Guest guest Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 I see you're following the attorney's traditional advice, when neither the facts nor the law are on your side, attack the other party. Since facts and reason are on my side I'll stick to them and hope you will do us all the courtesy of limiting any reply to factual information or reasoned analysis. This is a very long reply, I have put my responses into the original message thread all the way back to the beginning, which is the bottom of this very long document. > > > As I said the statement is so wrong on so many levels it is hard to > start tackling it. For starters " the other 25% probably have immune > system damage which leads to other health problems " - abs > ridiculous!! Immune system damage is the hallmark, the BASIS of autism > for Christ sake, he is plucking percentages shamelessly out of thin air. I am providing percentages based on very extensive research and data gathering. E. g. my case series shows this, Jim hair test study shows this, polls on various listservers show this, private discussion with various physicians - usually DAN! doctors - show that this 75/25% split is what they observe, and the ARI database also shows this. > > Save those few monogenetic disorders (that btw also have some form of > immune dysfunction present) autism does not exist without aberrant > immunity/inflammation! Also " damage " is wrong, much better word > Dysfunction up, as it is ongoing, life-long etc (unless treated)… > The immune system is very much functioning, but in ways that hurt the > body and brain. > > And no, the type of immune dysfunction and cytokine profiling present > in autism does not resemble in any way that induced by mercury poisoning I would be curious where you get this information since there is VERY limited information available in the literature and it is consistent with autism being mercury poisoning. > – actually going by what is known re how mercury effects the immune > system is often OPPOSITE to what is seen in autism. Again, this is not what I find in the literature. Can you provide citations, discussion, or information sources here? > > > The science on mercury and heavy metal poisoning, including case studies > etc what is happening is that Yes those thigs are neurotoxic no doubt > about that, brain damage, widespread organ damage -- tissue damage -- > cellular damage you name it. BUT NONE OF THOSE THINGS has much relevance > to what is going on in autism. Actually they do. You do have to be functionally literate so you don't read about acute mercury poisoning in adults and try to apply it to chronic organic mercury poisoning in infants as with autism. E. g. descriptions of the victims of minamata disease who were poisoned as infants are very autistic-like. Autism wasn't a known diagnosis in Japan at the time. Many of the neurobehavioral effects measured in the Seychelles and Faeroes studies are similar (but less than) those seen in autism. Of course, the proof of the hypothesis that mercury poisoning is often misdiagnosed as autism is that many autistic children are completely cured and become totally normal, with no need for special diets and supplements, if they are chelated properly for long enough. >That is - on organ damage level (ie what > is found in autism postmortem studies) does not resemble in any way or > form to postmortem findings on humansor animals who have been exposed to > high levels of toxic metals. Correct. This is where functional literacy is important. You actually have to know something about the subject you're reading about to interpret it properly. Autistic children were not poisoned in the same way as 'high level' toxicity. All standard medical textbooks discuss this difference, in them they discuss chronic versus acute poisoning, as well as organic versus inorganic mercury poisoning. You're confusing the different kinds of studies and drawing irrelevant conclusions. If you were sure of your conclusions you wouldn't have started the email attacking me, and you would have provided some cursory citation information so others can go look for themselves. >The same thing on tissue and > cellular/physiological level. There is loads of science on mercury > metals pathological damage, and there is lots of science on pathological > findings in autism, and when you put two and two together those two do > not come very close. Citations and discussions please? That certainly is not how I read the literature. > This includes both acute/high level exposure, as well as > sublinical low-level long-term exposure. Certainly this is a classic apples-and-oranges comparison. These give very different clinical effects, pathologies, and mercury distributions. Compare to one or the other and justify the comparison. > > Btw that is not to say that many/most of our kids won't have > increased levels of toxins – this is due to low GSH, The low GSH is due to their being sick. All sick people have reduced GSH levels. When you have the flu you don't get toxic because your GSH levels are down. >but that is confusing cause and effect/consequence. Yes, in fact that is exactly what you did. >Also yes possible that some > would have secondary brain DAMAGE induced by toxins, in addition to > `autism'. Autism is brain damage caused by mercury. Low glutathione is physiologic damage caused by mercury (and also by many, many other cuases). > To go back to statement briefly again there are so many ways in which > vaccines can hurt, Correct. > there is no reason to automatically assume the > regression is to do with mercury in them This is not an assumption. It is a proven fact. The evidence is completely overwhelming. You might try actually reading some of it instead of emoting because I said something you don't agree with. The paper by DeSoto and Hitlan is really wonderfully informative, as are the papers by Holmes and by Bradstreet demonstrating variations in mercury metabolism between autistics and normals. DeSoto and Hitlan show that if you actually calculate results properly using data taken in the studies that proclaim mercury doesn't cause autism, the existing data conclusively proves mercury does cause autism. There really never has been any data showing it does not. In fact, out of the 200 some journal papers on the topic, all but 3 show it is more likely than not that mercury (or vaccines) cause autism. These are simply mischaracterized by the MD world because they know all too many people like you are far more fond of emoting than of bothering to read a journal paper and figuring out what it says. You might try reading some of these papers. >– again if that was the > case the pathological picture in autism would fit the pathological > picture of mercury poisoning, Which it actually does, as those of us who have read the literature on both can attest. > again no the two do not have much in > common if anything at all. I see you haven't read the literature. Searching PubMed and reading a few abstracts doesn't qualify as reading the literature. > Re chelation – yes chelators are potentially wonderful and have many > strong effects that have nothing to do with removing of metals , DMSA and DMPS have almost no effect other than removing heavy metals. ALA temporarily increases glutathione levels in addition to removing heavy metals. Since the glutathione increase is temporary, any permanent gain on ALA chelation must be due to clearing the heavy metals. You can also increase glutathione levels by giving people milk, or whey protein, yet this is known to be very bad for perhaps 2/3 of autistic children. > and > have much to do with many things that our kids desparately need. Such as? >Strong > agents have the the ability to kick homeostasis out of balance further > hence regressions depending on dose frequency etc. No, if you give these agents to people who don't have clinically significant effects from heavy metals, nothing happens. You might be bothered to read the challenge test literature and compare it to observed challenge test results among toxic people, or to the www.dmpsbackfire.com website. Not toxic = nothing happens at all. The people getting sick due to harmful and inappropriate chelation are getting sick because they are toxic and someone who emotes rather than thinks, such as the author of this post I'm replying to, got a license and is practicing medicine without a clue. They're giving chelators randomly without even checking their textbooks for how to do it right. Not surprisingly, the results are poor. > > Will send you some stuff later on autism pathology and what fits imo, > remind me… > > You are right the word Cult very descriptive. Well, I will admit some foolish people are cult-like in following my protocol, but I want people to understand it so they do it right! I don't want it to be a cult. This is why I waste my life answering invective like this - if you understand, you are a lot more likely to do something that helps your kid and a lot less likely to do something that hurts your kid. Your kid deserves the best care they can get regardless of any failings the parents may have. > Ok back to work… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > and > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > (regardless > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > There > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > their > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > chelation > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > hime > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > children > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 I see you're following the attorney's traditional advice, when neither the facts nor the law are on your side, attack the other party. Since facts and reason are on my side I'll stick to them and hope you will do us all the courtesy of limiting any reply to factual information or reasoned analysis. This is a very long reply, I have put my responses into the original message thread all the way back to the beginning, which is the bottom of this very long document. > > > As I said the statement is so wrong on so many levels it is hard to > start tackling it. For starters " the other 25% probably have immune > system damage which leads to other health problems " - abs > ridiculous!! Immune system damage is the hallmark, the BASIS of autism > for Christ sake, he is plucking percentages shamelessly out of thin air. I am providing percentages based on very extensive research and data gathering. E. g. my case series shows this, Jim hair test study shows this, polls on various listservers show this, private discussion with various physicians - usually DAN! doctors - show that this 75/25% split is what they observe, and the ARI database also shows this. > > Save those few monogenetic disorders (that btw also have some form of > immune dysfunction present) autism does not exist without aberrant > immunity/inflammation! Also " damage " is wrong, much better word > Dysfunction up, as it is ongoing, life-long etc (unless treated)… > The immune system is very much functioning, but in ways that hurt the > body and brain. > > And no, the type of immune dysfunction and cytokine profiling present > in autism does not resemble in any way that induced by mercury poisoning I would be curious where you get this information since there is VERY limited information available in the literature and it is consistent with autism being mercury poisoning. > – actually going by what is known re how mercury effects the immune > system is often OPPOSITE to what is seen in autism. Again, this is not what I find in the literature. Can you provide citations, discussion, or information sources here? > > > The science on mercury and heavy metal poisoning, including case studies > etc what is happening is that Yes those thigs are neurotoxic no doubt > about that, brain damage, widespread organ damage -- tissue damage -- > cellular damage you name it. BUT NONE OF THOSE THINGS has much relevance > to what is going on in autism. Actually they do. You do have to be functionally literate so you don't read about acute mercury poisoning in adults and try to apply it to chronic organic mercury poisoning in infants as with autism. E. g. descriptions of the victims of minamata disease who were poisoned as infants are very autistic-like. Autism wasn't a known diagnosis in Japan at the time. Many of the neurobehavioral effects measured in the Seychelles and Faeroes studies are similar (but less than) those seen in autism. Of course, the proof of the hypothesis that mercury poisoning is often misdiagnosed as autism is that many autistic children are completely cured and become totally normal, with no need for special diets and supplements, if they are chelated properly for long enough. >That is - on organ damage level (ie what > is found in autism postmortem studies) does not resemble in any way or > form to postmortem findings on humansor animals who have been exposed to > high levels of toxic metals. Correct. This is where functional literacy is important. You actually have to know something about the subject you're reading about to interpret it properly. Autistic children were not poisoned in the same way as 'high level' toxicity. All standard medical textbooks discuss this difference, in them they discuss chronic versus acute poisoning, as well as organic versus inorganic mercury poisoning. You're confusing the different kinds of studies and drawing irrelevant conclusions. If you were sure of your conclusions you wouldn't have started the email attacking me, and you would have provided some cursory citation information so others can go look for themselves. >The same thing on tissue and > cellular/physiological level. There is loads of science on mercury > metals pathological damage, and there is lots of science on pathological > findings in autism, and when you put two and two together those two do > not come very close. Citations and discussions please? That certainly is not how I read the literature. > This includes both acute/high level exposure, as well as > sublinical low-level long-term exposure. Certainly this is a classic apples-and-oranges comparison. These give very different clinical effects, pathologies, and mercury distributions. Compare to one or the other and justify the comparison. > > Btw that is not to say that many/most of our kids won't have > increased levels of toxins – this is due to low GSH, The low GSH is due to their being sick. All sick people have reduced GSH levels. When you have the flu you don't get toxic because your GSH levels are down. >but that is confusing cause and effect/consequence. Yes, in fact that is exactly what you did. >Also yes possible that some > would have secondary brain DAMAGE induced by toxins, in addition to > `autism'. Autism is brain damage caused by mercury. Low glutathione is physiologic damage caused by mercury (and also by many, many other cuases). > To go back to statement briefly again there are so many ways in which > vaccines can hurt, Correct. > there is no reason to automatically assume the > regression is to do with mercury in them This is not an assumption. It is a proven fact. The evidence is completely overwhelming. You might try actually reading some of it instead of emoting because I said something you don't agree with. The paper by DeSoto and Hitlan is really wonderfully informative, as are the papers by Holmes and by Bradstreet demonstrating variations in mercury metabolism between autistics and normals. DeSoto and Hitlan show that if you actually calculate results properly using data taken in the studies that proclaim mercury doesn't cause autism, the existing data conclusively proves mercury does cause autism. There really never has been any data showing it does not. In fact, out of the 200 some journal papers on the topic, all but 3 show it is more likely than not that mercury (or vaccines) cause autism. These are simply mischaracterized by the MD world because they know all too many people like you are far more fond of emoting than of bothering to read a journal paper and figuring out what it says. You might try reading some of these papers. >– again if that was the > case the pathological picture in autism would fit the pathological > picture of mercury poisoning, Which it actually does, as those of us who have read the literature on both can attest. > again no the two do not have much in > common if anything at all. I see you haven't read the literature. Searching PubMed and reading a few abstracts doesn't qualify as reading the literature. > Re chelation – yes chelators are potentially wonderful and have many > strong effects that have nothing to do with removing of metals , DMSA and DMPS have almost no effect other than removing heavy metals. ALA temporarily increases glutathione levels in addition to removing heavy metals. Since the glutathione increase is temporary, any permanent gain on ALA chelation must be due to clearing the heavy metals. You can also increase glutathione levels by giving people milk, or whey protein, yet this is known to be very bad for perhaps 2/3 of autistic children. > and > have much to do with many things that our kids desparately need. Such as? >Strong > agents have the the ability to kick homeostasis out of balance further > hence regressions depending on dose frequency etc. No, if you give these agents to people who don't have clinically significant effects from heavy metals, nothing happens. You might be bothered to read the challenge test literature and compare it to observed challenge test results among toxic people, or to the www.dmpsbackfire.com website. Not toxic = nothing happens at all. The people getting sick due to harmful and inappropriate chelation are getting sick because they are toxic and someone who emotes rather than thinks, such as the author of this post I'm replying to, got a license and is practicing medicine without a clue. They're giving chelators randomly without even checking their textbooks for how to do it right. Not surprisingly, the results are poor. > > Will send you some stuff later on autism pathology and what fits imo, > remind me… > > You are right the word Cult very descriptive. Well, I will admit some foolish people are cult-like in following my protocol, but I want people to understand it so they do it right! I don't want it to be a cult. This is why I waste my life answering invective like this - if you understand, you are a lot more likely to do something that helps your kid and a lot less likely to do something that hurts your kid. Your kid deserves the best care they can get regardless of any failings the parents may have. > Ok back to work… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > and > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > (regardless > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > There > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > their > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > chelation > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > hime > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > children > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 I see you're following the attorney's traditional advice, when neither the facts nor the law are on your side, attack the other party. Since facts and reason are on my side I'll stick to them and hope you will do us all the courtesy of limiting any reply to factual information or reasoned analysis. This is a very long reply, I have put my responses into the original message thread all the way back to the beginning, which is the bottom of this very long document. > > > As I said the statement is so wrong on so many levels it is hard to > start tackling it. For starters " the other 25% probably have immune > system damage which leads to other health problems " - abs > ridiculous!! Immune system damage is the hallmark, the BASIS of autism > for Christ sake, he is plucking percentages shamelessly out of thin air. I am providing percentages based on very extensive research and data gathering. E. g. my case series shows this, Jim hair test study shows this, polls on various listservers show this, private discussion with various physicians - usually DAN! doctors - show that this 75/25% split is what they observe, and the ARI database also shows this. > > Save those few monogenetic disorders (that btw also have some form of > immune dysfunction present) autism does not exist without aberrant > immunity/inflammation! Also " damage " is wrong, much better word > Dysfunction up, as it is ongoing, life-long etc (unless treated)… > The immune system is very much functioning, but in ways that hurt the > body and brain. > > And no, the type of immune dysfunction and cytokine profiling present > in autism does not resemble in any way that induced by mercury poisoning I would be curious where you get this information since there is VERY limited information available in the literature and it is consistent with autism being mercury poisoning. > – actually going by what is known re how mercury effects the immune > system is often OPPOSITE to what is seen in autism. Again, this is not what I find in the literature. Can you provide citations, discussion, or information sources here? > > > The science on mercury and heavy metal poisoning, including case studies > etc what is happening is that Yes those thigs are neurotoxic no doubt > about that, brain damage, widespread organ damage -- tissue damage -- > cellular damage you name it. BUT NONE OF THOSE THINGS has much relevance > to what is going on in autism. Actually they do. You do have to be functionally literate so you don't read about acute mercury poisoning in adults and try to apply it to chronic organic mercury poisoning in infants as with autism. E. g. descriptions of the victims of minamata disease who were poisoned as infants are very autistic-like. Autism wasn't a known diagnosis in Japan at the time. Many of the neurobehavioral effects measured in the Seychelles and Faeroes studies are similar (but less than) those seen in autism. Of course, the proof of the hypothesis that mercury poisoning is often misdiagnosed as autism is that many autistic children are completely cured and become totally normal, with no need for special diets and supplements, if they are chelated properly for long enough. >That is - on organ damage level (ie what > is found in autism postmortem studies) does not resemble in any way or > form to postmortem findings on humansor animals who have been exposed to > high levels of toxic metals. Correct. This is where functional literacy is important. You actually have to know something about the subject you're reading about to interpret it properly. Autistic children were not poisoned in the same way as 'high level' toxicity. All standard medical textbooks discuss this difference, in them they discuss chronic versus acute poisoning, as well as organic versus inorganic mercury poisoning. You're confusing the different kinds of studies and drawing irrelevant conclusions. If you were sure of your conclusions you wouldn't have started the email attacking me, and you would have provided some cursory citation information so others can go look for themselves. >The same thing on tissue and > cellular/physiological level. There is loads of science on mercury > metals pathological damage, and there is lots of science on pathological > findings in autism, and when you put two and two together those two do > not come very close. Citations and discussions please? That certainly is not how I read the literature. > This includes both acute/high level exposure, as well as > sublinical low-level long-term exposure. Certainly this is a classic apples-and-oranges comparison. These give very different clinical effects, pathologies, and mercury distributions. Compare to one or the other and justify the comparison. > > Btw that is not to say that many/most of our kids won't have > increased levels of toxins – this is due to low GSH, The low GSH is due to their being sick. All sick people have reduced GSH levels. When you have the flu you don't get toxic because your GSH levels are down. >but that is confusing cause and effect/consequence. Yes, in fact that is exactly what you did. >Also yes possible that some > would have secondary brain DAMAGE induced by toxins, in addition to > `autism'. Autism is brain damage caused by mercury. Low glutathione is physiologic damage caused by mercury (and also by many, many other cuases). > To go back to statement briefly again there are so many ways in which > vaccines can hurt, Correct. > there is no reason to automatically assume the > regression is to do with mercury in them This is not an assumption. It is a proven fact. The evidence is completely overwhelming. You might try actually reading some of it instead of emoting because I said something you don't agree with. The paper by DeSoto and Hitlan is really wonderfully informative, as are the papers by Holmes and by Bradstreet demonstrating variations in mercury metabolism between autistics and normals. DeSoto and Hitlan show that if you actually calculate results properly using data taken in the studies that proclaim mercury doesn't cause autism, the existing data conclusively proves mercury does cause autism. There really never has been any data showing it does not. In fact, out of the 200 some journal papers on the topic, all but 3 show it is more likely than not that mercury (or vaccines) cause autism. These are simply mischaracterized by the MD world because they know all too many people like you are far more fond of emoting than of bothering to read a journal paper and figuring out what it says. You might try reading some of these papers. >– again if that was the > case the pathological picture in autism would fit the pathological > picture of mercury poisoning, Which it actually does, as those of us who have read the literature on both can attest. > again no the two do not have much in > common if anything at all. I see you haven't read the literature. Searching PubMed and reading a few abstracts doesn't qualify as reading the literature. > Re chelation – yes chelators are potentially wonderful and have many > strong effects that have nothing to do with removing of metals , DMSA and DMPS have almost no effect other than removing heavy metals. ALA temporarily increases glutathione levels in addition to removing heavy metals. Since the glutathione increase is temporary, any permanent gain on ALA chelation must be due to clearing the heavy metals. You can also increase glutathione levels by giving people milk, or whey protein, yet this is known to be very bad for perhaps 2/3 of autistic children. > and > have much to do with many things that our kids desparately need. Such as? >Strong > agents have the the ability to kick homeostasis out of balance further > hence regressions depending on dose frequency etc. No, if you give these agents to people who don't have clinically significant effects from heavy metals, nothing happens. You might be bothered to read the challenge test literature and compare it to observed challenge test results among toxic people, or to the www.dmpsbackfire.com website. Not toxic = nothing happens at all. The people getting sick due to harmful and inappropriate chelation are getting sick because they are toxic and someone who emotes rather than thinks, such as the author of this post I'm replying to, got a license and is practicing medicine without a clue. They're giving chelators randomly without even checking their textbooks for how to do it right. Not surprisingly, the results are poor. > > Will send you some stuff later on autism pathology and what fits imo, > remind me… > > You are right the word Cult very descriptive. Well, I will admit some foolish people are cult-like in following my protocol, but I want people to understand it so they do it right! I don't want it to be a cult. This is why I waste my life answering invective like this - if you understand, you are a lot more likely to do something that helps your kid and a lot less likely to do something that hurts your kid. Your kid deserves the best care they can get regardless of any failings the parents may have. > Ok back to work… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > and > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > (regardless > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > There > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > their > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > chelation > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > hime > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > children > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 Thanks Andy for taking the time to reply. Finally someone talking sense. The fact i have been called a Cult follower (out of many people on here) as my son makes daily gains with your protocol...i find extremley offensive. The people making those claims are insinuating that i have no intelligence and am easily led. The truth is the opposite, far from it....hence why i use your protocol Kirsty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > > and > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > > (regardless > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > > their > > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > > chelation > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > > hime > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > > children > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? > > > My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. > > > DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. > > > ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. > > > >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. > > Andy > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 Thanks Andy for taking the time to reply. Finally someone talking sense. The fact i have been called a Cult follower (out of many people on here) as my son makes daily gains with your protocol...i find extremley offensive. The people making those claims are insinuating that i have no intelligence and am easily led. The truth is the opposite, far from it....hence why i use your protocol Kirsty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > > and > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > > (regardless > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > > their > > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > > chelation > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > > hime > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > > children > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? > > > My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. > > > DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. > > > ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. > > > >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. > > Andy > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 I read Dr Cutler's book some years ago and found it very hard to follow. At the end of it, I was far from clear that this was the way to go. I guess most people (I include myself) have very little scientific education and this means we are considerably disadvantaged in assessing the science behind anything. The first post I ever made on Autism-Mercury was quite a few years ago. I asked what the scientific evidence was and for references to papers that showed this. I received a rude and abrupt reply to the effect that if I wanted references I would have to do all the research myself and it wasn't going to be given to me. Since I am not a scientist and also didn't have the time or the resources to obtain all the original papers I was very put off. I was really being told to take it or leave it. Not very helpful. I decided in the circumstances,even though I knew he had a body burden of lead and I am still very concerned about this, not to do anything that might provoke more seizures in my child, alienate my child's father, get me in trouble with the child protection people and lead to my child being taken into care. Margaret > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > > > and > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > > > (regardless > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > > > There > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > > > their > > > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > > > chelation > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > > > hime > > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > > > children > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? > > > > > > My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. > > > > > > DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. > > > > > > ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. > > > > > > >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > > > > This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. > > > > Andy > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 I read Dr Cutler's book some years ago and found it very hard to follow. At the end of it, I was far from clear that this was the way to go. I guess most people (I include myself) have very little scientific education and this means we are considerably disadvantaged in assessing the science behind anything. The first post I ever made on Autism-Mercury was quite a few years ago. I asked what the scientific evidence was and for references to papers that showed this. I received a rude and abrupt reply to the effect that if I wanted references I would have to do all the research myself and it wasn't going to be given to me. Since I am not a scientist and also didn't have the time or the resources to obtain all the original papers I was very put off. I was really being told to take it or leave it. Not very helpful. I decided in the circumstances,even though I knew he had a body burden of lead and I am still very concerned about this, not to do anything that might provoke more seizures in my child, alienate my child's father, get me in trouble with the child protection people and lead to my child being taken into care. Margaret > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > > > and > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > > > (regardless > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > > > There > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > > > their > > > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > > > chelation > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > > > hime > > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > > > children > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? > > > > > > My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. > > > > > > DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. > > > > > > ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. > > > > > > >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > > > > This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. > > > > Andy > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 OMG so you are rude on top! lol I really don't have the time for this. What is my word anyway, I'm just a mum no one would believe me best, Natasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > > and > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > > (regardless > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > > their > > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > > chelation > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > > hime > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > > children > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? > > > My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. > > > DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. > > > ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. > > > >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. > > Andy > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 OMG so you are rude on top! lol I really don't have the time for this. What is my word anyway, I'm just a mum no one would believe me best, Natasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > > and > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > > (regardless > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > > their > > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > > chelation > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > > hime > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > > children > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? > > > My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. > > > DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. > > > ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. > > > >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. > > Andy > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 sorry K if the word offended, it wasn't directrd to anyone doing chelation, or a particular form of chelation, just how speculations are taken as granted nxx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > > > and > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > > > (regardless > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > > > There > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > > > their > > > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > > > chelation > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > > > hime > > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > > > children > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? > > > > > > My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. > > > > > > DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. > > > > > > ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. > > > > > > >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > > > > This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. > > > > Andy > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 sorry K if the word offended, it wasn't directrd to anyone doing chelation, or a particular form of chelation, just how speculations are taken as granted nxx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation > > > and > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > > > (regardless > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > > > There > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this > > > > past > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get > > > their > > > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > > > chelation > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get > > > > hime > > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose > > > children > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? > > > > > > My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better. > > > > > > DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need. > > > > > > ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say " HELP ME! " You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions. > > > > > > >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > > > > This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps. > > > > Andy > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time, > joanneallman@... writes: > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I was respectful. I was also direct, and responded more or less in kind. I also provided real information. I invited Natasa to respond in kind - with real information that is, if she can. I have found through long experience on listservers that excessive politeness hinders communications and causes a lot of parents to hurt their children. Parents do not make good decisions when politeness covers up the fact that there are very real and serious disagreements that can have permanent, devastating consequences for their children. I guess one way you could phrase this is to say that I was civil but not polite. I do not believe Natasa's post was even civil, since it directly accused me of lying - making up data that I've discussed the origins of many, many times on other publicly archived listservers. Also I do answer direct questions sent to me privately about how I came up with this kind of information, Natasa never asked. Under the circumstances, which are essentially that I was libeled by a false and defamatory statement Natasa could easily have determined was not true, I think politeness is not absolutely required by social norms. I don't want to be rude, upset you (or even Natasa), or generally start a flame war on the listserver but I hope you will see it my way on this. Yes I should be civil. When in polite company I should also be polite, and when in doubt I should be polite. In the face of false and defamatory statements that may also hurt a lot of innocent children, I think even being civil is morally optional, but frankly if I don't draw the line there a lot of people will ignore me. I'd love for this to transition into a polite exchange but some respect has to cut both ways for that to occur. E. g. you politely expressed your disagreement with the tone of my earlier communication and I'm politely but frankly explaining why I chose to say it that way. If you go back 8 or 10 years in the archives of various lists you'll see that it took me a while to learn that there were situations in which politeness would seem to any reasonable person to be appropriate, but in which it does not work to affect behavior. I eventually learned to use means of communications that are effective at changing behavior. Honestly, I do wish polite interchanges of logical reasoning and scientific information were always effective! But unfortunately it is not so. E. g. when people demand peer reviewed studies to support what you are saying, my experience is they uniformly still will not agree with you if you can provide those in any arbitrarily large number. Please feel free to improve the character of discourse on this list by engaging me and others in polite discussion of the actual biomedical topics of interest! Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time, > joanneallman@... writes: > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I was respectful. I was also direct, and responded more or less in kind. I also provided real information. I invited Natasa to respond in kind - with real information that is, if she can. I have found through long experience on listservers that excessive politeness hinders communications and causes a lot of parents to hurt their children. Parents do not make good decisions when politeness covers up the fact that there are very real and serious disagreements that can have permanent, devastating consequences for their children. I guess one way you could phrase this is to say that I was civil but not polite. I do not believe Natasa's post was even civil, since it directly accused me of lying - making up data that I've discussed the origins of many, many times on other publicly archived listservers. Also I do answer direct questions sent to me privately about how I came up with this kind of information, Natasa never asked. Under the circumstances, which are essentially that I was libeled by a false and defamatory statement Natasa could easily have determined was not true, I think politeness is not absolutely required by social norms. I don't want to be rude, upset you (or even Natasa), or generally start a flame war on the listserver but I hope you will see it my way on this. Yes I should be civil. When in polite company I should also be polite, and when in doubt I should be polite. In the face of false and defamatory statements that may also hurt a lot of innocent children, I think even being civil is morally optional, but frankly if I don't draw the line there a lot of people will ignore me. I'd love for this to transition into a polite exchange but some respect has to cut both ways for that to occur. E. g. you politely expressed your disagreement with the tone of my earlier communication and I'm politely but frankly explaining why I chose to say it that way. If you go back 8 or 10 years in the archives of various lists you'll see that it took me a while to learn that there were situations in which politeness would seem to any reasonable person to be appropriate, but in which it does not work to affect behavior. I eventually learned to use means of communications that are effective at changing behavior. Honestly, I do wish polite interchanges of logical reasoning and scientific information were always effective! But unfortunately it is not so. E. g. when people demand peer reviewed studies to support what you are saying, my experience is they uniformly still will not agree with you if you can provide those in any arbitrarily large number. Please feel free to improve the character of discourse on this list by engaging me and others in polite discussion of the actual biomedical topics of interest! Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time, > joanneallman@... writes: > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I was respectful. I was also direct, and responded more or less in kind. I also provided real information. I invited Natasa to respond in kind - with real information that is, if she can. I have found through long experience on listservers that excessive politeness hinders communications and causes a lot of parents to hurt their children. Parents do not make good decisions when politeness covers up the fact that there are very real and serious disagreements that can have permanent, devastating consequences for their children. I guess one way you could phrase this is to say that I was civil but not polite. I do not believe Natasa's post was even civil, since it directly accused me of lying - making up data that I've discussed the origins of many, many times on other publicly archived listservers. Also I do answer direct questions sent to me privately about how I came up with this kind of information, Natasa never asked. Under the circumstances, which are essentially that I was libeled by a false and defamatory statement Natasa could easily have determined was not true, I think politeness is not absolutely required by social norms. I don't want to be rude, upset you (or even Natasa), or generally start a flame war on the listserver but I hope you will see it my way on this. Yes I should be civil. When in polite company I should also be polite, and when in doubt I should be polite. In the face of false and defamatory statements that may also hurt a lot of innocent children, I think even being civil is morally optional, but frankly if I don't draw the line there a lot of people will ignore me. I'd love for this to transition into a polite exchange but some respect has to cut both ways for that to occur. E. g. you politely expressed your disagreement with the tone of my earlier communication and I'm politely but frankly explaining why I chose to say it that way. If you go back 8 or 10 years in the archives of various lists you'll see that it took me a while to learn that there were situations in which politeness would seem to any reasonable person to be appropriate, but in which it does not work to affect behavior. I eventually learned to use means of communications that are effective at changing behavior. Honestly, I do wish polite interchanges of logical reasoning and scientific information were always effective! But unfortunately it is not so. E. g. when people demand peer reviewed studies to support what you are saying, my experience is they uniformly still will not agree with you if you can provide those in any arbitrarily large number. Please feel free to improve the character of discourse on this list by engaging me and others in polite discussion of the actual biomedical topics of interest! Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 > > Can we please just establish what the difference of opinion is here? > > I am getting confused (that's not hard for me to do!) I am thinking :- > > Andy believes Mercury is toxic, it is implicated as cause of some autism, > it effects the immune system and organs as well as the brain and chelating > safely using low frequent doses will help address the toxicity in > individuals unable to effectively detox their own systems? > > Natasa believes Mercury is toxic but is not implicated as a cause of > autism? > > She feels that chelation may help in autism but that is for other reasons > than removing Mercury? If you plan to chelate she feels low frequent dosing > is the way to go? As I recall she has used this protocol for her own son > in the past. If this is correct, there really is no further debate required - Natasa and I agree frequent low dose chelation will benefit many children. If it works for your child, it doesn't really matter why so we can spare you all the likely not very polite debate on that. A debate starting out with direct statements that I'm making things up (response rate), don't really know anything about the journal literature, or autism, or what mercury does to people doesn't seem likely to end up being pursued in sweet and loving terms. So since it appears that Natasa agreed with frequent low dose chelation enough to use it on her son, and all I'm saying is the rest of you should try what she was willing to do, the topic probably can be dropped now. She's said what she has to say, I've said what I have to say, I think her actions speak louder than her words and further words are unnecessary. > Please correct me if I have this wrong as if this discussion is going to > continue on the list we all need to be quite sure what its about, as this is > scarey for newbies and old timers alike when two smart folks disagree, in > fact probably fair to say Natasa disagreeing with large majority of the > autism biomed community not just Andy. > > Thanks folks > > Mandi x > Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 > > Can we please just establish what the difference of opinion is here? > > I am getting confused (that's not hard for me to do!) I am thinking :- > > Andy believes Mercury is toxic, it is implicated as cause of some autism, > it effects the immune system and organs as well as the brain and chelating > safely using low frequent doses will help address the toxicity in > individuals unable to effectively detox their own systems? > > Natasa believes Mercury is toxic but is not implicated as a cause of > autism? > > She feels that chelation may help in autism but that is for other reasons > than removing Mercury? If you plan to chelate she feels low frequent dosing > is the way to go? As I recall she has used this protocol for her own son > in the past. If this is correct, there really is no further debate required - Natasa and I agree frequent low dose chelation will benefit many children. If it works for your child, it doesn't really matter why so we can spare you all the likely not very polite debate on that. A debate starting out with direct statements that I'm making things up (response rate), don't really know anything about the journal literature, or autism, or what mercury does to people doesn't seem likely to end up being pursued in sweet and loving terms. So since it appears that Natasa agreed with frequent low dose chelation enough to use it on her son, and all I'm saying is the rest of you should try what she was willing to do, the topic probably can be dropped now. She's said what she has to say, I've said what I have to say, I think her actions speak louder than her words and further words are unnecessary. > Please correct me if I have this wrong as if this discussion is going to > continue on the list we all need to be quite sure what its about, as this is > scarey for newbies and old timers alike when two smart folks disagree, in > fact probably fair to say Natasa disagreeing with large majority of the > autism biomed community not just Andy. > > Thanks folks > > Mandi x > Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 > > Can we please just establish what the difference of opinion is here? > > I am getting confused (that's not hard for me to do!) I am thinking :- > > Andy believes Mercury is toxic, it is implicated as cause of some autism, > it effects the immune system and organs as well as the brain and chelating > safely using low frequent doses will help address the toxicity in > individuals unable to effectively detox their own systems? > > Natasa believes Mercury is toxic but is not implicated as a cause of > autism? > > She feels that chelation may help in autism but that is for other reasons > than removing Mercury? If you plan to chelate she feels low frequent dosing > is the way to go? As I recall she has used this protocol for her own son > in the past. If this is correct, there really is no further debate required - Natasa and I agree frequent low dose chelation will benefit many children. If it works for your child, it doesn't really matter why so we can spare you all the likely not very polite debate on that. A debate starting out with direct statements that I'm making things up (response rate), don't really know anything about the journal literature, or autism, or what mercury does to people doesn't seem likely to end up being pursued in sweet and loving terms. So since it appears that Natasa agreed with frequent low dose chelation enough to use it on her son, and all I'm saying is the rest of you should try what she was willing to do, the topic probably can be dropped now. She's said what she has to say, I've said what I have to say, I think her actions speak louder than her words and further words are unnecessary. > Please correct me if I have this wrong as if this discussion is going to > continue on the list we all need to be quite sure what its about, as this is > scarey for newbies and old timers alike when two smart folks disagree, in > fact probably fair to say Natasa disagreeing with large majority of the > autism biomed community not just Andy. > > Thanks folks > > Mandi x > Andy http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 yes > > > > Can we please just establish what the difference of opinion is here? > > > > I am getting confused (that's not hard for me to do!) I am thinking :- > > > > Andy believes Mercury is toxic, it is implicated as cause of some autism, > > it effects the immune system and organs as well as the brain and chelating > > safely using low frequent doses will help address the toxicity in > > individuals unable to effectively detox their own systems? > > > > Natasa believes Mercury is toxic but is not implicated as a cause of > > autism? > > > > She feels that chelation may help in autism but that is for other reasons > > than removing Mercury? If you plan to chelate she feels low frequent dosing > > is the way to go? As I recall she has used this protocol for her own son > > in the past. > > If this is correct, there really is no further debate required - Natasa and I agree frequent low dose chelation will benefit many children. > > If it works for your child, it doesn't really matter why so we can spare you all the likely not very polite debate on that. A debate starting out with direct statements that I'm making things up (response rate), don't really know anything about the journal literature, or autism, or what mercury does to people doesn't seem likely to end up being pursued in sweet and loving terms. > > So since it appears that Natasa agreed with frequent low dose chelation enough to use it on her son, and all I'm saying is the rest of you should try what she was willing to do, the topic probably can be dropped now. She's said what she has to say, I've said what I have to say, I think her actions speak louder than her words and further words are unnecessary. > > > Please correct me if I have this wrong as if this discussion is going to > > continue on the list we all need to be quite sure what its about, as this is > > scarey for newbies and old timers alike when two smart folks disagree, in > > fact probably fair to say Natasa disagreeing with large majority of the > > autism biomed community not just Andy. > > > > Thanks folks > > > > Mandi x > > > Andy > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 Hi Marina that was actually a serious question, as those pathways are involved in any type of brain injury with different neurological outcomes.. > > > herself to/about AC or another list member.......... > > > > > > > > I thinks this happens because we are such a passionate bunch. I have > > been > > > > reading Andys posts for over 10 years on A-M list and originally saw > > him > > > > explaining over and over and being nicey nicey and so many times > > people just > > > > don't get it until he just started saying it the way it is to him > > with no > > > > frills. > > > > > > > > After tiddling about for such a long time and asking question after > > > > question (delaying tactic I see now) that Andy suggested very > > bluntly that I stop > > > > wittering and get on with it, can't say it would have taken this > > long to > > > > get going with chelation but I suspect I could have easily wasted > > another > > > > year and will ever be grateful that didn't. He is blunt because he > > cares IMHO > > > > > > > > Mx > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time, > > > > joanneallman@ writes: > > > > > > > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community > > shows > > > > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I accept Dr Cutler's > > point that > > > > our children's health is far more important than the social > > niceties, but I > > > > don't see why we can't aim for both! The problem with being > > disrespectful, > > > > quite apart from the offence it causes, is that it makes it very > > difficult > > > > to engage in rational discussion. Ironically, in this thread there > > is the > > > > basis of a productive debate, but sadly it has been undermined by > > the > > > > language in which it is couched. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 Hi Marina that was actually a serious question, as those pathways are involved in any type of brain injury with different neurological outcomes.. > > > herself to/about AC or another list member.......... > > > > > > > > I thinks this happens because we are such a passionate bunch. I have > > been > > > > reading Andys posts for over 10 years on A-M list and originally saw > > him > > > > explaining over and over and being nicey nicey and so many times > > people just > > > > don't get it until he just started saying it the way it is to him > > with no > > > > frills. > > > > > > > > After tiddling about for such a long time and asking question after > > > > question (delaying tactic I see now) that Andy suggested very > > bluntly that I stop > > > > wittering and get on with it, can't say it would have taken this > > long to > > > > get going with chelation but I suspect I could have easily wasted > > another > > > > year and will ever be grateful that didn't. He is blunt because he > > cares IMHO > > > > > > > > Mx > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time, > > > > joanneallman@ writes: > > > > > > > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community > > shows > > > > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I accept Dr Cutler's > > point that > > > > our children's health is far more important than the social > > niceties, but I > > > > don't see why we can't aim for both! The problem with being > > disrespectful, > > > > quite apart from the offence it causes, is that it makes it very > > difficult > > > > to engage in rational discussion. Ironically, in this thread there > > is the > > > > basis of a productive debate, but sadly it has been undermined by > > the > > > > language in which it is couched. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.