Re: ProLabs Rebuttal to Consumer Reports /Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi

I got a contaminated sample too but you can see if as mold is

already growing. I have a kit and going to open it. I didn't think

there was anything in plate before you poured liquid in it. I think

air getting to liquid is what makes it gel but I could be wrong so

will check. Since it takes more than 2-3 days for you to get mold

kit from ProLab, more like weeks or longer, if it is contaminated,

mold will already be there. Small amount of mold was in little

bottle of liquid. I called them about it, they said throw it away

and they mailed me a replacement right away.

The other thing that could be contaminated is plate itself. However

I have made them up ahead of time on occasion and nothing grew but

some could be contaminated. It wouldn't surprise me. I just

wouldn't make any big decisions on one culture test anyway. Before

being in this group, I called a professional testor to retest

questionable areas that I tested with plates. However if they had

all came out negative, I may not have called professional testor.

In fact, I'm sure I would not have. So false negative would be

worse. It is doubtful that would have happened in my case since I

ran test in every room. Since air mixes well in house, all rooms

would have had to have a false negative. This could only happen if

mold in house was of type that plate does not test well, which is

something Carl brought up that I didn't know (except for stachy).

However I doubt that any house that was 'moldy', would only have one

kind of mold and that would be kind the ProLab culture dishes didn't

test. If house or room appears to be moldy, I THINK there will be

all kinds of mold there, not just one type and if it is moldy, it

needs professional testing to determine what it is and correct way

to handle. I still think that many people would not call a

professional testor because of cost, but may if results of an

inexpensive test said there house was moldy. Perhaps false

positives make nuisance calls to professionals. I don't know but I

think better to be tested and be sure than to get sick.

>

> I understand what he is saying and it is all true, although the

only basis I have to question is my two test that I did matched up

with the professional test a year apart. But I had thought of prior

contamination and poured the liquid in in a clean house very fast

and put it back in the

[Guest guest]

If the plate is activated but not exposed to the air it should have

no growth. If it does then the liquid was already contaminated or the

always present mold in the air got into the liquid or onto the plate

as it was poured in.

If the plate has been exposed to the air it should have at least 1 or

2 colonies because of the always present mold in the air. If it

doesn't then you don't know..... You didn't leave it exposed long

enough or the plate won't grow mold, the plate won't grow that

specific mold, the mold is too small to settle out of the air and

onto the plate... or something else.

Let us know what you discover with your experiments.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Hi Barb,

> Seems I remember reading on the instruction sheet about the other

> substance being in the dish already but was not easily seen. I know

> after you empty the bottle I thought I would get a free test by

> leaving the bottle open and sitting in a suspected contaminated

> area. The liquid never turned to gel. This was another indicator to

> me there was something in the dish it had to mix with. What is

> suspicious to me is that the kit I told you I found at wally world

> and even the one you got sent to you from ProLab themselves already

> had mold growth. This should not be possible if in fact the sealed

> bags they come in are in fact sterile. Now that I am thinking about

> it I am becoming very suspicious of these kits period. If there is

> growth in even some of the sealed bags than how do we know this

> " sterile " swab we are to use to put sample in the dish with is

> sterile at all. Have you ever " not " seen growth of some kind in a

> dish you have tested? Anybody else? I trust Mr Grimes opinion

> without any doubt in my mind and I think I am taking his information

> and going one step further. I just can't see that these kits are

> helpful at all. I am even thinking it may cause more fear than help.

> I am only thinking that at the moment but when I have a few extra $,

> I am going to get a few kits and do a couple of experiments and see

> what conclusion I come up with. I will try my best to come up with a

> negative plate and I will post the pictures of the experiments I do.

> I will let you know when I can do this. Chris...

[Guest guest]

Mr. Grimes,

I defiantly will. As I said my concern is how we are getting kits unopened

that have mold growth in them when the " sterile " bag they ship the kits in has

been un opened. This is my concern. If this be the case, then the plates and/or

liquid is already contaminated before we ever open any of the products up. Does

that make sense?

Chris...

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

If the plate is activated but not exposed to the air it should have

no growth. If it does then the liquid was already contaminated or the

always present mold in the air got into the liquid or onto the plate

as it was poured in.

If the plate has been exposed to the air it should have at least 1 or

2 colonies because of the always present mold in the air. If it

doesn't then you don't know..... You didn't leave it exposed long

enough or the plate won't grow mold, the plate won't grow that

specific mold, the mold is too small to settle out of the air and

onto the plate... or something else.

Let us know what you discover with your experiments.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Hi Barb,

> Seems I remember reading on the instruction sheet about the other

> substance being in the dish already but was not easily seen. I know

> after you empty the bottle I thought I would get a free test by

> leaving the bottle open and sitting in a suspected contaminated

> area. The liquid never turned to gel. This was another indicator to

> me there was something in the dish it had to mix with. What is

> suspicious to me is that the kit I told you I found at wally world

> and even the one you got sent to you from ProLab themselves already

> had mold growth. This should not be possible if in fact the sealed

> bags they come in are in fact sterile. Now that I am thinking about

> it I am becoming very suspicious of these kits period. If there is

> growth in even some of the sealed bags than how do we know this

> " sterile " swab we are to use to put sample in the dish with is

> sterile at all. Have you ever " not " seen growth of some kind in a

> dish you have tested? Anybody else? I trust Mr Grimes opinion

> without any doubt in my mind and I think I am taking his information

> and going one step further. I just can't see that these kits are

> helpful at all. I am even thinking it may cause more fear than help.

> I am only thinking that at the moment but when I have a few extra $,

> I am going to get a few kits and do a couple of experiments and see

> what conclusion I come up with. I will try my best to come up with a

> negative plate and I will post the pictures of the experiments I do.

> I will let you know when I can do this. Chris...

Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

---------------------------------

Get your email and more, right on the new .com

[Guest guest]

Yes it does. But also consider mold in the liquid that doesn't grow

until after you open the kits.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Mr. Grimes,

> I defiantly will. As I said my concern is how we are getting kits

> unopened that have mold growth in them when the " sterile " bag they

> ship the kits in has been un opened. This is my concern. If this be

> the case, then the plates and/or liquid is already contaminated

> before we ever open any of the products up. Does that make sense?

> Chris...

>

> " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

>

> If the plate is activated but not exposed to the air it should have no

> growth. If it does then the liquid was already contaminated or the

> always present mold in the air got into the liquid or onto the plate

> as it was poured in.

>

> If the plate has been exposed to the air it should have at least 1 or

> 2 colonies because of the always present mold in the air. If it

> doesn't then you don't know..... You didn't leave it exposed long

> enough or the plate won't grow mold, the plate won't grow that

> specific mold, the mold is too small to settle out of the air and onto

> the plate... or something else.

>

> Let us know what you discover with your experiments.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Hi Barb,

> > Seems I remember reading on the instruction sheet about the other

> > substance being in the dish already but was not easily seen. I know

> > after you empty the bottle I thought I would get a free test by

> > leaving the bottle open and sitting in a suspected contaminated

> > area. The liquid never turned to gel. This was another indicator to

> > me there was something in the dish it had to mix with. What is

> > suspicious to me is that the kit I told you I found at wally world

> > and even the one you got sent to you from ProLab themselves already

> > had mold growth. This should not be possible if in fact the sealed

> > bags they come in are in fact sterile. Now that I am thinking about

> > it I am becoming very suspicious of these kits period. If there is

> > growth in even some of the sealed bags than how do we know this

> > " sterile " swab we are to use to put sample in the dish with is

> > sterile at all. Have you ever " not " seen growth of some kind in a

> > dish you have tested? Anybody else? I trust Mr Grimes opinion

> > without any doubt in my mind and I think I am taking his information

> > and going one step further. I just can't see that these kits are

> > helpful at all. I am even thinking it may cause more fear than help.

> > I am only thinking that at the moment but when I have a few extra $,

> > I am going to get a few kits and do a couple of experiments and see

> > what conclusion I come up with. I will try my best to come up with a

> > negative plate and I will post the pictures of the experiments I do.

> > I will let you know when I can do this. Chris...

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

>

> ---------------------------------

> Get your email and more, right on the new .com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mr. Grimes,

I was not aware that there was mold in the liquid before opening the bottle.

Is is suppose to be that way? If so how are we to believe anyone could get any

kind of a result about what we would be testing that was not already tainted?

That would mean there is no such thing as a negative test result would it not?

This is very interesting. as I continue to learn about this I am finding myself

with a new interest and hobby.

Chris...

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Yes it does. But also consider mold in the liquid that doesn't grow

until after you open the kits.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Mr. Grimes,

> I defiantly will. As I said my concern is how we are getting kits

> unopened that have mold growth in them when the " sterile " bag they

> ship the kits in has been un opened. This is my concern. If this be

> the case, then the plates and/or liquid is already contaminated

> before we ever open any of the products up. Does that make sense?

> Chris...

>

> " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

>

> If the plate is activated but not exposed to the air it should have no

> growth. If it does then the liquid was already contaminated or the

> always present mold in the air got into the liquid or onto the plate

> as it was poured in.

>

> If the plate has been exposed to the air it should have at least 1 or

> 2 colonies because of the always present mold in the air. If it

> doesn't then you don't know..... You didn't leave it exposed long

> enough or the plate won't grow mold, the plate won't grow that

> specific mold, the mold is too small to settle out of the air and onto

> the plate... or something else.

>

> Let us know what you discover with your experiments.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Hi Barb,

> > Seems I remember reading on the instruction sheet about the other

> > substance being in the dish already but was not easily seen. I know

> > after you empty the bottle I thought I would get a free test by

> > leaving the bottle open and sitting in a suspected contaminated

> > area. The liquid never turned to gel. This was another indicator to

> > me there was something in the dish it had to mix with. What is

> > suspicious to me is that the kit I told you I found at wally world

> > and even the one you got sent to you from ProLab themselves already

> > had mold growth. This should not be possible if in fact the sealed

> > bags they come in are in fact sterile. Now that I am thinking about

> > it I am becoming very suspicious of these kits period. If there is

> > growth in even some of the sealed bags than how do we know this

> > " sterile " swab we are to use to put sample in the dish with is

> > sterile at all. Have you ever " not " seen growth of some kind in a

> > dish you have tested? Anybody else? I trust Mr Grimes opinion

> > without any doubt in my mind and I think I am taking his information

> > and going one step further. I just can't see that these kits are

> > helpful at all. I am even thinking it may cause more fear than help.

> > I am only thinking that at the moment but when I have a few extra $,

> > I am going to get a few kits and do a couple of experiments and see

> > what conclusion I come up with. I will try my best to come up with a

> > negative plate and I will post the pictures of the experiments I do.

> > I will let you know when I can do this. Chris...

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

>

> ---------------------------------

> Get your email and more, right on the new .com

>

>

[Guest guest]

It can happen on occasion. I haven't found it to

happen very often and I have used about a dozen

of these plates myself or more. How would it

happen, mold slipped in while putting the kit

together, just like it could slip out while

pulling kit out of packaging. Just open it up in

room you are going to do testing and that should

solve that. As for mold coming in it, I think

this is VERY rare. Recently I've made up kits

ahead of time so I have them to go apartment

shopping and I've held on to them for days or a

week, and nothing grew in them. If results are

important, just run test again or run test with

one run at same time UNEXPOSED bought at same

time. I really don't think it is a big deal

since for 10.00 you can rerun test. If it's

important, it should be worth another ten bucks.

--- Tazin Round <unitedstatesvet@...>

wrote:

> Mr. Grimes,

> I defiantly will. As I said my concern is how

> we are getting kits unopened that have mold

> growth in them when the " sterile " bag they ship

> the kits in has been un opened. This is my

>

[Guest guest]

It could be any of those possible errors and it doesn't have to be

the same error each time. Each instance could be different. This is

why verifiable Quality Control and consistency is so important. It is

all based on trust.

If the plates were being prepared at the manufacturer under

verifiable conditions and then sealed for shipment, very few of the

plates would have growth before exposure. If they did, and

occasionally this happens, it is obvious and you know when it

happened. (You can perform your own version of this quality check by

pouring the plate and then waiting 4-5 days before exposing it).

But all this costs more.

Which leads to one of the reasons professionals often send a blank,

unexposed plate from the same lot to the lab along with the exposed

plates. The labs don't just set the plates on a table or shelf

waiting for mold to grow. They use standardized and documented

temperature and humidity to increase their Quality Control. Different

species of the same genera, Aspergillus, for example, thrive at

different temperatures and humidity. One that doesn't grow on the

shelf may grow in the lab.

But all this costs more.

If you use a low cost home test kit for mold, radon or lead paint,

etc - and I sometimes advise my clients to do just that - be aware of

the limitations and possible errors. With low cost (and less control

of the variables by the lab) I suggest you take double samples to see

if the results are similar. (Which doubles the cost of your low cost

samples). If you get results that are of concern, hire a professional

with verifiable credentials and references to perform the

comprehensive inspection that ProLab specifies in their rebuttal

letter.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Mr. Grimes,

> I was not aware that there was mold in the liquid before opening the

> bottle. Is is suppose to be that way? If so how are we to believe

> anyone could get any kind of a result about what we would be testing

> that was not already tainted? That would mean there is no such thing

> as a negative test result would it not? This is very interesting. as

> I continue to learn about this I am finding myself with a new

> interest and hobby. Chris...

>

> " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

>

> Yes it does. But also consider mold in the liquid that doesn't grow

> until after you open the kits.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Mr. Grimes,

> > I defiantly will. As I said my concern is how we are getting kits

> > unopened that have mold growth in them when the " sterile " bag they

> > ship the kits in has been un opened. This is my concern. If this be

> > the case, then the plates and/or liquid is already contaminated

> > before we ever open any of the products up. Does that make sense?

> > Chris...

> >

> > " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > If the plate is activated but not exposed to the air it should have

> > no growth. If it does then the liquid was already contaminated or

> > the always present mold in the air got into the liquid or onto the

> > plate as it was poured in.

> >

> > If the plate has been exposed to the air it should have at least 1

> > or 2 colonies because of the always present mold in the air. If it

> > doesn't then you don't know..... You didn't leave it exposed long

> > enough or the plate won't grow mold, the plate won't grow that

> > specific mold, the mold is too small to settle out of the air and

> > onto the plate... or something else.

> >

> > Let us know what you discover with your experiments.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

> > -----

> > > Hi Barb,

> > > Seems I remember reading on the instruction sheet about the other

> > > substance being in the dish already but was not easily seen. I

> > > know after you empty the bottle I thought I would get a free test

> > > by leaving the bottle open and sitting in a suspected contaminated

> > > area. The liquid never turned to gel. This was another indicator

> > > to me there was something in the dish it had to mix with. What is

> > > suspicious to me is that the kit I told you I found at wally world

> > > and even the one you got sent to you from ProLab themselves

> > > already had mold growth. This should not be possible if in fact

> > > the sealed bags they come in are in fact sterile. Now that I am

> > > thinking about it I am becoming very suspicious of these kits

> > > period. If there is growth in even some of the sealed bags than

> > > how do we know this " sterile " swab we are to use to put sample in

> > > the dish with is sterile at all. Have you ever " not " seen growth

> > > of some kind in a dish you have tested? Anybody else? I trust Mr

> > > Grimes opinion without any doubt in my mind and I think I am

> > > taking his information and going one step further. I just can't

> > > see that these kits are helpful at all. I am even thinking it may

> > > cause more fear than help. I am only thinking that at the moment

> > > but when I have a few extra $, I am going to get a few kits and do

> > > a couple of experiments and see what conclusion I come up with. I

> > > will try my best to come up with a negative plate and I will post

> > > the pictures of the experiments I do. I will let you know when I

> > > can do this. Chris...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Get your email and more, right on the new .com

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think plates from Dallas Environmental Center

would be very trustworthy if you are having

second thoughts about Pro Lab. 4 for 100.00

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

>

> It could be any of those possible errors and it

> doesn't have to be

> the same error each time. Each instance could

> be different. This is

> why verifiable Quality Control and consistency

> is so important. It is

> all based on trust.

>

> If the plates were being prepared at the

> manufacturer under

> verifiable conditions and then sealed for

> shipment, very few of the

> plates would have growth before exposure. If

> they did, and

> occasionally this happens, it is obvious and

> you know when it

> happened. (You can perform your own version of

> this quality check by

> pouring the plate and then waiting 4-5 days

> before exposing it).

>

> But all this costs more.

>

> Which leads to one of the reasons professionals

> often send a blank,

> unexposed plate from the same lot to the lab

> along with the exposed

> plates. The labs don't just set the plates on a

> table or shelf

> waiting for mold to grow. They use standardized

> and documented

> temperature and humidity to increase their

> Quality Control. Different

> species of the same genera, Aspergillus, for

> example, thrive at

> different temperatures and humidity. One that

> doesn't grow on the

> shelf may grow in the lab.

>

> But all this costs more.

>

> If you use a low cost home test kit for mold,

> radon or lead paint,

> etc - and I sometimes advise my clients to do

> just that - be aware of

> the limitations and possible errors. With low

> cost (and less control

> of the variables by the lab) I suggest you take

> double samples to see

> if the results are similar. (Which doubles the

> cost of your low cost

> samples). If you get results that are of

> concern, hire a professional

> with verifiable credentials and references to

> perform the

> comprehensive inspection that ProLab specifies

> in their rebuttal

> letter.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Mr. Grimes,

> > I was not aware that there was mold in the

> liquid before opening the

> > bottle. Is is suppose to be that way? If so

> how are we to believe

> > anyone could get any kind of a result about

> what we would be testing

> > that was not already tainted? That would

> mean there is no such thing

> > as a negative test result would it not?

> This is very interesting. as

> > I continue to learn about this I am finding

> myself with a new

> > interest and hobby. Chris...

> >

> > " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Yes it does. But also consider mold in the

> liquid that doesn't grow

> > until after you open the kits.

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

> > -----

> > > Mr. Grimes,

> > > I defiantly will. As I said my concern is

> how we are getting kits

> > > unopened that have mold growth in them when

> the " sterile " bag they

> > > ship the kits in has been un opened. This

> is my concern. If this be

> > > the case, then the plates and/or liquid is

> already contaminated

> > > before we ever open any of the products up.

> Does that make sense?

> > > Chris...

> > >

> > > " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > If the plate is activated but not exposed

> to the air it should have

> > > no growth. If it does then the liquid was

> already contaminated or

> > > the always present mold in the air got into

> the liquid or onto the

> > > plate as it was poured in.

> > >

> > > If the plate has been exposed to the air it

> should have at least 1

> > > or 2 colonies because of the always present

> mold in the air. If it

> > > doesn't then you don't know..... You didn't

> leave it exposed long

> > > enough or the plate won't grow mold, the

> plate won't grow that

> > > specific mold, the mold is too small to

> settle out of the air and

> > > onto the plate... or something else.

> > >

> > > Let us know what you discover with your

> experiments.

> > >

> > > Carl Grimes

> > > Healthy Habitats LLC

> > >

> > > -----

> > > > Hi Barb,

> > > > Seems I remember reading on the

> instruction sheet about the other

> > > > substance being in the dish already but

> was not easily seen. I

> > > > know after you empty the bottle I thought

> I would get a free test

> > > > by leaving the bottle open and sitting in

> a suspected contaminated

> > > > area. The liquid never turned to gel.

> This was another indicator

> > > > to me there was something in the dish it

> had to mix with. What is

> > > > suspicious to me is that the kit I told

> you I found at wally world

> > > > and even the one you got sent to you from

> ProLab themselves

> > > > already had mold growth. This should not

> be possible if in fact

> > > > the sealed bags they come in are in fact

> sterile. Now that I am

> > > > thinking about it I am becoming very

> suspicious of these kits

> > > > period. If there is growth in even some

> of the sealed bags than

> > > > how do we know this " sterile " swab we are

> to use to put sample in

> > > > the dish with is sterile at all. Have you

> ever " not " seen growth

> > > > of some kind in a dish you have tested?

> Anybody else? I trust Mr

> > > > Grimes opinion without any doubt in my

> mind and I think I am

> > > > taking his information and going one step

> further. I just can't

> > > > see that these kits are helpful at all. I

> am even thinking it may

> > > > cause more fear than help. I am only

> thinking that at the moment

> > > > but when I have a few extra $, I am going

> to get a few kits and do

> > > > a couple of experiments and see what

> conclusion I come up with. I

> > > > will try my best to come up with a

> negative plate and I will post

> > > > the pictures of the experiments I do. I

> will let you know when I

> > > > can do this. Chris...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Life is a balance of holding on and letting

> go...

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Get your email and more, right on the new

> .com

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

>

=== message truncated ===