Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 I'm just being lazy now -- so the scientific literature about trapping heavy metals is not relevant to us -- what does it relate to? Sally oneill_liam wrote: Celia, I don't know much about NCD as a product, but here's my thoughts: It's dispersed as solid particles in water. I don't see how the particles can cross into the body through the intestinal wall. The only way that ionic solids can traverse the intestinge is to break down into component ions and move acrss as indidiual charged ions. If this is what NCD does, then that means we're pouring aluminium ions into our kids. If this is the case, then the NCD product has fallen apart and is no longer a zeolite. It would increae Al ion concentratoins wihtout adding benefit. I don't think this is the case, as parents see benefits rather than problems with NCD treatment. So, what does it do if it's confined to the gut? Can it chelate? The use of zeolites to trap heavy metals is well characterised in the scientific literature. There are hundreds of papers decribing this. TO trap metals, the zeolite has to come into contact with the metal directly. It can't do this without getting into the body. So, NCD should not chelate directly from our kids. (Mandi is goign to kill me for this bit!) NCD also claim some immune enhancement properties, but I dont know how effective zeolites are in this regard. My guess is that the NCD must be working to clean up the gut's own immune system and to aid detox by trapping any heavy metals that are present in the intestines. So, can it chelate mercury from the brain? I doubt it. What it might do is help the body to get it's immune system sorted and this may help the body to detox naturally. But I've yet to see any evidence of NCD actually chelating our kids. I haven't seen one urinary metal analysis or equivalent ot show that it can chelate metals from a human body. Gut problems tend to be at the core of much of our kid's issues. So it makes sense that the NCD can help out without getting into the body. There's a lot more to helping ASD kids that just chelation. That's my guess, but I'm open to correction. Specifically, if someone can sugest how an intact zeolite can cross the intestinal wall and get out through the kidney or through the stool, then let me know. If this can be shown, then there is no reason why NCD would not be a very effective chelator. Liam > > > > It's not fat soluble (scientifically, it's a polar charged oxide and > > this will not mix with non-polar fats). > > It should not be water soluble either as zeolite's are very stable > > solids that don't break down into component ions in water. I'm > > guessing it must be dispersed in water as small particles in order to > > get it into people. > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 25/02/2007 15:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Except maybe something else could be doing the good things? xx Sally Mum231ASD@... wrote: In a message dated 26/02/2007 10:58:56 GMT Standard Time, oneill_liam@ .co. uk writes: So, what does it do if it's confined to the gut? Can it chelate? The use of zeolites to trap heavy metals is well characterised in the scientific literature. There are hundreds of papers decribing this. TO trap metals, the zeolite has to come into contact with the metal directly. It can't do this without getting into the body. So, NCD should not chelate directly from our kids. (Mandi is goign to kill >>Nah I no kill you Liam I don't particularly care whats its doing, or how it does it - it is doing good things and thats enough for me Mandi x No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 25/02/2007 15:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 But going back to my original query - something caused Tom to excrete three times as much antimony in his hair in the six months following starting NCD. Nothing else new chelation wise was being used although we did introduce EDTA orally about 2 weeks before the hair sample was taken (I've checked dates now). So - for about the first three months he was also having a blob of authia cream before bed (had been for the previous year) but no other " chelating " agent. A) if NCD mops up rather than chelating would that come out in hair? can the body just suddenly " buck up " detox wise? We're over 2 years into this process now, it's not like the impact of starting chelation from scratch when all sorts of things can get stirred up. I dont want to ignore something that, on the face of it, might have caused him a big dump of antimony, something that he has been high in since his very first hair test in 2004. Steph > > > In a message dated 26/02/2007 10:58:56 GMT Standard Time, > oneill_liam@... writes: > > So, what does it do if it's confined to the gut? Can it chelate? The > use of zeolites to trap heavy metals is well characterised in the > scientific literature. There are hundreds of papers decribing this. > TO trap metals, the zeolite has to come into contact with the metal > directly. It can't do this without getting into the body. So, NCD > should not chelate directly from our kids. (Mandi is goign to kill > > > > >>Nah I no kill you Liam I don't particularly care whats its doing, or > how it does it - it is doing good things and thats enough for me > > Mandi x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Sally, the scientific literature shows that when zeolites come into contact with metals, they do trap them in a manner which would act like chelation. However, if the NCD can't leave the cut and enter the body, it can't work directly on the metals in the child's body. Hope that explains it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 So it works in the test tube but it's not apparent it would work in the gut? Sally oneill_liam wrote: Sally, the scientific literature shows that when zeolites come into contact with metals, they do trap them in a manner which would act like chelation. However, if the NCD can't leave the cut and enter the body, it can't work directly on the metals in the child's body. Hope that explains it. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 25/02/2007 15:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 I just had a look at the only patent I could find on this (US 6,288,045). It doesn't mention chealtion, mercury, lead or metals anywhere. It's all about cancer removal. This suggests to me that the NCD zeolite can remove non-normal cells. This might allow the gut to return to normal and releive inflammation, allow adequate nutrient ingestion and minimise the resources spent fighting infection. If this happened, then I wouldn't be surprised to see the bodies own systems step up a gear and start to dump toxins. But that's just a theory from me. At the endof the day, if it works,..... > > > In a message dated 26/02/2007 12:05:57 GMT Standard Time, > bobsallyeva@... writes: > > Except maybe something else could be doing the good things? > > > > >>We been at this game 7 years Sally, you just have to trust me, I know the > Zeolites are doing something good > > Mandi x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 No, That's not what I'm saying. It will work anywhere that it comes in contact with mercury. I just don't see how it can come into contact with mercury (present in the child's body) if it's stuck in the child's gut and can't get into the body. (Weird concept time - items inside your gut are not in your body! They have to move across the intestinal wall to get into your body) So, mercury in your intestine won't reduce mercury in the brain. Well, that's my thoughts on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 > > > > > > In a message dated 26/02/2007 12:05:57 GMT Standard Time, > > bobsallyeva@ writes: > > > > Except maybe something else could be doing the good things? > > > > > > > > >>We been at this game 7 years Sally, you just have to trust me, > I know the > > Zeolites are doing something good > > > > Mandi x > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 And we've seen good things too! > > > In a message dated 26/02/2007 12:05:57 GMT Standard Time, > bobsallyeva@... writes: > > Except maybe something else could be doing the good things? > > > > >>We been at this game 7 years Sally, you just have to trust me, I know the > Zeolites are doing something good > > Mandi x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Damned if I know, but the patent claims that the zeolite acted against cancer cells and didn't damage normal tissue. Specifically, they claim it selectively targets cancer cells due to " the different surface chemistry " of the cancer cells. Is it possible that the same effect can be produced against viral or fungal cells? > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 26/02/2007 12:05:57 GMT Standard Time, > > > bobsallyeva@ writes: > > > > > > Except maybe something else could be doing the good things? > > > > > > > > > > > > >>We been at this game 7 years Sally, you just have to trust me, > > I know the > > > Zeolites are doing something good > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Rather than guessing, Maybe you might join the group that specializes in NCD at http://health./group/AutismNCD/ Read up on all the posts and you may find your answers. There is lots of information about NCD and why it works and how it works in the files section. Hope that helps, Bhushana Re: NCD alluminium Damned if I know, but the patent claims that the zeolite acted against cancer cells and didn't damage normal tissue. Specifically, they claim it selectively targets cancer cells due to "the different surface chemistry" of the cancer cells. Is it possible that the same effect can be produced against viral or fungal cells? > > >> > > > > > In a message dated 26/02/2007 12:05:57 GMT Standard Time, > > > bobsallyeva@ writes:> > > > > > Except maybe something else could be doing the good things?> > > > > > > > > > > > >>We been at this game 7 years Sally, you just have to trust me, > > I know the > > > Zeolites are doing something good> > > > > > Mandi x> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 We bought our first batch off a chap on ebay who rang us up and told us what a terrific help it had been to his wife who was in the advanced stages of cancer of the kidney. This was after we'd purchased so not really hard sell. I am 100% sure he genuinely believed it was a life line for her - that it had shrunk a tumour on her kidney. Comparatively, heavy metals would seem like a walk in the park! I think Sally spoke to him also. I am already a member of the NCD group and there are some very, very compelling reports there. However, I would never go onto the NCD group and post these kind of questions, it's not " etiquette " - whereas here I'd like to think we can chuck about how and why something can work. NCD is the first Chelator (or not!) I've used that's not based in chemistry OR the natural world. I.e. it's midway between DMPS and garlic - without a foot in either camp. Not that natural is necessarily good as we proved with our disastrous course of VRM! Steph x > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 26/02/2007 12:05:57 GMT Standard Time, > > > > bobsallyeva@ writes: > > > > > > > > Except maybe something else could be doing the good things? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>We been at this game 7 years Sally, you just have to trust > me, > > > I know the > > > > Zeolites are doing something good > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 > > Damned if I know, That about sums it up! :-) Wow, this stuff is wierd. Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 I joined up some time back and read lots on NCD. Didn't see a single piece of credible data that would explain why this stuff is effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 26/02/2007 12:05:57 GMT Standard Time, > > > > bobsallyeva@ writes: > > > > > > > > Except maybe something else could be doing the good things? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>We been at this game 7 years Sally, you just have to trust > me, > > > I know the > > > > Zeolites are doing something good > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 > > I joined up some time back and read lots on NCD. > Didn't see a single piece of credible data that would explain why > this stuff is effective. > > This is where I'm at as well. People there are lovely, but nothing I've read would explain what I saw with my son, or the rather instananeous good stuff some of my friend's have seen. Anita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 just to say my opnion iwas going through tribunal at the stage of starting zeoolite. the diffference was unbelievble that the tables turned on me. regards nasreen > > > In a message dated 25/02/2007 14:02:57 GMT Standard Time, > C.Forrest@... writes: > > I also think his claims that the Zeolite product is an immune system > modulator are not very convincing, since it was overly simplistic in > terms of explanation. Maybe it is true, but the science needs to be > explained to have more credibility. > > > > >>I agree, but I've taken it and felt it so I am a believer that it does it, > I'll worry about how later > > Mandi x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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