supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

[Guest guest]

We feed no grain to beef animals winter or summer and they do fine. It is a matter of genetics. We feed the best hay we can afford and butcher early in the fall before they can use fat stores to keep warm when it hits -50F with the windchills up here. I wouldn't feed any soy product. I am currently looking at sprouting grains to supplement them though. Once they calve some of them have a hard time when it is really cold here.

Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canada“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed onto them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”- Reagan

supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

Hey friends,

I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets.

Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't really seem like pure grass feeding. And the other would be the question of whether soybeans hulls are detrimental in the way that regular soybean feed is. I guess a third problem would be that about 90% of his customers are WAPF'ers and absolutely hate the word "soybean" and wouldn't want any part of it in their beef.

So....I guess the reason I am sending a quick note to this group is to see if anyone could give suggestions about what this farmer could do in this situation. Are there any other feeds that he could use in winter when grass is scarce to keep his cattle gaining weight and doing well? Is soybean hull just as harmful as regular soybean? I really am not sure. I thought some of you farmers might know.

D.

moderator

===============================================================================

*This is what the Lord says: "Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight. 9:23-24

[Guest guest]

We feed no grain to beef animals winter or summer and they do fine. It is a matter of genetics. We feed the best hay we can afford and butcher early in the fall before they can use fat stores to keep warm when it hits -50F with the windchills up here. I wouldn't feed any soy product. I am currently looking at sprouting grains to supplement them though. Once they calve some of them have a hard time when it is really cold here.

Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canada“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed onto them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”- Reagan

supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

Hey friends,

I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets.

Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't really seem like pure grass feeding. And the other would be the question of whether soybeans hulls are detrimental in the way that regular soybean feed is. I guess a third problem would be that about 90% of his customers are WAPF'ers and absolutely hate the word "soybean" and wouldn't want any part of it in their beef.

So....I guess the reason I am sending a quick note to this group is to see if anyone could give suggestions about what this farmer could do in this situation. Are there any other feeds that he could use in winter when grass is scarce to keep his cattle gaining weight and doing well? Is soybean hull just as harmful as regular soybean? I really am not sure. I thought some of you farmers might know.

D.

moderator

===============================================================================

*This is what the Lord says: "Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight. 9:23-24

[Guest guest]

A good quality hay will keep beef cows fine.

Robie

www.bluestemfarms.com

--- supplemental feeds for grass fed cattleDate: Thu, May 22, 2008 6:05 pmTo: Raw Dairy Yahoo group <RawDairy >

Hey friends, I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets.

Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't really seem like pure grass feeding. And the other would be the question of whether soybeans hulls are detrimental in the way that regular soybean feed is. I guess a third problem would be that about 90% of his customers are WAPF'ers and absolutely hate the word "soybean" and wouldn't want any part of it in their beef.

So....I guess the reason I am sending a quick note to this group is to see if anyone could give suggestions about what this farmer could do in this situation. Are there any other feeds that he could use in winter when grass is scarce to keep his cattle gaining weight and doing well? Is soybean hull just as harmful as regular soybean? I really am not sure. I thought some of you farmers might know.

D.

moderator

===============================================================================

*This is what the Lord says: "Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight. 9:23-24

[Guest guest]

Many farmers are having to make a transistion to pure grass feeding

that could take years.

Livestock breeding practices have created animals that can't survive without

added feeds, and reversing those mistakes can't happen overnight.

As customers, if we insist upon pure grass fed meat NOW and do not

grant these farmers time to do what they must, we will likely create a

situation where animals will suffer. You dont want to encourage

farmers to starve their animals...

I would want to verify that this farmer is genuine. Ask if he is actively

pursuing breeding goals that will lead to pure grass-fed stock.

I agree I would not want anything part of the soybeans, however.

The sprouted grain idea is wonderful - what a nice compromise! Not

quite grain, and not quite grass.. a perfect middle ground to carry us

through the transition.

Regards,

Merry

Posted by: " Dady " shawn@... chicsingr2

(Snipped)

Hey friends,

I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding

and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this

farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the

farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the

winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets...

Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't

really seem like pure grass feeding....

D.

moderator

[Guest guest]

I think the feeding comes more from the farmer's belief that he MUST

feed something in the winter, not that he NEEDS to feed anything but

hay. Our boys and girls do just fine on hay through the winter months.

There isn't as much weight gain in the winter, that's why we butcher

in the late fall/early winter.

Have no idea about soybean hull pellets being good or bad. Guess I'd

want to know how much crap had been sprayed on the stuff and the

ground it's grown on.

Belinda's two cents

>

> Hey friends,

> I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding

> and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this

> farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the

> farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the

> winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets.

>

> Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't

> really seem like pure grass feeding. And the other would be the

> question of whether soybeans hulls are detrimental in the way that

> regular soybean feed is. I guess a third problem would be that about

> 90% of his customers are WAPF'ers and absolutely hate the word

> " soybean " and wouldn't want any part of it in their beef.

>

> So....I guess the reason I am sending a quick note to this group is to

> see if anyone could give suggestions about what this farmer could do

> in this situation. Are there any other feeds that he could use in

> winter when grass is scarce to keep his cattle gaining weight and

> doing well? Is soybean hull just as harmful as regular soybean? I

> really am not sure. I thought some of you farmers might know.

> D.

> moderator

> =

> =

> =

> =

> =

> =

> =

> ========================================================================

> *This is what the Lord says: " Let not the wise man boast of his

> wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast

> of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he

> understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,

> justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight.

> 9:23-24

>

[Guest guest]

I think the feeding comes more from the farmer's belief that he MUST

feed something in the winter, not that he NEEDS to feed anything but

hay. Our boys and girls do just fine on hay through the winter months.

There isn't as much weight gain in the winter, that's why we butcher

in the late fall/early winter.

Have no idea about soybean hull pellets being good or bad. Guess I'd

want to know how much crap had been sprayed on the stuff and the

ground it's grown on.

Belinda's two cents

>

> Hey friends,

> I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding

> and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this

> farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the

> farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the

> winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets.

>

> Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't

> really seem like pure grass feeding. And the other would be the

> question of whether soybeans hulls are detrimental in the way that

> regular soybean feed is. I guess a third problem would be that about

> 90% of his customers are WAPF'ers and absolutely hate the word

> " soybean " and wouldn't want any part of it in their beef.

>

> So....I guess the reason I am sending a quick note to this group is to

> see if anyone could give suggestions about what this farmer could do

> in this situation. Are there any other feeds that he could use in

> winter when grass is scarce to keep his cattle gaining weight and

> doing well? Is soybean hull just as harmful as regular soybean? I

> really am not sure. I thought some of you farmers might know.

> D.

> moderator

> =

> =

> =

> =

> =

> =

> =

> ========================================================================

> *This is what the Lord says: " Let not the wise man boast of his

> wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast

> of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he

> understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,

> justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight.

> 9:23-24

>

[Guest guest]

RE: supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

A good quality hay will keep beef cows fine.

Robie

www.bluestemfarms.com

Robie knows what he's talking about. He does it.

Of course he does his homework about breed selection, stocking rates, grass varieties and fertilization methods.

You should see the grass he grows with chicken litter. He's able to milk goats and cows straight off of his grass without them losing a bit of condition.

If he can milk without supplemental feed, you can certainly grow beef that way.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

RE: supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

A good quality hay will keep beef cows fine.

Robie

www.bluestemfarms.com

Robie knows what he's talking about. He does it.

Of course he does his homework about breed selection, stocking rates, grass varieties and fertilization methods.

You should see the grass he grows with chicken litter. He's able to milk goats and cows straight off of his grass without them losing a bit of condition.

If he can milk without supplemental feed, you can certainly grow beef that way.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

We have achieved this goal with our beef cows, almost. But not dairy

animals. I am very interested in this sprouting. Now I have customers

wanting no alfalfa either.

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

" Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't

pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for,

protected, and handed onto them to do the same, or one day we will spend our

sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was

once like in the United States where men were free. " - Reagan

supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

> Many farmers are having to make a transistion to pure grass feeding

> that could take years.

> Livestock breeding practices have created animals that can't survive

> without

> added feeds, and reversing those mistakes can't happen overnight.

>

> As customers, if we insist upon pure grass fed meat NOW and do not

> grant these farmers time to do what they must, we will likely create a

> situation where animals will suffer. You dont want to encourage

> farmers to starve their animals...

>

> I would want to verify that this farmer is genuine. Ask if he is actively

> pursuing breeding goals that will lead to pure grass-fed stock.

>

> I agree I would not want anything part of the soybeans, however.

> The sprouted grain idea is wonderful - what a nice compromise! Not

> quite grain, and not quite grass.. a perfect middle ground to carry us

> through the transition.

>

> Regards,

> Merry

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Dady " shawn@... chicsingr2

>

> (Snipped)

>

> Hey friends,

> I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding

> and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this

> farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the

> farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the

> winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets...

>

> Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't

> really seem like pure grass feeding....

> D.

> moderator

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

What's wrong with alfalfa?

Belinda

>

> We have achieved this goal with our beef cows, almost. But not dairy

> animals. I am very interested in this sprouting. Now I have customers

> wanting no alfalfa either.

> Debbie Chikousky

> Manitoba, Canada

> " Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We

didn't

> pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for,

> protected, and handed onto them to do the same, or one day we will

spend our

> sunset years telling our children and our children's children what

it was

> once like in the United States where men were free. " - Reagan

>

> supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

>

>

> > Many farmers are having to make a transistion to pure grass feeding

> > that could take years.

> > Livestock breeding practices have created animals that can't survive

> > without

> > added feeds, and reversing those mistakes can't happen overnight.

> >

> > As customers, if we insist upon pure grass fed meat NOW and do not

> > grant these farmers time to do what they must, we will likely create a

> > situation where animals will suffer. You dont want to encourage

> > farmers to starve their animals...

> >

> > I would want to verify that this farmer is genuine. Ask if he is

actively

> > pursuing breeding goals that will lead to pure grass-fed stock.

> >

> > I agree I would not want anything part of the soybeans, however.

> > The sprouted grain idea is wonderful - what a nice compromise! Not

> > quite grain, and not quite grass.. a perfect middle ground to carry us

> > through the transition.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Merry

> >

> >

> >

> > Posted by: " Dady " shawn@... chicsingr2

> >

> > (Snipped)

> >

> > Hey friends,

> > I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding

> > and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this

> > farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the

> > farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the

> > winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets...

> >

> > Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't

> > really seem like pure grass feeding....

> > D.

> > moderator

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

> >

> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

What's wrong with alfalfa?

Belinda

>

> We have achieved this goal with our beef cows, almost. But not dairy

> animals. I am very interested in this sprouting. Now I have customers

> wanting no alfalfa either.

> Debbie Chikousky

> Manitoba, Canada

> " Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We

didn't

> pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for,

> protected, and handed onto them to do the same, or one day we will

spend our

> sunset years telling our children and our children's children what

it was

> once like in the United States where men were free. " - Reagan

>

> supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

>

>

> > Many farmers are having to make a transistion to pure grass feeding

> > that could take years.

> > Livestock breeding practices have created animals that can't survive

> > without

> > added feeds, and reversing those mistakes can't happen overnight.

> >

> > As customers, if we insist upon pure grass fed meat NOW and do not

> > grant these farmers time to do what they must, we will likely create a

> > situation where animals will suffer. You dont want to encourage

> > farmers to starve their animals...

> >

> > I would want to verify that this farmer is genuine. Ask if he is

actively

> > pursuing breeding goals that will lead to pure grass-fed stock.

> >

> > I agree I would not want anything part of the soybeans, however.

> > The sprouted grain idea is wonderful - what a nice compromise! Not

> > quite grain, and not quite grass.. a perfect middle ground to carry us

> > through the transition.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Merry

> >

> >

> >

> > Posted by: " Dady " shawn@... chicsingr2

> >

> > (Snipped)

> >

> > Hey friends,

> > I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding

> > and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this

> > farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the

> > farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the

> > winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets...

> >

> > Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't

> > really seem like pure grass feeding....

> > D.

> > moderator

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

> >

> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

What's wrong with alfalfa?

Belinda

>

> We have achieved this goal with our beef cows, almost. But not dairy

> animals. I am very interested in this sprouting. Now I have customers

> wanting no alfalfa either.

> Debbie Chikousky

> Manitoba, Canada

> " Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We

didn't

> pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for,

> protected, and handed onto them to do the same, or one day we will

spend our

> sunset years telling our children and our children's children what

it was

> once like in the United States where men were free. " - Reagan

>

> supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

>

>

> > Many farmers are having to make a transistion to pure grass feeding

> > that could take years.

> > Livestock breeding practices have created animals that can't survive

> > without

> > added feeds, and reversing those mistakes can't happen overnight.

> >

> > As customers, if we insist upon pure grass fed meat NOW and do not

> > grant these farmers time to do what they must, we will likely create a

> > situation where animals will suffer. You dont want to encourage

> > farmers to starve their animals...

> >

> > I would want to verify that this farmer is genuine. Ask if he is

actively

> > pursuing breeding goals that will lead to pure grass-fed stock.

> >

> > I agree I would not want anything part of the soybeans, however.

> > The sprouted grain idea is wonderful - what a nice compromise! Not

> > quite grain, and not quite grass.. a perfect middle ground to carry us

> > through the transition.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Merry

> >

> >

> >

> > Posted by: " Dady " shawn@... chicsingr2

> >

> > (Snipped)

> >

> > Hey friends,

> > I just got a call from a friend who believes strongly in grass feeding

> > and WAPF. He has a deal with a cattle farmer close to him where this

> > farmer will raise the cattle and my friend markets it. However, the

> > farmer was wondering about possibly supplementing the cattle in the

> > winter with feed--and not just any feed, but SOYBEAN hull pellets...

> >

> > Two problems with this. One would be the fact that this doesn't

> > really seem like pure grass feeding....

> > D.

> > moderator

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

> >

> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You guys are all great! Thank you for so many responses, even

the cantankerous ones Hey you have to be cantankerous to be

a farmer sometimes. I get that.

D.

moderator

>

> The best people that I can think of to talk to about things like turnips and

sugar beets

would be the old farmers that are in their 70's and 80's.

> Grandpa passed away many years ago, but I know from stories that the family

has passed

down, that grandpa planted part of his farm in sugar beets, and that is what he

fed the milk

cows in the winter along with hay.

> They lived in North Dakota.

> Deb Ferrell

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Debbie Chikousky

[Guest guest]

You guys are all great! Thank you for so many responses, even

the cantankerous ones Hey you have to be cantankerous to be

a farmer sometimes. I get that.

D.

moderator

>

> The best people that I can think of to talk to about things like turnips and

sugar beets

would be the old farmers that are in their 70's and 80's.

> Grandpa passed away many years ago, but I know from stories that the family

has passed

down, that grandpa planted part of his farm in sugar beets, and that is what he

fed the milk

cows in the winter along with hay.

> They lived in North Dakota.

> Deb Ferrell

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Debbie Chikousky

[Guest guest]

You guys are all great! Thank you for so many responses, even

the cantankerous ones Hey you have to be cantankerous to be

a farmer sometimes. I get that.

D.

moderator

>

> The best people that I can think of to talk to about things like turnips and

sugar beets

would be the old farmers that are in their 70's and 80's.

> Grandpa passed away many years ago, but I know from stories that the family

has passed

down, that grandpa planted part of his farm in sugar beets, and that is what he

fed the milk

cows in the winter along with hay.

> They lived in North Dakota.

> Deb Ferrell

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Debbie Chikousky

[Guest guest]

Debbie, this is not aimed at you only as there are others on this list that are VERY critical of others who think maybe, more main stream, shall i say? this is strictly a vent. And for whatever reason some are not understanding. I didn't say supportive, but to just walk a mile in the other guys work boots!

UR preaching to the choir. We know about the CLA's, We know what they do and do not do. We know about jo , Acres USA,Stockman;s Grass Farmer yada yada yada, yada. The POINT being that because of CIRCUMSTANCES people can't always do what they want to do! That's LIFE! Because of certain regulations we ALSO could get our chops busted because of what we are doing.

About buying expensive grain - we don't buy it, we grow it. Last winter we also burned it! Honey, I live in the heart of corn and bean country. It is readily available. I drive around and all you see is row after row of corn and beans In the county I live in and some of the neighboring counties, you would be hard-pressed to find much pasture at all.

yes we use soybean meal for our protein source for both our dairy and our chickens. If someone doesn't like it like it, you don't have to buy our products. But then i would also suggest that you join APPPA become a member plus to gain web access, research the achieves or debate Jeff Mattocks about it using soybean meal as a protein source.

We have grown mangles before. A pain to dig as some of them were huge - up to two feet long or more! Cows loved them. And who knows, in the future we may do it again.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason that people are trying to change their feeding to get away from being grain dependant is usually two fold.

1. Grain supplementation is very expensive right now with the biofuel issues.

2. Grain decreases the amount of CLA that is available in the meat and milk of the producing animal.

Now I agree that there are times you need to supplement energy but I am willing to see if there are ways I can do that without it costing me a fortune and keeping the CLA in our product. If you don't have a problem with the amount of money you spend on feed then I can understand your reaction to this post and if so great.

Cheyenne has been great at info on growing Turnips as fodder for example. One thing I was thinking today was how many pounds of turnips would replace a pound of grain for our Jerseys? Anyone know or where there is research about this?

Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canada

[Guest guest]

Debbie, this is not aimed at you only as there are others on this list that are VERY critical of others who think maybe, more main stream, shall i say? this is strictly a vent. And for whatever reason some are not understanding. I didn't say supportive, but to just walk a mile in the other guys work boots!

UR preaching to the choir. We know about the CLA's, We know what they do and do not do. We know about jo , Acres USA,Stockman;s Grass Farmer yada yada yada, yada. The POINT being that because of CIRCUMSTANCES people can't always do what they want to do! That's LIFE! Because of certain regulations we ALSO could get our chops busted because of what we are doing.

About buying expensive grain - we don't buy it, we grow it. Last winter we also burned it! Honey, I live in the heart of corn and bean country. It is readily available. I drive around and all you see is row after row of corn and beans In the county I live in and some of the neighboring counties, you would be hard-pressed to find much pasture at all.

yes we use soybean meal for our protein source for both our dairy and our chickens. If someone doesn't like it like it, you don't have to buy our products. But then i would also suggest that you join APPPA become a member plus to gain web access, research the achieves or debate Jeff Mattocks about it using soybean meal as a protein source.

We have grown mangles before. A pain to dig as some of them were huge - up to two feet long or more! Cows loved them. And who knows, in the future we may do it again.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason that people are trying to change their feeding to get away from being grain dependant is usually two fold.

1. Grain supplementation is very expensive right now with the biofuel issues.

2. Grain decreases the amount of CLA that is available in the meat and milk of the producing animal.

Now I agree that there are times you need to supplement energy but I am willing to see if there are ways I can do that without it costing me a fortune and keeping the CLA in our product. If you don't have a problem with the amount of money you spend on feed then I can understand your reaction to this post and if so great.

Cheyenne has been great at info on growing Turnips as fodder for example. One thing I was thinking today was how many pounds of turnips would replace a pound of grain for our Jerseys? Anyone know or where there is research about this?

Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canada

[Guest guest]

Debbie, this is not aimed at you only as there are others on this list that are VERY critical of others who think maybe, more main stream, shall i say? this is strictly a vent. And for whatever reason some are not understanding. I didn't say supportive, but to just walk a mile in the other guys work boots!

UR preaching to the choir. We know about the CLA's, We know what they do and do not do. We know about jo , Acres USA,Stockman;s Grass Farmer yada yada yada, yada. The POINT being that because of CIRCUMSTANCES people can't always do what they want to do! That's LIFE! Because of certain regulations we ALSO could get our chops busted because of what we are doing.

About buying expensive grain - we don't buy it, we grow it. Last winter we also burned it! Honey, I live in the heart of corn and bean country. It is readily available. I drive around and all you see is row after row of corn and beans In the county I live in and some of the neighboring counties, you would be hard-pressed to find much pasture at all.

yes we use soybean meal for our protein source for both our dairy and our chickens. If someone doesn't like it like it, you don't have to buy our products. But then i would also suggest that you join APPPA become a member plus to gain web access, research the achieves or debate Jeff Mattocks about it using soybean meal as a protein source.

We have grown mangles before. A pain to dig as some of them were huge - up to two feet long or more! Cows loved them. And who knows, in the future we may do it again.

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The reason that people are trying to change their feeding to get away from being grain dependant is usually two fold.

1. Grain supplementation is very expensive right now with the biofuel issues.

2. Grain decreases the amount of CLA that is available in the meat and milk of the producing animal.

Now I agree that there are times you need to supplement energy but I am willing to see if there are ways I can do that without it costing me a fortune and keeping the CLA in our product. If you don't have a problem with the amount of money you spend on feed then I can understand your reaction to this post and if so great.

Cheyenne has been great at info on growing Turnips as fodder for example. One thing I was thinking today was how many pounds of turnips would replace a pound of grain for our Jerseys? Anyone know or where there is research about this?

Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canada

[Guest guest]

Thanks Gene for the vote of confidence. We've got you some ryegrass hay ready now. Baling orchardgrass today. Wanna sit on the JD and drill BMR sorghum/sudan?

Robie

milkin' Dexters,Nubians,Saanens

--- RE: supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

A good quality hay will keep beef cows fine.

Robie

www.bluestemfarms.com

Robie knows what he's talking about. He does it.

Of course he does his homework about breed selection, stocking rates, grass varieties and fertilization methods.

You should see the grass he grows with chicken litter. He's able to milk goats and cows straight off of his grass without them losing a bit of condition.

If he can milk without supplemental feed, you can certainly grow beef that way.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

Thanks Gene for the vote of confidence. We've got you some ryegrass hay ready now. Baling orchardgrass today. Wanna sit on the JD and drill BMR sorghum/sudan?

Robie

milkin' Dexters,Nubians,Saanens

--- RE: supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

A good quality hay will keep beef cows fine.

Robie

www.bluestemfarms.com

Robie knows what he's talking about. He does it.

Of course he does his homework about breed selection, stocking rates, grass varieties and fertilization methods.

You should see the grass he grows with chicken litter. He's able to milk goats and cows straight off of his grass without them losing a bit of condition.

If he can milk without supplemental feed, you can certainly grow beef that way.

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

RE: supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

Thanks Gene for the vote of confidence. We've got you some ryegrass hay ready now. Baling orchardgrass today. Wanna sit on the JD and drill BMR sorghum/sudan?

Robie

milkin' Dexters,Nubians,Saanens

I'd be more than glad to help. When?

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

RE: supplemental feeds for grass fed cattle

Thanks Gene for the vote of confidence. We've got you some ryegrass hay ready now. Baling orchardgrass today. Wanna sit on the JD and drill BMR sorghum/sudan?

Robie

milkin' Dexters,Nubians,Saanens

I'd be more than glad to help. When?

Genebo

Paradise Farm

[Guest guest]

I'd still like to see research done on feeding oats and what effects

there are with CLA and omegas. I would think oats would show the least

change of any grain.

I think they are by far the best grain for cattle of all the grains

for anyone wanting to feed some grain. I fed a couple pounds of oats

the last year I fed grain. They also have silica and gelatin.

I've always felt there must be a reason the

universities/extension/chemical conglomerates have tried so hard to

get farmers off oats and the wonderful straw it produces.

Cheyenne

>

> Given the choice ours don't go for seeded out grasses. They will

eat the

> seed heads of oats when they start heading out quite willingly though.

>

> Debbie Chikousky

> Manitoba, Canada

[Guest guest]

I'd still like to see research done on feeding oats and what effects

there are with CLA and omegas. I would think oats would show the least

change of any grain.

I think they are by far the best grain for cattle of all the grains

for anyone wanting to feed some grain. I fed a couple pounds of oats

the last year I fed grain. They also have silica and gelatin.

I've always felt there must be a reason the

universities/extension/chemical conglomerates have tried so hard to

get farmers off oats and the wonderful straw it produces.

Cheyenne

>

> Given the choice ours don't go for seeded out grasses. They will

eat the

> seed heads of oats when they start heading out quite willingly though.

>

> Debbie Chikousky

> Manitoba, Canada

[Guest guest]

We also must be aware of the huge difference in plants because of

selection, breeding, hybridization, etc. Have you ever seen pictures

of old corn plants? Not much starch is there? What would all of the

original plants have looked like compared to today?

As far as grass seed goes, I'm not sure there is much of an issue

even if they do eat some seed heads. Most would pass through to grow

some where else. What little if any is in a tiny grass seed probably

wouldn't even matter. More interesting research that could be done.

Cheyenne

>

> Grain is derived/evolved from grass. If you let your lawn grow long

> enough, eventually it will go to grain-like seed. In the summer, it

> only takes a growing lawn of grass a few weeks to get long enough to

> produce seed.

>

> So, my question is, in the wild, wouldn't the ancestors of the modern

> cow have eaten this grass with grain/grass seed on top?

>