more questions

[Guest guest]

LOL Oh dear Daryl, what a confession, two more CHOCOHOLICS for the group !!!

<big grin>

Guess what, we've got lots of them (me included) and a cookie police who will

'getcha' if you're not careful!!

Seriously though the diet does look daunting but one can just ease slowly into

it and all of a sudden you'll eat something sweet and think YUK!!

Well......maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but it gets better as you go

along, I promise. It's just a matter of getting your taste buds to change and

they do <smile>

I have had quite a spectacular success with the diet so I'm a fan for eating

'right' which lets face it we all know is the correct thing to do. I get side

effects as one does from a drug when I eat something I shouldn't and boy does

that give me the incentive to be good. Being good does not come naturally to me

!!grin>

All this stuff is a bit overwhelming to start with I know and we don't want

to feel stressed over anything either <caring hng> Right now you're

focusing in the right direction with getting a good doctor sorted out, time

enough to look at other things later.. Here's the one Nashville in for you to

put on file just in case :-)

E. , M.D.

PO Box 110519,

Nashville TN 37222-0519.

615-781-2170.

And I DO eat chocolate still (just once in a while) even though I'm pretty

strict with my diet, I can only be 'good' for so long before it gets to me and I

break out <grin>

hugs,

lisbeth

PS has made great progress with her drug reduction, do tell her " well

done' from me.<warm smile) I'll leave the questions for those more qualified

than I to answer.

From: Daryl <dflewis@...>

arthritis group <rheumaticonelist>

Date: Monday, 1 March 1999 16:40

Subject: rheumatic More Questions

Thanks to all of you so much for your responses! I have been so busy trying to

read all the email that I have been unable to get in my head what I need to ask

about. My wife's name is but right now she's a little computer shy and

also the " diet " talk has scared her as she (and I) has a chocolate sweet tooth I

believe. We both tried the Protein Power diet (low carb diet) over the past

summer and both lost some weight and felt better but have relented quite a bit

lately.

Someone mentioned a doctor in Nashville, TN as a possibility. That wouldn't

be too bad (about 3.5 hours away). We want to check with our local doctor first

to see if he would be willing to prescribe the antibotics for us and monitor

progress. I doubt if her " rheumy " will approve of the AP either or he wouldn't

have her on Plaquenil now but I thought we should give him a try first. Current

medication is Naproxen 500mg twice a day, Predisone 2 mg once a day, and

Plaquenil 200 mg twice a day (prescribed but she has cut back to 100 mg every

other day). Two questions: 1. Should she get off the Plaquenil immediately in

anticipation of starting the AP or taper off gradually? 2. Several of you

mentioned the Protocol - Is this Dr. 's or does the doctor(s) the

group has access to developed one which someone could send us? Again thanks for

the encouragement and may God Bless You.

[Guest guest]

Daryl, you will find two protocols on http://www.rheumatic.org

Dr. ph Mercola's (Schaumburg, IL) written more for the physician,

and

Dr. 's (Plano, TX) written as a handout for her patients.

The Frequently Asked Questions section also gives the protocol.

While Dr. Brown always took any patient on DMARDS off the drug and

waited six weeks before starting antibiotic therapy, there are

physicians who don't take the patient off the DMARD until the antibiotic

'kicks in.'

Ethel

> Daryl wrote:

>

> Thanks to all of you so much for your responses! I have been so

> busy trying to read all the email that I have been unable to get in my

> head what I need to ask about. My wife's name is but right now

> she's a little computer shy and also the " diet " talk has scared her as

> she (and I) has a chocolate sweet tooth I believe. We both tried the

> Protein Power diet (low carb diet) over the past summer and both lost

> some weight and felt better but have relented quite a bit lately.

> Someone mentioned a doctor in Nashville, TN as a possibility. That

> wouldn't be too bad (about 3.5 hours away). We want to check with our

> local doctor first to see if he would be willing to prescribe the

> antibotics for us and monitor progress. I doubt if her " rheumy " will

> approve of the AP either or he wouldn't have her on Plaquenil now but

> I thought we should give him a try first. Current medication is

> Naproxen 500mg twice a day, Predisone 2 mg once a day, and Plaquenil

> 200 mg twice a day (prescribed but she has cut back to 100 mg every

> other day). Two questions: 1. Should she get off the Plaquenil

> immediately in anticipation of starting the AP or taper off

> gradually? 2. Several of you mentioned the Protocol - Is this Dr.

> 's or does the doctor(s) the group has access to developed

> one which someone could send us? Again thanks for the encouragement

> and may God Bless You.

[Guest guest]

Daryl,

My Rheum also put me on Plaquenil immediately after I was diagnosed and

mentioned nothing about AP. I found out about AP one month after starting

the Plaquenil, went back to my Rheum and insisted on a prescription. He

wasn't supportive of the AP working but he gave me a prescription. I get

the rest of my information for this group and a local support group. I'm

still taking the Plaquenil as it was recommended I not jump off it too

quickly as the anti-inflamatory aspects of the Plaquenil may help the AP to

work. I was told that Ethel was the best authority on when to get off the

Plaquenil so I'm planning to pester her soon to get her opinion. I would

strongly urge you and your wife to go back to her doctor to see if he'll

give the AP a try. I printed off alot of the info from the website,

including the protocol, and took it to my doctor when I made my request.

He had a hard time refuting all the research so maybe this would help to

convince your Rheum to give it a try.

Good luck,

a

rheumatic More Questions

Thanks to all of you so much for your responses! I have been so busy

trying to read all the email that I have been unable to get in my head what

I need to ask about. My wife's name is but right now she's a little

computer shy and also the " diet " talk has scared her as she (and I) has a

chocolate sweet tooth I believe. We both tried the Protein Power diet (low

carb diet) over the past summer and both lost some weight and felt better

but have relented quite a bit lately.

Someone mentioned a doctor in Nashville, TN as a possibility. That

wouldn't be too bad (about 3.5 hours away). We want to check with our local

doctor first to see if he would be willing to prescribe the antibotics for

us and monitor progress. I doubt if her " rheumy " will approve of the AP

either or he wouldn't have her on Plaquenil now but I thought we should

give him a try first. Current medication is Naproxen 500mg twice a day,

Predisone 2 mg once a day, and Plaquenil 200 mg twice a day (prescribed

but she has cut back to 100 mg every other day). Two questions: 1. Should

she get off the Plaquenil immediately in anticipation of starting the AP or

taper off gradually? 2. Several of you mentioned the Protocol - Is this

Dr. 's or does the doctor(s) the group has access to developed

one which someone could send us? Again thanks for the encouragement and

may God Bless You.

<< File: ATT00034.htm >>

[Guest guest]

a my gp told me to stop taking the Plaquinel and I just quit cold turkey

and didn't have any side effects. This was at the same time I started the

AP. I hated the idea of having to have my eyes checked every 6 months.

And with the Metho I had to get my blood checked for liver damage every

month. No more eye exams and blood tests now. And I feel better mentally

knowing I'm not taking these meds.

Take care

Bev

rheumatic More Questions

>

> Thanks to all of you so much for your responses! I have been so busy

>trying to read all the email that I have been unable to get in my head what

>I need to ask about. My wife's name is but right now she's a little

>computer shy and also the " diet " talk has scared her as she (and I) has a

>chocolate sweet tooth I believe. We both tried the Protein Power diet (low

>carb diet) over the past summer and both lost some weight and felt better

>but have relented quite a bit lately.

> Someone mentioned a doctor in Nashville, TN as a possibility. That

>wouldn't be too bad (about 3.5 hours away). We want to check with our local

>doctor first to see if he would be willing to prescribe the antibotics for

>us and monitor progress. I doubt if her " rheumy " will approve of the AP

>either or he wouldn't have her on Plaquenil now but I thought we should

>give him a try first. Current medication is Naproxen 500mg twice a day,

>Predisone 2 mg once a day, and Plaquenil 200 mg twice a day (prescribed

>but she has cut back to 100 mg every other day). Two questions: 1. Should

>she get off the Plaquenil immediately in anticipation of starting the AP or

>taper off gradually? 2. Several of you mentioned the Protocol - Is this

>Dr. 's or does the doctor(s) the group has access to developed

>one which someone could send us? Again thanks for the encouragement and

>may God Bless You.

> << File: ATT00034.htm >>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Ta Da! Come see our new web site!

>

>Onelist: A free email community service

>

[Guest guest]

Bev,

Good for you for getting off all that junk. I'm still taking the Plaquenil

because I had a few people tell me to be careful about going off it too

fast as it could trigger a regression. If I didn't have to work, I'd be

more brave about just getting off it and waiting out the flare but I have

to be somewhat functional so I'm playing it more cautiously. I'm also

having trouble getting my doctor to run any tests so I don't have any

numbers yet on which to base a decision. I gather it's wise to have normal

test results for about 6 months before going off the Plaquenil but I need

to get some tests first to find out where I stand. I plan to hit him up

again at my next appointment, failing which I might go back to my gp to get

some run. In the meantime, I'm still taking it and worrying about it.

Decisions, decisions.

Hugs,

a

rheumatic Re: More Questions

From: " Briarwood " <briarwood@...>

a my gp told me to stop taking the Plaquinel and I just quit cold

turkey

and didn't have any side effects. This was at the same time I started the

AP. I hated the idea of having to have my eyes checked every 6 months.

And with the Metho I had to get my blood checked for liver damage every

month. No more eye exams and blood tests now. And I feel better mentally

knowing I'm not taking these meds.

Take care

Bev

[Guest guest]

a I gave up on the tests and just go on what I feel. Our small

community clinic has two gps for 7,000 people and tests aren't high on their

priorities it seems. I will have to see my gp now because it is my third

prescription renewal and he wants to see me before I get another refill of

Minocin. I wonder how long it takes metho to get out of your system. I

started easing off it Dec. 23rd. My gp thought I had quit it but I hadn't

cuz my RD told me not too. Confusing. Mr gp prescribes AP but my rheumy

doesn't. My RD tells me not to go off the Metho but my gp tells me to stop

taking it. My gp told me to just stop taking Plaquinel. I just quit and

had no side effects from stopping. One good thing about stopping the

plaquinel is you don't need to have your eyes checked every 6 months. I

hope you can get off it a. But you have to time it to when you feel

comfortable doing it. :>)

Take care now

Love

Bev

rheumatic Re: More Questions

>

>From: " Briarwood " <briarwood@...>

>

>a my gp told me to stop taking the Plaquinel and I just quit cold

>turkey

>and didn't have any side effects. This was at the same time I started the

>AP. I hated the idea of having to have my eyes checked every 6 months.

>And with the Metho I had to get my blood checked for liver damage every

>month. No more eye exams and blood tests now. And I feel better mentally

>knowing I'm not taking these meds.

>

>Take care

>Bev

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shona,

Dr. G mentioned to me once that 40% of children who cannot tolerate milk

protein also cannot tolerate soy protein. My son also can't tolerate soy

(it's actually worse than milk). There are a lot of us in the same boat!

It sounds like you are on the right track.

Sharon :-)

[Guest guest]

Hey Shona.

My boys cannot tolerate soy at all - worse than milk.

It's subtle - takes a few days to show, but he gets a

crazed look in his eyes, becomes aggressive, and his

anxiety level goes through the roof. And the worst

culprit is anything that contains soy lecithen. It's

wierd, but he doesn't always react to it on the first

time - takes a short time to " build up " .

Getting enough protein has been a struggle here too,

but my best mainstay is meatballs and gravy - I'll

post the recipe for them if you'd like. They're gfcf.

The meatballs are really good, and the gravy is okay,

and my kids love them. They're soft and easy to eat.

If you make a big batch, and make your gravy pretty

thin, then they reheat pretty well too. And

occasionally, when I forget to add onions, and Garrett

won't eat them, then I just run them through the

blender with the gravy (thin it up) and pour it over

the rice, and he'll gobble it up. I haven't tried

that often - just discovered I can do it, but it

hasn't failed yet! It's also a good meal to pack for

preschool lunch - a thermos of rice, gravy and

meatballs keeps well enough - he eats every bit of it.

I don't have any measurements, but basically they're

made from ground chuck, one egg or replacer, instant

mashed potatoes, a little rice flour, maybe some

potato starch flour (not sure if it matters), finely

chopped onion, onion powder, garlic powder (tons), and

a little rice or potato milk, salt and generous

pepper, make little balls, and brown well. For gravy,

remove the meatballs, brown some rice flour in the

fat, add water, salt, pepper, onion powder and garlic

powder to taste (I'm pretty generous), stir till

thickened (adjusting to your preference), add back the

meatballs and cook for a while. Serve with rice or

mashed or baked potatoes, etc. I even put a little

gravy over broccoli, and they eat that too. I used to

put rice or potato milk in the gravy, but I've found

it's probably a little better with just water and

sufficient spicing. When I cook it tonight, I'll try

to get some close measurements and repost it if you'd

like.

Are the chicken strips your daughter likes milk free

or gfcf? I have a decent recipe for those too, except

my son has recently started snubbing them, so maybe

you wouldn't want that one. Does she like chicken

and dumplings? I've made some that were really good,

even though they're gfcf, we adults loved them, but my

little ones only liked them the first time - they

won't eat them anymore.

Good luck! It took me about 3 months to actually get

the hang of the diet. We saw improvements within the

first few days, but as improvements leveled off, we'd

make adjustments. He just kept improving every time I

figured out a trigger. So hang in there - it's often

stressful, but as you focus on goals (like increasing

protein), it just takes time to get to where you need

to be, but you will get there.

Learning too..

--- Shona Jordan <chaia98@...> wrote:

> Hi everyone! This group has been so helpful in the

> past two months

> that I am again seeking your help! We're still

> struggling with diet

> as we await our December 10th visit. I believe that

> my 2 1/2 year

> old son cannot tolerate soy products. He was

> drinking three or four

> cups a day of soy milk and not responding well to

> the diet changes.

> In the past two weeks we've removed the soy and he

> is now making eye

> contact with us several times each day. He's

> manipulating people to

> get what he wants and other interesting behaviors.

> He's still

> nonverbal, but these are definite improvements for

> us. Has anyone

> else out here not been able to tolerate soy

> products? If so, what

> all has soy in it? We're doing the Dr. G's do's and

> don'ts of diet.

> We are completely casein free and have very little

> sugar. I'm also

> still struggling to get my 4 year old daughter to

> eat enough

> protein. She doesn't like anything but chicken

> strips and the

> occasional piece of grilled chicken. Any

> suggestions you have would

> be appreciated.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Shona Jordan

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks . The chicken strips are not GF, but don't contain casein. She

loves them. I'd love to have the exact recipe for the meatballs. Anything new

would be a blessing! Her improvements have leveled off in the past week, but

she's been eating several grilled cheese sandwiches also. I just discovered

that the lactose free cheese has casein in it. any ideas for a replacement?

Shona

>

> Wrom: FMYXOEAIJJPHSCRTNHGSWZIDREXCAXZOWCONEUQZ

> Date: 2002/11/11 Mon AM 11:11:04 EST

>

> Subject: Re: more questions

>

>

[Guest guest]

Try goat's milk. I like it because it has alot of protein and is low in

sugar.

Suzanne

From: " Shona Jordan " <chaia98@...>

Reply-

Subject: more questions

Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:22:49 -0000

Hi everyone! This group has been so helpful in the past two months

that I am again seeking your help! We're still struggling with diet

as we await our December 10th visit. I believe that my 2 1/2 year

old son cannot tolerate soy products. He was drinking three or four

cups a day of soy milk and not responding well to the diet changes.

In the past two weeks we've removed the soy and he is now making eye

contact with us several times each day. He's manipulating people to

get what he wants and other interesting behaviors. He's still

nonverbal, but these are definite improvements for us. Has anyone

else out here not been able to tolerate soy products? If so, what

all has soy in it? We're doing the Dr. G's do's and don'ts of diet.

We are completely casein free and have very little sugar. I'm also

still struggling to get my 4 year old daughter to eat enough

protein. She doesn't like anything but chicken strips and the

occasional piece of grilled chicken. Any suggestions you have would

be appreciated.

Thanks!

Shona Jordan

_________________________________________________________________

Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

[Guest guest]

We have not gone gluten free, although we have cut way back on wheat and are

avoiding whole grains. The dairy-free cheese I bought to make grill cheese on

dairy-free, egg-free, refined flour bread with GFCF butter was not well received

-- ended up on the floor -- but I have had great success with kosher foods

because you are guaranteed that there is absolutely no dairy in the food or

anywhere in the plant where the food is made (i.e. no cross-contamination).

Loblaws (in Canada) has a kosher butcher and kosher section in a few of its

stores. I have had great success with kosher hotdogs, chicken dogs and chicken

balls in sauce. There are a lot of other products (fresh, frozen, pre-made,

boxed) but I have just started out so haven't had a chance to check out a lot.

The only thing he wouldn't eat was the pre-made chicken liver and onions (I was

hoping he would go for it to help with the iron). The butcher gave me a tour of

the whole kosher section and was extremely helpful. I don't know if they have

anything like this in any of the big supermarkets in the U.S. but I would think

there would be somewhere to buy kosher products in most small- to medium-sized

cities.

Hope this helps.

Rhoda

Re: more questions

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi all-sorry about the itchy trigger finger...this time I'll include my

question!

I want to write a lovely thank you to all who responded to my newbie

questions. You are a wonderful bunch of people.

Do any of you know if tendonitis commonly accompanies RA? I now have the joy

of bilateral rotator cuff tendonitis in addition to my RA symptoms. I have

had some rotator cuff probs in the past when I was an emergency vet tech-too

much big dog wrestling!! But never this bad and in both shoulders at the

same time...so I was wondering if it could be brought on by the RA.

Thanks again! cary the il rn!

[Guest guest]

Cary, shoulder problems are very common in RA.

I don't have a solid RA diagnosis, but I have had a bad time with my

shoulders. My right one is the worst, but I have babied it over the last

couple of years and it is much better.

At first, my rheumatologist said it was tendinitis (although I told him

that I actually heard of series of pops before the severe pain). Later,

I had PT that did not help at all and finally an MRI that showed a torn

rotator cuff. It was difficult to sleep, but an injection of cortisone

helped for a couple of months.

Rockford Orthopedic Associates on shoulder arthritis:

http://www.rockfordortho.com/anatomy/shoulder/shoulder_arthritis.htm

On shoulder surgery (and shoulder problems) from the American Academy of

Orthopaedic Surgeons:

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/booklet/thr_report.cfm?Thread_ID=11 & topcategory=Should\

er

" Shoulder Pain " from FamilyPracticeNotebook.com:

http://www.fpnotebook.com/ORT344.htm

" Rheumatoid Arthritis of the Shoulder " from GPnotebook.com

http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/449839132.htm

Hope you get some answers and relief soon!

Re: [ ] More questions

> Hi all-sorry about the itchy trigger finger...this time I'll include

my

> question!

>

> I want to write a lovely thank you to all who responded to my newbie

> questions. You are a wonderful bunch of people.

>

> Do any of you know if tendonitis commonly accompanies RA? I now have

the joy

> of bilateral rotator cuff tendonitis in addition to my RA symptoms. I

have

> had some rotator cuff probs in the past when I was an emergency vet

tech-too

> much big dog wrestling!! But never this bad and in both shoulders at

the

> same time...so I was wondering if it could be brought on by the RA.

>

> Thanks again! cary the il rn!

[Guest guest]

The irritability is often associated with fungal stuff but can also often be

due to reactions to various foods and other things in the environment the body

can't handle.

Taking milk out of my son's diet was much more dramatic than gluten but

gluten removal also helped. It was much more subtle but then more obvious when

we

tried to add it back after he was off of it for several months. We had done

several week rounds off it about five times and had kind of noticed subtle

improvement but not dramatic. When we finally took it out for about five months

and then retried it, he had abdominal discomfort, diahhria and went a bit

looney.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for the responses, I have lots more questions! thank you

everyone.

Maybe sheetrock is the wrong word for what the walls are made out of. It's more

like a solid cement wall with no hollow space. I'll ask my husband what it's

called, maybe he will know.

I really appreciate what you are saying but I don't think we will be able to

leave right away unfortunately because we just renewed a two-year lease two

months ago and we have no cash on hand for a deposit somewhere else. Plus I

don't want to just up and leave without knowing what is going on -- what if it

is my cat that is causing the problems or the ammonia from his urine or

something else like a product we are using or something that we own that we

would take with us? We might be able to move into another apartment in another

area of our complex -- I just don't know if that will help or not.

In terms of an air conditioner, how would I find if there is mold in my air

conditioner and what do I do if there is? Do I throw it out and buy another

one? Can it be serviced?

I will look into the Texas Tech tests, thank you for that referral. I looked

on their web site and it is a bit confusing to a newbie. I don't know what

mycotoxin testing is. Is that a blood test? Can my doctor order that test as

well? I have a pretty progressive doctor who is an integrative medicine

specialist. Is the spore trap or the tape test better? I am not clear if it is

$25.00 per tape lift or how you do it. I don't even know where I would take

samples since we can't really see anything to take samples of.

I am taking ALA and N-acetylcystine. They are part of the UltraInflamX

formulation. That is an amazing powder that I have found so helpful in the past

and it will probably help with this current situation as well, but now that it

seems to me there is something here bothering me I want to eliminate that rather

than just treating the symptoms. How can I tell whether it is an indoor or

outdoor allergen?

Sorry for so many questions. Thanks for everything

Lori

[Guest guest]

I can't recall the details of your apartment. I guess you can't see

any mold. Do you feel better when you leave your apartment? That

was my first indication of something in my apartment. Do you smell

something when you return. I usually didn't notice an odor unless I

was away from the apartment for about 4 or 5 hours. Do you feel

better when the ac if off? You really have to be a detective. I had

never heard of mold illness back nine years ago. I could just tell

that I was very ill one spring. I was okay in the winter, then in

the spring again the same thing happened. So I started looking around

to see if I could detect anything. I finally had the Health

Department come and they found the mold. But that was in a house in

the basement, and I think you have to see some mold before they come

and they don't really do anything but they did find the mold for

me. You would think you could see some water stains, brown spots or

something somewhere if it is mold--but not necessarily.

>

> Thanks so much for the responses, I have lots more questions!

thank you everyone.

>

> Maybe sheetrock is the wrong word for what the walls are made out

of. It's more like a solid cement wall with no hollow space. I'll

ask my husband what it's called, maybe he will know.

>

> I really appreciate what you are saying but I don't think we will

be able to leave right away unfortunately because we just renewed a

two-year lease two months ago and we have no cash on hand for a

deposit somewhere else. Plus I don't want to just up and leave

without knowing what is going on -- what if it is my cat that is

causing the problems or the ammonia from his urine or something else

like a product we are using or something that we own that we would

take with us? We might be able to move into another apartment in

another area of our complex -- I just don't know if that will help or

not.

>

> In terms of an air conditioner, how would I find if there is mold

in my air conditioner and what do I do if there is? Do I throw it

out and buy another one? Can it be serviced?

>

> I will look into the Texas Tech tests, thank you for that

referral. I looked on their web site and it is a bit confusing to a

newbie. I don't know what mycotoxin testing is. Is that a blood

test? Can my doctor order that test as well? I have a pretty

progressive doctor who is an integrative medicine specialist. Is the

spore trap or the tape test better? I am not clear if it is $25.00

per tape lift or how you do it. I don't even know where I would take

samples since we can't really see anything to take samples of.

>

> I am taking ALA and N-acetylcystine. They are part of the

UltraInflamX formulation. That is an amazing powder that I have found

so helpful in the past and it will probably help with this current

situation as well, but now that it seems to me there is something

here bothering me I want to eliminate that rather than just treating

the symptoms. How can I tell whether it is an indoor or outdoor

allergen?

>

> Sorry for so many questions. Thanks for everything

>

> Lori

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry for my endless questions (

When mixing up MMS to use as a skin spray (activated, then mixed into water as per Tom's directions), do I need to just mix up what is to be used immediately or does it keep? How long does it keep for?

Carole in OzEideann & Fionn (Tristania GSDs)carole@...www.berigorafarm.com.au

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4580 (20091106) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Hello Carole,

I end up using mine up in a couple of weeks, but I believe it will keep for

about 8 weeks.

Tom

--- In , " Carole " <carole@...>

wrote:

>

> Sorry for my endless questions (

>

> When mixing up MMS to use as a skin spray (activated, then mixed into water as

per Tom's directions), do I need to just mix up what is to be used immediately

or does it keep? How long does it keep for?

>

> Carole in Oz

> Eideann & Fionn (Tristania GSDs)

> carole@...

> www.berigorafarm.com.au

>

>

>

> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature

database 4580 (20091106) __________

>

> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

>

> http://www.eset.com

>

[Guest guest]

Wow 8 weeks, totally different than the writings I have followed. I beleive for

my skin lesions and lyme I would want to use the writings and be more aggressive

with 28% solution and maximum of 3 days for an old solution.

http://jimhumble.biz/biz-skin.htm

THE FORMULA: I take an empty 2 ounce spray bottle and add 20 drops of MMS and

100 drops of 10% citric acid solution (you could use lemon juice filtered

through a coffee filter). I wait the customary 3 minutes and then fill the

bottle with water. (Could be distilled water, but then any clean water would

do). This bottle of MMS will stay activated for about 3 days. That's because of

the extra strong mixture.

>

>

> Hello Carole,

>

> I end up using mine up in a couple of weeks, but I believe it will keep for

about 8 weeks.

>

> Tom

>

>

> --- In , " Carole " <carole@>

wrote:

> >

> > Sorry for my endless questions (

> >

> > When mixing up MMS to use as a skin spray (activated, then mixed into water

as per Tom's directions), do I need to just mix up what is to be used

immediately or does it keep? How long does it keep for?

> >

> > Carole in Oz

> > Eideann & Fionn (Tristania GSDs)

> > carole@

> > www.berigorafarm.com.au

> >

> >

> >

> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature

database 4580 (20091106) __________

> >

> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

> >

> > http://www.eset.com

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Healinghope,

I may agree with Jim Humble on that one. If you mix using the ratios he

recommends, it probably will only last a few days. The ratio he uses results in

a solution with lots of impurities. These impurities weaken the effectiveness

of the solution.

Industry has done a lot of testing on this and offers sanitizers with documented

results showing pathogen kill success over a wide range of pathogens. They use

a ratio that is effective, and allows for longer storage times.

I mix up 500 ml at a time and end up using it in 2 - 3 weeks. I have never run

a test to verify the 8 week storage time, but I should do that. I have tested

the general disinfectant solution after 3 weeks and it is still going strong. I

have some activated solutions that I am experimenting with that are still

working as designed after 6 months on the shelf. While this is a non typical

activation, it does demonstrate that these solutions can remain viable for long

periods of time.

On the other hand, if you take any of the activated solutions and put them in

sunlight, they will be neutralized in less than an hour.

When applying an oxidizer to your skin, it is a good idea to pay attention to

the PH of the solution. These chlorous acid solutions come in at around PH 3

and that may be low enough to cause skin irritation. When treating lesions, I

buffer the chlorous acid to a PH of 5 and that seems to eliminate skin

sensitivity. Better yet, dissolve some chlorine dioxide in water and it will

have a neutral PH and no impurities.

Tom

--- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@...>

wrote:

>

> Wow 8 weeks, totally different than the writings I have followed. I beleive

for

> my skin lesions and lyme I would want to use the writings and be more

aggressive

> with 28% solution and maximum of 3 days for an old solution.

> http://jimhumble.biz/biz-skin.htm

> THE FORMULA: I take an empty 2 ounce spray bottle and add 20 drops of MMS and

> 100 drops of 10% citric acid solution (you could use lemon juice filtered

> through a coffee filter). I wait the customary 3 minutes and then fill the

> bottle with water. (Could be distilled water, but then any clean water would

> do). This bottle of MMS will stay activated for about 3 days. That's because

of

> the extra strong mixture.

[Guest guest]

Tom When activated sodium chlorite or chlorine dioxide is exposed to the sun is

it inactivated or chemically changed?

I know when hypochlorous acid or mms2 is exposed to sunlight the reaction is

such.

In the presence of sunlight, hypochlorous acid decomposes into hydrochloric acid

and oxygen.

>

>

> Hello Healinghope,

>

> I may agree with Jim Humble on that one. If you mix using the ratios he

recommends, it probably will only last a few days. The ratio he uses results in

a solution with lots of impurities. These impurities weaken the effectiveness

of the solution.

>

> Industry has done a lot of testing on this and offers sanitizers with

documented results showing pathogen kill success over a wide range of pathogens.

They use a ratio that is effective, and allows for longer storage times.

>

> I mix up 500 ml at a time and end up using it in 2 - 3 weeks. I have never

run a test to verify the 8 week storage time, but I should do that. I have

tested the general disinfectant solution after 3 weeks and it is still going

strong. I have some activated solutions that I am experimenting with that are

still working as designed after 6 months on the shelf. While this is a non

typical activation, it does demonstrate that these solutions can remain viable

for long periods of time.

>

> On the other hand, if you take any of the activated solutions and put them in

sunlight, they will be neutralized in less than an hour.

>

> When applying an oxidizer to your skin, it is a good idea to pay attention to

the PH of the solution. These chlorous acid solutions come in at around PH 3

and that may be low enough to cause skin irritation. When treating lesions, I

buffer the chlorous acid to a PH of 5 and that seems to eliminate skin

sensitivity. Better yet, dissolve some chlorine dioxide in water and it will

have a neutral PH and no impurities.

>

> Tom

>

>

>

> --- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@>

wrote:

> >

> > Wow 8 weeks, totally different than the writings I have followed. I beleive

for

> > my skin lesions and lyme I would want to use the writings and be more

aggressive

> > with 28% solution and maximum of 3 days for an old solution.

> > http://jimhumble.biz/biz-skin.htm

> > THE FORMULA: I take an empty 2 ounce spray bottle and add 20 drops of MMS

and

> > 100 drops of 10% citric acid solution (you could use lemon juice filtered

> > through a coffee filter). I wait the customary 3 minutes and then fill the

> > bottle with water. (Could be distilled water, but then any clean water would

> > do). This bottle of MMS will stay activated for about 3 days. That's because

of

> > the extra strong mixture.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Healinghope,

When sodium chlorite is activated it forms chlorous acid. The chlorous acid

tries to maintain the balance of available chlorine dioxide and free chlorine

dioxide that occurred during activation. As the free chlorine dioxide is used

up the reaction continues to form more free chlorine dioxide, until all of the

available chlorine dioxide is depleted.

In a body chlorine dioxide only exists for a few seconds to maybe minutes. It

quickly breaks down to mostly chlorite and some chlorate and chloride. This

puts the chlorous acid in a position that is unstable as it is constantly trying

to break down to get the balance of available and free chlorine dioxide

balanced. Outside the body this reaction takes place over a variable amount of

time depending on the load placed upon the free chlorine dioxide. This reaction

has not been studied inside the body.

When chlorous acid and hypochlorous acid are exposed to UV light, they break

down and release chlorine gas. The chlorine gas reacts with hydrogen to form

hydrochloric acid and it also reacts with other elements in the air forming

other compounds. When chlorine dioxide is exposed to UV light, it breaks down

to chlorine gas which then reacts with hydrogen to form hydrochloric acid and

other compounds. There is also oxygen released in these reactions.

The bottom line is that these compounds are " used up " through chemical reactions

in which UV light acts as a catalyst.

Tom

--- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@...>

wrote:

>

> Tom When activated sodium chlorite or chlorine dioxide is exposed to the sun

is it inactivated or chemically changed?

> I know when hypochlorous acid or mms2 is exposed to sunlight the reaction is

such.

> In the presence of sunlight, hypochlorous acid decomposes into hydrochloric

acid and oxygen.

>