Re: terpenes, furocoumarins and other fun stuff

[Guest guest]

Angie,

I do love trying new things with herbs too and have been trying my

hand at distilling. I have alot of I have used. Tell me,

what do you use the melissa hydrosol for?

Actually, I tend to like the term distillate better. Chemists have

used the term hydrosol for a long time to refer to a suspension or

colloid in water. I know for people who distill its a no no to use

the term hydrosol for adding essential oil to water but chemically

that is a correct term. It results in a substance (essential oil)

suspended in water. When I think of hydrosol I think of colloidal

silver - not very appealing, that's why I use the term distillate.!

I do hope that there is more chemical analysis done on these

hydrosols or distillates soon. As you can see from the analysis done

on the rose hydrosol, there are quite a few monoterpenes that made

it into the hydrosol, in fact that is the highest concentration of

substances in the hydrosol (limonene, citronellol, myrcene,

linalool, terpinolene - all of which I think are monoterpenes. There

was also a good deal of ethanol which I don't know if it came from

the distillate or was added to preserve it. But that means that

essential oil components definately cross over into the hydrosol

which is expected since their boiling points are lower than water.

http://www.essentiallyoils.com/Features/Floral/floral.htm

But yes, it is fun to play with them!

> <<<There are a lot of vendors who merely mix some EO with water

and add a

> solubizer (sp?) and call it a hydrosol, but it is NOT a hydrosol.

>>>

> Yep, I think we all agree this is NOT a hydrosol.

> I don't mean to speak for , but I think she was really

addressing

> whether or not terpenes make it into the distillation water since

they are for the

> most part not water soluble. In other words, if terpenes made it

into rose

> water, then they could make it into orange peel water. I know

very little about

> essential oils, but can only assume that it would be the

monoterpinoids that

> would make it into the hydrosol---but I don't really know. I love

fooling

> around with plants and trying to understand the various

phytochemicals and methods

> of extraction---fascinating subject!

>

> Angie

>

> The Herbarie

> http://www.theherbarie.com/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/15/2004 9:38:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

cindyjones1@... writes:

Angie,

I do love trying new things with herbs too and have been trying my

hand at distilling. I have alot of I have used. Tell me,

what do you use the melissa hydrosol for?

Actually, I tend to like the term distillate better. Chemists have

used the term hydrosol for a long time to refer to a suspension or

colloid in water. I know for people who distill its a no no to use

the term hydrosol for adding essential oil to water but chemically

that is a correct term. It results in a substance (essential oil)

suspended in water. When I think of hydrosol I think of colloidal

silver - not very appealing, that's why I use the term distillate.!

I do hope that there is more chemical analysis done on these

hydrosols or distillates soon. As you can see from the analysis done

on the rose hydrosol, there are quite a few monoterpenes that made

it into the hydrosol, in fact that is the highest concentration of

substances in the hydrosol (limonene, citronellol, myrcene,

linalool, terpinolene - all of which I think are monoterpenes. There

was also a good deal of ethanol which I don't know if it came from

the distillate or was added to preserve it. But that means that

essential oil components definately cross over into the hydrosol

which is expected since their boiling points are lower than water.

http://www.essentiallyoils.com/Features/Floral/floral.htm

But yes, it is fun to play with them!

Hi and All,

The fun is endless! I'm in my element with herbal stuff I think I tend

to agree with you about the term hydrosol...but probably for different reasons.

A colleague and I were just discussing the terminology and I'm about to the

point of just referring to ours as 'Distillates'--which is, as you say,

technically absolutely correct---no matter the particular field of

study---herbalism, mainstream chemistry or aromatherapy. But anyway, it's

fascinating and I do

plan to do some research with the ones we produce.

I use officinalis herb for many, many things. It's my favorite

herb---I have used it in teas/infusions for many years for internal consumption

and

also external washes. I also make annual alcohol tinctures with it---but

think the infusions are more effective.

I have made lemon balm distillate for my own internal use, but would not

advocate it for anyone else. I'm using myself as a guinea pig, but there is too

much unknown to recommend the internal consumption of melissa distillate to

others. I recommend melissa hydrosol/distillate be used externally only----ours

are preserved and are for external skin care only. Since we're professionally

promoting cosmetics and not OTC drugs, I cannot recommend it for anything

other than soothing, nurturing, smoothing and all those other allowed terms

The research is there on melissa as I'm sure you know...antibacterial and

antiviral for external use---lots of info on herpes...... and internally for

it's

sedative/calming qualitities. But the research has been done on

hydroalcoholic and water preparations....and to my knowledge, not on

distillates.

As you know, melissa/lemon balm herb has been used traditionally for a long

time and there's lots of anecdotal good stuff about it You know all the

phytochemicals in melissa I'm sure....the phenolic compounds--the

flavonoids---and

other water solubles are going to be in the infusion. For the most part, the

terpenes are not going to be in the infusion. With the distillate, I'm not

certain about what's there---the water solubles for sure....and as you shared,

it looks like the monoterpenoids pass over. So anyway, with kinda sorta

knowing these things and guessing....I proceed carefully!

But, you're right --lots of fun stuff! Maybe you could be talked into

doing a bit of research on distillates??? By the way, I see that you were a

contributing writer to the The Herbal Drugstore by and

White---good book!

Take care -- it's fun talking about this stuff

Angie

The Herbarie

http://www.theherbarie.com/

[Guest guest]

-- Have you distilled before -- just curious? Regarding the melissa

(lemon balm) -- it is very low in volatile oils -- so you you lots of plant

material for a very tiny extraction of EO, and the resulting hydrosol.

hydrosol is excellent for skin. The EO is one of the best remedies for

herpes virus and its cousin viruses. -- Ricci Ackerman

In a message dated 7/15/2004 9:39:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

cindyjones1@... writes:

Angie,

I do love trying new things with herbs too and have been trying my

hand at distilling. I have alot of I have used. Tell me,

what do you use the melissa hydrosol for?

Actually, I tend to like the term distillate better. Chemists have

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/15/2004 6:03:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

snowiriss@... writes:

..

hydrosol is excellent for skin. The EO is one of the best remedies for

herpes virus and its cousin viruses. -- Ricci Ackerman

I LOVE Hydrosol. I still have some in my fridge, not sure if it's

still ok. But made some cream with it last year and marketed the cream as a

farmers handcreme.

in Cambridge

[Guest guest]

Ricci,

I've been doing a little distilling lately, just very small scale on

my stove top. I've read everything I can get my hands on about it.

Yes, I use in my lip balms for cold sores, it works great!

>

> -- Have you distilled before -- just curious? Regarding

the melissa

> (lemon balm) -- it is very low in volatile oils -- so you you lots

of plant

> material for a very tiny extraction of EO, and the resulting

hydrosol.

> hydrosol is excellent for skin. The EO is one of the best

remedies for

> herpes virus and its cousin viruses. -- Ricci Ackerman

[Guest guest]

Angie,

I wonder though if the water solubles (being the flavonoids, etc.)

would be in the distillate since they are not very volatile they

might stay behind. I'm just guessing since as we know there isn't

any analysis. In the rose analysis I don't see any flavonoids, but

then rose isn't high in that to start with!

So I guess for now its just enjoying them as they are right!

> With the distillate, I'm not

> certain about what's there---the water solubles for sure....and as

you shared,

> it looks like the monoterpenoids pass over. So anyway, with kinda

sorta

> knowing these things and guessing....I proceed carefully!

>

> But, you're right --lots of fun stuff! Maybe you could be

talked into

> doing a bit of research on distillates???

Yes, I've read everything I've seen about distillates, wish I had a

GC to do the analysis with!

By the way, I see that you were a

> contributing writer to the The Herbal Drugstore by

and

> White---good book!

Hey! Thanks for noticing! That was a great book to work on, I

enjoyed it.

>

> Take care -- it's fun talking about this stuff

> Angie

>

Sagescript Institute, LLC

Microbiology Assays

[Guest guest]

-- that's wonderfule! What method are you using to distill for the

EO's?

I have a pressure cooker, that's been revamped with laboratory glass tubing.

Write back! -- Ricci

In a message dated 7/16/2004 1:56:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

cindyjones1@... writes:

Ricci,

I've been doing a little distilling lately, just very small scale on

my stove top. I've read everything I can get my hands on about it.

Yes, I use in my lip balms for cold sores, it works great!

>

> -- Have you distilled before -- just curious? Regarding

the melissa

> (lemon balm) -- it is very low in volatile oils -- so you you lots

of plant

> material for a very tiny extraction of EO, and the resulting

hydrosol.

> hydrosol is excellent for skin. The EO is one of the best

remedies for

> herpes virus and its cousin viruses. -- Ricci Ackerman

[Guest guest]

Ricci,

I have a fondue pot that I attached copper tubing to. Its not the

best, but its what I have now. I have half the glassware I need to

have a more elaborate setup - I'll have to get to the store and buy

the other pieces soon so I can still use it this summer. I'm just

distilling for the hydrosols or distillates, I've got alot of herbs,

but not enough for EOs.

A pressure cooker sounds great, it must work nicely!

>

> -- that's wonderfule! What method are you using to distill

for the

> EO's?

>

> I have a pressure cooker, that's been revamped with laboratory

glass tubing.

> Write back! -- Ricci

>

[Guest guest]

Hello!, Cindi+Ricci-- I am new to the group(as if you can't tell!) I'd

really like to distill my own waters to use in soap making,but as far as

equipment, I don't know where to start. I have found 750ml flasks, but they

would be

too small, I believe. If I were to use a stainless steel stok pot, how to

attach tubing to lid? I would really appriciate any ideas.