Re: Leaving Moldy Place/Withdrawal Symptoms?

October 17, 2006

This is an old post about 'withdrawal symptoms'

after leaving moldy place. Do you think it could

be caused by the immune system starting to come

back and fighting the mold and toxins in your

body, where before it was suppressed??

--- Angel!! <jap2bemc@...> wrote:

>

> I do no tthink that advocated

> " withdrawal " symptoms. I beleive in

> my interpreation of her theory is that instead

> of *craving* something the

> barin avoids it.

>

October 17, 2006

-no, I thinkit has to do with the brain.can you suffer withdrawel

symptoms if you get out before you suffer from TILT and MCS? I cant say

because I didn't get out before that happened.I have read where TILT is

now being considered as a symptom of MCS, makes sence to me because

thats what happened to me.maybe when you get to the point where your

liver can no longer detox, your immune system malfunctions. this has to

have something to do with the continuing of build up in the system of

toxins because the liver is damaged and the repeated boughts of getting

wore down and fevers getting worse and a lot of night sweats off and on

even though I practice advoidence.constant sinus problems and I fell

like my whole world is toxic to me.even trying to practice advoidence

can not be tottally without exposures when you have severe MCS,I'm not

going to stop letting my family come over and my daughters are trying

to finish callage, that means that I am needed to babyset quite often,I

may not be good for much else but I will do that and what ever I can.

its not always easy, sometimes I have to fight to stay awake.smells on

thier cloths can make just hugging them a set back for me. I live in

the corn belt and i'm realizeing the difference in even outdoor

invironments can be so different for all of us that advice one gives

may be bad advice for another. I have also realized just how different

our exposure can be. just like dust is different mile for mile and that

dust enters our homes on top of the dust our homes create itself which

can be full of chemicals. mold eats on this dust and off gases whatever

it eats into the air we breath. needless to say, the chemicals that

have been in your home forever might not ever be inhaled until you have

a mold problem. mold eats it and releases it into your air,and it

attaches to the mold spores you breath. a nail will not rust without

mold, water alone does not make a nail rust, just because you dont see

it doesn't mean its not there.than airborne the mold and rust enters

your lungs. I dont think anyone can be exposed to even just one mold

without inhaling whatever that mold was feeding on, thus, makeing the

possabilitys endless of what else we are inhaleing and how it affects

us. old home,new home, outdoor environments mile for mile, it enters

your home.with MCS tap water and foods can play hell with us.I can't

afford to buy bottled water and i have my doughts as to weather its

much better.chemicals have different effects to different parts of the

body, so do different molds.with MCS it all constantly builds up in the

system. no one hear can have all the answers or cures, we just need to

be open to others exposures and try to look at the big picture and be

supportive of one another. it really bothers me when people try to push

their beliefs on someone else when you cannot know what what the other

has experienced.

I think most of us are suffering enough because of the lack of

understanding we recieve in our own lives.

-- In , bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

>

> This is an old post about 'withdrawal symptoms'

> after leaving moldy place. Do you think it could

> be caused by the immune system starting to come

> back and fighting the mold and toxins in your

> body, where before it was suppressed??

>

> --- Angel!! <jap2bemc@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > I do no tthink that advocated

> > " withdrawal " symptoms. I beleive in

> > my interpreation of her theory is that instead

> > of *craving* something the

> > barin avoids it.

> >

>

October 17, 2006

Can I ask what is TILT?

Thanks, Sue

-no, I thinkit has to do with the brain.can you suffer withdrawel

symptoms if you get out before you suffer from TILT and MCS? I cant say

because I didn't get out before that happened.I have read where TILT is

now being considered as a symptom of MCS, makes sence to me because

thats what happened to me.maybe when you get to the point where your

liver can no longer detox, your immune system malfunctions. this has to

have something to do with the continuing of build up in the system of

October 17, 2006

In a message dated 10/17/2006 2:06:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

ssr3351@... writes:

Can I ask what is TILT?

TILT. Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance. . As I

understand it, Dr. studies alcoholics as one of her areas. She has

observed a

loss of tolerance. She has equated that with other toxics. That in my

understanding, BUT I COULD BE WRONG.

October 17, 2006

-toxicant induced loss of tolerance, search ' '

first described as a better description of multiple chemical

sensativity, now looking like it will be turmed as a symptom of MCS, -

- In , ssr3351@... wrote:

>

> Can I ask what is TILT?

>

> Thanks, Sue

>

> -no, I thinkit has to do with the brain.can you suffer withdrawel

> symptoms if you get out before you suffer from TILT and MCS? I cant

say

> because I didn't get out before that happened.I have read where

TILT is

> now being considered as a symptom of MCS, makes sence to me

because

> thats what happened to me.maybe when you get to the point where

your

> liver can no longer detox, your immune system malfunctions. this

has to

> have something to do with the continuing of build up in the system

of

>

October 17, 2006

Mold gets 'gas' from what it eat and we inhale

that??

Which reminds me is 'rust' a type of mold? I've

seen sentences that refer to 'rusts and molds' as

if they are related or something. My central a/c

is full of rust. I haven't seem any mold but the

pan is pure rust. Another indoor air health

problem I wonder?

--- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

> -no, I thinkit has to do with the brain.can you

> suffer withdrawel

> symptoms if you get out before you suffer from

> TILT and MCS? I cant say

> because I didn't get out before that happened.I

> have read where TILT is

> now being considered as a symptom of MCS, makes

> sence to me because

> thats what happened to me.maybe when you get to

> the point where your

> liver can no longer detox, your immune system

> malfunctions. this has to

> have something to do with the continuing of

> build up in the system of

> toxins because the liver is damaged and the

> repeated boughts of getting

> wore down and fevers getting worse and a lot of

> night sweats off and on

> even though I practice advoidence.constant

> sinus problems and I fell

> like my whole world is toxic to me.even trying

> to practice advoidence

> can not be tottally without exposures when you

> have severe MCS,I'm not

> going to stop letting my family come over and

> my daughters are trying

> to finish callage, that means that I am needed

> to babyset quite often,I

> may not be good for much else but I will do

> that and what ever I can.

> its not always easy, sometimes I have to fight

> to stay awake.smells on

> thier cloths can make just hugging them a set

> back for me. I live in

> the corn belt and i'm realizeing the difference

> in even outdoor

> invironments can be so different for all of us

> that advice one gives

> may be bad advice for another. I have also

> realized just how different

> our exposure can be. just like dust is

> different mile for mile and that

> dust enters our homes on top of the dust our

> homes create itself which

> can be full of chemicals. mold eats on this

> dust and off gases whatever

> it eats into the air we breath. needless to

> say, the chemicals that

> have been in your home forever might not ever

> be inhaled until you have

> a mold problem. mold eats it and releases it

> into your air,and it

> attaches to the mold spores you breath. a nail

> will not rust without

> mold, water alone does not make a nail rust,

> just because you dont see

> it doesn't mean its not there.than airborne the

> mold and rust enters

> your lungs. I dont think anyone can be exposed

> to even just one mold

> without inhaling whatever that mold was feeding

> on, thus, makeing the

> possabilitys endless of what else we are

> inhaleing and how it affects

> us. old home,new home, outdoor environments

> mile for mile, it enters

> your home.with MCS tap water and foods can play

> hell with us.I can't

> afford to buy bottled water and i have my

> doughts as to weather its

> much better.chemicals have different effects to

> different parts of the

> body, so do different molds.with MCS it all

> constantly builds up in the

> system. no one hear can have all the answers or

> cures, we just need to

> be open to others exposures and try to look at

> the big picture and be

> supportive of one another. it really bothers me

> when people try to push

> their beliefs on someone else when you cannot

> know what what the other

> has experienced.

> I think most of us are suffering enough because

> of the lack of

> understanding we recieve in our own lives.

> -- In , bbw

> <barb1283@...> wrote:

> >

> > This is an old post about 'withdrawal

> symptoms'

> > after leaving moldy place. Do you think it

> could

> > be caused by the immune system starting to

> come

> > back and fighting the mold and toxins in your

> > body, where before it was suppressed??

> >

> > --- Angel!! <jap2bemc@...> wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > I do no tthink that advocated

> > > " withdrawal " symptoms. I beleive in

> > > my interpreation of her theory is that

> instead

> > > of *craving* something the

> > > barin avoids it.

> > >

> >

>

October 18, 2006

ChemicalInjurySupport · CIS This is a MCS site with a lot of

intellegent people with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, many ill from

mold. They recently changed the name of the group but TILT was one

of the names they considered. They are very knowledgeable about

and all issues of MCS. Check it out. Many teachers,

etc. Below is the site you can join and learn even more.

ChemicalInjurySupport/

>

> In a message dated 10/17/2006 2:06:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> ssr3351@... writes:

>

> Can I ask what is TILT?

>

> TILT. Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance. . As I

> understand it, Dr. studies alcoholics as one of her areas.

She has observed a

> loss of tolerance. She has equated that with other toxics. That

in my

> understanding, BUT I COULD BE WRONG.

>

October 18, 2006

TILT is not a symptom of MCS. MCS is a SYNDROM true name is MCSS multiple

che mical sensitibty syndrome. A syndrome is a term used to describe

something they can't figure out of put anywhre out...aka TOS Thoracic

Outlet Syndrome, they know it's a valid ortho dysfunction but they can't

really pin point it. Symdroms are usually *created* after they do a rule

out of everything else that THEY know/understnad.

TILT is a NEW DISEASY PARADIGM, wheich means it is a new way of the body

reacting to an exposure etc.

did an emtire paper explaining this disease paradigm and it

is comepletely feasible, logial and well thought out. Explins fully why

this is hard to diagnosis andequates it to other accepted disease paradigm

that previously were thought of as unfounded.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, who wrote:

> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:21:32 -0000

> From: who <jeaninem660@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: [] Re: Leaving Moldy Place/Withdrawal Symptoms?

>

> -toxicant induced loss of tolerance, search ' '

> first described as a better description of multiple chemical

> sensativity, now looking like it will be turmed as a symptom of MCS, -

> - In , ssr3351@... wrote:

>>

>> Can I ask what is TILT?

>>

>> Thanks, Sue

>>

>> -no, I thinkit has to do with the brain.can you suffer withdrawel

>> symptoms if you get out before you suffer from TILT and MCS? I cant

> say

>> because I didn't get out before that happened.I have read where

> TILT is

>> now being considered as a symptom of MCS, makes sence to me

> because

>> thats what happened to me.maybe when you get to the point where

> your

>> liver can no longer detox, your immune system malfunctions. this

> has to

>> have something to do with the continuing of build up in the system

> of

>>

October 18, 2006

From the presentation did on ABDICTION/ADDICTION she used alcholism

as the 2 faces of the same coin. Alcoholics CRAVE the -OH while

chemically injured people avoid it.

This was at a seminar in Trinagle Court/Building something in NC, can't

reall, but I know the seminar and I did post it prior to the actual date.

If you search the archives here abstract is there.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 snk1955@... wrote:

> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:43:50 EDT

> From: snk1955@...

> Reply-

>

> Subject: Re: [] Re: Leaving Moldy Place/Withdrawal Symptoms?

>

> In a message dated 10/17/2006 2:06:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> ssr3351@... writes:

>

> Can I ask what is TILT?

>

> TILT. Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance. . As I

> understand it, Dr. studies alcoholics as one of her areas. She has

observed a

> loss of tolerance. She has equated that with other toxics. That in my

> understanding, BUT I COULD BE WRONG.

>

October 18, 2006

If you mean getting worse after you leave, its common for people who

have been exposed to neurotoxicants to continue to get worse.

Do a search on Medline for the poison's name and the words

" longitudinal study " and you will see what I mean...

October 18, 2006

LiveSimply, do you mean 'continue' to get worse, as in not much

changes when you move OR do you mean that your symptoms

are 'heightened'? I can understand simply moving not working for

people who are very sick, particularly with infection but do you mean

there is some 'reaction' to moving away from mold whereby people feel

WORSE ***because of their move***. Someone brought up the

term " withdrawal symptoms " , i.e. that there were specific symptoms

that they did not have before they moved, but that seem to have been

brought on BY THE MOVE. Is that what you mean?

I've been to Medline but I believe you have to set up password, etc,

which I haven't done yet so will take your word for it.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> If you mean getting worse after you leave, its common for people who

> have been exposed to neurotoxicants to continue to get worse.

>

> Do a search on Medline for the poison's name and the words

> " longitudinal study " and you will see what I mean...

>

October 18, 2006

-I understand what your saying, this was a paper from Bell,cant

recall his first name at the moment, he basically said MCS is such a

well known name already that it may just stick, he brought up s

TILT as a new disease theory and stated that it may better or also

describe a symptom that leads to MCS. I'll see if I can locate it. I

dont think he was disagreeing with her at all. I'm thinking I posted

it once.-- In , Angel!! <jap2bemc@...>

wrote:

>

> TILT is not a symptom of MCS. MCS is a SYNDROM true name is MCSS

multiple

> che mical sensitibty syndrome. A syndrome is a term used to

describe

> something they can't figure out of put anywhre out...aka TOS

Thoracic

> Outlet Syndrome, they know it's a valid ortho dysfunction but they

can't

> really pin point it. Symdroms are usually *created* after they do

a rule

> out of everything else that THEY know/understnad.

>

> TILT is a NEW DISEASY PARADIGM, wheich means it is a new way of the

body

> reacting to an exposure etc.

>

> did an emtire paper explaining this disease paradigm

and it

> is comepletely feasible, logial and well thought out. Explins

fully why

> this is hard to diagnosis andequates it to other accepted disease

paradigm

> that previously were thought of as unfounded.

>

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, who wrote:

>

> > Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:21:32 -0000

> > From: who <jeaninem660@...>

> > Reply-

> >

> > Subject: [] Re: Leaving Moldy Place/Withdrawal

Symptoms?

> >

> > -toxicant induced loss of tolerance, search ' '

> > first described as a better description of multiple chemical

> > sensativity, now looking like it will be turmed as a symptom of

MCS, -

> > - In , ssr3351@ wrote:

> >>

> >> Can I ask what is TILT?

> >>

> >> Thanks, Sue

> >>

> >> -no, I thinkit has to do with the brain.can you suffer withdrawel

> >> symptoms if you get out before you suffer from TILT and MCS? I

cant

> > say

> >> because I didn't get out before that happened.I have read where

> > TILT is

> >> now being considered as a symptom of MCS, makes sence to me

> > because

> >> thats what happened to me.maybe when you get to the point where

> > your

> >> liver can no longer detox, your immune system malfunctions. this

> > has to

> >> have something to do with the continuing of build up in the

system

> > of

> >>

October 18, 2006

Maybe the toxic agent is still in the person's body so its continuing

to hurt them.

October 18, 2006

--sorry angel, i dont know if i saved it or not or if it was wrote by

bell,pall or who,read several the last few days. any way I located

s and reread a little on them.

1997 TILT by C.

(http://www.tldp.com/issue/210/toxicantin.htm)

although chemical sensativity may be the consequence of this process,

a term that may more clearly describe the observed process is TILT.

1997 TILT- an emerging theory of disease?

(http://www.herc.org/news/ehp/miller.html)

1998 low-level chemical exposures:a challenge for science and policy

by C

(http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/est/98/nov/low.html)

under STAGES; it has been hypothesized that TILT, a new theory of

disease, leading to chemical sensativity, also proceeds via a two

stage process.an initial exposure to high levels of certain cheimcals

or repeated exposures at lower levels, followed by triggering of

symptoms by everyday chemical exposures at levels that levels that do

not appear to affect most people.

- In , " who " <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> -I understand what your saying, this was a paper from Bell,cant

> recall his first name at the moment, he basically said MCS is such

a

> well known name already that it may just stick, he brought up

s

> TILT as a new disease theory and stated that it may better or also

> describe a symptom that leads to MCS. I'll see if I can locate it.

I

> dont think he was disagreeing with her at all. I'm thinking I

posted

> it once.-- In , Angel!! <jap2bemc@>

> wrote:

> >

> > TILT is not a symptom of MCS. MCS is a SYNDROM true name is MCSS

> multiple

> > che mical sensitibty syndrome. A syndrome is a term used to

> describe

> > something they can't figure out of put anywhre out...aka TOS

> Thoracic

> > Outlet Syndrome, they know it's a valid ortho dysfunction but

they

> can't

> > really pin point it. Symdroms are usually *created* after they

do

> a rule

> > out of everything else that THEY know/understnad.

> >

> > TILT is a NEW DISEASY PARADIGM, wheich means it is a new way of

the

> body

> > reacting to an exposure etc.

> >

> > did an emtire paper explaining this disease

paradigm

> and it

> > is comepletely feasible, logial and well thought out. Explins

> fully why

> > this is hard to diagnosis andequates it to other accepted disease

> paradigm

> > that previously were thought of as unfounded.

> >

> > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, who wrote:

> >

> > > Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:21:32 -0000

> > > From: who <jeaninem660@>

> > > Reply-

> > >

> > > Subject: [] Re: Leaving Moldy Place/Withdrawal

> Symptoms?

> > >

> > > -toxicant induced loss of tolerance, search ' '

> > > first described as a better description of multiple chemical

> > > sensativity, now looking like it will be turmed as a symptom of

> MCS, -

> > > - In , ssr3351@ wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Can I ask what is TILT?

> > >>

> > >> Thanks, Sue

> > >>

> > >> -no, I thinkit has to do with the brain.can you suffer

withdrawel

> > >> symptoms if you get out before you suffer from TILT and MCS? I

> cant

> > > say

> > >> because I didn't get out before that happened.I have read where

> > > TILT is

> > >> now being considered as a symptom of MCS, makes sence to me

> > > because

> > >> thats what happened to me.maybe when you get to the point where

> > > your

> > >> liver can no longer detox, your immune system malfunctions.

this

> > > has to

> > >> have something to do with the continuing of build up in the

> system

> > > of

> > >>

October 18, 2006

Dr has studied many forms of addiction and its inverse,

abdiction. She has studied Gulf War Veterans, people with MCS and

many others starting with a study for the New Jersey Dept of Health

that led to the 1989 book Chemical Exposure: Low Level and High

Statkes.

Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance (TILT) is an accurately

descriptive name for when a person loses tolerance to exposure to any

of many things, not just chemicals. The disease theory hypothesizes

that the loss of tolerance is induced by exposure to a toxicant. Once

induced the reactivity is not limited to just the trigger but a

multitude of other exposures that are seemingly unrelated (according

to traditional theories of disease). Kind of like " the straw that

broke the camel's back. " Once broken, the camel can no longer carry

the whole load regardless of what that load is. It must first heal.

But about 24% exposed to biological toxins don't heal. That, in part,

is where Dr Shoemaker comes in.

Google along with TILT or QEESI and read for yourself.

Also, check the Archives of this group.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> In a message dated 10/17/2006 2:06:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> ssr3351@... writes:

>

> Can I ask what is TILT?

>

> TILT. Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance. . As I

> understand it, Dr. studies alcoholics as one of her areas.

> She has observed a loss of tolerance. She has equated that with

> other toxics. That in my understanding, BUT I COULD BE WRONG.

October 18, 2006

I think the gest of this thread was someone who

felt 'worse' after leaving moldy home. I was

interested because I developed a rash within days

of moving (which could be due to ANYTHING of

course), but it isn't about 'continuing to feel

bad', but about paradoxically feeling worse.

--- LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> Maybe the toxic agent is still in the person's

> body so its continuing

> to hurt them.

>

October 18, 2006

Do you mean that they were becoming addicted to ergot alkaloids from

aspergillius or something like that?

Aspergillius fungi produce some chemicals that are closely related to LSD...

See this paper:

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/71/6/3106

_____cut here________

Abundant Respirable Ergot Alkaloids from the Common Airborne Fungus

Aspergillus fumigatus

G. Panaccione* and M. Coyle

Division of Plant & Soil Sciences, Genetics & Developmental Biology

Program, West Virginia University, town, West Virginia

26506-6058

Received 17 September 2004/ Accepted 20 December 2004

ABSTRACT

" Ergot alkaloids are mycotoxins that interact with several monoamine

receptors, negatively affecting cardiovascular, nervous, reproductive,

and immune systems of exposed humans and animals. Aspergillus

fumigatus, a common airborne fungus and opportunistic human pathogen,

can produce ergot alkaloids in broth culture. The objectives of this

study were to determine if A. fumigatus accumulates ergot alkaloids in

a respirable form in or on its conidia, to quantify ergot alkaloids

associated with conidia produced on several different substrates, and

to measure relevant physical properties of the conidia. We found at

least four ergot alkaloids, fumigaclavine C, festuclavine,

fumigaclavine A, and fumigaclavine B (in order of abundance),

associated with conidia of A. fumigatus. Under environmentally

relevant conditions, the total mass of ergot alkaloids often

constituted >1% of the mass of the conidium. Ergot alkaloids were

extracted from conidia produced on all media tested, and the greatest

quantities were observed when the fungus was cultured on latex paint

or cultured maize seedlings. The values for physical properties of

conidia likely to affect their respirability (i.e., diameter, mass,

and specific gravity) were significantly lower for A. fumigatus than

for Aspergillus nidulans, Aspergillus niger, and Stachybotrys

chartarum. The demonstration of relatively high concentrations of

ergot alkaloids associated with conidia of A. fumigatus presents

opportunities for investigations of potential contributions of the

toxins to adverse health effects associated with the fungus and to

aspects of the biology of the fungus that contribute to its success. "

( remainder of the paper at the URL

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/6/3106 )

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