Re: Re: Citrus Oils ** Folded or Otherwise

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/11/2004 8:45:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

cindyjones1@... writes:

The whole hydrosol thing is quite confusing to me, but the way I

understand it is that a hydrosol is water supersaturated with

essential oil. If so, then it does contain the same terpenes from the

essential oil except much diluted. I've only seen this one chemical

analysis of a hydrosol and it indeed does contain terpenes - the most

concentrated being limonene:

http://www.essentiallyoils.com/Features/Floral/floral.htm

This analysis however is for rose water rather than sweet orange so it

might be different. Have you seen other chemical analysis of hydrosols

anywhere?

Hi ,

I'm with you on the hydrosols as far as confusing But I don't believe I

would define a hydrosol as being supersaturated with essential oil. In fact,

they typically contain very little essential oil. But much depends on the

particular method of distillation--hydrodistillation, steam distillation, etc.

Plus the time of year, day and plant material of course---some by nature, like

rose and melissa just don't want to give up much essential oil. Others, like

peppermint will give up lots by comparison. Most distillers have the goal of

obtaining essential oils and therefore separate out as much eo as

possible--leaving little behind--of course only an analysis would tell for sure.

I've done

it both ways. For my rose and melissa, since they give so little eo anyway, I

just distill for hydrosol, so there IS essential oil in the hydrosol---but

again, analysis would tell for sure how much.

Yes, there needs to be more work/research on hydrosols. I'm thinking that

you, like me, look at botanicals from an herbalist's perspective, rather than

from the aromatherapy perspective. I know that terpenes won't be in an infusion

made with water since they are either volatile or lipophilic, but since

hydrosol is from a distillation process and does contain some volatiles, I can

see

how it could contain terpenes. But which terpenes? Isn't it the

monoterpenoids that are mostly in essential oils? So, therefore it seems that

it would be

minute amounts of monoterpenoids...but I don't really know. The little bit

I've read on obtaining terpenes from citrus (mostly for the cleaning industry)

states that they are not water soluble?? There's some good information out

there on essential oils and a great deal on herbalism, but not anything much on

hydrosol---the field is ripe

Angie

The Herbarie

http://www.theherbarie.com/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/11/2004 8:45:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

cindyjones1@... writes:

The whole hydrosol thing is quite confusing to me, but the way I

understand it is that a hydrosol is water supersaturated with

essential oil. If so, then it does contain the same terpenes from the

essential oil except much diluted. I've only seen this one chemical

analysis of a hydrosol and it indeed does contain terpenes - the most

concentrated being limonene:

http://www.essentiallyoils.com/Features/Floral/floral.htm

This analysis however is for rose water rather than sweet orange so it

might be different. Have you seen other chemical analysis of hydrosols

anywhere?

Hi ,

I'm with you on the hydrosols as far as confusing But I don't believe I

would define a hydrosol as being supersaturated with essential oil. In fact,

they typically contain very little essential oil. But much depends on the

particular method of distillation--hydrodistillation, steam distillation, etc.

Plus the time of year, day and plant material of course---some by nature, like

rose and melissa just don't want to give up much essential oil. Others, like

peppermint will give up lots by comparison. Most distillers have the goal of

obtaining essential oils and therefore separate out as much eo as

possible--leaving little behind--of course only an analysis would tell for sure.

I've done

it both ways. For my rose and melissa, since they give so little eo anyway, I

just distill for hydrosol, so there IS essential oil in the hydrosol---but

again, analysis would tell for sure how much.

Yes, there needs to be more work/research on hydrosols. I'm thinking that

you, like me, look at botanicals from an herbalist's perspective, rather than

from the aromatherapy perspective. I know that terpenes won't be in an infusion

made with water since they are either volatile or lipophilic, but since

hydrosol is from a distillation process and does contain some volatiles, I can

see

how it could contain terpenes. But which terpenes? Isn't it the

monoterpenoids that are mostly in essential oils? So, therefore it seems that

it would be

minute amounts of monoterpenoids...but I don't really know. The little bit

I've read on obtaining terpenes from citrus (mostly for the cleaning industry)

states that they are not water soluble?? There's some good information out

there on essential oils and a great deal on herbalism, but not anything much on

hydrosol---the field is ripe

Angie

The Herbarie

http://www.theherbarie.com/

[Guest guest]

-

wrote:

Angie,

The whole hydrosol thing is quite confusing to me, but the way I

understand it is that a hydrosol is water supersaturated with

essential oil.

A true hydrosol is the water by-product of steam distillation for of

plant material for EOs. When the steam goes through the cooling oils

and into the tank, the hydrosol and the EO separate out (because of

course water and oil don't mix) and you are left with two separate

substances. The hydrosol for the most part used to be dumped out as a

waste product, but now we know better! :-D So, this would contain only

'trace' amounts of the EO, along with (mostly) the hydrophillic

portions of the plant material.

There are a lot of vendors who merely mix some EO with water and add a

solubizer (sp?) and call it a hydrosol, but it is NOT a hydrosol. There

is also someone fairly well-known in the AT world who has written a book

about the use of hydrosols. Only thing is, she includes hydrosols from

plants that are not steam-distilled to produce an EO, but the EO is

extracted by some other method, and therefore no hydrosol of the plant

exists. Turns out, as she told a couple of us visiting her booth at a

conference, that what she calls a hydrosol is the result of passing

steam over an EO. Very much NOT the same thing. So it totally negates

all the info in her book. Such a shame, as it would be valuable to have

a reliable, informative book on the subject.

> If so, then it does contain the same terpenes from the

> essential oil except much diluted.

Terpenes are not the culprits in photosensitization, fuorocoumarins

are. SO I don't know what all the fuss about terpenes has been in this

discussion.

>

> This analysis however is for rose water rather than sweet orange so it

> might be different.

They would most definitely be different, as they are two completely

different plants.

HTH-

Lynda

--

Lynda Sorenson

http://Luna-Aromatics.com

The home of " Arizona Balm " The natural solution to dry problem skin

Hand Made Goats Milk Soaps and Soy Wax Candles

[Guest guest]

This is what I get for writing first thing in the morning before I am

awake! Typos and mass confusion!

So I meant to say that the steam passes through cooling COILS, not

cooling oils. Duh! And the two substances that you are left with after

the steam cools are of course the EO and the hydrosol. Depending on the

weight/density of the particular EO, the EO can either be on top or on

the bottom of the hydrosol, but they do separate out into two pretty

distinct layers. Butch can say a whole lot more about this process than

I can, since he has been right there millions of times. And his rose

hydro is to die for!

Lynda

Lynda Sorenson wrote:

> -

>

> wrote:

> Angie,

> The whole hydrosol thing is quite confusing to me, but the way I

> understand it is that a hydrosol is water supersaturated with

> essential oil.

>

> A true hydrosol is the water by-product of steam distillation for of

> plant material for EOs. When the steam goes through the cooling oils

> and into the tank, the hydrosol and the EO separate out (because of

> course water and oil don't mix) and you are left with two separate

> substances. The hydrosol for the most part used to be dumped out as a

> waste product, but now we know better! :-D So, this would contain only

> 'trace' amounts of the EO, along with (mostly) the hydrophillic

> portions of the plant material.

--

Lynda Sorenson

http://Luna-Aromatics.com

The home of " Arizona Balm " The natural solution to dry problem skin

Hand Made Goats Milk Soaps and Soy Wax Candles

[Guest guest]

This is what I get for writing first thing in the morning before I am

awake! Typos and mass confusion!

So I meant to say that the steam passes through cooling COILS, not

cooling oils. Duh! And the two substances that you are left with after

the steam cools are of course the EO and the hydrosol. Depending on the

weight/density of the particular EO, the EO can either be on top or on

the bottom of the hydrosol, but they do separate out into two pretty

distinct layers. Butch can say a whole lot more about this process than

I can, since he has been right there millions of times. And his rose

hydro is to die for!

Lynda

Lynda Sorenson wrote:

> -

>

> wrote:

> Angie,

> The whole hydrosol thing is quite confusing to me, but the way I

> understand it is that a hydrosol is water supersaturated with

> essential oil.

>

> A true hydrosol is the water by-product of steam distillation for of

> plant material for EOs. When the steam goes through the cooling oils

> and into the tank, the hydrosol and the EO separate out (because of

> course water and oil don't mix) and you are left with two separate

> substances. The hydrosol for the most part used to be dumped out as a

> waste product, but now we know better! :-D So, this would contain only

> 'trace' amounts of the EO, along with (mostly) the hydrophillic

> portions of the plant material.

--

Lynda Sorenson

http://Luna-Aromatics.com

The home of " Arizona Balm " The natural solution to dry problem skin

Hand Made Goats Milk Soaps and Soy Wax Candles