Bench press performance question...

[Guest guest]

Mike:

I experienced acute increases in strength after performing 8 sets of 3 reps

with bands in the bench press. Later, Dave Tate gave me an idea on how to

apply this to log presses. I use the reverse band set up for the log press

instead of the bench press. Basically this is a military press with a log,

with the bands hooked at the top of the power rack so that they pull the

weight up. My weights have skyrocketed beyond my previous plateaus, which

was really surprising to me since I have been training with weights for over

20 years. I use the following strategy of 3 progressively increasing warm-up

sets, 5-8 sets at top weight for 3 reps, 2-3 sets of regular log presses. As

soon as I am done with my dissertation, I plan on doing a few studies with

the bands. At this point I only have some casual observations based on

training with myself and two other guys. It seems on some days, 3-5 sets is

sufficient to stimulate the nervous system, while on other days 6-8 sets is

needed to get the same stimulation. The first set without bands you have to

be careful with, since you might hyperextend an elbow or shoulder. It's a

lot of fun training with bands (and chains and other toys).

Tom

Incledon, MS, RD, LD/LN, NSCA-CPT, CSCS

Human Performance Specialists, Inc.

619 NW 90th Terrace

Plantation, FL 33324

Next seminar : June 8 - Phoenix

Details at: http://www.thomasincledon.com

* Please sign all letters with your full name and address if you wish your

letters to be published *

[Guest guest]

Tom, did this dramatic increase in strength happen to your raw bench as well

as your shirted bench?

Shanahan,

Melbourne,

Australia.

---------------

>Mike -- I experienced acute increases in strength after performing 8 sets of 3

reps

>with bands in the bench press. Later, Dave Tate gave me an idea on how to

>apply this to log presses. I use the reverse band set up for the log press

>instead of the bench press. Basically this is a military press with a log,

>with the bands hooked at the top of the power rack so that they pull the

>weight up. My weights have skyrocketed beyond my previous plateaus, which

>was really surprising to me since I have been training with weights for over

>20 years. I use the following strategy of 3 progressively increasing warm-up

>sets, 5-8 sets at top weight for 3 reps, 2-3 sets of regular log presses.

>As soon as I am done with my dissertation, I plan on doing a few studies with

>the bands. At this point I only have some casual observations based on

>training with myself and two other guys. It seems on some days, 3-5 sets is

>sufficient to stimulate the nervous system, while on other days 6-8 sets is

>needed to get the same stimulation. The first set without bands you have to

>be careful with, since you might hyperextend an elbow or shoulder. It's a

>lot of fun training with bands (and chains and other toys).

*Please sign all letters with your full name and city of residence if you

wish your letters to be published *

[Guest guest]

Mike,

When you say you are performing 5-8 sets at top weight for 3 reps, are you

referring to dynamic work or max effort work, as defined by Westside?

Thanks,

Mark Caruthers

150 ston Road

n, VA 24354

RE: Bench press performance question...

Mike:

I experienced acute increases in strength after performing 8 sets of 3 reps

with bands in the bench press. Later, Dave Tate gave me an idea on how to

apply this to log presses. I use the reverse band set up for the log press

instead of the bench press. Basically this is a military press with a log,

with the bands hooked at the top of the power rack so that they pull the

weight up. My weights have skyrocketed beyond my previous plateaus, which

was really surprising to me since I have been training with weights for over

20 years. I use the following strategy of 3 progressively increasing warm-up

sets, 5-8 sets at top weight for 3 reps, 2-3 sets of regular log presses. As

soon as I am done with my dissertation, I plan on doing a few studies with

the bands. At this point I only have some casual observations based on

training with myself and two other guys. It seems on some days, 3-5 sets is

sufficient to stimulate the nervous system, while on other days 6-8 sets is

needed to get the same stimulation. The first set without bands you have to

be careful with, since you might hyperextend an elbow or shoulder. It's a

lot of fun training with bands (and chains and other toys).

Tom

Incledon, MS, RD, LD/LN, NSCA-CPT, CSCS

Human Performance Specialists, Inc.

619 NW 90th Terrace

Plantation, FL 33324

Next seminar : June 8 - Phoenix

Details at: http://www.thomasincledon.com

* Please sign all letters with your full name and address if you wish your

letters to be published *

Modify or cancel your subscription here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups

Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

:

I went from 385 (with a bench shirt) to 425 without a bench shirt, in

roughly 6 weeks. After witnessing the bench press contest disgrace at this

year's Arnold Classic I refuse to wear a bench shirt anymore, so I can't say

what my bench would be like with a shirt. My focus recently has been on

strongman and weightlifting competitions, so I don't see it as a big

sacrifice.

Tom

Incledon, MS, RD, LD/LN, NSCA-CPT, CSCS

Human Performance Specialists, Inc.

619 NW 90th Terrace

Plantation, FL 33324

Next seminar on: June 8 - Phoenix

Find out details at: http://www.thomasincledon.com

[Guest guest]

:

I went from 385 (with a bench shirt) to 425 without a bench shirt, in

roughly 6 weeks. After witnessing the bench press contest disgrace at this

year's Arnold Classic I refuse to wear a bench shirt anymore, so I can't say

what my bench would be like with a shirt. My focus recently has been on

strongman and weightlifting competitions, so I don't see it as a big

sacrifice.

Tom

Incledon, MS, RD, LD/LN, NSCA-CPT, CSCS

Human Performance Specialists, Inc.

619 NW 90th Terrace

Plantation, FL 33324

Next seminar on: June 8 - Phoenix

Find out details at: http://www.thomasincledon.com

[Guest guest]

Mark:

I think this was addressed to me, not Mike.

If so, I was using the dynamic method for the 5-8 sets of 3 reps. I

basically use as heavy a weight (with bands) as I can handle and still

complete 3 reps in 3 seconds.

Tom

Incledon, MS, RD, LD/LN, NSCA-CPT, CSCS

Human Performance Specialists, Inc.

619 NW 90th Terrace

Plantation, FL 33324

Next seminar on: June 8 - Phoenix

Find out details at: http://www.thomasincledon.com

[Guest guest]

Mike:

It's nothing like negatives at all. The weight comes down very quickly and

" lightens " as it approaches your chest since the bands are pulling up on the

bar. The focus is on quick reversal of movement direction of the load/bar

ate the bottom. We have it set up so that the bands help just enough to get

past the sticking point and then as you get to lockout the bands have slack

in them. This allows one to get the feel of handling much heavier weights

than normal.

In the case of using them with logs, the log we use starts at 170 pounds. If

I want to set the weight so that it is about 110-120 pounds, the reverse

band set up allows me to effectively reduce the load at the bottom position.

In yesterdays workouts I had the bands set up so that I had about 220-230

pounds on my clavicle and 300-310 overhead. The light beginning allows one

to explode up with the weight. This has a very different feel then pressing

up with bands pulling down. In the latter case, you never get to balance a

mass of 300+ pounds, you only get to work against 300+ pound of tension.

Both methods of using the bands have value.

Have you noticed how long you can use the bands (ie 3 weeks, 6 weeks, 12

weeks) before you see a lack of progress?

Tom

Incledon, MS, RD, LD/LN, NSCA-CPT, CSCS

Human Performance Specialists, Inc.

619 NW 90th Terrace

Plantation, FL 33324

Next seminar on: June 8 - Phoenix

Find out details at: http://www.thomasincledon.com

[Guest guest]

I have used the bands for a while now, without doing the WSB thing.

As you noted the " bands under " are very good for light and very explosive lifts.

They work the upper third part of the lift.

Reverse bands helps at the lower third of the lift (like the shirt) and I prefer

this setup for my heavy lifts.

For the regular in-between stuff I prefer chains.

I found that instead of lockouts I would do reverse bands with the blue bands

double over.

This way I get 250lbs lift at the bottom and all the lifting is done at the top

while still doing the entire path.

Bands and chains are perfect for benching and works just fine outside of the WSB

system.

/Niels Stærkjær

Denmark

Bench press performance question...

> Mike Ambrose wrote:

>

> Tom -- Reverse band set up in the bench and its purpose does not compute in my

> cerebral matter :-) What is the purpose of it? To me is would seem

> that since the bands are pulling the weight upwards, the only benefit

> would come from doing what " becomes " nothing more than heavy negatives.

> It is easy enough to perform negatives with a workout partner. What am

> I missing here?

>

> Casler writes:

>

> I have often wondered just the opposite. Why powerlifters do not use

> the bands " above " the bar?? I do.

>

> Unless I have not been listening, the bands (in general) are to

> reproduce the " force profile " or effects of a squat suit or bench shirt.

> Since the gear provides little help in the upper portion of the lift and

> the most help at the bottom, it would seem that using the bands from the

> top reproduces this profile more accurately.

>

> I find this method MUCH easier to use and it allows one to get the feel

> and confidence of handling the real weight during a great portion of the

> movement. It also allows you to more accurately ascertain what force is

> being subtracted at the bottom of the motion, without fancy formulas and

> guesswork. Just load the bar and suspend it to the bottom of the

> movement. That is approximately how much is being subtracted (not

> figuring in momentum here).

>

> The only reason I can find for " bands from the bottom " is Momentum

> Control. That is you can perform accelerative reps with lighter weight

> and not worry about launching.

>

> I'll ask the same question as Mike, " What am I missing here? "

>

> [This sort of question is one which Louie and I will be addressing

> in detail at our forthcoming joint Strength Camp this July in Las Vegas.

> We will be explaining changes in force profile by means of bands, chains,

> accentuated cceleration and deceleration, among many other topics that

> will help to explain the use of such training aids. Mel Siff]

>

> A. Casler

> Century City, CA

> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

>

>

> * Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

> wish them to be published!

>

>

>

>

> Modify or cancel your subscription here:

>

> mygroups

>

> Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

> wish them to be published!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

/Niels Stærkjær wrote:

I have used the bands for a while now, without doing the WSB thing.

As you noted the " bands under " are very good for light and very

explosive lifts.

They work the upper third part of the lift.

Reverse bands helps at the lower third of the lift (like the shirt) and

I prefer this setup for my heavy lifts.

For the regular in-between stuff I prefer chains.

I found that instead of lockouts I would do reverse bands with the blue

bands double over.

This way I get 250lbs lift at the bottom and all the lifting is done at

the top while still doing the entire path.

Bands and chains are perfect for benching and works just fine outside of

the WSB system.

Casler replies:

I thought others must be using them this way.

I have also developed a whole system for many different exercises with

the combination weight force and elastic/spring type force, that, I must

say, promises to be very effective.

I predict a substantial increase in the use of multiple forces of

differing types in the future. I know that over the years, there have

been some who have used these applications, and I'm sure even some of

the system that I have been working on.

The use of the various force profiles, as well as being able to create

forces in 3-D space by using forces from different angles is very

exciting. (thus the TRI-VECTOR in my signature) I even have patent

applications in on much of this.

Thanks for your reply.

Regards,

A. Casler

TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

Century City, CA

[Guest guest]

> Hobman writes:

> Mike - the weight is increasing as you get nearer to the top of the

> movement. Actually would be a good idea for me as right now lockout is

my

> weakness.

Off the chest and mid point are my sticking points...

> Casler writes:

> Unless I have not been listening, the bands (in general) are to

reproduce the " force profile "

> or effects of a squat suit or bench shirt. Since the gear provides

little help in the upper

> portion of the lift and the most help at the bottom, it would seem

that using the bands from

> the top reproduces this profile more accurately.

Being that I am a raw lifter, and adding in normal sticking point I can

see why this bit of wisdom may have slipped past. I have a tendency to

focus in on what relates to my training. Eventually, like now, I manage

to dig for all the information, but once I have it in my head that

something is of no benefit for my training, I put it in the " to-do "

pile.

> Mel Siff writes:

> [This sort of question is one which Louie and I will be

addressing in detail at our

> forthcoming joint Strength Camp this July in Las Vegas. We will be

explaining changes in force

> profile by means of bands, chains, accentuated cceleration and

deceleration, among many other

> topics that will help to explain the use of such training aids. Mel

Siff]

Mel, is there any chance of your video taping the seminar and seling the

tapes (As well as the ones you do at home)? I for one would be

interested in purchasing them.

> Incledon writes:

>

> The focus is on quick reversal of movement direction of the load/bar

ate the bottom. We have it

> set up so that the bands help just enough to get past the sticking

point and then as you get to

> lockout the bands have slack in them. This allows one to get the feel

of handling much heavier

> weights than normal.

How would focusing on the reversal of direction help with ones

competitive bench press? I am assuming that you mean reversing

direction without stopping/pausing which all (I believe) powerlifting

federations require? I can see where it would be useful in other

athletic endevors but not here.

> Incledon writes:

>

> Have you noticed how long you can use the bands (ie 3 weeks,

> 6 weeks, 12

> weeks) before you see a lack of progress?

I have not noticed this with regards to bench pressing yet. I have only

used the mini bands for speed work on the bench. I may have used the

green bands once or twice for a max effort bench movement.

Speed squats on the other hand are a different story. This is rather

timely as I have just started to get a good handle on this and its

effect on me. When I use bands for box squats, they are the green ones.

I can go for about 3/4 weeks of band usage and then I get " fried " . I

then either do a three week cycle of box squats without the bands at all

or what I recently did, no box squats for a week, followed by a week of

box squats without the bands. I did my first workout with the bands

agian yesterday. No feeling of unstability with the workout, bit slow

at first, but my first set or two usually is.

FYI, I just started using bands for speed squats this January.

Mike Ambrose

Millis, MA