Re: Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold to Illness WRITE TO...

[Guest guest]

Yep. Yet, this is one of the bogus papers that the judge in New York relied

upon to form her conclusion. PLEASE, if you have never written a letter in

your life regarding this issue, WRITE TO THE NY TIMES ON THIS ONE!!!!!!!!! The

email address for the Editor and the Ombudsman may be seen below. These

need to be in within the next three days!!!!!!

Sharon

What about the case this summer when the judge ruled against those

defense witnessses that wrote for government journals. It was also

Frey: Landmark Significance of the Ruling on April 14,

2006, Sacramento, California, regarding " Risk from inhaled mycotoxins

in indoor

office and residential environments. Int J Toxicol 2004; 23: 3-

10.Robbins CA,

Swenson LJ, Hardin BD. (Veritox, 2004). The courts have found Veritox

2004 is

Dear Friends,

Below is an article in the New York Times today. It is regarding Dr.

Johanning not being able to testify based on a Frye hearing. It is the marketing

of

the concept that the serious illnesses we are experiencing are not caused by

excessive exposure to molds/mycotoxins and other microbial contaminants

within an indoor environment, that hampers us in getting treatment and allows

others to unknowingly be put in an environmentally hazardous situation.

We can all complain to each other about how awful this is, or we can write

to those who are unwittingly promoting this false concept.

In fairness to Mr. Romano, the author of the following horrid NY Times

article, he did attempt to get some more plaintiff friendly input when the

plaintiff attorney would not return his calls.

It does make a difference to voice your concerns. Please take 10 minutes and

write to the New York Times.

The letters written to the AAAAI for their erroneous position statement have

helped to bring the matter to light. Primarily because they chose not to

retract even after being shown their mold position statement was a litigation

defense argument, it has helped tremedously to illustrate the deceit and

politics of the matter.

WRITE A SHORT, POLITE, DIRECT LETTER TO THE EDITOR OF THE NEW YORK TIMES

EXPRESSING YOUR DISMAY OVER THIS ERRONEOUS ARTICLE.

The email address for the NY Times Ombudsman is:

Does The Times have an ombudsman or public editor?

Byron Calame is the public editor, the designated representative of the

newspaper's readers. His role is to address readers' comments about coverage, to

raise questions of his own and to write about such matters, in commentaries

published as often as he wishes. His column appears in the opinion pages on

Sundays, though not necessarily every week. Mr. Calame's e-mail address is

_public@..._ (mailto:public@...) . Telephone messages may be

left

at (212) 556-7652. The public editor's recent columns, with his Web journal

and a reader forum, are online at _nytimes.com/byroncalame_

(http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/thepubliceditor/pu\

bliceditorswebjour

nal/index.html) .

Letters to the Editor go to:

How may I write to the editors about news coverage or report an error?

Comments and suggestions may be e-mailed to _nytnews@..._

(mailto:nytnews@...) or telephoned toll-free to 1-888-NYT-NEWS

(1-888-698-6397). The comment or correction will reach an appropriate editor

promptly.

Ordinarily a comment about news coverage will receive an individual reply. And

we

do pay respectful attention to all messages, even those that are part of

organized letter-writing campaigns, for which we are not staffed to reply

individually. A correction generally takes two or three days to appear on Page

A2,

after fact checking.

I would suggest that letters be written to the Editor and cc'd to the

Ombudsman.

October 15, 2006

Your Home

Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold to Illness

By _JAY ROMANO_ (http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL & v1=JAY

ROMANO & fdq=19960101 & td=sysdate & sort=newest & ac=JAY ROMANO & inline=nyt-per)

A DECISION issued last month by a State Supreme Court justice in _Manhattan_

(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/classifieds/realestate/locations/newyork/newyork

city/manhattan/?inline=nyt-geo) should allow building owners, including

co-op and condominium boards, to rest a little easier about potential claims

that

indoor mold has injured an occupant of their buildings.

After a review of more than 1,000 pages of testimony and more than 70

scientific articles and books, Justice Shirley Werner Kornreich concluded that

there was insufficient evidence to support the contention that mold or a damp

indoor environment causes illness.

“This throws a lot of cold water on the notion that mold is the cause of

personal injury,†said Eva Talel, a Manhattan real estate lawyer. “And while

this isn’t going to be the last word on the subject, the decision is so

comprehensive and well thought out that other judges are not going to be anxious

to

rule differently.â€

The case was brought by Colin and Pamela Fraser on behalf of themselves and

their daughter, andra, against the 301-52 Townhouse Corporation, which

owned their co-op building. The Frasers contended that mold near windows and

doors in their apartment caused respiratory problems, a rash and fatigue. The

Frasers said that after moving into an apartment at 301 East 52nd Street in

August 1996, Mr. Fraser developed a leg rash, lethargy and congestion and

hearing, nasal and throat problems and Mrs. Fraser and their infant daughter

developed respiratory problems.

The couple said their conditions improved when the family moved out of the

apartment in 2002.

Before allowing the case to proceed to trial, Justice Kornreich ordered what

is known as a Frye hearing to determine whether the Frasers’ contention that

mold caused their health problems is “generally accepted†by scientists.

A Frye hearing, which is named after a 1923 federal case, is used to

determine whether scientific evidence supports a litigant’s theory of

liability.

After 10 days and the testimony of four experts, Justice Kornreich concluded

that while one expert testified mold or damp indoor space caused health

problems, “the scientific literature did not support his assertions.†As a

result,

Justice Kornreich dismissed the claim for personal injuries.

Three calls to Eilender, the Frasers’ lawyer, seeking comment and

information about a possible appeal, were not returned.

Brucker, the lawyer who represented the co-op in the case, said this

was the first time a Frye hearing on mold had been held in New York. “This

whole mold issue has been blown out of proportion,†Mr. Brucker said. “We

think

this is going to have a major impact on lawyers who are thinking about

bringing cases alleging injuries caused by mold. And we think that insurance

companies are now going to be more inclined to fight these cases instead of

settle

them.â€

Dennis Greenstein, a Manhattan co-op lawyer, said that while the decision was

good news for property owners concerned that they could be held liable for

injuries said to be caused by mold, they and their property managers should

still take mold problems seriously.

“People still have to do the best they can when dealing with mold and the

leaks that may cause it,†Mr. Greenstein said. He pointed out that failure to

address mold or leak problems could still leave owners exposed to lawsuits for

property damage.

Dr. ph Q. Jarvis, an expert in public health who is affiliated with the

_University of Nevada_

(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_\

of_nevada/index.html?inline=nyt-org) School of

Medicine in Reno, said he was surprised that a comprehensive review of the

medical

literature led the judge to conclude there was no consensus that mold can

cause illness. While it may not be possible to specify the level of exposure

needed to cause a problem, he said, it is well documented that exposure to

indoor mold can cause respiratory allergies in some people.

[FYI, Joe Jarvis is an expert defense witness in mold litigation. Attached

is a copy of the judge's actual ruling.]

Sharon

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/16/2006 6:19:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

ldelp84227@... writes:

What research do we give these reporters. Here is one I wrote to an

author of an article that was posted last week from Building

Materials and Mold. Below. I would like to write her back but was

not sure what to give her.

It sounds like you didn't read the article. I talked to a couple who

had health problems due to mold in their house, but I can't ignore

the fact that the link is unproven by research.

Hildebrandt

Business writer

Argus Leader

200 S. Minnesota Ave.

P.O. Box 5034

Sioux Falls, SD 57117

605-331-2322

Hi ,

Of course I read the article. And all 38 pages of the judge's ruling.

There is an error in the article, and it is the false premise as to why this

article was supposedly written. This court ruling is being presented as the

first Frye hearing over mold in NY. This is a false statement.

The defense attorney misspoke regarding Frye and the state of New York.

" Brucker, the lawyer who represented the co-op in the case, said this

was the first time a Frye hearing on mold had been held in New York "

This is not the first Frye hearing regarding mold within the state of New

York.

Frye Hr’g Proceeding at 14-15, v. Henry Phipps Plaza South, Assocs.

(N.Y. Sup. Ct. Oct. 11, 2001) (No. 116331/98).

The NY Times got punk'd. This is simply a marketing piece to propagate to

the world that these illnesses we are all experieincing are not caused by mold

in buildings. (also known as location of stakeholder liability).

Write about the illnesses you are experiencing!

Sharon

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/17/2006 3:57:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

toriaquilts@... writes:

do you know how many of us have written in, sharon? i just wrote a letter

this morning.

thanks, vicki

Vicki, no I don't know how many. I am only aware of about three. This is

horrible. The NY Times writes a piece that goes out all across the country

that will be read by potential jurors, judges and physicians. The article

stands to have a VERY negative impact on the future of many on this board.

Yet,

only three people can muster the ability to write a no more than 150 word

letter?

Sometimes I think we have no one to blame but ourselves. How can we

possibly think anyone will hear, if we are not willing to speak to them? This

one

is a BIGGIE!!!

Thanks for doing that, Vicki,

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Yes

I would like to know how many of us wrote a letter?

I wrote yesterday

Sylgja

Do you know how many of us have written in, sharon? i just wrote a letter

this morning.

thanks, vicki

Yep. Yet, this is one of the bogus papers that the judge in New York relied

upon to form her conclusion. PLEASE, if you have never written a letter in

your life regarding this issue, WRITE TO THE NY TIMES ON THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!

The

email address for the Editor and the Ombudsman may be seen below. These

need to be in within the next three days!!!!!!

Sharon

What about the case this summer when the judge ruled against those

defense witnessses that wrote for government journals. It was also

Frey: Landmark Significance of the Ruling on April 14,

2006, Sacramento, California, regarding " Risk from inhaled mycotoxins

in indoor

office and residential environments. Int J Toxicol 2004; 23: 3-

10.Robbins CA,

Swenson LJ, Hardin BD. (Veritox, 2004). The courts have found Veritox

2004 is

Dear Friends,

Below is an article in the New York Times today. It is regarding Dr.

Johanning not being able to testify based on a Frye hearing. It is the

marketing of

the concept that the serious illnesses we are experiencing are not caused by

excessive exposure to molds/mycotoxins and other microbial contaminants

within an indoor environment, that hampers us in getting treatment and

allows

others to unknowingly be put in an environmentally hazardous situation.

We can all complain to each other about how awful this is, or we can write

to those who are unwittingly promoting this false concept.

In fairness to Mr. Romano, the author of the following horrid NY Times

article, he did attempt to get some more plaintiff friendly input when the

plaintiff attorney would not return his calls.

It does make a difference to voice your concerns. Please take 10 minutes and

write to the New York Times.

The letters written to the AAAAI for their erroneous position statement have

helped to bring the matter to light. Primarily because they chose not to

retract even after being shown their mold position statement was a

litigation

defense argument, it has helped tremedously to illustrate the deceit and

politics of the matter.

WRITE A SHORT, POLITE, DIRECT LETTER TO THE EDITOR OF THE NEW YORK TIMES

EXPRESSING YOUR DISMAY OVER THIS ERRONEOUS ARTICLE.

The email address for the NY Times Ombudsman is:

Does The Times have an ombudsman or public editor?

Byron Calame is the public editor, the designated representative of the

newspaper's readers. His role is to address readers' comments about

coverage, to

raise questions of his own and to write about such matters, in commentaries

published as often as he wishes. His column appears in the opinion pages on

Sundays, though not necessarily every week. Mr. Calame's e-mail address is

_publicnytimes (DOT) <mailto:_public%40nytimes.com> com_ (mailto:publicnytimes (DOT)

<mailto:public%40nytimes.com> com) . Telephone messages may be left

at (212) 556-7652. The public editor's recent columns, with his Web journal

and a reader forum, are online at _nytimes.com/byroncalame_

(http://forums.

<http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/thepublicedito

r/publiceditorswebjour>

nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/thepubliceditor/publiceditors

webjour

nal/index.html) .

Letters to the Editor go to:

How may I write to the editors about news coverage or report an error?

Comments and suggestions may be e-mailed to _nytnewsnytimes (DOT)

<mailto:_nytnews%40nytimes.com> com_

(mailto:nytnewsnytimes (DOT) <mailto:nytnews%40nytimes.com> com) or telephoned

toll-free to 1-888-NYT-NEWS

(1-888-698-6397). The comment or correction will reach an appropriate editor

promptly.

Ordinarily a comment about news coverage will receive an individual reply.

And we

do pay respectful attention to all messages, even those that are part of

organized letter-writing campaigns, for which we are not staffed to reply

individually. A correction generally takes two or three days to appear on

Page A2,

after fact checking.

I would suggest that letters be written to the Editor and cc'd to the

Ombudsman.

October 15, 2006

Your Home

Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold to Illness

By _JAY ROMANO_ (http://query.

<http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL & v1=JAY>

nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL & v1=JAY

ROMANO & fdq=19960101 & td=sysdate & sort=newest & ac=JAY ROMANO & inline=nyt-per)

A DECISION issued last month by a State Supreme Court justice in _Manhattan_

(http://topics.

<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/classifieds/realestate/locations/newyork/newy

ork> nytimes.com/top/classifieds/realestate/locations/newyork/newyork

city/manhattan/?inline=nyt-geo) should allow building owners, including

co-op and condominium boards, to rest a little easier about potential claims

that

indoor mold has injured an occupant of their buildings.

After a review of more than 1,000 pages of testimony and more than 70

scientific articles and books, Justice Shirley Werner Kornreich concluded

that

there was insufficient evidence to support the contention that mold or a

damp

indoor environment causes illness.

" This throws a lot of cold water on the notion that mold is the cause of

personal injury, " said Eva Talel, a Manhattan real estate lawyer. " And while

this isn't going to be the last word on the subject, the decision is so

comprehensive and well thought out that other judges are not going to be

anxious to

rule differently. "

The case was brought by Colin and Pamela Fraser on behalf of themselves and

their daughter, andra, against the 301-52 Townhouse Corporation, which

owned their co-op building. The Frasers contended that mold near windows and

doors in their apartment caused respiratory problems, a rash and fatigue.

The

Frasers said that after moving into an apartment at 301 East 52nd Street in

August 1996, Mr. Fraser developed a leg rash, lethargy and congestion and

hearing, nasal and throat problems and Mrs. Fraser and their infant daughter

developed respiratory problems.

The couple said their conditions improved when the family moved out of the

apartment in 2002.

Before allowing the case to proceed to trial, Justice Kornreich ordered what

is known as a Frye hearing to determine whether the Frasers' contention that

mold caused their health problems is " generally accepted " by scientists.

A Frye hearing, which is named after a 1923 federal case, is used to

determine whether scientific evidence supports a litigant's theory of

liability.

After 10 days and the testimony of four experts, Justice Kornreich concluded

that while one expert testified mold or damp indoor space caused health

problems, " the scientific literature did not support his assertions. " As a

result,

Justice Kornreich dismissed the claim for personal injuries.

Three calls to Eilender, the Frasers' lawyer, seeking comment and

information about a possible appeal, were not returned.

Brucker, the lawyer who represented the co-op in the case, said this

was the first time a Frye hearing on mold had been held in New York. " This

whole mold issue has been blown out of proportion, " Mr. Brucker said. " We

think

this is going to have a major impact on lawyers who are thinking about

bringing cases alleging injuries caused by mold. And we think that insurance

companies are now going to be more inclined to fight these cases instead of

settle

them. "

Dennis Greenstein, a Manhattan co-op lawyer, said that while the decision

was

good news for property owners concerned that they could be held liable for

injuries said to be caused by mold, they and their property managers should

still take mold problems seriously.

" People still have to do the best they can when dealing with mold and the

leaks that may cause it, " Mr. Greenstein said. He pointed out that failure

to

address mold or leak problems could still leave owners exposed to lawsuits

for

property damage.

Dr. ph Q. Jarvis, an expert in public health who is affiliated with the

_University of Nevada_

(http://topics.

<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/univers

ity_of_nevada/index.html?inline=nyt-org>

nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_nevada/i

ndex.html?inline=nyt-org) School of

Medicine in Reno, said he was surprised that a comprehensive review of the

medical

literature led the judge to conclude there was no consensus that mold can

cause illness. While it may not be possible to specify the level of exposure

needed to cause a problem, he said, it is well documented that exposure to

indoor mold can cause respiratory allergies in some people.

[FYI, Joe Jarvis is an expert defense witness in mold litigation. Attached

is a copy of the judge's actual ruling.]

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Sharon: I am working on a letter as this email came across.

With much respect,

Doug Haney

>From: snk1955@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: [] Re: Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold to

>Illness WRITE TO...

>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:25:43 EDT

>

>

>In a message dated 10/17/2006 3:57:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

>toriaquilts@... writes:

>

>do you know how many of us have written in, sharon? i just wrote a letter

>this morning.

>

>thanks, vicki

>

>

>Vicki, no I don't know how many. I am only aware of about three. This

>is

>horrible. The NY Times writes a piece that goes out all across the

>country

>that will be read by potential jurors, judges and physicians. The article

>stands to have a VERY negative impact on the future of many on this board.

> Yet,

>only three people can muster the ability to write a no more than 150 word

>letter?

>

>Sometimes I think we have no one to blame but ourselves. How can we

>possibly think anyone will hear, if we are not willing to speak to them?

>This one

>is a BIGGIE!!!

>

>Thanks for doing that, Vicki,

>Sharon

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-has anyone gotten a responce letter other than the thank you for

your comments one?-- In , snk1955@...

wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 10/17/2006 3:57:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> toriaquilts@... writes:

>

> do you know how many of us have written in, sharon? i just wrote a

letter

> this morning.

>

> thanks, vicki

>

>

> Vicki, no I don't know how many. I am only aware of about

three. This is

> horrible. The NY Times writes a piece that goes out all across

the country

> that will be read by potential jurors, judges and physicians. The

article

> stands to have a VERY negative impact on the future of many on

this board. Yet,

> only three people can muster the ability to write a no more than

150 word

> letter?

>

> Sometimes I think we have no one to blame but ourselves. How can

we

> possibly think anyone will hear, if we are not willing to speak to

them? This one

> is a BIGGIE!!!

>

> Thanks for doing that, Vicki,

> Sharon

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sue,

Yes, we do need these, too. I think we need at least 10,000 before Jan 22,

2007. Can we do it? If only half on this board, which would be about 900,

got 11 people to sign. We would be there easy. And we have many other sister

groups that could also help.

In a message dated 10/17/2006 9:40:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

thecanaries@... writes:

We can use our online petition as a valuable tool in this fight if we can

get the number of signatures that convey the reality. Besides Washington, we

can send it to The New York Times, Oprah, etc. Does anyone have any ideas on

getting the word out to others outside this group? Can anyone help me promote

it?

_http://www.petitionhttp://www.http://wwhttp://wwhttp_

(http://www.petitiononline.com/canaries/petition.html)

Sue

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

I wrote him yesterday - I received a form email

response that stated that all emails were read-

[Guest guest]

I received a form email

response that stated that all emails were read

Same here

KC

--- In , Madeska <madeskv@...>

wrote:

>

> I wrote him yesterday - I received a form email

> response that stated that all emails were read-

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i'm trying too, guys......

vicki

Re: [] Re: Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold to Illness

WRITE TO...

Sue,

Yes, we do need these, too. I think we need at least 10,000 before Jan 22,

2007. Can we do it? If only half on this board, which would be about 900,

got 11 people to sign. We would be there easy. And we have many other sister

groups that could also help.

In a message dated 10/17/2006 9:40:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

thecanaries@... writes:

We can use our online petition as a valuable tool in this fight if we can

get the number of signatures that convey the reality. Besides Washington, we

can send it to The New York Times, Oprah, etc. Does anyone have any ideas on

getting the word out to others outside this group? Can anyone help me promote

it?

_http://www.petitionhttp://www.http://wwhttp://wwhttp_

(http://www.petitiononline.com/canaries/petition.html)

Sue

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU, DOUG & SHARON, TOO, FOR DOING ALLLLLLLLLL THAT YOU'RE DOING!! I'm

trying very hard to get others to write letters & sign that petition, too, but

you know how it is....people are CHICKEN, for one thing. (What MORE can we

lose?)

Vicki :>(

Re: [] Re: Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold to

>Illness WRITE TO...

>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:25:43 EDT

>

>

>In a message dated 10/17/2006 3:57:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

>toriaquilts@... writes:

>

>do you know how many of us have written in, sharon? i just wrote a letter

>this morning.

>

>thanks, vicki

>

>

>Vicki, no I don't know how many. I am only aware of about three. This

>is

>horrible. The NY Times writes a piece that goes out all across the

>country

>that will be read by potential jurors, judges and physicians. The article

>stands to have a VERY negative impact on the future of many on this board.

> Yet,

>only three people can muster the ability to write a no more than 150 word

>letter?

>

>Sometimes I think we have no one to blame but ourselves. How can we

>possibly think anyone will hear, if we are not willing to speak to them?

>This one

>is a BIGGIE!!!

>

>Thanks for doing that, Vicki,

>Sharon

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The Times is pretty broad minded. If you don't

get desired response from person's name you have,

perhaps the Editor, or President of New York

Times, or " Letter to the Editor " , asking for a

article of equal position in the Times for

opposite side of this story.

--- Madeska <madeskv@...> wrote:

> I wrote him yesterday - I received a form email

> response that stated that all emails were read-

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Many people join groups and leave but never

bother to 'unjoin' and frequently that is reason

for high membership numbers. I think number of

people posting is more reflective of today's

membership. However perhaps KC or Sharon would

be willing to put info on petition on special

notice format, and may get a few more people that

way, who don't read regularly but do get special

notices. I don't imagine active reading

membership is that much above the number of

active posters but " I could be wrong " ...

--- snk1955@... wrote:

>

> Sue,

>

> Yes, we do need these, too. I think we need at

> least 10,000 before Jan 22,

> 2007. Can we do it? If only half on this

> board, which would be about 900,

>

[Guest guest]

WOW,

How I understand Christi Oh How I understand and YES I do believe you this and

more has happen to me what a sick world we live in this is why I think. Our

Politicians all need to go and replaced with young blood that has a mine of

their own unlike their Parents and Good Doctors need to start reporting the Bad

one.

especially in Mental Health many Doctors has become nothing more than legal drug

dealer for the Drug Companies if you fine a Doctor like that report him or her,

that's the great thing about the internet. you learn how to by pass and get

strait to the Top can this be the reason Politicians wants us all on Government

Health care?!. Hummmm I agree the Public does need to hear you case and all

other's I was Kidnapped from my Hospital Bed in 2004 2 times over the Mold

issue.

I do understand, they had my friend do it once thank God for the cell Phone then

I had to call 911 to get to ER I couldn't drive myself. when the Doctor come I

told him I was suffering from sick house, he said oh you get want a law suit so

I said to him I feel sorry for your Patients. He looked at me so funny like he

know what I said was true I told them I didn't want him to touch me so they said

I have to leave the Hospital our let him.

I said 911 brought me in, I have a car, then I said let him come I'm to sick for

this, he come over wanted to battle with me so I closed my eye's and fold my

hand across my chest. the Doctor started press down into my chest very hard

because I didn't want to fight with him. Just as I was about to take my fist and

knock the dog do out of him the male nurse walked up and ask him what was he

doing he clame I wasn't responding. I wasn't there to fight I was there because

I couldn't breath the the male nurse told me they had to keep me I said I know

that when they brought me in.

So you see Christi you are not a lone ranger but some way some how we shall ride

again never give up no matter what, I'm wondering if you are on HUD or renting

it sure sound like it.

Peace

Elvira

Re: [] Re: Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold to Illness

WRITE TO...

In a message dated 10/17/2006 3:57:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

toriaquilts@... writes:

do you know how many of us have written in, sharon? i just wrote a letter

this morning.

thanks, vicki

Vicki, no I don't know how many. I am only aware of about three. This is

horrible. The NY Times writes a piece that goes out all across the country

that will be read by potential jurors, judges and physicians. The article

stands to have a VERY negative impact on the future of many on this board.

Yet,

only three people can muster the ability to write a no more than 150 word

letter?

Sometimes I think we have no one to blame but ourselves. How can we

possibly think anyone will hear, if we are not willing to speak to them? This

one

is a BIGGIE!!!

Thanks for doing that, Vicki,

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Guess what? You are wrong. lol There are many people on this board

who do not actively post, but will occasionaly post a few times here

or there. There are also many people that because of litigation do

not post but will act behind the scenes. Not to mention all the

professionals who for various reasons choose not to post, but to

watch and learn from the board itself. Not to mention alot of new

people who feel more comfortable in watching for a while to see how

things go.

Hope this helps to set some of the record straight on our membership.

Sharon C.

>

> >

> > Sue,

> >

> > Yes, we do need these, too. I think we need at

> > least 10,000 before Jan 22,

> > 2007. Can we do it? If only half on this

> > board, which would be about 900,

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'd be happy to have friends, family, neighbors sign a petition. I know I

could get a whole lot more than 11!

Sue

Sue,

Yes, we do need these, too. I think we need at least 10,000 before Jan 22,

2007. Can we do it? If only half on this board, which would be about 900,

got 11 people to sign. We would be there easy. And we have many other sister

groups that could also help.

[Guest guest]

Okay, I sent my letter to the NY Times.

To the Editor:

I am perplexed as to why the Frye ruling in the case of Fraser v 301-52

Townhouse Corp has been so highly publicized by the media and in the New York

Times article entitled " Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold Illness. "

It was a lower court ruling, and contrary to what has been presented in the

New York Times, it is not the first Frye hearing over the mold issue. Frye Hr’

g Proceeding at 14-15, v. Henry Phipps Plaza South, Assocs.(N.Y. Sup.

Ct. (Oct. 11, 2001)

The treating physicians, who treat mold illnesses, have been challenged many

times in New York courts. I am not aware of any being disallowed to testify

to the legitimacy of allergic or irritant reactions, as is illustrated in the

case of Netti vs. Auburn Enlarged City School District, Sept 2006.

What is novel about this particular case, is that the judge disallowed the

plaintiffs an opportunity to present their case before a jury. This is based

on the judge's own novel and non medically educated opinion. No one else's.

Not even the defense experts argued mold does not cause allergic or irritant

reactions.

There is not a medical professional out there these days who do not believe

mold may cause serious illness in small children. To quote from the Centers

for Disease Control, " If you can see or smell mold, a health risk may be

present. You do not need to know the type of mold growing in your home...you

should remove it. Since the effect of mold on people can vary greatly, either

because of the amount or type of mold, you can not rely on sampling and

culturing to know your health risk. "

Mold illnesses are caused by a rotting of the surrounding environment.

Based on this judge's findings and the atypical amount of publicity given these

findings, I am inclined to believe that an old adage would apply " Something is

rotten in State of Denmark " and " Something is rotten in the State of New

York. "

Sincerely,

Mrs. Kramer

Escondido, CA

[Guest guest]

I'm glad to hear that!

--- tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote:

> Guess what? You are wrong. lol There are many

> people on this board

> who do not actively post, but will occasionaly

> post a few times here

> or there.

[Guest guest]

Let me try and clarify this a little more concerning our numbers.

does inform me every time someone either joins or leaves the

group. The ones that are leaving a high percentage of the time I

have no idea who they are because they have never posted. lets

me know of new members in the last 7 days that have joined and I

have seen this number as high as 35 and on a constant basis it stays

between 10-20. I've only seen it once or twice around 5.

I try an keep our members list as ligit as possible. Any spammers of

any kind, salesmen, or others who just don't belong and I can tell

sometimes by their profile, are removed immediately. I don't have to

do this I can just keep them from posting and let the members list

keep climbing. Many boards to that, I will not. Another reason some

are under two email addresses, for what ever reason. Many just lurk.

But we also know we have many professionals on this board, including

all forms of industry, insurance companies, government agencies,

health related, lawyers (for both sides), doctors, etc., who prefer

to remain quiet. I may receive an email where they want me to brouch

a subject on the board, this way their names are not out there and

they wait for the responses. And yes, I'm sure some have left the

board and didn't unsubscribe. But if their email (posts, digest)

keep bouncing removes them from their various groups and that

has not happened in quite some time.

So there really isn't any simple rhyme or reason why we do not have

more signatures. Just like myself in the very beginning when you are

dealing with litigation sometimes you are a bit more parnoid on

speaking out. I think this has always been a problem, because this

is nothing to be ashamed of. And we have remained quiet for too

long.

Hope this helps,

KC

> >

> > >

> > > Sue,

> > >

> > > Yes, we do need these, too. I think we need at

> > > least 10,000 before Jan 22,

> > > 2007. Can we do it? If only half on this

> > > board, which would be about 900,

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

KC, Yes. I totally agree with you. We need to voice as a group, be strong and

united with what we believe in. We shouldn't keep quiet as we continue to see

our health decline, we should be louder than ever. I know I haven't been on the

group for too long, with my own personal experience the sicker I become, the

more I want to be heard and want to help anyone else if I can. Darlene

tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote: Let me

try and clarify this a little more concerning our numbers.

does inform me every time someone either joins or leaves the

group. The ones that are leaving a high percentage of the time I

have no idea who they are because they have never posted. lets

me know of new members in the last 7 days that have joined and I

have seen this number as high as 35 and on a constant basis it stays

between 10-20. I've only seen it once or twice around 5.

I try an keep our members list as ligit as possible. Any spammers of

any kind, salesmen, or others who just don't belong and I can tell

sometimes by their profile, are removed immediately. I don't have to

do this I can just keep them from posting and let the members list

keep climbing. Many boards to that, I will not. Another reason some

are under two email addresses, for what ever reason. Many just lurk.

But we also know we have many professionals on this board, including

all forms of industry, insurance companies, government agencies,

health related, lawyers (for both sides), doctors, etc., who prefer

to remain quiet. I may receive an email where they want me to brouch

a subject on the board, this way their names are not out there and

they wait for the responses. And yes, I'm sure some have left the

board and didn't unsubscribe. But if their email (posts, digest)

keep bouncing removes them from their various groups and that

has not happened in quite some time.

So there really isn't any simple rhyme or reason why we do not have

more signatures. Just like myself in the very beginning when you are

dealing with litigation sometimes you are a bit more parnoid on

speaking out. I think this has always been a problem, because this

is nothing to be ashamed of. And we have remained quiet for too

long.

Hope this helps,

KC

> >

> > >

> > > Sue,

> > >

> > > Yes, we do need these, too. I think we need at

> > > least 10,000 before Jan 22,

> > > 2007. Can we do it? If only half on this

> > > board, which would be about 900,

> > >

> >

>

---------------------------------

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

GOOD LETTER, SHARON, THANK YOU!

V.

Re: [] Re: Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold to Illness

WRITE TO...

Okay, I sent my letter to the NY Times.

To the Editor:

I am perplexed as to why the Frye ruling in the case of Fraser v 301-52

Townhouse Corp has been so highly publicized by the media and in the New York

Times article entitled " Court Rebuffs a Suit Linking Mold Illness. "

It was a lower court ruling, and contrary to what has been presented in the

New York Times, it is not the first Frye hearing over the mold issue. Frye

Hr’

g Proceeding at 14-15, v. Henry Phipps Plaza South, Assocs.(N.Y. Sup.

Ct. (Oct. 11, 2001)

The treating physicians, who treat mold illnesses, have been challenged many

times in New York courts. I am not aware of any being disallowed to testify

to the legitimacy of allergic or irritant reactions, as is illustrated in the

case of Netti vs. Auburn Enlarged City School District, Sept 2006.

What is novel about this particular case, is that the judge disallowed the

plaintiffs an opportunity to present their case before a jury. This is based

on the judge's own novel and non medically educated opinion. No one else's.

Not even the defense experts argued mold does not cause allergic or irritant

reactions.

There is not a medical professional out there these days who do not believe

mold may cause serious illness in small children. To quote from the Centers

for Disease Control, " If you can see or smell mold, a health risk may be

present. You do not need to know the type of mold growing in your home...you

should remove it. Since the effect of mold on people can vary greatly, either

because of the amount or type of mold, you can not rely on sampling and

culturing to know your health risk. "

Mold illnesses are caused by a rotting of the surrounding environment.

Based on this judge's findings and the atypical amount of publicity given

these

findings, I am inclined to believe that an old adage would apply " Something is

rotten in State of Denmark " and " Something is rotten in the State of New

York. "

Sincerely,

Mrs. Kramer

Escondido, CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/21/2006 10:42:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

quackadillian@... writes:

I think that the powers that be, as it were, probably laugh at petitions as

they don't carry any force of real action behind them.

In China, Beijing is filled with petitioners who trudge around from

government building to government building, presenting petitions to people

in windows whose main function is to take them. They don't change anything.

Increasingly, the same is true here.

The thing they hate is things that will hurt their income stream from

lobbyists.. etc. Politicians also really don't like anything that embarasses

them on a massive scale.

Media attention to issues that makes it clear that they are NOT doing what

they are supposed to do.

Petitions are usually only signed by the already converted.. they don't

represent people CHANGING their opinions so much as people who already have

them...

Not that they are useless. But I don't think that they are as good a use of

time or energy as indiviual letters and especially, media-savvy action..

I agree that you can't just forward a petition and expect results, it's a

matter of presentation. How one says " in addition, I have in my hand, 10,000

signatures " . WE DO NEED SUE'S PETITION TO BE FILLED OUT BY MANY!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

It is very important to maintain any type of documentation that can reflect

the increasing numbers of individuals whose lives have been affected by mold

exposure. Until " we " can come up with a better idea of a document that might

help us, as many people as possible affected by mold should sign.

By the way, if you do not think petitions can be effective in creating

change, check out what happened to the last California Governor, Gray .

For

those that are unfamiliar with this, Gray was removed from office. It

all started with a petition to recall him.

Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME

In a message dated 10/21/2006 1:33:57 PM Central Standard Time,

snk1955@... writes:

In a message dated 10/21/2006 10:42:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

_quackadillian@quackadil_ (mailto:quackadillian@...) writes:

I think that the powers that be, as it were, probably laugh at petitions as

they don't carry any force of real action behind them.

In China, Beijing is filled with petitioners who trudge around from

government building to government building, presenting petitions to people

in windows whose main function is to take them. They don't change anything.

Increasingly, the same is true here.

The thing they hate is things that will hurt their income stream from

lobbyists.. etc. Politicians also really don't like anything that embarasses

them on a massive scale.

Media attention to issues that makes it clear that they are NOT doing what

they are supposed to do.

Petitions are usually only signed by the already converted.. they don't

represent people CHANGING their opinions so much as people who already have

them...

Not that they are useless. But I don't think that they are as good a use of

time or energy as indiviual letters and especially, media-savvy action..

I agree that you can't just forward a petition and expect results, it's a

matter of presentation. How one says " in addition, I have in my hand, 10,000

signatures " . WE DO NEED SUE'S PETITION TO BE FILLED OUT BY MANY!!!!!!!!si

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Guest guest]

Quackadillian, (or whoever you are since you do not seem to identify

yourself)

The point being that petitions can be effective in producing change.

What most people are unaware of is that Gray was responsible for what

became the -Stirling Act. This act systematically took away the rights

of homeowners living in homeowner associations. Anyone that purchased these

deed-restricted properties (condos, gated communities etc) lost the right to

Homestead that property. In addition, these homeowners lost the right to

judicial foreclosure and many other rights as well which I will not get into

here. I will not even begin to touch on the toxic mold issue taking place in

many HOAs today that is further destroying peoples lives. Most homeowners

living in associations are clueless until something goes wrong and by that time

it is to late.

Countless homeowners living in associations had their homes stolen from them

for something as minor as being late on a $125 assessment. Their homes were

foreclosed upon them by the associations without ever going to court. So as

far as I am concerned, impeaching Gray was the right thing to do.

Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME

In a message dated 10/21/2006 10:47:36 PM Central Standard Time,

quackadillian@... writes:

I don't think Schwatznegger is an improvement over Gray , by any

means. I do agree that often, both the Democrats and Republicans in

many cases, become complacent over support from some groups. Thats a

big problem.

Politicians are completely out of touch with human beings in many

ways. They care more about special interest groups like the

pharmaceutical, insurance and real estate industries..p

By the way, if you do not think petitions can be effective in creating

change, check out what happened to the last California Governor, Gray .

For

those that are unfamiliar with this, Gray was removed from office. It

all started with a petition to recall him.

Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME

In a message dated 10/21/2006 10:42:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

_quackadillian@_quackadillian@<WBR_quackadillian@quackadil_

(mailto:quackadillian@...) ) writes:

I think that the powers that be, as it were, probably laugh at petitions as

they don't carry any force of real action behind them.

In China, Beijing is filled with petitioners who trudge around from

government building to government building, presenting petitions to people

in windows whose main function is to take them. They don't change anything.

Increasingly, the same is true here.

The thing they hate is things that will hurt their income stream from

lobbyists.. etc. Politicians also really don't like anything that embarasses

them on a massive scale.

Media attention to issues that makes it clear that they are NOT doing what

they are supposed to do.

Petitions are usually only signed by the already converted.. they don't

represent people CHANGING their opinions so much as people who already have

them...

Not that they are useless. But I don't think that they are as good a use of

time or energy as indiviual letters and especially, media-savvy action..

In a message dated 10/21/2006 1:33:57 PM Central Standard Time,

_snk1955@..._ (mailto:snk1955@...) writes:

I agree that you can't just forward a petition and expect results, it's a

matter of presentation. How one says " in addition, I have in my hand, 10,000

signatures " . WE DO NEED SUE'S PETITION TO BE FILLED OUT BY MANY!!!!!!!!si

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/21/2006 10:55:02 PM Central Standard Time,

quackadillian@... writes:

I guess the point that I was making was that people need to do much

more than 'sign' an online petition to effect real change, and that

often, the perverse nature of our current system means that change we

might manage to effect could have unintended, very unwanted effects..

if they occur without any of the needed context..

For example, I think that when the gatekeepers of 'respectibility' in

the medical establishment accept that toxic mold causes permanent

injuries and kills people, I expect that thousands of landlords will

use that as an excuse to tear down their buildings and/or convert them

to condos.. rather than do whatever is required to make them safe,

however inexpensively that might be able to be done.. (If society was

to put our heads together on that..)

Yes, that means that bad landlords who have hurt people, knowingly,

for years mght actually end up being rewarded for the way they have

poisoned people..

Thats just the way things appear to work in this country much of the

time. I would love to be proved wrong.. I don't like being this

cynical. But that is what I worry..

I have actually done far better than the average in my own dealings

with bureaucracy.with bureaucracy.<WBR>. they have actually list

But there is a HARD AND FAST limit to what they CAN do and that limit

is not very realistic in light of the toxicity of these situations and

the incredible advantages landlords and sellers are given in America

to do what they want with their properties.. There is not much we can

do to prevent them from hiding the truth - and poisoning people..

nudge nudge wink wink..

There need to be some MUCH STRONGER RULES THAT THEY MUST ACCEPT IF

THEY ARE GOING TO RENT OR SELL HOMES...

For example, there should be maintenance logs for properties that

landlords need to keep.. If the estimated lifetime of a particular

kind of roof is ten years, and a roof has not been replaced in twenty

five years, there should be a rebuttable presumption in court that it

is probably leaky.. and that a mold lawsuit based on this situation

making people sick is probably justified.. They should not have to

prove that it killed somebody.. some child..

Also, we need a recognition that mold illness ruins lives and health..

That quality of life and incremental health issues are life

changing... That you don't get a second life.. that years when you

are in your 20s and 30s cant be replaced.. That a stumble at the wrong

time can ruin a career..

Right now, basically, each person is completely on their own - alone on

this..

Hell, " they are just trying to 'earn' a (dis) honest buck " , right..