at the beginning and heartbroken

[Guest guest]

Hi I am at the beginning of this journey. I have a lot to read and

will look through past messages of this group and see if you have

any files that will help me.

I have a lot of immune system problems but I have lived many

different places over the years and they didn't seem to tie in to

those locations. However, over a period of several years I became

severely reactive to mushrooms in food and cannot have food that is

cooked anywhere near the mushrooms. If I do I get severe

generalized joint pain that only goes away with steroids.

I have been able to control my symptoms by staying away from

mushrooms and with a great product (which I highly recommend) called

UltraInflamX.

However I continue to have chronic, low grade inflammation, an achy,

burning feeling in both knees. Recently we were away from home for

3 weeks and I noticed it was gone. Then upon our return home I

noticed the knee pain was suddenly back within an hour or so. I

thought maybe it was the humidity because we were in a very

different climate during our trip. But then we had to go to a

funeral out of town where it was also humid and the pain was gone

within hours of leaving home. Guess what? I am back today and it

returned within MINUTES of being in our apartment.

I am heartbroken. I LOVE our apartment. We moved here only two

years ago to get out of a bad situation in Manhattan. Incidentally

or maybe not so incidentally I found out later when we went back to

that apartment that mold had been growing behind the walls there and

then it got much worse after we left.

What do I do now???? I am so so sad I can't even start to think

about what we will do. I guess I have to test for mold first.

Should I avoid other apartments in this building if we move? It is

a large building. Is there a way to test other apartments before we

move in? I just can't imagine how we will move from here. We moved

here to save money and we are not ready financially to move anywhere

else. (Sigh)

Thanks for listening. Any advice is appreciated.

Lori

[Guest guest]

Lori,

Sorry to hear that things aren't getting better. It does seem that

you need to get your new place tested. Unfortunately, it's pretty

expensive unless you want to do some tape lifts yourself. But I

would have a professional come in and do a survey as well as take

some air samples and tape lifts. Then you'll know how bad the place

is.

Unfortunately, if the spore counts are way above the outside levels,

the smart thing to do would be to leave all of you contaminated stuff

and start over somewhere. The sooner you do this, the less sick you

will be down the road.

The fact that your knees are on fire indicate that your experiencing

inflammation at home. Not a good sign. For your health, you'll need

to get out of there as soon as you can...

>

> Hi I am at the beginning of this journey. I have a lot to read and

> will look through past messages of this group and see if you have

> any files that will help me.

>

> I have a lot of immune system problems but I have lived many

> different places over the years and they didn't seem to tie in to

> those locations. However, over a period of several years I became

> severely reactive to mushrooms in food and cannot have food that is

> cooked anywhere near the mushrooms. If I do I get severe

> generalized joint pain that only goes away with steroids.

>

> I have been able to control my symptoms by staying away from

> mushrooms and with a great product (which I highly recommend)

called

> UltraInflamX.

>

> However I continue to have chronic, low grade inflammation, an

achy,

> burning feeling in both knees. Recently we were away from home for

> 3 weeks and I noticed it was gone. Then upon our return home I

> noticed the knee pain was suddenly back within an hour or so. I

> thought maybe it was the humidity because we were in a very

> different climate during our trip. But then we had to go to a

> funeral out of town where it was also humid and the pain was gone

> within hours of leaving home. Guess what? I am back today and it

> returned within MINUTES of being in our apartment.

>

> I am heartbroken. I LOVE our apartment. We moved here only two

> years ago to get out of a bad situation in Manhattan. Incidentally

> or maybe not so incidentally I found out later when we went back to

> that apartment that mold had been growing behind the walls there

and

> then it got much worse after we left.

>

> What do I do now???? I am so so sad I can't even start to think

> about what we will do. I guess I have to test for mold first.

> Should I avoid other apartments in this building if we move? It is

> a large building. Is there a way to test other apartments before

we

> move in? I just can't imagine how we will move from here. We

moved

> here to save money and we are not ready financially to move

anywhere

> else. (Sigh)

>

> Thanks for listening. Any advice is appreciated.

>

> Lori

>

[Guest guest]

,

I checked into how much it would be to have someone come in and test and three

different places gave me quotes of $2500 and up. We can't pay that. We just

don't have it. If we do tape lifts ourselves I am not sure how to do them if we

can't see anything to do it on, so that's why I am not sure if we have mold or

what else it could be.

I just don't know if there is any way we can get out of here financially -- plus

this is another issue I don't understand. Say we do figure out a way to move --

where do we move to??? How do we know we won't have or get mold in a new place?

thanks for any feedback-- not trying to be difficult just trying to be realistic

to some extent because I am not seeing any pathway. We are very strapped

financially already.

Lori

[Guest guest]

Lori,

Honestly, I was in the same situation a few months ago and eventually

I still had to move.

Landlords often don't care practically at all about tenants health.

Their logic is 'if they don't like it, they can move'. Unfortunately,

the laws aren't strong enough to force them to change yet, and

too many people these days are dealing with survival issues on so many

levels, that I just don;t see the situation getting better until there

is a massive outcry forcing them to do it.

My advice to you is to quietly start looking for another place, a

place with a good landlord who will deal with moisture intrusion. In

the meantime, short term, hammer at them trying to get them to fix the

situation, and if they don't respond, get the local authorities

involved.. (however, be aware, you need to be able to show them

visible mold, if its inside the walls, this is difficult to

demonstrate. Each situation is different.

Can you afford to buy several 20' fans and the 20' purple 3M Filtrete

filters to fit them?

(Duct tape them on) Are you getting as much fresh air into your apt as

possible? (the 'dilution solution') Better to swelter in the summer

and freeze in the winter than breathe undiluted toxic mold..

seriously..

And invest in a big bottle of alpha-lipoic acid capsules and

n-acetylcysteine capsules.. (these are two super antioxidants that

help fight mycotoxin induced cytoxoxicity, cancer, neurotoxicity,

etc.) Milk thistle extract is good too.. and of course, Vitamins, C,

E, selenium, zinc, fish oil, garlic, etc.

But most importantly, filter out somehow and also do your best to

dilute that mold in the air.. And start fighting.. if your landlord

wont fix it, ultimately, you quite possibly will have to move..

Given that you are a cancer survivor you would probably not be able to

prevail in court if say, you got cancer, either.. (one of the most

likely outcomes, a few years down the line, of longterm mold

exposure..)

Very few people who mold injures ever even get their days in court..

its very hard for them to get lawyers.. so don't fool yourself.. the

situation sucks..

I know this won't make you feel any better, but you are not alone. All

around the country, millions of poor people are being displaced from

affordable housing now that rents are going up again. Many of them

have nowhere to go. If you can't afford to buy, and your affordable

rented space is killing you, you are caught between a rock and a hard

place.

Read yesterdays New York Times for a disturbing article about just HOW

quickly rents are going up in places like New York City (the average

rent for a two bedroom went up $500 - in ONE MONTH)

Supply and demand.. I guess..

[Guest guest]

massive outcry forcing them to do it.

I agree It's the Only way.

Elvira

Re: [] Re: at the beginning and heartbroken

Lori,

Honestly, I was in the same situation a few months ago and eventually

I still had to move.

Landlords often don't care practically at all about tenants health.

Their logic is 'if they don't like it, they can move'. Unfortunately,

the laws aren't strong enough to force them to change yet, and

too many people these days are dealing with survival issues on so many

levels, that I just don;t see the situation getting better until there

is a massive outcry forcing them to do it.

My advice to you is to quietly start looking for another place, a

place with a good landlord who will deal with moisture intrusion. In

the meantime, short term, hammer at them trying to get them to fix the

situation, and if they don't respond, get the local authorities

involved.. (however, be aware, you need to be able to show them

visible mold, if its inside the walls, this is difficult to

demonstrate. Each situation is different.

Can you afford to buy several 20' fans and the 20' purple 3M Filtrete

filters to fit them?

(Duct tape them on) Are you getting as much fresh air into your apt as

possible? (the 'dilution solution') Better to swelter in the summer

and freeze in the winter than breathe undiluted toxic mold..

seriously..

And invest in a big bottle of alpha-lipoic acid capsules and

n-acetylcysteine capsules.. (these are two super antioxidants that

help fight mycotoxin induced cytoxoxicity, cancer, neurotoxicity,

etc.) Milk thistle extract is good too.. and of course, Vitamins, C,

E, selenium, zinc, fish oil, garlic, etc.

But most importantly, filter out somehow and also do your best to

dilute that mold in the air.. And start fighting.. if your landlord

wont fix it, ultimately, you quite possibly will have to move..

Given that you are a cancer survivor you would probably not be able to

prevail in court if say, you got cancer, either.. (one of the most

likely outcomes, a few years down the line, of longterm mold

exposure..)

Very few people who mold injures ever even get their days in court..

its very hard for them to get lawyers.. so don't fool yourself.. the

situation sucks..

I know this won't make you feel any better, but you are not alone. All

around the country, millions of poor people are being displaced from

affordable housing now that rents are going up again. Many of them

have nowhere to go. If you can't afford to buy, and your affordable

rented space is killing you, you are caught between a rock and a hard

place.

Read yesterdays New York Times for a disturbing article about just HOW

quickly rents are going up in places like New York City (the average

rent for a two bedroom went up $500 - in ONE MONTH)

Supply and demand.. I guess..

[Guest guest]

Lori,

I've had my house in Dutchess County, NY tested 3 times.

The first time included an infra red camera (to see if any mold was

behind the walls) and 4 air samples - 800 bucks. The next two were

just a combination of tape lifts and air samples, and were each about

700 bucks. So I think if that's more in your ballpark, you should

still look around.

Also, Texas Tech University has a Center for Indoor Air Research that

I've heard does a good job and is very reasonable. Most items are

under 40 bucks.

http://indoorairresearch.net/

Look under - Send Us Samples...Instructions for how to do a tape lift

and under Sample Identification for the price list.

I wish I had done a tape lift first last year. I went about 6 months

not know what was going on in my house. Was the chronic fatigue

caused by Lyme's Disease? Carbon Monoxide poisoning? Or mold.

After the mold tests, I had my answer....

>

> ,

>

> I checked into how much it would be to have someone come in and

test and three different places gave me quotes of $2500 and up. We

can't pay that. We just don't have it. If we do tape lifts

ourselves I am not sure how to do them if we can't see anything to do

it on, so that's why I am not sure if we have mold or what else it

could be.

>

> I just don't know if there is any way we can get out of here

financially -- plus this is another issue I don't understand. Say we

do figure out a way to move -- where do we move to??? How do we know

we won't have or get mold in a new place? thanks for any feedback--

not trying to be difficult just trying to be realistic to some extent

because I am not seeing any pathway. We are very strapped

financially already.

>

> Lori

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for all the responses!

Actually the thing is I do not think there is a moisture intrusion problem here,

and the landlord is being completely cooperative about it. But what can they do

if there does not seem to be a problem? We can't find any visible mold ... I'm

still not sure if it IS Mold I just don't know how to test to see what IS wrong,

you know? My landlord is not refusing to fix anything, we haven't asked them to

fix anything, because we don't know what needs to be fixed. They came and

looked around with me and we did not see anything that was obviously mold or

even suspicious for mold At first my husband and I thought there was mold in

the bathroom but it doesn't seem to be mold and is gone now after my husband did

a quick cleaning.

I am already taking N-acetylcyestine and ALA. I really highly recommend the

powder I take that they are in called UltraInflamX. It is amazing.

I definitely know about the rent problem -- I lived in Manhattan for 12 years

and it almost bankrupted me but it was hard to get out because my landlords

wouldn't give us our deposit back (we're still suing them). One month they

raised our rent by 40 percent on a tiny one-bedroom.

I'm not sure about the fans you're talking about -- we get really good air flow

in here because it's a floor-thru apartment, meaning there are windows at both

ends of the rooms, and the apartment is pretty small. Where do you get these

special fans and filters? I'll have to look up more info on that . And the

bathroom has a window in it so that is good. No air ducts or vents.

In the meantime on KC's advice I did purchase a HEPA filter. We didn't have one

before (had to throw ours out after 9/11).

Lori

[Guest guest]

,

800 bucks would be pretty impossible at this point but eventually we could save

up for it if we had to. I don't know that it would be as cheap here in

Westchester as in Dutchess, though. Like I said the places I called were in the

$2500 range for the basic services. I can still look around, though. I saw the

Texas Tech site but I don't see how we could do a tape lift, again, because what

would we lift if we have no visible mold? But maybe I will call them and ask --

but does anyone here know?

I am going to the doctor and I am going to ask to get tested for lyme. It seems

related to the apartment but I was traveling a lot this summer and in wooded

areas and could have gotten a tick bite without knowing about it, so hopefully I

can get that tested to rule it out anyway.

Thanks again!

Lori

[Guest guest]

I had to pay 400 fo 1 air sample and 75 exta for the trip charge.

nippernine09 <nipper_nine@...> wrote: Lori,

I've had my house in Dutchess County, NY tested 3 times.

The first time included an infra red camera (to see if any mold was

behind the walls) and 4 air samples - 800 bucks. The next two were

just a combination of tape lifts and air samples, and were each about

700 bucks. So I think if that's more in your ballpark, you should

still look around.

Also, Texas Tech University has a Center for Indoor Air Research that

I've heard does a good job and is very reasonable. Most items are

under 40 bucks.

http://indoorairresearch.net/

Look under - Send Us Samples...Instructions for how to do a tape lift

and under Sample Identification for the price list.

I wish I had done a tape lift first last year. I went about 6 months

not know what was going on in my house. Was the chronic fatigue

caused by Lyme's Disease? Carbon Monoxide poisoning? Or mold.

After the mold tests, I had my answer....

>

> ,

>

> I checked into how much it would be to have someone come in and

test and three different places gave me quotes of $2500 and up. We

can't pay that. We just don't have it. If we do tape lifts

ourselves I am not sure how to do them if we can't see anything to do

it on, so that's why I am not sure if we have mold or what else it

could be.

>

> I just don't know if there is any way we can get out of here

financially -- plus this is another issue I don't understand. Say we

do figure out a way to move -- where do we move to??? How do we know

we won't have or get mold in a new place? thanks for any feedback--

not trying to be difficult just trying to be realistic to some extent

because I am not seeing any pathway. We are very strapped

financially already.

>

> Lori

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

in 2001-02 it cost me $500.00 on each house to have a company do

tape and swab tests, so it sounds like costs are getting a little

cheap. my insurance co. did the airtest so I have no idea what the

cost were on

them.

> >

> > ,

> >

> > I checked into how much it would be to have someone come in and

> test and three different places gave me quotes of $2500 and up. We

> can't pay that. We just don't have it. If we do tape lifts

> ourselves I am not sure how to do them if we can't see anything to

do

> it on, so that's why I am not sure if we have mold or what else it

> could be.

> >

> > I just don't know if there is any way we can get out of here

> financially -- plus this is another issue I don't understand. Say

we

> do figure out a way to move -- where do we move to??? How do we

know

> we won't have or get mold in a new place? thanks for any feedback--

> not trying to be difficult just trying to be realistic to some

extent

> because I am not seeing any pathway. We are very strapped

> financially already.

> >

> > Lori

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Lori,

>I'm not sure about the fans you're talking about -- we get really

good air flow in here because it's a floor-thru apartment, meaning

there are windows at both ends of the rooms, and the apartment is

pretty small.

Where is your air coming from? Is there an air shaft that goes down to

a basement or crawlspace area? Any tall building will have a chimney

effect that conducts air upward through any shaft that goes

vertically.. this can be an air shaft, chimney of any kind, inside the

walls.. etc.. If there is a lot of mold somewhere in your building, it

will move around.. even if it can't be seen or even smelled..

If you do air testing, you need to do it when the air conditions are

bringing the mold or whatever into your space.. And be aware that air

testing should never be used to say a space is okay.. only that it has

a problem.. (One bad air test says there IS definitely a problem, but

one good test doesnt mean there isn't... got that? Also, some places

that have bad mycotoxin/particulated mold problem don't even have

active mold infestations at that time.. so spores wont show up at

all.. For example, the problem can be the result from a problem in the

past.. say with condensation on cold outer walls in an attic last

winter growing mold then that has all dried out now, still filled with

mycotoxins - basically toxic old mold powder..)

Gusty days and late afternoons and evening were the worst for me in my

apartment situation.. but air testing often ends up being done in the

morning before the wind comes up.. got the picture?

>Where do you get these special fans and filters? I'll have to look

up more info on that . And the bathroom has a window in it so that is

good. No air ducts or vents.

Where does the air coming in that window come from? Also, all

bathrooms should have vents and fans that exhaust moist indoor air

from showers.. same with kitchens and cooking..

If you ARE keeping your humidity down indoors and you STILL have a

problem, then the probable culprit is either a leak within the walls

or a serious old problem that was never addressed..

Oh, or tile in the shower that was installed right over sheetrock..

without a vapor barrier..that is asking for trouble..

Do you see of smell anything anywhere, or do you see places on walls

where mold may have been before but painted over?

Or, are you living in an apartment with old lead paint that is

peeling, falling off.. (say, around the windows)

If you posted some pictures somewhere.. people here could perhaps help

much more than they can now and here.. a picture really does tell a

story..

I meant 20' square box style fans, the kind that sit directly on the

floor that you can buy at any large housewares stores.. and 20'

'allergen micro filtration' furnace filters.. the kind I used when I

needed to are made by 3M and they have a purple label and they are

MERV 13, I think.. they cost around $15-20 - not cheap..

You duct tape the filter to the intake side of the fan, with the arrow

pointing towards the fan.. (this way the dirt collects on the outside

where it can be blown off outside..)

I have seen the 20 inch square box fans for as little as $10 but they

are more frequently around $20

I hope that this advice is helpful.. ..

>In the meantime on KC's advice I did purchase a HEPA filter. We

didn't have one before (had to throw ours out after 9/11).

Sounds to me as if you may have also gotten a big dose of bad stuff

during the 9-11 nightmare.. Were you in Lower Manhattan during that

time?

[Guest guest]

The guy I used for the last two tests was from Westchester - Olmsted

Environmentals. He came highly recommended from my doctor at the

time, Eckerdt Johannning.

Actually I think he's in Putnam county. But I'd give him a call and

let him know your budget, and I'm sure he can work something out for

you. The owner is Ed Olmsted, who did the testing...

As far as the swabs, you don't need visible mold. You'd only have to

do lifts off of the surface of things like your tables, floors, etc

until the tape is no longer sticky (full). I didn't have any visible

mold anywhere, but when they did spore counts, it was off the

charts. At least they can identify the type of spores and let you

know what you're dealing with. Then a good indoor air

environmentalist should be able to find the source.

Good luck!

>

> ,

>

> 800 bucks would be pretty impossible at this point but eventually

we could save up for it if we had to. I don't know that it would be

as cheap here in Westchester as in Dutchess, though. Like I said the

places I called were in the $2500 range for the basic services. I

can still look around, though. I saw the Texas Tech site but I don't

see how we could do a tape lift, again, because what would we lift if

we have no visible mold? But maybe I will call them and ask -- but

does anyone here know?

>

> I am going to the doctor and I am going to ask to get tested for

lyme. It seems related to the apartment but I was traveling a lot

this summer and in wooded areas and could have gotten a tick bite

without knowing about it, so hopefully I can get that tested to rule

it out anyway.

>

> Thanks again!

>

> Lori

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, what does the infrared camera do? Does it

look for hot spots behind walls or something?

Was there anything behind your walls?

--- nippernine09 <nipper_nine@...> wrote:

> The first time included an infra red camera (to

> see if any mold was

> behind the walls) and 4 air samples - 800

> bucks. The next two were

> just a combination of tape lifts and air

> samples, and were each about

> 700 bucks. So I think if that's more in your

> ballpark, you should

> still look around.

>

>