Re: NCD alluminium

[Guest guest]

To be able to chelate anything

the stuff have to get into your body,

NCD is water insoluble

is not getting in to your body, and not chelating anything.

Any effect from NCD is in gut / stool...

and is not on metals..

>>You can't prove that Geir, too many kids getting MUCH MUCH better on this stuff, including mine, whose gut/stool has been soreted for a while

Since when did water soluable mean its not getting into your body?

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Has anyone any info on alluminium and NCD. There seems to be somesuggestion that NCD contains al

>>It does contain Aluminium in very small quanities as part of its structure, I do not believe it can deposit that Al.

TTFD can mobilise stuff (as opposed to excrete it IMHO)

Given his history, my experience and reading of others experiences, I would forget the chemical chelators for now and stick with Zeolites, preferably in divided doses throughout the day - I put it in Sams school juice - I litre. Get his gut in better shape and then depending on his genetics, go in with DMSA later.

I think the reason he tolerated TD DMPS was because it wasn't doing much

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

If not water soluble, is it fat soluble?

>>Its water soluable, it gets in just like an ioinc mineral does.

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

but not as good as thepast six months. although he's such a potty mouth! He told his newhome teacher to f*** off! We swear all the time but he's never heardthat particular expression at home!!! She is a good sort - shepraised his ability to put the two words together!

>>Oh he is priceless - I'd take any two words, one even! The SLT that does some respite for me came today having not seen Sam since Xmas and was amazed at the positive difference in his vocalisations - we have been on holding pattern since before Xmas, minimal supps and plenty Zeolites.

It all went terribly wrong after his supp holiday during residential respite for the conference, we have been two weeks trying to sort the bugs and put the HHC multi back in (gave up in Nov), I had a 'sod it' attitude this morning and gave him more - best day he's had in two weeks and right in time for Nicky!

Now he NEVER touches flavoured crisps (not a bad thing) but tried 3 different ones this afternoon, spooky. Been doing well on the brushing as well, up to 12 stokes per session now.

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

To be able to chelate anything

the stuff have to get into your body,

NCD is water insoluble

is not getting in to your body, and not chelating anything.

Any effect from NCD is in gut / stool...

and is not on metals..

Geir Flatabø

2007/2/24, stephaniesirr :

HelloHas anyone any info on alluminium and NCD. There seems to be somesuggestion that NCD contains al. Tom's al levels went from 14 to 23

in his hair test (and his antimony level from .39 to 2.1) after sixmonths of NCD. Which I want to take a sign that it's helping himexcrete them. I don't want to take it that it's just gone in and out

again in his hair. During the same period he excreted high levels ofBoron (from his bones!!) - from 4.1 to 23 (against a reference of3.5). So that suggests that something is chelating him, and NCD plus abit of authia was what we were using. Authia chelates tin does it? and

his tin excretion dropped dramatically during the same period of time.Any thoughts? Dr Usman wants us to continue with NCD, Boyd Haleydoens't see how it can work, during this six month period " something "

seems to have shifted something considerably out of Tom. AlthoughLead in hair has stayed resolutely at 4.6 or 4.7. And it's lead thatwe thought was the chief offender, according to Tom's poryphirin test.

So NCD doens't chelate lead??Aaargh. Brain is now actually meltingSteph x

[Guest guest]

Well

I`m not proving anything,

only citing Boyd Haley,

and I don`t say NCD is doing nothing,

there are lots of good stuff not absorbed into body / blood stream like

charcoal, and different medical clays, and fiber stuff,

- but the job is done in the gut,

doing something to microflora, immunology, and absorption.

Geir Flatabø

2007/2/24, Mum231ASD@... :

To be able to chelate anything

the stuff have to get into your body,

NCD is water insoluble

is not getting in to your body, and not chelating anything.

Any effect from NCD is in gut / stool...

and is not on metals..

>>You can't prove that Geir, too many kids getting MUCH MUCH better on this stuff, including mine, whose gut/stool has been soreted for a while

Since when did water soluable mean its not getting into your body?

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

If not water soluble, is it fat soluble?

Sally

Mum231ASD@... wrote:

In a message dated 24/02/2007 17:56:12 GMT Standard Time,

geirfulvik (DOT) org writes:

To be able to chelate anything

the stuff have to get into your body,

NCD is water insoluble

is not getting in to your body, and not chelating anything.

Any effect from NCD is in gut / stool...

and is not on metals..

>>You can't prove that Geir, too many kids

getting MUCH MUCH better on this stuff, including mine, whose gut/stool

has been soreted for a while

Since when did water soluable mean its not getting

into your body?

Mandi x

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/699 - Release Date: 23/02/2007 13:26

[Guest guest]

Yes, that may well be true. Although he did excrete a lot of metals

in urine and stool during those first few months... But went ape when

we switched to 8 hourly, which did give us pause for thought.

He had TD DMPS at the same time, or within spitting distance, of

normalising mineral levels, adding glutathione and all sorts of other

stuff. Perhaps we just improved his detoxification system and he was

dumping it anyway.

The only real " reaction " as opposed to improvement we saw during the

first few months was a few days of pale pink rash. I know TD DMPS has

worked really well for Tina with but he had a strong reaction to

it and had to work up so slowly and painstakingly. Whereas Tom

tolerated it extremely well - perhaps too well. We did get some

really nice improvements the first few months but not as good as the

past six months. although he's such a potty mouth! He told his new

home teacher to f*** off! We swear all the time but he's never heard

that particular expression at home!!! She is a good sort - she

praised his ability to put the two words together!

>

>

> In a message dated 24/02/2007 16:44:29 GMT Standard Time,

> mark.grabiec@... writes:

>

> Has anyone any info on alluminium and NCD. There seems to be some

> suggestion that NCD contains al

>

>

> >>It does contain Aluminium in very small quanities as part of its

> structure, I do not believe it can deposit that Al.

>

> TTFD can mobilise stuff (as opposed to excrete it IMHO)

>

> Given his history, my experience and reading of others experiences,

I would

> forget the chemical chelators for now and stick with Zeolites,

preferably in

> divided doses throughout the day - I put it in Sams school juice - I

litre.

> Get his gut in better shape and then depending on his genetics, go

in with

> DMSA later.

>

> I think the reason he tolerated TD DMPS was because it wasn't doing

much

>

> Mandi x

>

[Guest guest]

When Tom was entirely quiet - not even babble or humming, one thing

that encouraged him make any sound was one of those irritating loud

hailers with the many and various silly voice types on them. LIke a

cheap vocoder. I still hear him now singing " round and round the

garden " in the voice of the Mysterons. he seemed to feel more

confident with something that would make a loud sound no matter what,

or how softly he vocalised. But his language really came when he

forgot he couldn't speak, if that makes sense. Like something he

hadn't tried for a long time because it didn't work and then suddenly

it did. I'm sure Sam will be swearing at you soon!

HOw do you know if your child will respond to brushing? Tom's very

ticklish - I can imagine him howling with laughter...

We still see his cranial osteopath and Tom is just blissed out for an

hour or so afterward. Fancy some of that myself.

>

>

> In a message dated 24/02/2007 20:13:16 GMT Standard Time,

> mark.grabiec@... writes:

>

> but not as good as the

> past six months. although he's such a potty mouth! He told his new

> home teacher to f*** off! We swear all the time but he's never heard

> that particular expression at home!!! She is a good sort - she

> praised his ability to put the two words together!

>

>

>

> >>Oh he is priceless - I'd take any two words, one even! The SLT

that does

> some respite for me came today having not seen Sam since Xmas and

was amazed

> at the positive difference in his vocalisations - we have been on

holding

> pattern since before Xmas, minimal supps and plenty Zeolites.

>

> It all went terribly wrong after his supp holiday during residential

respite

> for the conference, we have been two weeks trying to sort the bugs

and put

> the HHC multi back in (gave up in Nov), I had a 'sod it' attitude

this morning

> and gave him more - best day he's had in two weeks and right in time

for

> Nicky!

>

> Now he NEVER touches flavoured crisps (not a bad thing) but tried 3

> different ones this afternoon, spooky. Been doing well on the

brushing as well, up to

> 12 stokes per session now.

>

> Mandi x

>

[Guest guest]

> although he's such a potty mouth!

Kieran is now talking quite a lot, but huge amounts of scripting and

echolalia, just increased to 15 drops 2 or 3 times a day, and we

have had two biggies

First of all he desperately tried to join in on a conversation his

Dad was having with Grandma, but Grandma is not one to be

interrupted, so I gave him the opportunity, and he told me about

playing at toy shop in the home corner at school. Kieran NEVER tells

me anything about school, or anything about real life, just what he

has seen on television or in a book. He even described which side of

the room the home corner was on. He faced me and held his right hand

up and said it is at the back on the left. When I pointed out that

he was holding up his right hand, he said " Yes, but if I am looking

at it the other way, it is on the other side. " I nearly choked

The second biggy came this evening. A little girl he knows at school

is called Joanie, and for the first time he said her surname, Joanie

Peacock, he then went on to say Joanie Seacock, and burst into fits

of laughter. I did not know whether to laugh or look shocked, I was

bursting inside. We use the word willy, and never use the word

cock. Not sure if he made this up himself, or one of the other boys

invented the name, but is certainly amused Kieran no end. I am

intrigued to know whether he has the nounce to understand that this

is not a joke to be said in front of the teacher, I suspect not.

I am not worried about the aluminium, my understanding is that it

remains within the structure, which is tremendously strong and not

likely to break down to release it. If someone shows the whole

zeolite/Waoria thing to be a sham, then I will have egg all over my

face, because we seem to be getting sudden improvements. At least I

will be happy with egg all over my face.

Sue

[Guest guest]

Here are a couple of audios by Rik Deitsch that explains about how the NCD works as a chelator, about the aluminum etc:

http://www.ishayatechniques.com/Audio%20Waiora/02%20Invisible%20Killers%202.wma

http://www.ishayatechniques.com/Audio%20Waiora/03%20Invisible%20Killers%203.wma

Hope this helps,

Bhushana

NCD alluminium

HelloHas anyone any info on alluminium and NCD. There seems to be somesuggestion that NCD contains al. Tom's al levels went from 14 to 23in his hair test (and his antimony level from .39 to 2.1) after sixmonths of NCD. Which I want to take a sign that it's helping himexcrete them. I don't want to take it that it's just gone in and outagain in his hair. During the same period he excreted high levels ofBoron (from his bones!!) - from 4.1 to 23 (against a reference of3.5). So that suggests that something is chelating him, and NCD plus abit of authia was what we were using. Authia chelates tin does it? andhis tin excretion dropped dramatically during the same period of time. Any thoughts? Dr Usman wants us to continue with NCD, Boyd Haleydoens't see how it can work, during this six month period "something"seems to have shifted something considerably out of Tom. AlthoughLead in hair has stayed resolutely at 4.6 or 4.7. And it's lead thatwe thought was the chief offender, according to Tom's poryphirin test.So NCD doens't chelate lead??Aaargh. Brain is now actually meltingSteph x

[Guest guest]

Geir, are children apparently receiving some other benefit from NCD other than

Chelation and that this benefit can only be sustains by continued intake of it

without proper understanding of its effect longterm? Please explain your

conclusion as the manufacturer is carrying out research with the intention of

keeping confidence in the product before it falls or customer runs out of money.

Bridget

>

>

> Date: 2007/02/24 Sat PM 05:52:27 GMT

> Autism Treatment

> Subject: Re: NCD alluminium

>

> To be able to chelate anything

> the stuff have to get into your body,

> NCD is water insoluble

> is not getting in to your body, and not chelating anything.

> Any effect from NCD is in gut / stool...

> and is not on metals..

>

> Geir Flatabø

>

>

> 2007/2/24, stephaniesirr :

> >

> > Hello

> >

> > Has anyone any info on alluminium and NCD. There seems to be some

> > suggestion that NCD contains al. Tom's al levels went from 14 to 23

> > in his hair test (and his antimony level from .39 to 2.1) after six

> > months of NCD. Which I want to take a sign that it's helping him

> > excrete them. I don't want to take it that it's just gone in and out

> > again in his hair. During the same period he excreted high levels of

> > Boron (from his bones!!) - from 4.1 to 23 (against a reference of

> > 3.5). So that suggests that something is chelating him, and NCD plus a

> > bit of authia was what we were using. Authia chelates tin does it? and

> > his tin excretion dropped dramatically during the same period of time.

> >

> > Any thoughts? Dr Usman wants us to continue with NCD, Boyd Haley

> > doens't see how it can work, during this six month period " something "

> > seems to have shifted something considerably out of Tom. Although

> > Lead in hair has stayed resolutely at 4.6 or 4.7. And it's lead that

> > we thought was the chief offender, according to Tom's poryphirin test.

> > So NCD doens't chelate lead??

> >

> > Aaargh. Brain is now actually melting

> > Steph x

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > DISCLAIMER

> > No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical

> > advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified

> > practitioner.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

That's terrific! And yes, happy and eggy is fine. We might be years

off proving anything about anything at this rate. You can probably

only go on the evidence in front of your eyes.

Steph x

> > although he's such a potty mouth!

>

> Kieran is now talking quite a lot, but huge amounts of scripting and

> echolalia, just increased to 15 drops 2 or 3 times a day, and we

> have had two biggies

> First of all he desperately tried to join in on a conversation his

> Dad was having with Grandma, but Grandma is not one to be

> interrupted, so I gave him the opportunity, and he told me about

> playing at toy shop in the home corner at school. Kieran NEVER tells

> me anything about school, or anything about real life, just what he

> has seen on television or in a book. He even described which side of

> the room the home corner was on. He faced me and held his right hand

> up and said it is at the back on the left. When I pointed out that

> he was holding up his right hand, he said " Yes, but if I am looking

> at it the other way, it is on the other side. " I nearly choked

>

> The second biggy came this evening. A little girl he knows at school

> is called Joanie, and for the first time he said her surname, Joanie

> Peacock, he then went on to say Joanie Seacock, and burst into fits

> of laughter. I did not know whether to laugh or look shocked, I was

> bursting inside. We use the word willy, and never use the word

> cock. Not sure if he made this up himself, or one of the other boys

> invented the name, but is certainly amused Kieran no end. I am

> intrigued to know whether he has the nounce to understand that this

> is not a joke to be said in front of the teacher, I suspect not.

>

> I am not worried about the aluminium, my understanding is that it

> remains within the structure, which is tremendously strong and not

> likely to break down to release it. If someone shows the whole

> zeolite/Waoria thing to be a sham, then I will have egg all over my

> face, because we seem to be getting sudden improvements. At least I

> will be happy with egg all over my face.

>

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

I also think his claims that the Zeolite product is an immune system modulator are not very convincing, since it was overly simplistic in terms of explanation. Maybe it is true, but the science needs to be explained to have more credibility.

>>I agree, but I've taken it and felt it so I am a believer that it does it, I'll worry about how later

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

It's not fat soluble (scientifically, it's a polar charged oxide and this will not mix with non-polar fats).It should not be water soluble either as zeolite's are very stable solids that don't break down into component ions in water. I'm guessing it must be dispersed in water as small particles in order to get it into people.

>>I am braindead - I knew when I said water soluable I didn;t quite mean that but I am so shot away today I can;t remember what I do mean

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Thank you for posting the links.

Having listened carefully to these two audio tapes, I still have

questions.

As regards metals/toxin removal, if the claims are correct it seems

that the Zeolite product works with circulating / free toxins including

metals. Deitsch appears to suggest that metals in cells, organs

including brain, will somehow come out ON IT'S OWN where it can then be

picked up by the Zeolite. He certainly does not explain how the

product can chelate from a cell, and implies it cannot. So you would

still need a *chelator* to chelate metals from cells including neuronal

mercury. This suggests to me that th e product would be beneficial if

used in conjunction with DMSA and ALA. Interestingly he does not seem

to have progressed beyond EDTA in terms of chelation!!!

I also think his claims that the Zeolite product is an immune system

modulator are not very convincing, since it was overly simplistic in

terms of explanation. Maybe it is true, but the science needs to be

explained to have more credibility.

>

> Here are a couple of audios by Rik Deitsch that explains about how

the NCD works as a chelator, about the aluminum etc:

> http://www.ishayatechniques.com/Audio%20Waiora/02%20Invisible%

20Killers%202.wma

>

> http://www.ishayatechniques.com/Audio%20Waiora/03%20Invisible%

20Killers%203.wma

>

> Hope this helps,

> Bhushana

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

[Guest guest]

It's not fat soluble (scientifically, it's a polar charged oxide and

this will not mix with non-polar fats).

It should not be water soluble either as zeolite's are very stable

solids that don't break down into component ions in water. I'm

guessing it must be dispersed in water as small particles in order to

get it into people.

[Guest guest]

Mandi

What do you mean by " it " ??

Felt what exactly? Can you quantify " it " ? Is " it " related to immune

system function - or detox of something? Details please.

Celia x :-)

>

>

> In a message dated 25/02/2007 14:02:57 GMT Standard Time,

> C.Forrest@... writes:

>

> I also think his claims that the Zeolite product is an immune system

> modulator are not very convincing, since it was overly simplistic in

> terms of explanation. Maybe it is true, but the science needs to be

> explained to have more credibility.

>

>

>

> >>I agree, but I've taken it and felt it so I am a believer that it

does it,

> I'll worry about how later

>

> Mandi x

>

[Guest guest]

Can you please expand on this theme? Explain the relevance in terms of

chelation? And other claims.

>

> It's not fat soluble (scientifically, it's a polar charged oxide and

> this will not mix with non-polar fats).

> It should not be water soluble either as zeolite's are very stable

> solids that don't break down into component ions in water. I'm

> guessing it must be dispersed in water as small particles in order to

> get it into people.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes it is a colloidal suspension...

Re: NCD alluminium

It's not fat soluble (scientifically, it's a polar charged oxide and this will not mix with non-polar fats).It should not be water soluble either as zeolite's are very stable solids that don't break down into component ions in water. I'm guessing it must be dispersed in water as small particles in order to get it into people.

[Guest guest]

Boyd hayley did say that until he spoke to Rik Deitsch and got more information. We get a 60 / 40 split on the product and it certainly does move through the entire body.

He should join Dr Mark our DDS on the Wednesday night call sometime. DR Mark Berkowitz who is a member of the same dental association as Boyd. Also He could certainly read the patent and the white paper http://www.ishayatechniques.com/Audio%20Waiora/Zeolite-WhitePaperPatent.pdf and discover we are not talking about powdered zeolite. If we were his statements would be true. Here is the number for the call on Wednesday nights at 9 pm pin 678654#

Re: NCD alluminium

Well

I`m not proving anything,

only citing Boyd Haley,

and I don`t say NCD is doing nothing,

there are lots of good stuff not absorbed into body / blood stream like

charcoal, and different medical clays, and fiber stuff,

- but the job is done in the gut,

doing something to microflora, immunology, and absorption.

Geir Flatabø

2007/2/24, Mum231ASDaol <Mum231ASDaol>:

In a message dated 24/02/2007 17:56:12 GMT Standard Time, geirfulvik (DOT) org writes:

To be able to chelate anything

the stuff have to get into your body,

NCD is water insoluble

is not getting in to your body, and not chelating anything.

Any effect from NCD is in gut / stool...

and is not on metals..

>>You can't prove that Geir, too many kids getting MUCH MUCH better on this stuff, including mine, whose gut/stool has been soreted for a while

Since when did water soluable mean its not getting into your body?

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

The Natural Cellular defense is not in a powdered form. It is activated liquid zeolite that is suspended in a colloidal solution. That is where the patent comes in. http://www.ishayatechniques.com/Audio%20Waiora/Zeolite-WhitePaperPatent.pdf

Re: Re: NCD alluminium

In a message dated 25/02/2007 15:09:33 GMT Standard Time, oneill_liam (DOT) co.uk writes:

It's not fat soluble (scientifically, it's a polar charged oxide and this will not mix with non-polar fats).It should not be water soluble either as zeolite's are very stable solids that don't break down into component ions in water. I'm guessing it must be dispersed in water as small particles in order to get it into people.

>>I am braindead - I knew when I said water soluable I didn;t quite mean that but I am so shot away today I can;t remember what I do mean

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

So, what does it do if it's confined to the gut? Can it chelate? The use of zeolites to trap heavy metals is well characterised in the scientific literature. There are hundreds of papers decribing this. TO trap metals, the zeolite has to come into contact with the metal directly. It can't do this without getting into the body. So, NCD should not chelate directly from our kids. (Mandi is goign to kill

>>Nah I no kill you Liam I don't particularly care whats its doing, or how it does it - it is doing good things and thats enough for me

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Except maybe something else could be doing the good things?

>>We been at this game 7 years Sally, you just have to trust me, I know the Zeolites are doing something good

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Celia,

I don't know much about NCD as a product, but here's my thoughts:

It's dispersed as solid particles in water. I don't see how the

particles can cross into the body through the intestinal wall.

The only way that ionic solids can traverse the intestinge is to

break down into component ions and move acrss as indidiual charged

ions. If this is what NCD does, then that means we're pouring

aluminium ions into our kids. If this is the case, then the NCD

product has fallen apart and is no longer a zeolite. It would

increae Al ion concentratoins wihtout adding benefit. I don't think

this is the case, as parents see benefits rather than problems with

NCD treatment.

So, what does it do if it's confined to the gut? Can it chelate? The

use of zeolites to trap heavy metals is well characterised in the

scientific literature. There are hundreds of papers decribing this.

TO trap metals, the zeolite has to come into contact with the metal

directly. It can't do this without getting into the body. So, NCD

should not chelate directly from our kids. (Mandi is goign to kill

me for this bit!)

NCD also claim some immune enhancement properties, but I dont know

how effective zeolites are in this regard. My guess is that the NCD

must be working to clean up the gut's own immune system and to aid

detox by trapping any heavy metals that are present in the

intestines. So, can it chelate mercury from the brain? I doubt it.

What it might do is help the body to get it's immune system sorted

and this may help the body to detox naturally. But I've yet to see

any evidence of NCD actually chelating our kids. I haven't seen one

urinary metal analysis or equivalent ot show that it can chelate

metals from a human body.

Gut problems tend to be at the core of much of our kid's issues. So

it makes sense that the NCD can help out without getting into the

body. There's a lot more to helping ASD kids that just chelation.

That's my guess, but I'm open to correction. Specifically, if

someone can sugest how an intact zeolite can cross the intestinal

wall and get out through the kidney or through the stool, then let

me know. If this can be shown, then there is no reason why NCD would

not be a very effective chelator.

Liam

> >

> > It's not fat soluble (scientifically, it's a polar charged oxide

and

> > this will not mix with non-polar fats).

> > It should not be water soluble either as zeolite's are very

stable

> > solids that don't break down into component ions in water. I'm

> > guessing it must be dispersed in water as small particles in

order to

> > get it into people.

> >

>