains why:

The following happened to a friend of mine. She is a widowed school

teacher and lives alone in her house. I have known her as a friend for

years and she was always fit, slim and energetic, almost never ill.

Then one Monday I spoke to her on the phone and she was telling me

about headaches which were unusual as, like me, she never suffers from

them. I called her again on Wednesday afternoon and I obviously woke

her up. Instead of her usual cheerful self, talking in near perfect

English, she was struggling to get the words out. I said she could

speak to me in German instead, but that was no better. She was just as

surprised as I was. I told her I was coming around and she should get

dressed and to the door. When I got there, she could hardly walk. I

took her to her doctor who diagnosed a stroke. I was instructed to get

her to hospital immediately which I did.

After treatment, she was able to speak again normally and apparently I

had caught her just in time to avoid any permanent damage. All the

same, she was in hospital for months and could not work again for

almost a year. Despite this, her health insurance picked up all the

medical costs, paid her lost wages and covered everything she needed to

recover. She did not have to fight for her insurance cover, it was

automatically granted based on her doctors diagnosis. She did not

suffer financially due to this and still owns her house, car, etc. What

would have happened if she was in America with no or poor cover. Would

she still own her own home I ask you?

As to the unemployment insurance. Sure it costs a little money each

month (about 50 Euros I believe), but then again that gives me two

years at almost the same amount of money as I would receive from my

employer plus covering all medical and pension insurance premiums.

Anyone still unemployed after two years then gets a reduced benefit

which is then means tested. Basically, if you go unemployed in Germany

(provided you have been employed in the first place to qualify) you do

have enough time to find a new job. Now I am sure you think this system

must be more than bankrupt, particularly in the current crisis!

Actually it is also running at a surplus and is self financing. Like

health insurance, it is government regulated, but self financing

through the insurance premiums.

Here in Germany, you will find that most people actually want to work

and most people are not out of work for long. Sure, there are some

people who are long term unemployed and there may even be some who are

too lazy to work. But you will find those in every country.

My personal situation is a little different. I worked for a large

corporation for 26 years before taking voluntary redundancy a few years

ago to go self-employed (Grayfield Optical, etc.). That unemployment

insurance still paid me for over two years to help me financially while

my company got started up. I still pay my premiums so that if my

company should ever fold, I am entitled to that same cover. By the way

it is not socialism, but an insurance. You have to pay in to be able to

get money out when you need it.

If you class insurance as "socialism", then surely America is a very

socialist country?

It is systems like this which has helped Germany survive the current

economic climate much better than other countries. As Germany exports

much more than it imports, the economy is already picking up again

nicely.

The German car industry is still going more or less strong. The German

unions are powerful here, but they do work actively to ensure the

companies work well with a minimum in redundancies. Germany uses high

tech to increase productivity and keep industry running.

"Made in Germany" still has an excellent reputation whereas Chinese

goods are seen to be often unreliable. Germany does a lot of business

providing the industrial tools for factories in places like China.

Sure Germany does consume natural resources, yet exports high-tech

goods and services. Do not worry about Germany, it is the USA which

consumes masses of natural resources and exports little in return.

When I read the other comments you make about Germany, I do not see

anything I would associate with Germany, but rather with the ailing

American economy.

Is it not the federal reserve which is printing more and more dollars

to pay for your ever increasing debts, thereby reducing the value of

the dollar.

Here in Germany, the people have hardly felt the world crisis, compared

with what I have heard from other countries. Real value comes not from

printing money, but from creating real goods and services and Germany

is good at that.

Germany has been through enough crisis in the past and that is why all

the systems here are built around solid foundations which is helping

Germany survive better than most. It is the world's third largest

economy after all.

All I can see is that you are full of ideas about Germany which have

nothing to do with the reality I see here today.

I will not put any more of my time into answering your prejudices and

fear-mongering. Do your own research, rather than listening to right

wing propaganda which I seem to be hearing from you.

I must now get back to work as I have an important newsletter to get

out and discussions like this are just holding me up. Between you and

, I am behind schedule on what I should be doing with my time.

Regards

Moderator

> >

> > Hi Harvey,

> > sounds like you are being reckless with taking risks. sure,

it can pay

> > off for a number of years, but you never know when you will

really

> > need it.

> >

> > Here in Germany, car (if you have one that is) and health

insurance

> > are required. If you are earning money, it will cost you

14.9% of your

> > earnings (

> >

> > .

> >

>

September 15, 2009

H.

I think you don't understand. Germany and Japan have not been fighting wars and they have not sold off their industry. The bad guys that we thought the US and allies defeated in WW2, were invited and came to the US to work to continue their world domination and control. They probably now have a military program, along with their allies, Japan that has technology that excels the US bombers and shockers. Presently, they still use the US and Israel to fight their wars. Notice that they don't get involved. Notice that Germany and Japan have the auto industry. Our auto industry cooperated with them.

Check out www.senderberl.com and maybe at least read one of the books they have published.

The german people know to buy gold.

sherry

Re: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's Speech

:I do not insure my cars as I can afford the loss. I do not insure my home as I can afford the loss. I carry lots of liability to protect me from the thieves as I cannot shoot them.However, you totally skipped my question. I asked you how much you had received in actual services for the $5000 a year you have been "donating" to the system. Have you donated $50,000 for which you have received $1429 or what?.It would appear to me that your German system is one size fits all. From each according to his ability; to each according to his need. This is one of those "isms" if I remember correctly. Is Germany broke? Is Germany printing money like crazy as their government cannot afford to run like it has been running? Has the bailing out of all of the EU countries so strapped Germany that they cannot afford your present health care system? If so, it might be that even your $5000 a year will soon not be enough and you may be only drawing down $567 a year. I just would not feel good about throwing $5000 after $500 with the carrot of, "some of these days, I will get old and then I will get it all back". This might make you feel comfortable but it sure would not make me feel comfortable as I have never been in a socialist country.Moving right along to your old home. UK banks gave their money to Iceland because Iceland promised larger returns than they could get elsewhere. UK used to rule the world. UK has a population of 1/5th that of the US or 60 million or so. Iceland has a population of 300,000 or about like our Albuquerque New Mexico. It think UK just said, Ooops and passed the loss to the citizens of UK. UK must also be broke. You are very familiar with the health care system of UK. Do you think they can afford their present health care system. It would appear to me that they cannot afford anything.They are also broke but the citizenry does not know it., your ism health care plans are running in countries that are broke just like the US is broke. They cannot afford these systems. They are broke and they will have to be fixed as they are not sustainable in a collapsing world economy.They were not even sustainable in the last 20 years of ever expanding economy built on perception rather than productivity.Germany is broke. UK is broke. The US is broke.Health Care is a monstrous part of all three of these countries' total budgets.None of the three can afford their present systems. It does not matter what has been in the past. It matters as to where will the money come from and it cannot come from printing presses. It must come from productivity where something is being made to sell to someone else outside of your country be it Germany, UK or the US.The thinking right now is rooted in the past 20 years and that is shear folly.H.rife_forum wrote:

>> Why in the world do you think that $430 a month is any bargain for your > health care? This absolutely blows my mind. Why should a man of your > age really think that $5000 a year to take care of your health is justified?> That is like not insuring your car because you have not had an accident yet. It will catch up with you some time.Sure, I mainly use Rife and natural medicine (which is partly covered by my health plan), but you never know when you might need emergency treatment or some expensive therapy. I am quite happy to pay those dues and have piece of mind. Compared to the kind of charges quoted for the USA with limited cover, it sounds like I have a great deal.I have had a few times when I have needed the health cover and was always happy with the quality and speed of the system here.Regards

September 15, 2009

BUT how is OBAMA going to PAY for the us plan ?? raise TAXES MORE & PRINTMORE MONEY??

like every thing he has done in the last 8 month??

roger

Subject: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's SpeechTo: Rife Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 5:32 AM

Harvey,Just very briefly. Whereas the UK health system in a kind of "socialist medicine" as you would define it, the German system is a two level (public and private) insurance based system.Obama's proposals are much closer to the German model than to the UK model, yet how often is the German model talked about in the US media? Could it be that the German health system is too close to Obama's proposals and works too well to be useful as a negative example by those who stand to lose profits from such a system in the USA.Have a look at this link for a fairer discussion on the German system from an American (PBS) point of view:http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ pages/frontline/ sickaroundthewor ld/interviews/ lauterbach. htmlPerhaps you consider all insurance to be "socialism" and that is why you have so

little of it personally. The basic principle is that all pay into a common fund and those that have a loss are compensated out of that fund. I suppose if the fund (insurance company) makes a profit, they are "capitalist" and if they are non-profit, they are "socialist" in your world. For the customer, the difference is that the "capitalist" version is always more expensive, as you have to pay the extra for the profits, and they have an interest in denying claims as that maximizes profit - the customer loses out on both. That is why the current US health system is the most expensive system, yet cannot even provide basic cover for all its own people.The German people are much more orientated towards being safe and probably do have more insurance of all kinds than in other countries. And yes, the German's know all about Gold as well.If what happened to my friend was just one in a million, then only about 80 people in Germany would suffer

from such expensive fates and Germany would only need one hospital for those 80 people. Somehow, I think the likelihood of needing such insurance is much much higher than that.As to the standards of living dropping in Germany. That has already happened. When Germany became reunited with the drop of the Berlin wall, the rich capitalist West Germany took on the bankrupt communist East Germany and had to pay a lot for rebuilding their infrastructure, that real communism had neglected since WWII. That has been a tremendous strain on the economy and has resulted in a loss in the standard of living as the taxes had to go up to pay for it all. If there is a country in this world which truly understands the differences between capitalism and communism, it is Germany!!!Believe me, the differences are NOT defined by whether health insurance is for everybody and makes a profit or not!!!Germans have already learned very well how to handle

recessions. Historically they have been through enough of them and they are handling this one much better than most countries. Sure, they have been affected and exports were down, but are recovering already.I think there has been enough said and we should now close this discussion.RegardsModerator> > > >> > > >> > > > Hi Harvey,> > > > sounds like you are being reckless with taking risks. sure, it can > > pay> > > > off for a number of years, but you never know when you will really> > > > need it.> > > >> > > > Here in Germany, car (if you have one that is) and health insurance> > > > are required. If you are earning money, it will cost you 14.9% of > > your> >

> > earnings (> > > >> > > > .> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>

September 15, 2009

BUT how is OBAMA going to PAY for the us plan ?? raise TAXES MORE & PRINTMORE MONEY??

like every thing he has done in the last 8 month??

roger

Subject: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's SpeechTo: Rife Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 5:32 AM

Harvey,Just very briefly. Whereas the UK health system in a kind of "socialist medicine" as you would define it, the German system is a two level (public and private) insurance based system.Obama's proposals are much closer to the German model than to the UK model, yet how often is the German model talked about in the US media? Could it be that the German health system is too close to Obama's proposals and works too well to be useful as a negative example by those who stand to lose profits from such a system in the USA.Have a look at this link for a fairer discussion on the German system from an American (PBS) point of view:http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ pages/frontline/ sickaroundthewor ld/interviews/ lauterbach. htmlPerhaps you consider all insurance to be "socialism" and that is why you have so

little of it personally. The basic principle is that all pay into a common fund and those that have a loss are compensated out of that fund. I suppose if the fund (insurance company) makes a profit, they are "capitalist" and if they are non-profit, they are "socialist" in your world. For the customer, the difference is that the "capitalist" version is always more expensive, as you have to pay the extra for the profits, and they have an interest in denying claims as that maximizes profit - the customer loses out on both. That is why the current US health system is the most expensive system, yet cannot even provide basic cover for all its own people.The German people are much more orientated towards being safe and probably do have more insurance of all kinds than in other countries. And yes, the German's know all about Gold as well.If what happened to my friend was just one in a million, then only about 80 people in Germany would suffer

from such expensive fates and Germany would only need one hospital for those 80 people. Somehow, I think the likelihood of needing such insurance is much much higher than that.As to the standards of living dropping in Germany. That has already happened. When Germany became reunited with the drop of the Berlin wall, the rich capitalist West Germany took on the bankrupt communist East Germany and had to pay a lot for rebuilding their infrastructure, that real communism had neglected since WWII. That has been a tremendous strain on the economy and has resulted in a loss in the standard of living as the taxes had to go up to pay for it all. If there is a country in this world which truly understands the differences between capitalism and communism, it is Germany!!!Believe me, the differences are NOT defined by whether health insurance is for everybody and makes a profit or not!!!Germans have already learned very well how to handle

recessions. Historically they have been through enough of them and they are handling this one much better than most countries. Sure, they have been affected and exports were down, but are recovering already.I think there has been enough said and we should now close this discussion.RegardsModerator> > > >> > > >> > > > Hi Harvey,> > > > sounds like you are being reckless with taking risks. sure, it can > > pay> > > > off for a number of years, but you never know when you will really> > > > need it.> > > >> > > > Here in Germany, car (if you have one that is) and health insurance> > > > are required. If you are earning money, it will cost you 14.9% of > > your> >

> > earnings (> > > >> > > > .> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>

September 15, 2009

BUT how is OBAMA going to PAY for the us plan ?? raise TAXES MORE & PRINTMORE MONEY??

like every thing he has done in the last 8 month??

roger

Subject: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's SpeechTo: Rife Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 5:32 AM

Harvey,Just very briefly. Whereas the UK health system in a kind of "socialist medicine" as you would define it, the German system is a two level (public and private) insurance based system.Obama's proposals are much closer to the German model than to the UK model, yet how often is the German model talked about in the US media? Could it be that the German health system is too close to Obama's proposals and works too well to be useful as a negative example by those who stand to lose profits from such a system in the USA.Have a look at this link for a fairer discussion on the German system from an American (PBS) point of view:http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ pages/frontline/ sickaroundthewor ld/interviews/ lauterbach. htmlPerhaps you consider all insurance to be "socialism" and that is why you have so

little of it personally. The basic principle is that all pay into a common fund and those that have a loss are compensated out of that fund. I suppose if the fund (insurance company) makes a profit, they are "capitalist" and if they are non-profit, they are "socialist" in your world. For the customer, the difference is that the "capitalist" version is always more expensive, as you have to pay the extra for the profits, and they have an interest in denying claims as that maximizes profit - the customer loses out on both. That is why the current US health system is the most expensive system, yet cannot even provide basic cover for all its own people.The German people are much more orientated towards being safe and probably do have more insurance of all kinds than in other countries. And yes, the German's know all about Gold as well.If what happened to my friend was just one in a million, then only about 80 people in Germany would suffer

from such expensive fates and Germany would only need one hospital for those 80 people. Somehow, I think the likelihood of needing such insurance is much much higher than that.As to the standards of living dropping in Germany. That has already happened. When Germany became reunited with the drop of the Berlin wall, the rich capitalist West Germany took on the bankrupt communist East Germany and had to pay a lot for rebuilding their infrastructure, that real communism had neglected since WWII. That has been a tremendous strain on the economy and has resulted in a loss in the standard of living as the taxes had to go up to pay for it all. If there is a country in this world which truly understands the differences between capitalism and communism, it is Germany!!!Believe me, the differences are NOT defined by whether health insurance is for everybody and makes a profit or not!!!Germans have already learned very well how to handle

recessions. Historically they have been through enough of them and they are handling this one much better than most countries. Sure, they have been affected and exports were down, but are recovering already.I think there has been enough said and we should now close this discussion.RegardsModerator> > > >> > > >> > > > Hi Harvey,> > > > sounds like you are being reckless with taking risks. sure, it can > > pay> > > > off for a number of years, but you never know when you will really> > > > need it.> > > >> > > > Here in Germany, car (if you have one that is) and health insurance> > > > are required. If you are earning money, it will cost you 14.9% of > > your> >

> > earnings (> > > >> > > > .> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>

September 15, 2009

, I can post to you but I have put on sabbatical for two

years so I cannot post to him. He will just have to ramble on by

talking to an answering himself.

I will tune him in again on Sept 14, 2011.

:

Moving forward into our future and picking up we will be obligated for

in our life times, each American is now on the hook for 1 million

dollars. If all future generations save 5% of their income, it will

take 400 years to pay for what is now on our plate if we locked it in

and froze it down. I really think we could have hyperinflation like

Germany did, have everything go to zero and have to eventually start

over.

Our great white hope is to have a pole shift in 2012 to wipe out 90% of

the population and the 10% remaining will be happy to fight over what

is left. This is a wild solution to the problem but not any more

bazaar than our present debt load. Either takes an insane mind to

appreciate.

Harvey

RRM wrote:

BUT how is OBAMA going to PAY for the us plan ?? raise

TAXES MORE & PRINT

MORE MONEY??

like every thing he has done in the last 8 month??

roger

From: rife_forum <rifeforumrife (DOT) de>

Subject: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's Speech

To: Rife

Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 5:32 AM

Harvey,

Just very briefly. Whereas the UK health system in a kind of "socialist

medicine" as you would define it, the German system is a two level

(public and private) insurance based system.

Obama's proposals are much closer to the German model than to the UK

model, yet how often is the German model talked about in the US media?

Could it be that the German health system is too close to Obama's

proposals and works too well to be useful as a negative example by

those who stand to lose profits from such a system in the USA.

Have a look at this link for a fairer discussion on the German system

from an American (PBS) point of view:

http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/

pages/frontline/ sickaroundthewor ld/interviews/ lauterbach. html

Perhaps you consider all insurance to be "socialism" and that is why

you have so little of it personally. The basic principle is that all

pay into a common fund and those that have a loss are compensated out

of that fund. I suppose if the fund (insurance company) makes a profit,

they are "capitalist" and if they are non-profit, they are "socialist"

in your world. For the customer, the difference is that the

"capitalist" version is always more expensive, as you have to pay the

extra for the profits, and they have an interest in denying claims as

that maximizes profit - the customer loses out on both. That is why the

current US health system is the most expensive system, yet cannot even

provide basic cover for all its own people.

The German people are much more orientated towards being safe and

probably do have more insurance of all kinds than in other countries.

And yes, the German's know all about Gold as well.

If what happened to my friend was just one in a million, then only

about 80 people in Germany would suffer from such expensive fates and

Germany would only need one hospital for those 80 people. Somehow, I

think the likelihood of needing such insurance is much much higher than

that.

As to the standards of living dropping in Germany. That has already

happened. When Germany became reunited with the drop of the Berlin

wall, the rich capitalist West Germany took on the bankrupt communist

East Germany and had to pay a lot for rebuilding their infrastructure,

that real communism had neglected since WWII. That has been a

tremendous strain on the economy and has resulted in a loss in the

standard of living as the taxes had to go up to pay for it all. If

there is a country in this world which truly understands the

differences between capitalism and communism, it is Germany!!!

Believe me, the differences are NOT defined by whether health insurance

is for everybody and makes a profit or not!!!

Germans have already learned very well how to handle recessions.

Historically they have been through enough of them and they are

handling this one much better than most countries. Sure, they have been

affected and exports were down, but are recovering already.

I think there has been enough said and we should now close this

discussion.

Regards

Moderator

> > > >

> > > > Hi Harvey,

> > > > sounds like you are being reckless with taking

risks. sure, it can

> > pay

> > > > off for a number of years, but you never know when

you will really

> > > > need it.

> > > >

> > > > Here in Germany, car (if you have one that is) and

health insurance

> > > > are required. If you are earning money, it will

cost you 14.9% of

> > your

> > > > earnings (

> > > >

> > > > .

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 15, 2009

at least someone understand the problems.

roger

From: rife_forum <rifeforumrife (DOT) de>Subject: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's SpeechTo: Rifeyahoogroups (DOT) comDate: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 5:32 AM

Harvey,Just very briefly. Whereas the UK health system in a kind of "socialist medicine" as you would define it, the German system is a two level (public and private) insurance based system.Obama's proposals are much closer to the German model than to the UK model, yet how often is the German model talked about in the US media? Could it be that the German health system is too close to Obama's proposals and works too well to be useful as a negative example by those who stand to lose profits from such a system in the USA.Have a look at this link for a fairer discussion on the German system from an American (PBS) point of view:http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ pages/frontline/ sickaroundthewor ld/interviews/ lauterbach. htmlPerhaps you consider all insurance to be "socialism" and that is why you have so

little of it personally. The basic principle is that all pay into a common fund and those that have a loss are compensated out of that fund. I suppose if the fund (insurance company) makes a profit, they are "capitalist" and if they are non-profit, they are "socialist" in your world. For the customer, the difference is that the "capitalist" version is always more expensive, as you have to pay the extra for the profits, and they have an interest in denying claims as that maximizes profit - the customer loses out on both. That is why the current US health system is the most expensive system, yet cannot even provide basic cover for all its own people.The German people are much more orientated towards being safe and probably do have more insurance of all kinds than in other countries. And yes, the German's know all about Gold as well.If what happened to my friend was just one in a million, then only about 80 people in Germany would suffer

from such expensive fates and Germany would only need one hospital for those 80 people. Somehow, I think the likelihood of needing such insurance is much much higher than that.As to the standards of living dropping in Germany. That has already happened. When Germany became reunited with the drop of the Berlin wall, the rich capitalist West Germany took on the bankrupt communist East Germany and had to pay a lot for rebuilding their infrastructure, that real communism had neglected since WWII. That has been a tremendous strain on the economy and has resulted in a loss in the standard of living as the taxes had to go up to pay for it all. If there is a country in this world which truly understands the differences between capitalism and communism, it is Germany!!!Believe me, the differences are NOT defined by whether health insurance is for everybody and makes a profit or not!!!Germans have already learned very well how to handle

recessions. Historically they have been through enough of them and they are handling this one much better than most countries. Sure, they have been affected and exports were down, but are recovering already.I think there has been enough said and we should now close this discussion.RegardsModerator> > > >> > > >> > > > Hi Harvey,> > > > sounds like you are being reckless with taking risks. sure, it can > > pay> > > > off for a number of years, but you never know when you will really> > > > need

it.> > > >> > > > Here in Germany, car (if you have one that is) and health insurance> > > > are required. If you are earning money, it will cost you 14.9% of > > your> > > > earnings (> > > >> > > > .> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>

September 15, 2009

at least someone understand the problems.

roger

From: rife_forum <rifeforumrife (DOT) de>Subject: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's SpeechTo: Rifeyahoogroups (DOT) comDate: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 5:32 AM

Harvey,Just very briefly. Whereas the UK health system in a kind of "socialist medicine" as you would define it, the German system is a two level (public and private) insurance based system.Obama's proposals are much closer to the German model than to the UK model, yet how often is the German model talked about in the US media? Could it be that the German health system is too close to Obama's proposals and works too well to be useful as a negative example by those who stand to lose profits from such a system in the USA.Have a look at this link for a fairer discussion on the German system from an American (PBS) point of view:http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ pages/frontline/ sickaroundthewor ld/interviews/ lauterbach. htmlPerhaps you consider all insurance to be "socialism" and that is why you have so

little of it personally. The basic principle is that all pay into a common fund and those that have a loss are compensated out of that fund. I suppose if the fund (insurance company) makes a profit, they are "capitalist" and if they are non-profit, they are "socialist" in your world. For the customer, the difference is that the "capitalist" version is always more expensive, as you have to pay the extra for the profits, and they have an interest in denying claims as that maximizes profit - the customer loses out on both. That is why the current US health system is the most expensive system, yet cannot even provide basic cover for all its own people.The German people are much more orientated towards being safe and probably do have more insurance of all kinds than in other countries. And yes, the German's know all about Gold as well.If what happened to my friend was just one in a million, then only about 80 people in Germany would suffer

from such expensive fates and Germany would only need one hospital for those 80 people. Somehow, I think the likelihood of needing such insurance is much much higher than that.As to the standards of living dropping in Germany. That has already happened. When Germany became reunited with the drop of the Berlin wall, the rich capitalist West Germany took on the bankrupt communist East Germany and had to pay a lot for rebuilding their infrastructure, that real communism had neglected since WWII. That has been a tremendous strain on the economy and has resulted in a loss in the standard of living as the taxes had to go up to pay for it all. If there is a country in this world which truly understands the differences between capitalism and communism, it is Germany!!!Believe me, the differences are NOT defined by whether health insurance is for everybody and makes a profit or not!!!Germans have already learned very well how to handle

recessions. Historically they have been through enough of them and they are handling this one much better than most countries. Sure, they have been affected and exports were down, but are recovering already.I think there has been enough said and we should now close this discussion.RegardsModerator> > > >> > > >> > > > Hi Harvey,> > > > sounds like you are being reckless with taking risks. sure, it can > > pay> > > > off for a number of years, but you never know when you will really> > > > need

it.> > > >> > > > Here in Germany, car (if you have one that is) and health insurance> > > > are required. If you are earning money, it will cost you 14.9% of > > your> > > > earnings (> > > >> > > > .> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>

September 15, 2009

Harvey reminds me of the times I've seen rich elderly people on television complaining that they receive Social Security payments even though they do not need the money. All of Madoff's clients were rich people, and now that they've lost all their wealth Social Security payments are the only income some of them have. I wonder if they're still complaining about Social Security? I wonder if it dawns on them the difference between welfare payments, which is what they think it is, and insurance, which is what it actually is.

Most homeowners have fire insurance on their homes. If they never have a fire I wonder if they complain that they didn't get anything for what they paid? Of course they did get something--insurance.And there's the usual scare tactics about taxes. The highest tax bracket at one time was 90%--now the highest tax bracket is 35%. I'd be delighted if taxes were 0% but that's not realistic, and neither is a top rate of 35%. This comment will raise the most ire. But it is totally unrealistic to wage two wars at once and not raise taxes to pay for them. In fact, we had tax cuts for the upper brackets instead of increases. What kind of bizarre concept of economics is this?

Randy

at least someone understand the problems.

roger

From: rife_forum <rifeforumrife (DOT) de>Subject: Re: Fw: [Teachings] OT: Obama's SpeechTo: Rifeyahoogroups (DOT) comDate: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 5:32 AM

Harvey,Just very briefly. Whereas the UK health system in a kind of " socialist medicine " as you would define it, the German system is a two level (public and private) insurance based system.Obama's proposals are much closer to the German model than to the UK model, yet how often is the German model talked about in the US media? Could it be that the German health system is too close to Obama's proposals and works too well to be useful as a negative example by those who stand to lose profits from such a system in the USA.

Have a look at this link for a fairer discussion on the German system from an American (PBS) point of view:http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ pages/frontline/ sickaroundthewor ld/interviews/ lauterbach. html

Perhaps you consider all insurance to be " socialism " and that is why you have so

little of it personally. The basic principle is that all pay into a common fund and those that have a loss are compensated out of that fund. I suppose if the fund (insurance company) makes a profit, they are " capitalist " and if they are non-profit, they are " socialist " in your world. For the customer, the difference is that the " capitalist " version is always more expensive, as you have to pay the extra for the profits, and they have an interest in denying claims as that maximizes profit - the customer loses out on both. That is why the current US health system is the most expensive system, yet cannot even provide basic cover for all its own people.

The German people are much more orientated towards being safe and probably do have more insurance of all kinds than in other countries. And yes, the German's know all about Gold as well.If what happened to my friend was just one in a million, then only about 80 people in Germany would suffer

from such expensive fates and Germany would only need one hospital for those 80 people. Somehow, I think the likelihood of needing such insurance is much much higher than that.As to the standards of living dropping in Germany. That has already happened. When Germany became reunited with the drop of the Berlin wall, the rich capitalist West Germany took on the bankrupt communist East Germany and had to pay a lot for rebuilding their infrastructure, that real communism had neglected since WWII. That has been a tremendous strain on the economy and has resulted in a loss in the standard of living as the taxes had to go up to pay for it all. If there is a country in this world which truly understands the differences between capitalism and communism, it is Germany!!!

Believe me, the differences are NOT defined by whether health insurance is for everybody and makes a profit or not!!!Germans have already learned very well how to handle

recessions. Historically they have been through enough of them and they are handling this one much better than most countries. Sure, they have been affected and exports were down, but are recovering already.I think there has been enough said and we should now close this discussion.

RegardsModerator> > > >> > > >> > > > Hi Harvey,> > > > sounds like you are being reckless with taking risks. sure, it can

> > pay> > > > off for a number of years, but you never know when you will really> > > > need

it.> > > >> > > > Here in Germany, car (if you have one that is) and health insurance> > > > are required. If you are earning money, it will cost you 14.9% of > > your

> > > > earnings (> > > >> > > > .> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>

September 15, 2009